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Hiro_Apropos

CV vs Submarines

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Seems to be little point being a CV against submarines. The only thing that I have found that can hit them is the bombs from the british line, the bombs from the two other lines, the submarine is just to hard to see and drop on. Fighters are worse, as the sub is smaller than the reticle we get, far to small a surface area to see, and the sighting distance is abysmal for us to counter.

Just left a game where I was left against 3 subs. They just capped, sailing slow, diving when fighters came to close, and pop right back up. Nothing at all I can do about it either.

So if CVs are going to be in games  with submarines, something needs to change. A larger wake, something. Or we can just figure that CVs against subs we just give up and call it a loss.

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45 minutes ago, Hiro_Apropos said:

Seems to be little point being a CV against submarines. The only thing that I have found that can hit them is the bombs from the british line, the bombs from the two other lines, the submarine is just to hard to see and drop on. Fighters are worse, as the sub is smaller than the reticle we get, far to small a surface area to see, and the sighting distance is abysmal for us to counter.

Just left a game where I was left against 3 subs. They just capped, sailing slow, diving when fighters came to close, and pop right back up. Nothing at all I can do about it either.

So if CVs are going to be in games  with submarines, something needs to change. A larger wake, something. Or we can just figure that CVs against subs we just give up and call it a loss.

While the entire mode can go to hell as far as I’m concerned; what you do against a sub in a cap is just FIND it. Drop your fighter to spot it. Force it to dive or be spotted and attacked, and you’ll reset the cap. (They have to be surfaced to cap.)

Now if the sub is directly targeting you; yeah, you’re screwed.

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Oh this is rich a CV player complaining about a ship that it has little to no counterplay against

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4 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

While the entire mode can go to hell as far as I’m concerned; what you do against a sub in a cap is just FIND it. Drop your fighter to spot it. Force it to dive or be spotted and attacked, and you’ll reset the cap. (They have to be surfaced to cap.)

Now if the sub is directly targeting you; yeah, you’re screwed.

There's actually nothing inherently wrong with CVs or subs in WoWs.  The problem is that both require teamplay for counterplay, but WoWs doesn't reward teamplay.  In fact, its reward system actually incentivizes selfishness.

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If you end dd vs cv as the last two ship afloat, the dd can try to hunt the cv and viceversa, while in the sub mode there's no way to hunt the sub unless he just go afk on top of the water...wg should implement some dept charge loaded planes or at least the possiblity to drop something to further enhance rockets and bombs...otherwise its almost impossible to hit them

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16 minutes ago, Nabucodonosor21 said:

If you end dd vs cv as the last two ship afloat, the dd can try to hunt the cv and viceversa, while in the sub mode there's no way to hunt the sub unless he just go afk on top of the water...wg should implement some dept charge loaded planes or at least the possiblity to drop something to further enhance rockets and bombs...otherwise its almost impossible to hit them

There are several (now weeks & months old) forum posts suggesting ASW capabilities for CVs (select a depth-charge in place of a bomb or torpedo, I suppose) and as catapult consumables for ships that mount a catapult plane.

CV's can do damage to a submarine, provided the submarine is close enough to the surface or is surfaced.
Detection "by air" radius for submarines is often smaller than for DD's.

CV's, like Battleships, can use speed & maneuver to out-run submerged submarines (and surfaced ones, in many cases).  And capturing areas can be done by CV's, to win on points. 
Subs must surface/periscope-depth to capture/contest an area.  At such times, a submarine can be detected by air or by ship and be targeted by planes or secondary battery guns of a CV.

The CV's job still includes sinking opposing ships to protect your team's ships.   And in that role there are still plenty of targets available.

Edited by Wolfswetpaws
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7 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

There are several (now weeks & months old) forum posts suggesting ASW capabilities for CVs (select a depth-charge in place of a bomb or torpedo, I suppose) and as catapult consumables for ships that mount a catapult plane.

CV's can do damage to a submarine, provided the submarine is close enough to the surface or is surfaced.
Detection "by air" radius for submarines is often smaller than for DD's.

CV's, like Battleships, can use speed & maneuver to out-run submerged submarines (and surfaced ones, in many cases).  And capturing areas can be done by CV's, to win on points. 
Subs must surface/periscope-depth to capture/contest an area.  At such times, a submarine can be detected by air or by ship and be targeted by planes or secondary battery guns of a CV.

The CV's job still includes sinking opposing ships to protect your team's ships.   And in that role there are still plenty of targets available.

I know cv can deal damage to submarines, but if the sub just stay at deep and there's no dd or cl left to use depth charge, theres no way to counterplay that. Rockets and bombs didnt reach her, neither torpedo bombers. If the enemy team is winning by points its over, since you cant do nothing except stay over him and wait if for some reason the sub decide to surface

edit: also its not so easy to dodge torpedos in a bb, dont forget they can be guided unlike the dds ones who will go forever in straightline

Edited by Nabucodonosor21

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3 hours ago, Nabucodonosor21 said:

I know cv can deal damage to submarines, but if the sub just stay at deep and there's no dd or cl left to use depth charge, theres no way to counterplay that.

The "counter-play" is to sink anything that threatens your ASW ships and any targets of opportunity.

Teamwork is the key, in my opinion, in Submarine-battle-mode.  Keep your team-mates alive and sink the opposition's ships.

Maneuvers, while not as fast as a DD, are possible with big ships.  If you are adept at reading situations, you'll get a feel for when to "turn this way, now" to avoid surface-launched torps and watch them harmlessly swim by several seconds later.

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4 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

There are several (now weeks & months old) forum posts suggesting ASW capabilities for CVs (select a depth-charge in place of a bomb or torpedo, I suppose) and as catapult consumables for ships that mount a catapult plane.

CV's can do damage to a submarine, provided the submarine is close enough to the surface or is surfaced.
Detection "by air" radius for submarines is often smaller than for DD's.

CV's, like Battleships, can use speed & maneuver to out-run submerged submarines (and surfaced ones, in many cases).  And capturing areas can be done by CV's, to win on points. 
Subs must surface/periscope-depth to capture/contest an area.  At such times, a submarine can be detected by air or by ship and be targeted by planes or secondary battery guns of a CV.

The CV's job still includes sinking opposing ships to protect your team's ships.   And in that role there are still plenty of targets available.

This presumes that people remember there are other ways to win than by killing all the opposing ships.  The problem is that a lot don't apparently.  The number of times I've seen teams almost win on points just to throw it away by chasing after the last enemy ship or 2 and going after them piecemeal.

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10 hours ago, JAKeller said:

This presumes that people remember there are other ways to win than by killing all the opposing ships.  The problem is that a lot don't apparently.  The number of times I've seen teams almost win on points just to throw it away by chasing after the last enemy ship or 2 and going after them piecemeal.

That does happen, on occasion.  One such occasion being last night while I was trying to capture the opposition's base, a team-mate left the capture circle to sail towards a red ship.  I was in a Hatsuharu and they were in a Dallas.

One of the variables in WOWs (and other on-line games) is that people aren't always interested in the same goals (even if they are spelled out in the match's mission requirements).  What *amuses* or gives satisfaction to people varies.

Welcome to on-line gaming, eh?  :-)

Edited by Wolfswetpaws

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22 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

The "counter-play" is to sink anything that threatens your ASW ships and any targets of opportunity.

Teamwork is the key, in my opinion, in Submarine-battle-mode.  Keep your team-mates alive and sink the opposition's ships.

Maneuvers, while not as fast as a DD, are possible with big ships.  If you are adept at reading situations, you'll get a feel for when to "turn this way, now" to avoid surface-launched torps and watch them harmlessly swim by several seconds later.

theres no teamwork because i cant do anything to help. I only go for the surface ships with the cv, if they outsmart my dds an cls and kill them that mean i have to accept defeat? because once they are dead, there's no way for me to damage subs

Also, cv played a great role in ASW in real life too...its kinda nonsense they dont have any kind of asw, not even depth charges from the cv itself so i can at least risk the ship but sunk the ss

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2 hours ago, Nabucodonosor21 said:

theres no teamwork because i cant do anything to help. I only go for the surface ships with the cv, if they outsmart my dds an cls and kill them that mean i have to accept defeat? because once they are dead, there's no way for me to damage subs

Also, cv played a great role in ASW in real life too...its kinda nonsense they dont have any kind of asw, not even depth charges from the cv itself so i can at least risk the ship but sunk the ss

The problem with this logic is the assumption that one must kill the subs to win the match.  Remember that subs cannot (i.e. CANNOT) take a cap while submerged.  They have to surface to do so, and you can shoot them just fine then.  Also, virtually every ship in-game is faster than a sub is.  So, the logical thing to do if you're alone against a sub and don't feel you can kill it, is to run and take caps knowing the sub can't keep up.  No, you don't look manly by killing the sub, but you still win.

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52 minutes ago, JAKeller said:

The problem with this logic is the assumption that one must kill the subs to win the match.  Remember that subs cannot (i.e. CANNOT) take a cap while submerged.  They have to surface to do so, and you can shoot them just fine then.  Also, virtually every ship in-game is faster than a sub is.  So, the logical thing to do if you're alone against a sub and don't feel you can kill it, is to run and take caps knowing the sub can't keep up.  No, you don't look manly by killing the sub, but you still win.

Im losing 750 to 450 in point, 2 min left on timer, ss with 132 hp, only cv vs ss...should i just wait there for the defeat? do you read what i wrote? i never say what you say about hunting ss to win i say i cant do anything to themif we are out of dds ands cls but ok, it doesnt look like it matter to you...

Edited by Nabucodonosor21
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37 minutes ago, Nabucodonosor21 said:

Im losing 750 to 450 in point, 2 min left on timer, ss with 132 hp, only cv vs ss...should i just wait there for the defeat? do you read what i wrote? i never say what you say about hunting ss to win i say i cant do anything to themif we are out of dds ands cls but ok, it doesnt look like it matter to you...

By playing well enough, early enough in the match, the notion is that your teams's ASW assets survive and are able to sink enemy submarines.

So a CV's job involves sinking everything on the surface that threatens your team's ASW ships/submarines.  I imagine you can comfortably hit BB's & Cruisers & DD's by now.

Sinking submarines is only a "spare time" or "target of opportunity" option for a CV.
Finding and hitting a Submarine is possible, but is challenging and time-consuming.  So your time may be better spent on other targets.

Not everyone has "got gud" with their submarines, yet.  So, sometimes the matchmaking will yield teams that get steamrolled.  Accept it.  Learn from it.  And just do better next game.  :-)

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On 5/30/2020 at 11:19 AM, Hiro_Apropos said:

Seems to be little point being a CV against submarines. The only thing that I have found that can hit them is the bombs from the british line, the bombs from the two other lines, the submarine is just to hard to see and drop on. Fighters are worse, as the sub is smaller than the reticle we get, far to small a surface area to see, and the sighting distance is abysmal for us to counter.

Just left a game where I was left against 3 subs. They just capped, sailing slow, diving when fighters came to close, and pop right back up. Nothing at all I can do about it either.

So if CVs are going to be in games  with submarines, something needs to change. A larger wake, something. Or we can just figure that CVs against subs we just give up and call it a loss.

 

6 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

By playing well enough, early enough in the match, the notion is that your teams's ASW assets survive and are able to sink enemy submarines.

So a CV's job involves sinking everything on the surface that threatens your team's ASW ships/submarines.  I imagine you can comfortably hit BB's & Cruisers & DD's by now.

Sinking submarines is only a "spare time" or "target of opportunity" option for a CV.
Finding and hitting a Submarine is possible, but is challenging and time-consuming.  So your time may be better spent on other targets.

Not everyone has "got gud" with their submarines, yet.  So, sometimes the matchmaking will yield teams that get steamrolled.  Accept it.  Learn from it.  And just do better next game.  :-)

Did you even read the problem why Apropos post this? or you just read "cvs cant do x/y/z" and enter to increase the post count? Ok, yeah i will focus the surface ships...i dont expect anything else from you

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