Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
The_Potato_Smasher

World of Warships Proposal: U.S.S Hornet

11 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

727
[PRVTR]
Members
1,141 posts
6,396 battles

World of Warships Proposal: U.S.S Hornet

USS Hornet (CV-8) - Wikipedia

Dolittle would be proud of this ship in the game ( if his ghost still walks around )

 

What it is: The original WWII Hornet. You know, the Yorktown class that Enterprise belongs to? Yeah, that one, not the later Essex-class carrier, making it’s appearance ( once again ) as a Tier VIII Premium CV to replace the Enterprise in the shop, taking it’s place alongside Indomitable as one of the only carriers in the game to not carry torpedo bombers, instead carrying big-as-hell and tanky-as-all-hell North American Aviation B-25 Mitchell medium bombers as it’s air wing and primary striking power. The Hornet will also follow in a similar vein to the upcoming F.D.Roosevelt premium Tier X Carrier, emphasizing high alpha damage and plane survivability over normal carriers.

 

Why it matters: It has been just over a month since the 78th anniversary of the famed Doolittle raid launched from the decks of the Happy Hornet, not to mention that the last surviving member of the raid, Colonel Richard Cole, passed in April at the age of 103. Then there was the raid itself. While it did not cause much in the way of material damage to the Japanese war effort, it caused major psychological effects to the Japanese forces and commanders, who had not previously believed that long range strikes against the Japanese homeland were possible. This ended up leading to the Battle of Midway, and eventually, ended with the defeat and surrender of Japan aboard the Missouri in 1945. I believe that the raid should be commemorated, not with just some fancy reskin of the Enterprise to make her look like a Hornet, but actually introduce the Hornet into the game, along with her own special James.H.Doolittle commander with his own special talents that would synchronize well with the Hornet. So then, let’s dive right in ( see what I did there?)

 

 


Armor

  • HP Pool: 47,200
  • Torpedo Reduction:28%
  • Plating: 19mm
  • Belt Armor: 102mm
  • Deck armor: 25mm
  • Bulkheads: 102mm
  • Fire Duration: 5.0 seconds
  • Flooding Duration: 30.0 seconds

Oddly enough, the Hornet has a smaller HP pool than her sister ship Enterprise, at 47,200 versus 51,400 for the Grey Ghost. This of course, comes via Frosty’s HP pool formula for aircraft carriers, which naturally leads me to believe that Enterprise had her HP pool artificially boosted. Of course, that hardly matters when you consider the fact that Hornet also has a 25mm armored flight deck, as opposed to the flight deck of the Enterprise, which is a piddly 21mm. This will allow the Hornet to shatter most destroyer-caliber HE shells ( with the exception of the ducky-botes and the upcoming Z-35 ), and ricochet 356mm caliber guns or smaller. But that’s about it. Other than those two things, the Hornet is identical to her sister ship.


Aviation Group

Maximum Number of Aircraft on Deck: 28

Rocket Attack Aircraft: F4U-1D Corsair Tiny Tim

  • Number of Squadrons: 1
  • Number of Aircraft of Deck: 12 
  • Size of Squadron: 9
  • Aircraft Restoration Time: 66 seconds
  • Hitpoints: 1,460
  • Detection Range: 10.00km 
  • Cruise Speed: 169 kts
  • Maximum Speed: 209 kts
  • Engine Boost: Standard
  • Number of Aircraft in an attacking flight: 3
  • Armament Payload: Tiny Tim ( 2 rockets per strike, 5,400 Alpha, 68mm penetration, 33% fire chance )
  • Aiming Reticle Shape: Vertical ellipse
  • Attack Pattern: Horizontal diving approach

 

Bomber Aircraft: B-25B Mitchell

  • Number of Squadrons: 1
  • Number of Aircraft on Deck: 16 
  • Size of Squadron: 8 Aircraft
  • Aircraft Restoration Time: 151 seconds
  • Hitpoints: 3,700
  • Detection Range: 12.00km
  • Cruise Speed: 131 kts
  • Maximum Speed: 171 kts
  • Engine Boost: Standard
  • Attack Recharge: 10 seconds
  • Number of Aircraft in an attacking flight: 2
  • Armament Payload : AN-M65 ( 3 bombs per aircraft, 9,200 Alpha, 53mm penetration, 52.0% fire chance ) 
  • Aiming Reticle Shape: Semi-Ellipse
  • Attack Pattern: Ultra-High Altitude Horizontal Run

CAP Fighters: F4U-1D Corsair

  • Number of Fighters per squadron: 4
  • Number of Consumables: 4

Hornet has a rather interesting aircraft loadout compared to her sister ship. Her rocket attack aircraft are the same as that of the upgraded Lexington with the 11.95-inch Tiny Tim rockets, as opposed to the FFAR rockets that the Enterprise carries, to provide some differentiation and add to the high-alpha flavor of the ship in general. Then there are the Mitchell bombers. The values for these aircraft are extrapolated based upon the upcoming TB2D Skypirate aircraft featured on the F.D.Roosevelt, and, seeing that they share similar dimensions and gross takeoff weight, I gave the B-25 Mitchell similar statistics to the Skypirate. However, the real difference, and perhaps the most limiting, is the fact that the Hornet does not carry any torpedo bombers, turning her into a sort of American version of the Indomitable. The attack pattern is also unique, following a very high altitude horizontal bombing pattern from nearly double the height of the Indomitable’s bombers, drastically slowing down bomb speed and giving destroyers and other light vessels some counterplay against the bombers. Of course, there are downsides to the bombers themselves, such as the large detection range ( given their size ) and the long attack preparation time of over 10 seconds. Then again, balance is balance.

 


Auxiliary Armament and AA Defenses

Secondary Armament: 8 x 1 127mm/38 Mk24

  • HE Shell: 1,800 Alpha, 21mm penetration, 5.0% fire chance
  • Reload Time: 6.00 seconds
  • Shell velocity: 792 m/s
  • Range: 4.5km
  • Sigma: 1.0 
  • Dispersion: USN Carrier

AA Defenses

Long Range AA: 8 x 1 127mm/38 Mk24

  • Number of Explosions: 3 + 1
  • Damage per Explosion: 1,470
  • Range: 5.8km
  • Aura DPS: 77.0

Short Range AA: 16 x 2 20mm Oerlikion + 4 x 4 28mm/75 "Chicago Piano"

  • Range: 2.4km
  • Aura DPS: 263

 

Hornet’s AA is NOT Enterprise’s AA. Hornet, having sunk at the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands, never received the Bofors upgrade package that the Grey Ghost did in 1943, though she did receive an Oerlikon upgrade package that greatly boosts her short range AA in the game. Don’t expect it to be effective however, since Short Range AA is useless against the large majority of anti-CV air raids, which tend to be torpedo bombers. Thankfully, she does have Lexington's fighter squadrons, which sort of boosts her self defense, but is otherwise useless.


Maneuverability

  • Top Speed: 32.5 knots
  • Turning Radius: 1,070 meters
  • Rudder Shift Time: 13.1 seconds

No surprises here. Hornet uses the same maneuverability parameters as the Enterprise ( which means they still suck ). I was considering gimping it slightly to make it line up with the extra weight, but that would be pushing it.


Concealment

Surface Detection Range: 14.14 kilometers

Aerial Detection Range: 11.02 kilometers

Smoke Firing Penalty: 0.00 kilometers

Once again, no surprises here. Hornet is still the same as the Enterprise, though her CXAM-1 radar mount wasn’t ever fully enclosed. That’s a small quibble, which probably has nothing to do with detection whatsoever. 


Build, Consumables, and Modules

Ship Consumables

  • Damage Control Party ( 60 second action time, 85.5 second cooldown )
  • CAP Fighter ( 600 second action time, 40 second cooldown, 4 charges )
  •  

Aircraft Consumables

Attack Aircraft

  • Engine Boost ( Standard )
  • CAP Fighter Squadron ( Standard )

Bomber Aircraft

  • Engine Boost ( Standard )
  • CAP Fighter Squadron ( Standard )

 

Modules

  • Slot 1: Air Groups Modification 1
  • Slot 2: Aircraft Engines Modification 1
  • Slot 3: Attack Aircraft Modification 1
  • Slot 4: Bombers Modification 2
  • Slot 5: Concealment Systems Modification 1

Commander Skills

  • Air Supremacy ( 1 point )
  • Improved Engines ( 2 points )
  • Aircraft Armour ( 3 points )
  • Concealment Expert ( 4 points )
  • Adrenaline Rush ( 2 points )
  • Survivability Expert ( 3 points )
  • Sight Stabilization ( 4 points )

Special Commander: James H.Doolittle

Improved Commander Skills

  • Improved Air Supremacy ( -7.5% to Aircraft Restoration )

  • Improved Aircraft Armor ( 11% to damage resistance )

Talents

  • First Strike: Upon earning the First Blood achievement, the ship receives a 2.5% Bonus to reload speed of all armaments and a 5% bonus to AA defenses. Carriers receive a 7.5% decrease in aircraft servicing time

  • Lightning Raider ( only works for carriers ): Upon earning the Double Strike, aircraft receive a 10% boost to speed for the remainder of the battle. Can be activated up to three times per battle. 

 


Pricing and Marketing

Hornet would be priced around the same as her sister ship, the Enterprise, when she was still on sale. She’d also have an alternate camo that would depict her during the Doolittle Raid, and would give her the same bonuses that the Anshan’s premium camo would give.

 


Welp, that’s all I got for you folks today. If you have any questions, comments, or salt, do leave them in the comments below

 

Peace!

 

:SerB:

 

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula
  • Cool 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,836
[PQUOD]
[PQUOD]
Members
5,079 posts
19,484 battles

Very nice proposal. I support your submission for the Hornet to be added. Probably would be easier as a premium. I’d support either CV8 or CV12

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3
[POTHS]
Members
12 posts
17,167 battles

yeah makes sense to rax

mine was just a stab at the air wings involved and ship speed

and yeah a campaign for the commander similar to the european commander to get doolittle otherwise i'd expect a higher price point for both the ship AND captain

but yeah the only difference i'd argue is the B25B's had 2000 lbs (at least i beleive thats what they got) and at 250lbs game balance munition sizing 8 bombs per plane which for a T8 is quite normal compared with implacables bombing runs also improved aircraft armour skill is 11.5% , pretty sure wargaming keeps improved skillsets the same across the board it exists on the british unique commander Andrew Cunningham

otherwise think we're basically in total agreement although having no torps like indomitable wont be popular at all, large reason no one uses her, litterally been in games where people explain that because she doesn't have torps shes no real threat to armoured cruisers, large turret protecting surface area cruisers and battleships but thats indomitables issue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
20 posts
13,486 battles

 

 Just passing through but, as an alternative, maybe give the B-25s a skip bombing mechanic? This would be low altitude approach but the bomb release would be against the sides of the ship with a possible additional strike a little higher.
 

Edit: Here's a fairly informative link

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
101
[THF41]
Members
416 posts
6,851 battles
On 8/6/2020 at 1:58 PM, Kuripi said:

 

 Just passing through but, as an alternative, maybe give the B-25s a skip bombing mechanic? This would be low altitude approach but the bomb release would be against the sides of the ship with a possible additional strike a little higher.
 

Edit: Here's a fairly informative link

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2020/03/13/wwii-pioneers-of-skip-bombing/

Or just give the B-25's the same bombing mechanic as the UK Carriers have (carpet bombing) which makes more sense.

Either way, I support adding Hornet in-game at Tier 8 with B-25's in her air group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
767
[NUWES]
Members
3,431 posts
12,830 battles
5 hours ago, LordHood2552 said:

Or just give the B-25's the same bombing mechanic as the UK Carriers have (carpet bombing) which makes more sense.

Either way, I support adding Hornet in-game at Tier 8 with B-25's in her air group.

^I've been saying this for a while as well. I'm all for it. I would model the B-25s using level bombing and attacking in waves of 1 or 2 tough fast planes with fairly hard-hitting level bombs but a large ellipse possibly with a slow regen. Ideally that would make them most effective against BBs and other CVs and minimally so on DDs barring a lucky hit. Realistically, if it is based on the Doolittle raid the other planes would be downtiered models that Hornet actually had for the raid. Attack planes should be F4F wildcats and TBs would be TBD Devastators. Basically, Ranger's attack planes and TBs. I'd compensate with relatively large groups since they'll be fragile and slow, and possibly with a quicker regen. 

Hopefully the playstyle would be hard but infrequent, hits from the B-25s  on larger ships which hard to replace B-25s, with more frequent attacks from Hornet's other planes which  are substantially weaker but more expendable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
101
[THF41]
Members
416 posts
6,851 battles
4 hours ago, Tzarevitch said:

^I've been saying this for a while as well. I'm all for it. I would model the B-25s using level bombing and attacking in waves of 1 or 2 tough fast planes with fairly hard-hitting level bombs but a large ellipse possibly with a slow regen. Ideally that would make them most effective against BBs and other CVs and minimally so on DDs barring a lucky hit. Realistically, if it is based on the Doolittle raid the other planes would be downtiered models that Hornet actually had for the raid. Attack planes should be F4F wildcats and TBs would be TBD Devastators. Basically, Ranger's attack planes and TBs. I'd compensate with relatively large groups since they'll be fragile and slow, and possibly with a quicker regen. 

Hopefully the playstyle would be hard but infrequent, hits from the B-25s  on larger ships which hard to replace B-25s, with more frequent attacks from Hornet's other planes which  are substantially weaker but more expendable. 

Makes sense. Basically that way it makes Hornet like a Tier 8 US Ark Royal (and period).

Though the OP was also onto something for Hornet's air group layout. Remove the TP's entirely and just go with the Attack Planes (Wildcats though as we talked about) and B-25's with level / carpet bombing. Then the US gets a Tier 8 CV similar to Indomitable. Maybe also give an option to choose between HE and AP Bombs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
767
[NUWES]
Members
3,431 posts
12,830 battles
16 hours ago, LordHood2552 said:

Makes sense. Basically that way it makes Hornet like a Tier 8 US Ark Royal (and period).

Though the OP was also onto something for Hornet's air group layout. Remove the TP's entirely and just go with the Attack Planes (Wildcats though as we talked about) and B-25's with level / carpet bombing. Then the US gets a Tier 8 CV similar to Indomitable. Maybe also give an option to choose between HE and AP Bombs.

The big reason I was suggesting keeping the TBs is not many people like Indom's boring gameplay. At least with downtiered attack and TBs she would have something else to use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
380
Members
456 posts
4,325 battles

Getting Hornet with the B25s would be quite fun. Just a couple of things I could see at a glance:

1. The only HP formula that isn't particularly accurate is the aircraft carrier one (because the hitpoint pools & displacement don't have a very good correlation thanks to WG fudging things up)

2. The AA would be quite a bit worse than what you've estimated. The 28mm/75s are considered to be part of the light AA suite. The 4x4 28mm/75s would give you 28dps@2.4km and the 16x2 20mm/70 would give you 235dps@2km. Since the 28mm/75s are considered to be part of the short-range aura, it'd have the effect of boosting the 20mm/70s to reach up to 2.4km with a final AA effect of 263dps@2.4km, which is well below the 121dps@3.5km + 367dps@2km that you had estimated.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
727
[PRVTR]
Members
1,141 posts
6,396 battles
5 minutes ago, Fr05ty said:

Getting Hornet with the B25s would be quite fun. Just a couple of things I could see at a glance:

1. The only HP formula that isn't particularly accurate is the aircraft carrier one (because the hitpoint pools & displacement don't have a very good correlation thanks to WG fudging things up)

2. The AA would be quite a bit worse than what you've estimated. The 28mm/75s are considered to be part of the light AA suite. The 4x4 28mm/75s would give you 28dps@2.4km and the 16x2 20mm/70 would give you 235dps@2km. Since the 28mm/75s are considered to be part of the short-range aura, it'd have the effect of boosting the 20mm/70s to reach up to 2.4km with a final AA effect of 263dps@2.4km, which is well below the 121dps@3.5km + 367dps@2km that you had estimated.

I thought the 28mm AA guns were considered Medium range weapons. Ah well, I'll fix it.

( I was working on the Shinano when you posted )

-Shrayes

Edit: Fixed. Thanks Frosty.

Also, it looks like ShipComrade is down, since I can't access your article of the Italian Battleships

Edited by Shrayes_Bhagavatula

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
380
Members
456 posts
4,325 battles
3 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

I thought the 28mm AA guns were considered Medium range weapons. Ah well, I'll fix it.

( I was working on the Shinano when you posted )

-Shrayes

Edit: Fixed. Thanks Frosty.

Also, it looks like ShipComrade is down, since I can't access your article of the Italian Battleships

Yep, I've already asked when it's coming back, but no word yet.

For reference, the AA classification goes as such:

  • 30mm and smaller guns are considered short range weapons
  • 30.1mm to 85mm are considered medium range weapons (which is the reason the 85mm from the Kiev is mid-ranged)
  • 85mm+ are long range weapons

I do love the looks of the 28mm/75s though, wish they were better, but historically they were pretty poor.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×