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___V_E_N_O_M___

ST: Champagne Nerfs

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What do you think? I was hoping this would be a Gascogne 2.0 but instead they have utterly ruined this ship, to the point where I question whether it is even a tier 8 anymore:

  • AP shell penetration increased to the previous value;
  • Number of Hitpoints reduced from 60,900 to 52,600.
  • Main battery reload time increased from 26 to 28.6 s
Edited by ___V_E_N_O_M___
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seems fine to me obviously the intentions are a glass cannon.

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1 minute ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

seems fine to me obviously the intentions are a glass cannon.

How 50k hull and same reload speed as Gascogne? Whats special about it now?

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1 minute ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

How 50k hull and same reload speed as Gascogne? Whats special about it now?

its a tier 8 slava, very accurate 406mm guns

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1 minute ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Dispersion at Max Range:   258 m

 

Hardly a surgical striker

ive seen it in action :)

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4 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

ive seen it in action :)

Does it still have the cruiser armor (was it 30mm all around? )?

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2 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

 

Does it still have the cruiser armor (was it 30mm all around? )?

it has 25mm all over i believe but i know its cruiser armour

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1 minute ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

it has 25mm all over i believe but i know its cruiser armour

that's more the problem than the health pool imo.

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Unless they changed it, only her bow and stern is 25mm (tho both nose and stern are quite huge), the rest is 32mm.

 

I'll wait for some vids but for now, she looks like a very squishy cruiser BB that is restricted to long range fights pretty much. If you dare to push up just a bit and a BB catches you, he'll just destroy you from the nose/stern.

Edited by AlcatrazNC

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1 hour ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Whats special about it now?

It has the best AP pen of any ship currently in the game with large cruiser dispersion and good shell velocity.  

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I know you shouldn't be pushing up in french BBs, but I don't think you shouldn't be pushing up the flanks in a champagne like that now 

as fan of all ships french: this change mildly displeases me, it was good before these changes. but what am I saying im no STr.

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3 minutes ago, yashma said:

It has the best AP pen of any ship currently in the game with large cruiser dispersion and good shell velocity.  

And Champagne can afford to have such low HP, for her ship type at her tier, because of that awesome long range capability... lol. :Smile_teethhappy:

On the hand, Odin's also handicapped with similarly low HP, for her ship type at her tier... and she's expected to brawl, lel. :Smile_smile:

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to derail the topic. Why yes, Champagne does look like an quintessential long range glass cannon... lul. :Smile_teethhappy:

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13 minutes ago, yashma said:

It has the best AP pen of any ship currently in the game with large cruiser dispersion and good shell velocity.  

Dispersion is 258m, large cruisers and BCs have less than 220m dispersion.

Also it secondary suite suggests a close quarters knife fighter, yet it does not have the armour to withstand a close range fight.

I don't understand the ships concept, it lack the armour for close quarters and the guns to be good at long range.

6 x 406mm is not gonna cut it dpm wise now the reload has been nerfed as well!

Edited by ___V_E_N_O_M___

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3 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

And Champagne can afford to have such low HP, for her ship type at her tier, because of that awesome long range capability... lol. :Smile_teethhappy:

On the hand, Odin's also handicapped with similarly low HP, for her ship type at her tier... and she's expected to brawl, lel. :Smile_smile:

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to derail the topic. Why yes, Champagne does look like an quintessential long range glass cannon... lul. :Smile_teethhappy:

Your points are mute, go away

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12 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Your points are mute, go away

Or, they could be moot.  

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5 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

I don't understand the ships concept, it lack the armour for close quarters and the guns to be good at long range.

It's a Tier 8 Slava.  It sits at long range and citadels things.  

 

8 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Dispersion is 258m, large cruisers and BCs have less than 220m dispersion.

The listed dispersion is the value at max range, the Champagne has more range than CBs so naturally the listed dispersion value is worse.   

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I completely forgot Champagne existed in testing.  This was announced back in March.

WG_SPB_WoWs_screenshots_Champagne_1920x1080.thumb.jpg.1e4b4d0dac0b5510ee4f54ad90c3afb6.jpg

I also completely forgot that this is a 406mm armed FR BB.

Also, an official link to the source of the impending changes to Champagne.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/23

AP shell penetration increased to the previous value;
Number of Hitpoints reduced from 60,900 to 52,600.
Main battery reload time increased from 26 to 28.6 s.

Fitting Tool entry for Champagne, but keep in mind those listed changes aren't implemented in Fitting Tool as I type this.  And an identical entry for Richelieu, because she is the tech tree representative for the FR BB Line in Tier VIII.

So one can compare between the two, or whatever other ships a player has in mind.  There's no armor viewer, though with these links.

As far as NAVWEAPS go on those 406mm guns, I see no entry for a French 406mm gun.  So this is already Paper Stuff already.  The gun sizes the FR have actually fielded for BBs ranged from 300mm to 380mm.

 

Biggest differences I found between Champagne and Richelieu:

- Obviously the drastically reduced HP is a big concern.  Lyon in Tier VII has that much HP.

+ With the move from Richelieu 380mm to Champagne's 406mm, there's the natural improvements.  Better damage, etc.  No special AP bounce angles, AP fuse times are normal.  406mm Overmatches more things than 380mm.

+ More accurate than Richelieu.  Similar max gun ranges but the Dispersion is better on Champagne.  She also has 2.0 Sigma while Richelieu is straddled with a mediocre 1.8 Sigma.  Anyone that's played Richelieu-class knows what's up with that.

+/- 49% Fire Chance is very good.

- A bunch of things related to the guns, shells are starting to look good until you realize she only has 6 rifles.

 

I am also curious to know what the old Champagne AP penetration values were compared to the one that is about to be taken away, which is shown in the below artillery chart.  In this game, the FR 380mm+ AP shells I respect for great penetration values.  You can see the FR 380mm AP stands competitively with all these other 406mm AP shells.  Of the listed ships, Champagne's tops them all, even at range.

You can also see Champagne's shells in the list below, have great shell flight time and nice shell arcs.

FM4NMjQ.jpg

 

Were the old, old Champagne AP Pen values worse or better than the above, the one that's about to go away?

 

The reload nerf: Main battery reload time increased from 26 to 28.6 s.

Richelieu 380mm x8 :  30 seconds

North Carolina 406mm x9:  30 seconds

On paper this isn't looking good for Champagne.  On first glance, 28.6 seconds sounds reasonable for 406mm guns while Richelieu has smaller guns at 30 seconds reload, and 406mm armed NC has 30 seconds.  But the key thing to pay attention to is Champagne has only 6 guns.

 

It's kind of "Iffy" to me.  The gunnery, shell performance looks great, but 6 guns and 28.6 seconds reload doesn't.  For losing 8.3k HP I'd be expecting some very heavy compensation in something else.  The pre-ST nerf version seemed decently interesting but post nerf, no way.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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3 hours ago, yashma said:

It has the best AP pen of any ship currently in the game with large cruiser dispersion and good shell velocity.  

So best ship at getting overpens?

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8 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

I don't understand the ship's concept

She's an armoured box for French sailors to die in. "Maman, Maman, je suis enflammé!!" 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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9 hours ago, yashma said:

It's a Tier 8 Slava.  It sits at long range and citadels things.  

 

The listed dispersion is the value at max range, the Champagne has more range than CBs so naturally the listed dispersion value is worse.   

Slava has a dispersion of 216m at 25k??

 

They are not comparable

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2 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Slava has a dispersion of 216m at 25k??

 

They are not comparable

The Champagne is one of the most accurate BBs in the game as it gets CB dispersion with 2.0 sigma, it has great shell arcs, great range and the best AP pen of any ship in the game (slightly worse than Slava, but who knows if she'll ever actually make it into the game).  The Champagne is still WiP and subject to change, but it has plenty of strengths and is still conceptually a Tier 8 version of the Slava.  It's two tiers lower than the Slava, so of course there are going to be differences.  

 

*Also keep in mind the Slava has a unique dispersion curve that gets better at longer ranges, so it's not linearly comparable to the Champagne, and at typical combat ranges ~20km the dispersion will be far more similar.  *The Champagne eventually gets more accurate than the Slava....I just don't know where the exact crossover point is.  

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