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zzzFrostVortexzzz

ST 0.9.5, changes to test ships

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Very pleased to see the FDR getting some tweaks, the ship really needed help, IMO. And the German torpedoes!

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And in other news......Shikashima becomes a secondary-build ship? :Smile_amazed:

Is it just me or is a Yamato-hull the last thing I'd want to brawl in?

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Hope you will look back at Graf Zeppelin when the new CVs are out... she need some love.

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26 minutes ago, Ace_04 said:

And in other news......Shikashima becomes a secondary-build ship? :Smile_amazed:

Is it just me or is a Yamato-hull the last thing I'd want to brawl in?

I think it's just that since part of Shikishima's focus is her insane AA, and that WG would also like to show off the two Harugumos strapped to her side. Obviously a Yamato hull is not for brawling, but her secondaries previously had a range of 7.0 km before the nerf to 6.0 km and now a rebuff to 7.7 km. It's a nice to have, not an incentive to make a secondary build out of her (unless they're also secretly revamping her armor scheme). Shikishima is supposed to be a foil to Yamato, in my opinion, but still a sister. Where Yamato falters, Shikishima shines (AA, secondaries, reload speed), and where Yamato shines, Shikishima falters (fewer guns, worse accuracy). But they're both still Yamatos, so mind the cheek and the citadel. 

 

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Soviet Zara: The purpose of this thing is... to be a T8 Soyuz at T9?

FDR: so it’s main balancing point of its high alpha and stupidly high hit point planes was low speed, and now that has been removed?

German CVs: The fact that AP rockets couldn’t citadel cruisers is probably a good thing

oh and now the trips went from low speed meme machines to high speed meme machines

Shikishima: The last thing I’d want to do with a Yamato hull is get within secondary range of anything, so this does nothing but give clear distinction between potatoes and good players

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I’m interested in squadrons designed to torp DDs, I’ve had some success with other nations torpedoes and found it pretty fun.

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1 hour ago, Gaumut said:

Hope you will look back at Graf Zeppelin when the new CVs are out... she need some love.

Trust me the Graf Zeppelin is far superior to the entire German flattop line. However with the new changes let's see how that goes.

Edited by Starfleet1701
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ok so, whats the deal with the Soyuz clone anyway? i noticed that ship some time ago but dont remember it ever being mentioned in a Dev Blog of being a thing

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Another 52kish HP T8 BB with 25mm bow/stern plating?  Yikes.  You would have to bet on the red team hitting either your deck or belt armor, because otherwise you're exploding violently the first time a BB seriously looks in your direction.

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9 hours ago, tfcas119 said:

German CVs: The fact that AP rockets couldn’t citadel cruisers is probably a good thing

 

Forget citing, they couldn't pen anything other than super structures. I watched the T10 loose a salvo into a perfect broadside of a Zao for zero damage the other day. This change is probably a good thing as otherwise the plane type is completely useless.

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For better or worse, it's completely changed the nature of the German aircraft carriers. 

FDR looks a lot better now, but the changes will probably mean another development cycle and a delay of a patch before her resource and price are announced. *sigh* 

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10 hours ago, landcollector said:

Another 52kish HP T8 BB with 25mm bow/stern plating?  Yikes.  You would have to bet on the red team hitting either your deck or belt armor, because otherwise you're exploding violently the first time a BB seriously looks in your direction.

Except Champagne’s guns now once again have Near Slava pen, and uses Graf Spee’s dispersion curve, so her shells will hit, and they hit hard and fast. The fact she has little health, less heals, and 25mm extremities are her weaknesses, but mean little if she can spend the whole game 20km from the nearest target and still blow it out of existence.

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1 hour ago, tfcas119 said:

Except Champagne’s guns now once again have Near Slava pen, and uses Graf Spee’s dispersion curve, so her shells will hit, and they hit hard and fast. The fact she has little health, less heals, and 25mm extremities are her weaknesses, but mean little if she can spend the whole game 20km from the nearest target and still blow it out of existence.

I expect WG to screw around with the guns some more, so don't count on that to last.  As for the second part, I *hate* sitting in the back sniping at things 20km+ away, so the ship sounds boring/miserable and one note to me.  Pass.

Edited by landcollector

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19 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

Is it just me or is a Yamato-hull the last thing I'd want to brawl in?

It takes a lot of skill and practice to get right, but it can indeed be done, and is darn good fun when you learn to get it right. Luck also plays a notable role, but that arguably goes for everything in this game.

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23 hours ago, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Read more here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/23

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

I have to date played 1806 matches on the EU server in the GRAF ZEPPELIN since version 8.0 was released in February 2019. This gives me a decent insight in the strengths and weaknesses of the Ta 152 C-1 as depicted in WOWS.

 

I react specifically to this part of the development blog:

 

"German carriers became too effective against battleships because they had two types of squadrons which could deal considerable amounts of damage to them. Therefore we decided to change the concept of the German carriers' armament and make each type of squadron effective against a particular class of ships. AP bombs would be best against battleships, AP rockets-against cruisers, and the new torpedoes, due to their increased speed, would become a weapon against destroyers. These torpedoes will be easier to hit cruisers and battleships with, but the relative damage dealt to these ships will not be very high, and the aircraft carrier will lose quite a number of planes during these attacks, thus also losing its main weapon against destroyers as well".

 

My TLDR response:

 

If the German Carriers will be forced to fight Destroyers with fast and slow turning Torpedo Bombers that take a long time and large space to turn they will have low Damage Per Second rates compared to the other Carriers in WOWS which can attack Destroyers with slow nimble small turning radius Rocket armed fighters, making them uncompetitive and as a result sub par. Additionally torpedos can be dodged by a skilled Destroyer Commander, but rockets cannot. Rockets are reliable because they cannot be easily countered/evaded, torpedos are unreliable because they can easily be countered/evaded.

 

My detailed response:

 

While this all sounds fine and nice on paper there are other considerations.

 

For example the speed and turning radius of the aircraft need to be considered here first and foremost. The GZ Ta 152 C-1 in WOWS has a huge turning circle, and the faster it flies the more the turning circle increases in WOWS. When equipped with AP Bombs the GZ Ta 152 C-1 in WOWS can attack a solitary Cruiser/Battleship from any angle and then still turn round and attack that ship two more times that way in a short amount of time. Even though the GZ Ta 152 C-1 has a huge turning circle/radius it can still relatively quickly turn round for a second attack run because it can attack from any angle due to the circular bomb circle.

 

The GZ Ta 152 C-1 armed with a torpedo in WOWS on the other hand needs a lot more time to attack a ship because it first has to turn and setup an approach run to come in from an angle that will have the best chance to hit a ship (90 to 150 degrees / 210 to 270 degrees) and that can fairly easily be countered by the enemy ship by turning towards the Torpeo Bombers which the Ta 152 C-1 in WOWS in particular has difficulty to adjust to because of their great speed and large turning circle/radius. And even worse: all that turning takes time and time lost is valuable Damage Per Second lost for a Carrier and equates to likely losing the match.

 

The faster a ship can turn and the faster a ship is, the more difficult it is to hit with a fast and slow turning Torpedo Bomber, like the GZ Ta 152 C-1 in WOWS,  because the best chance to hit with aerial torpedoes is always from a certain side angle and for all torpedos to hit the target ship needs to foolishly holds it course.

 

If the target ship is commanded by a particularly skilled Commander he can turn in such a way that he at most takes one torpedo hit per three launched by the GZ Ta 152 C-1. A counter to that is to either use the map edge to instantly "bounch and turn" the Ta 152 C-1 off the map edge for a follow up torpedo attack from the other side for a "cross drop", but that is higly situational since it can only be done when the target is near a map edge and sailing roughly parallel to the map edge.

 

Or alternatively use the tactic to launch three torpedos at such a target from astern, forcing the target ship to sail in a straight line to avoid being hit by the stern torpedo attack, and then come in from the side with the Ta 152 C-1 for another torpedo attack to have a chance to get up till three torpedo hits because the target ship is forced to sail in a straight line to avoid getting hit by the stern torpedoes.

 

While that all sounds fine and works if all goes well, it is not fine because it take too much time to setup and if the target ship instantly  turns towards the stern torpedo attack he can still easily defeat this torpedo bombing tactic. And that means the Carrier Commander has lost valuable time just flying and turning his Ta 152 C-1 with torpedos for zero result, and while losing aircraft to Flak to make matters worse. And lost time without Damage inflicted more often than not makes the difference between winning and losing a match.

 

That is the main drawback of the GZ Ta 152 C-1 Torpedo Bombers in WOWS: they can be easily countered by the target ship by clever speed and course changes and due to the huge turning circle . The great speed of the GZ Ta 152 C-1 makes countering those evasion tactics difficult and practically impossible against fast moving and turning ships like Destroyers.

 

So if the new German Carrier line will have fast and slow turning Torpedo Bombers like the GZ Ta 152 C-1 that are "designed" by WOWS Developers to be used against Destroyers (as mentioned in the Development Blog) than that means they not only can be easily countered by the nimble fast moving and turning Destroyers BUT the Damage Per Second of those Torpedo Bombers will be a LOT less than that which is inflicted by rockets.

 

For example the GZ Me 155 A-1 armed with rockets is comparatively slow in WOWS but it is very nimble and it has a very small turning circle that takes up very little space on the map. The GZ Me 155 A-1 is much more responsive than the Ta 152 C-1 in WOWS and in that respect a lot more fun to "fly". Combine that with slowing down while turning and the GZ Me 155 A-1 can easily make at least three attack runs on an enemy Destroyer in a short amount of time and in a very small area and a skilled Carrier Commander can as a result then HIT the enemy Destroyer with Rockets with each attack run (although the RNG will sometimes give 0 hits even with a perfect ON TARGET salvo).

 

Almost every Carrier in WOWS can effectively attack an enemy Destroyer fast and effectively with rockets, which increases their DPS against Destroyers and makes them effective in matches. Even the average skill Destroyer Commander can evade aerial torpedoes, but evading aerial rockets is not that easy. So rockets are a reliable anti-Destroyer weapon and torpedoes are not. If the German Carriers will be forced to fight Destroyers with fast and slow turning Torpedo Bombers that take a long time and large space to turn then they will have low Damage Per Second rates compared to the other Carriers in WOWS and be forced to use torpedoes that are an inferior anti-Destroyer weapon compared to rockets. If that is the case the upcoming German Carriers will be uncompetitive and as a result sub par. But that is probably the whole idea because German ships in WOWS generally are designed to be inferior in performance.

 

Edited by Widar_Thule
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On 5/28/2020 at 7:56 PM, Gaumut said:

Hope you will look back at Graf Zeppelin when the new CVs are out... she need some love.

 

On 5/28/2020 at 6:30 PM, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Read more here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/23

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

As mentioned earlier I have to date played 1806 matches on the EU server in the GRAF ZEPPELIN since version 8.0 was released in February 2019. This gives me a decent insight in the strengths and weaknesses of the Ta 152 C-1 as depicted in WOWS and based on that I write the following.

 

Even though WOWS representatives (@Sub_Octavian) in 2019 have publicly stated on at least one occasion that the Ta 152 C-1 armed with a single AP Bomb would be improved, this up till today has not been done. If the GRAF ZEPPELIN had been a USSR ship in WOWS she would not have been nerfed five times in 2019 to the point where she has arguably become the worst performing Tier 8 Carrier. Surely the need for an improvement of her AP Bombers would never have been a question to begin with if she had been a USSR ship in WOWS. 

 

This repeated paying customer feedback on this issue on all forums by many of their customers has been stoically and dutifully ignored by those at WOWS Management who are responsible for improvements in this area.

 

Needless to say, if GRAF ZEPPELIN had been a USSR Carrier in WOWS she would never be equipped in game with 1/3 of her aircraft armament being almost useless due to its extreme unreliability.

 

The upcoming German Carrier line creates the possibility of finally introducing a long overdue solution for the severly underwhelming AP Bomb armed Ta 152 C-1 on the GRAF ZEPPELIN (GZ).

 

Currently the GZ has this aerial armament:

 

- Me 155 A-1 rocket armed aircraft that are an effective but very fragile anti-Destroyer weapon (they are markedly less effective in Tier 10 matches and borderline ineffective against the recently released strong Flak EU Destroyers due to the ME 155 A-1 having very few Hit Points);

- Ta 152 C-1 AP bomb armed aircraft that are an unreliable anti-Battleship weapon and even more unreliable anti-Cruiser weapon (due to low hit rate, low number of bombs per attack run and the unreliable damage rate (either 0, 700 or 7000 as decided by RNG even when hitting a weak armour spot on the target ship);

- Ta 152 C-1 aerial torpedo armed aircraft that are a fairly effective anti-Battleship weapon which can however easily be evaded by skilled enemy Commanders, and a marginally effective anti-Cruiser weapon.

 

It would be nice if the +/- 50 Euro/USD costing GZ would finally have a ordnance alternative for their disastrously underwhelming Ta 152 C-1 armed with AP Bombs. The GZ Ta 152 C-1 could be given the option to alternatively be armed with the AP Rockets that are currently scheduled to be used by the Tier 10 Aircraft Carrier RICHTHOFEN. In that way the GZ player would have a choice to:

 

- Either equip his Ta 152 C-1 with AP Bombs;

- Or equip his Ta 152 C-1 with AP Rockets.

 

The USA Carriers have a choice to equip one of their aircraft squadrons with either 12 cm or 29 cm rockets. The GZ can likewise be given the choice to equip their Ta 152 C-1 either with AP Bombs or with AP Rockets.

 

The new setup for the GZ would then give the GZ player an ordnance choice for the Ta-152 C-1 that could look as follows:

 

- Ta 152 C-1 AP bomb armed aircraft that are an unreliable anti-Battleship weapon and even more unreliable anti-Cruiser weapon (due to low hit rate, low number of bombs per attack run and the unreliable damage rate (either 0, 700 or 7000 as decided by RNG even when hitting a weak armour spot on the target ship));

 

- Ta 152 C-1 AP rocket armed aircraft that should be a reliable anti-Cruiser weapon.

 

@Gaumut: Hope dies last...

 

Edited by Widar_Thule
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On 5/28/2020 at 6:30 PM, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Read more here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/23

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

When reading the development blog about the German Carrier line I get the impression that an effort is being made to come up with some sort of original "approach" or "gimmick" to set the German Carriers apart from the other Carrier lines in WOWS.

 

Instead of coming up with the "original" idea to have a whole German Carrier line that has to fight Destroyers with torpedoes I suggest this alternative.

 

1. Equip the German Carriers Attack Aircraft with Rockets against Destroyers like the GRAF ZEPPELIN. They are easy and fun to use (which is important) and effective (which is important to make the German Carrier line competitive compared to the already existing Carrier lines).

 

2. Give the German Carriers Bomber Aircraft two options to choose form on each Carrier: either AP Bombs against Battleships or AP Rockets against Cruisers. Make sure however that both are fairly easy to use (like the USA and Japanese ones) and drop more than two bombs per attack run than the current GRAF ZEPPELIN does to make sure they are easy and fun to use (which is important) and effective (which is important to make the German Carrier line competitive compared to the already existing Carrier lines). The AP Rockets and the aircraft firing them should be comparable to the Me 155 A-1 of the GRAF ZEPPELIN but with considerable more Hit Points to be able to still be usefull when being bottom tier.

 

3. Give the German Carriers Torpedo Bomber Aircraft that are tailored to be used against Battleships BUT completely different different from those of the other Carriers in WOWS in that they handle more like bombs than torpedoes in their attack run procedure.

 

BOMBEN TORPEDO

 

Instead of conventional torpedoes I propose the "Bomben Torpedo" for the German Carriers, at least for all German Carriers from at least Tier 8 and 10.

 

Here is some data on the "Bomben Torpedo".

 

The late 1944/1945 torpedo weapon of choice would have been the "Bomben Torpedo 1400" or BT 1400 for short.

 

Fw 190:

 

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Some sources state that the BT was used by Fw 190 F-8 of 11. Staffel (Squadron) / Kampfgeschwader 200 (Bomber Wing 200) against Remagen Bridge and against shipping.

 

Some sources state that Fw 190 F-8 / R-16 equiped with BT 700 flew night attacks against British ships from Stavanger airfield in Norway.

 

Me 110:

 

6Fhlb3B.png

 

Data on the "Bomben Torpedo"

 

 

Purported source: German Explosive Ordnance Vol. 1: Bombs, Rockets, Grenades, Mines, Fuzes & Igniters

 

Data can be found here:

http://ww2data.blogspot.com/2019/05/german-explosive-ordnance-concrete.html

 

"BT (Bomben Torpedo)

 

General: The aircraft torpedo is an expensive, complicated weapon.  The proportion of explosive weight is low.  Mass production is lengthy and expensive.  In addition, present day performance of torpedo engines limit the speed and range of the projectile.  Both of these items are essentials for accuracy and safety from anti-aircraft fire.

 

A relatively simple weapon would result were the torpedo engine and the control gear omitted.  If this simplified weapon were launched so that the greater portion of the distance to the target was covered through the air, as with an ordinary bomb, the initial speed of the launch would be retained over nearly all the range.  The projectile would enter the water just short of the target and carry on in the direction of its flight in air by reason of its momentum in the same was as does a torpedo.  To prevent it from going too deep before detonation, a relatively flat angle of entry into the water is necessary.

 

Such a weapon was developed in Germany during the closing months of the war, and it was called the Bomben Torpedo.  It combines the characteristics of the bomb to travel a long distance in a short time interval with the characteristics of a torpedo in that underwater travel eliminates range errors.

 

Details:


The BT was developed in four sizes: 200kg, 400kg, 700kg, and the 1400kg.  They all incorporated the same general shape and construction, and were entirely of steel.  They were constructed in three pieces; the warhead (two sections) and the tail section.  The forward section of the warhead was in the shape of a truncated cone, and the after section of the warhead was cylindrical.  The transverse fuze pocket was located in the cylindrical section just aft the point where the two sections were welded together.  The suspension lug T-type, was secured to the warhead just forward of this weld at the center of gravity.

 

Tail Section: The tail section was also in the shape of a truncated cone.  There were three very large fins placed 120 degree apart at the after end of the section.  This type of tail provided excellent stability for the bomb while it was in the air.  The tail section was secured to the after section of the warhead in such a manner that when the missile struck the water, it was jettisoned.

 

Early in the experiments, a BT 1000 was worked on and this missile had a rocket motor inside the tail section.  This idea was soon dropped as it proved impractical for the missile.


Underwater Behavior: The bomb must in no event ricochet off the water, not even in flat angles of entry, but must continue without deviation of its path of entry.

 

It is known that with ogival noses, as seen in the illustration of the BT 1400, a bomb will ricochet off the water when it strikes at a flat angle.  By using a flat nose, as seen in the illustration of the BT 700, or better yet by using a spoiler plate, this ricochet at flat angles is definitely avoided.  The front surface of the spoiler plate is made in the form of a section of a sphere of radius, equivalent to the distance between the surface of the spoiler plate and the bomb's center of gravity.  As the flow of force is practically perpendicular to the upper surface of the body when it is awash, the resulting flow of force must go through the center of gravity and thus it causes no turning moment.

 

A spoiler plate with the same diameter as the bomb, however, has a high water drag.  The ideal situation is to have the size of the plate less than the greatest caliber of the bomb body and so shaped that only the spoiler plate and no other part strikes the surface of the water at flat angles of entry."

 

--------------------

 

Purported source Luftwaffe document: L.Dv. 4200.

 

"Dreamk" partly and roughly translated the document.

 

Data can be found here (in German):

http://michaelhiske.de/Wehrmacht/Luft/Luft/LDV_4200/SERIE_S/INDEX_S.HTM

 


"L.Dv. 4200

(July 1944)

Vormerkblatt

Preliminary note:


In contrast to those of the BT 200, 400 and 700, the body of the BT 1400 consists of thin-walled sheet steel. In order to ensure that the explosive in the BT body detonates properly before being smashed, a deformation head with built-in special tip holder connects to the baffle plates. The air tail is blown off electrically-pyrotechnically when it hits the water.

......


Usage

The BT 700 will initially be used by the Fw 290 against aircraft carriers, merchant ships, light and heavy cruisers, etc. No direct, but special underwater hits should be achieved under the ship.
The BT 400 is used against sea point targets such as light cruisers, merchant ships, etc. by the Fw 190. No direct, special underwater seam hits should be achieved with it, if possible under the ship.  
The BT 200 is used against small sea point targets such as landing craft, submarines etc. first by the Fw 190. No direct, but special underwater seam hits should be reached, if possible under the ship.

......

The BT is a mine bomb made of cast iron without self-propulsion and is used over a long airway and a short underwater path. It consists of the bomb body with the detonator socket and the tail unit to stabilize the BT during the airway. The requirements, high willingness to enter at angles of impact of 10 - 90 ° and straight line continuation of the direction of movement when water enters through a water path of 60 - 80 m, are met by the special shape of the BT and the baffle plate attached to the front of the truncated cone.

    
The air control unit consists of 3 guide surfaces offset by 120 ° to each other, of which the one pointing downwards can be folded up sideways in order to gain sufficient ground clearance for loading and take-off. The tail surfaces protrude beyond the caliber diameter. The air control unit is attached to the support arm of the BT body with a predetermined breaking screw made of aluminum. When the water enters, the breaking screw breaks so that the tail unit detaches from the BT body and does not affect the watercourse.

    
Raising the BT on the air tail is prohibited! The rear centering ring of the BT, on which the tail unit is pushed, must be kept rust-free by greasing.

[For the BT200 and BT400,] the support arm for the tail assembly is initially available in two versions. In the BT 200 C1/ BT 400 C1 (older version), it is welded to the base plate of the BT body, stiffened by three angle plates. In the new, final version of the BT 200 C2/ BT 400 C2, the support arm is housed in the tail unit.

Operation

If the BT 200 C2 enters the water approx. 20 m before the destination, "mV ignition" takes place via the mV ignition circuit of the AZ (28) C / 0.35 after 0.12 seconds under the ship . In the event of unwanted direct ship hits, "oV ignition" occurs immediately via the break ignition circuit of the AZ (28) C / 035
If the BT 400 C2/ 700 C2 enters the water approx. 25 m before the destination, "mV ignition" takes place via the mV ignition circuit of the AZ (28) C / 0.35 after 0.18 seconds under the ship , In the event of unwanted direct ship hits, "oV ignition" occurs immediately via the break ignition circuit of the AZ (28) C / 0.35.

4th   identification
    
The BT body is painted beige gray. BT 200 C or BT 200 C2, BT 400 C or BT 400 C2, BT 700 C or BT 700 C2 is stenciled on the body in black.

5th   packaging
    
A BT 700 is packaged for transport on the BT 700 carriage. The air control units are delivered separately from the BT bodies in triangular slatted frames and stored there until they are attached. "

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On 5/28/2020 at 6:30 PM, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Read more here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/23

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

Based on German wartime official documentation regarding the real world ordnance available to and used by the Me 109, Ju 87, Fw 190 and Ta 152 series, I propose to use these Aircraft and this ordnance setup for the new German Carriers in WOWS from Tier 6 upwards:

 

Tier 6 Carrier WESER (1941 era equipment)

·         Me 109 T-1 (See VI below) with 2x2 HE 210 mm "Wurfgranaten 42" (Projector Grenades 42) (See I below)

·         Ju 87 C-1 (See VII below) with 1x 500 kg AP Bomb (See II below) and 4x 50 kg HE Bombs (See III below)

·         Ju 87 C-1 (See VII below) with 1x "LT 5" (See V below)

 

Tier 8 Carrier PARSEVAL and the Tier 6 Premium Carrier LOEWENHARDT (1943 era equipment)

·         Me 155 A-1 (See VI below) with with 2x2 HE 210 mm "Wurfgranaten 42" (Projector Grenades 42)

·         Ju 87 E-1 (See VII below) with 1x 500 kg AP Bomb (See II below) and 2x 250 kg HE Bombs (See IV below)

·         Ju 87 E-1 with 1x "LT 5" (See V below)

 

Tier 10 Carrier RICHTHOFEN and the Tier 8 Premium Carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN (1945 era equipment)

·         Ta 152 C-1/R11 (See VIII below) with 2x6 = 12x "Panzerblitz 2" Armour Piercing 88 mm rockets that could penetrate 180 mm of steel armour

·         Ta 152 C-1/R11 (See VIII below) armed with 1x 500 kg AP Bomb (See II below) and 2x 250 kg HE Bombs (See IV below)

 

As for the 1944/1945 torpedo bomber armament there are two options based on official wartime Luftwaffe documentation:

·         Ta 152 C-1/R14 (See VIII below) armed with a 780 kg "LT IB" short torpedo or an 850 kg "LT IB" long torpedo, this torpedo was fielded in early 1944

·         Ta 152 C-1/R15 (See VIII below) armed with a "BT 1400" (1400 kg "Bomben Torpedo", or Bomb Torpedo) (See IX below)

 

I propose the BT 1400 for the Tier 10 Carrier RICHTHOFEN and for the Tier 8 Premium Carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN as an ordnance variant.

 

 

Notes

(I) 2x1 or 2x2 rockets in the 21 cm "BR-Gerät" ("Bord-Raketen-Gerät", or on-board rocket device) or R-2 ("Rüstsatz 2", or Ordnance set 2). These devices allowed the firing of the 21 cm "Wurfgranaten 42" (Projector Grenades 42) of the 21 cm "Nebelwerfer 42"' (Nebel Rocket Launcher 42). On the Me 109 Aircraft series these devices were first mounted on the 1943 Bf 109 G-6 Aircraft. Rudolf Nebel was a WW1 fighter pilot, rocket and space pioneer/engineer that invented the Nebel Rocket Launcher that was named after him.

 

(II) 1x 500 kg "PC" ("Panzersprengbombe, Cylindrisch") "Paulina" - Armour Piercing High Explosive Bomb, Cylindrical

 

(III) 4x 50 kg "SC" ("Sprengbombe, Cylindrisch") - High Explosive Bomb, Cylindrical

 

(IV) 2x 250 kg "SC" ("Sprengbombe, Cylindrisch") - High Explosive Bomb, Cylindrical

 

(V) A 650-kg 450-mm Torpedo. This is either the German torpedo "Typ F 5 b" (40 knot speed/2000 meter range) or the Italian "Typ F 5 W" (W for Whitehead-Fiume) (40 knot/3000 meter range). The main practical differences between the two torpedoes types were mostly Torpedo drop speed and Torpedo drop height.

 

(VI) The Carrier Aircraft Me 109 T was produced in limited numbers up till 1941. The Me 155 A-1 was the Carrier version of the 1943 produced Me 109 G-6 Aircraft. Knowledgeable researchers have suggested that it is highly likely that the 1943 Me 209 V5 prototype Aircraft was the 1942/1943 Me 155 A-1 design. The Me 209 V5 bore no resemblance whatsoever to the earlier Me 209 V1 till V4 prototype Aircraft and the Me 209 V5 was presented in 1943 without any prior work having been done on it, making it highly likely that it was in fact the cancelled 1942/1943 designed Me 155 A-1 that was being presented as the 1943 Me 209 V5 instead. The Me 209 V5 design and its specifications have remarkable similarities with the Me 155 A-1 design specifications.

 

(VII) The Carrier Aircraft Ju 87 C was produced in limited numbers up till 1941. The Ju 87 E-1 was the Carrier version of the 1943 produced Ju 87 D-5. At least one Ju 87 E-1 prototype has been confirmed to have been built and tested.

 

(VIII) The Ta 152 C-1 was a medium altitude fighter and fighter bomber equipped with the Daimler Benz DB 603 L engine, it was not equipped with a pressurized cockpit and could operate up till 11.5 km, it had the same wings and wingspan as the Fw 190 series but considerably superior performance. The Ta 152 C-1 was designed in such a way that it could use all ordnance that was used by the Fw 190 series. About nine Ta 152 C prototypes were built and tested from 1944 onward. Ta 152 C-1 production was scheduled to start in February 1945 and mass production in March 1945 in four factories. Photographic evidence makes clear that Ta 152 C-1 production was started but to date it has not been possible to determine how many were actually produced. Production of at least two series Ta 152 C-1 has been confirmed. The Ta 152 C-1 aircraft is not to be confused with the Ta 152 H-1 high altitude fighter equipped with a Junkers Jumo 213 A engine, that was equipped with a pressurized cockpit and could operate up till 13.9 km, it had a different wing and a considerably larger wingspan than the Ta 152 C and Fw 190 series. About twelve Ta 152 H prototypes were built and tested from 1944 onward. Ta 152 H-1 production was scheduled to start in November 1944 and mass production in January 1945 in three factories. Production of at least 35 production Ta 152 H-1 has been confirmed. There is no publicly available evidence that the Ta 152 was ever designed to be used as a Carrier Aircraft. The Ta 152 C-1/R14 and R15 were designed however to carry aerial torpedoes. The Ta 152 C-1/R-14 was designed to carry either a 780 kg "LT IB" short torpedo or an 850 kg "LT IB" long torpedo. The Ta 152 C-1/R-15 was designed to carry a "BT 1400" (1400 kg "Bomben Torpedo", or Bomb Torpedo).

 

(IX) The BT 1400 was a 1400 kg passive torpedo weapon called "Bomben Torpedo" ("BT", or Bomb Torpedo). The BT was airdropped from a low height and relative short distance from the target, would enter the water and travel the short remaining distance through the water solely driven by its kinetic energy. It was designed in 1943, developed and tested in 1944 and found to be considerably more effective than conventional torpedoes of WW2. It was as a result chosen as replacement for all conventional torpedoes. Mass production of the BT started in late 1944 but was disrupted when allied troops occupied BT production facilities in Molsheim (Elsass).

 

 

Suggested sources for the above information are:

- "Der Flugzeugträger" (1968) by Wilhelm Hadeler (unique book written by the lead designer of the Aircraft Carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN that also covers her design)

- "Flugzeugträger Graf Zeppelin" (1994) by Ulrich H.J. Israel (the best and most complete single book on all aspects of the Aircraft Carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN and her Aircraft)

- "Flugzeugträger Graf Zeppelin" (2007) by Richard Wagner and Manfred Wilske (contains rare valuable primary source data on the GRAF ZEPPELIN, her Aircraft and unique rare comparative Carrier Aircraft data)

- "Freedom of the seas" (2010) by Stephen Burke and Adam Olejnik (contains rare valuable primary source data on the GRAF ZEPPELIN, but alas also some errors and useless superfluous theories and speculations)

- "STUKA" (1993) by Helmuth Mahlke (a book by a WW2 veteran and ranking naval aviation officer in the WW2 GRAF ZEPPELIN Ju 87 Air Group)

- "Focke-Wulf Fw 190 / Ta 152" (1997) by Manfred Griehl and Joachim Dresssel (a book on the Fw 190 series and the Ta 152 series by experts on the subject)

- "Focke-Wulf Ta 152" (1999) by Dietmar Harmann (a book on the Ta 152 series by an expert on the subject)

- "Messerschmitt Bf 109 T" by Francis Marshall (2002) (the most detailed book on all aspects of the Me 109 T)

- "Die deutsche Luftfahrt" Volume/Band 1 (1980) by Wolfgang Wagner (a book on all Focke Wulf Aircraft designed by Kurt Tank et al)

- "Die deutsche Luftfahrt" Volume/Band 4 (1983) by Rüdiger Kosin (a book detailing German Fighter Aircraft from 1918 till 1982)

- "Die deutsche Luftfahrt" Volume/Band 17 (1992) by Hans Ebert, Johann B. Kaiser and Klaus Peters (a book on all Messerschmitt Aircraft designed by Willy Messerschmitt et al)

 

The book on the Ta 152 series written by Dietmar Harmann as well as his other earlier two books on the Fw 190 series includes official documentation on all the ordnance that the Fw 190 series up till the Ta 152 used, this book:

 

Spoiler

nveRPlx.png%26key=ba9f7ec47e3123bd7e6875

 

Some example of primary source data from that book.

 

The whole Ta 152 series (note the Ta 152 C-1 / R15 with the BT 1400):

 

dVQruAr.png

 

Data on the single-engined fighters dated 1 October 1944, the Ta 152 listed are the pre-production series (the C-0 with DB 603 L and C-0 with DB 603 E engine, H-0 and E-0 with Jumo 213 E engine), the C-1 and H-1 production versions had better performance data:

 

Ytq81V4.png

 

Focke-Wulf design drawing for torpedo armed Fw 190 F 16 / R-14 and Ta 152 C-1 / R-14:

 

uLhJ45D.jpg

 

Edited by Widar_Thule
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On 5/28/2020 at 6:30 PM, zzzFrostVortexzzz said:

Read more here: https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/23

Please note that all information in the development blog is preliminary and subject to change during testing. Any showcased features may or may not end up on the main server. The final information will be published on our game's website.

 

The choice of aircraft for the German Carrier line in WOWS is not authentic. The impression is that the WOWS historical research department had great difficulty in ascertaining both the German Carrier Aircraft that were designed in Germany and the actual German Carrier designs that were made.

 

Fortunately there is no need to reinvent the wheel because good books have been written by authors that have spent decades researching this subject. The impression is that the WOWS research department missed these sources and it is greatly advised that the WOWS research department consults these sources to create an accurate representation of German Carrier Aircraft from 1926-1945.

 

These two sources described the German Carrier Aircraft in detail and I advise the WOWS Development team to take note of them:

 

- "Flugzeugträger Graf Zeppelin" (1994) by Ulrich H.J. Israel (the best and most complete single book on all aspects of the Aircraft Carrier GRAF ZEPPELIN and her Aircraft), this book:

 

pvK76BL.jpg

 

The professional historian and author Ulrich Israel spent close to ten years of research on this subject, using the unique primary source data he had access to as a high ranking naval officer in the navy of former Communist Germany.

 

 

- "Flugzeugträger Graf Zeppelin" (2007) by Richard Wagner and Manfred Wilske (contains rare valuable primary source data on the GRAF ZEPPELIN, her Aircraft and unique rare comparative Carrier Aircraft data), this book:

 

hCdF4A2.jpg

 

The authors Wagner (a naval aviatior and officer in the West German Navy) and Wilske (a naval propulsion engineer) of the latter book have spent almost 30 years of research on this subject. They have collected an impressive amount of many primary source documents, and even met and interviewed Wilhelm Hadeler (arguably THE key lead designer of the real world GRAF ZEPPELIN) during the course of their research and collected and used 1:300 and 1:100 original design blueprints of the GRAF ZEPPELIN in order to create a near-perfect 1:100 scale model of the GRAF ZEPPELIN.

 

 

 

The origins of German Carrier Aircraft

 

The GRAF ZEPPELIN was designed in 1935-1936 and at that time no German Carrier Aircraft actually existed that were going to be used aboard the GRAF ZEPPELIN Aircraft Carrier class. The design team behind the GRAF ZEPPELIN rightly assumed that the Carrier Aircraft that existed in Germany in 1935-1936 were considered to be going to be obsolete by the time the GRAF ZEPPELIN would be completed in 1941 and even more so for the seven sister ships of the GRAF ZEPPELIN that were going to be built and completed after the GRAF ZEPPELIN based on the latest and final version of the naval shipbuilding "Z Plan".

 

Naval engineer and designer Wilhelm Hadeler and the design team of which he was part were given the task to create a Fleet Aircraft Carrier design that would be able to modernized and used at least over a 20 to 25 year period after completion. The GRAF ZEPPELIN was scheduled to be completed in 1941 so that means the design had to be able to modernized at least until 1960 to 1965. In order to do that a large "reserve" was built into the design by Wilhelm Hadeler based on his documentation. The "reserve" came in the shape of building the largest purpose-built Aircraft Carrier in the world by 1935/1936 standards with the largest hanger capacity of any Carrier then in existence anywhere. There was a major reason for that: the Carrier Aircraft that were going to be used in 1941 on the GRAF ZEPPELIN did not yet exist, their dimensions and weight had to be estimated. Hadeler rightly assumed that they would continu to greatly increase in dimensions and weight. And as a result everything, from the two huge hangers to the elevator size to the maximum catapult size and the maximum elevator lift weight, was increased by a huge amount in order for the GRAF ZEPPELIN design to be able to handle large and heavy aircraft that at the time did not even exist and to allow for substantial modernizations of the "island" on the Flight Deck.

 

That foresight turned out to be spot on.

 

Germany had only started to seriously reconstruct the military and the military industry in 1935-1936 from a more or less totally disarmed state due to a long period of military inactivity that had started in 1918/1919 when Germany had disarmed.

 

Wilhelm Hadeler in his design studies dating back to 1933 wanted the GRAF ZEPPELIN Aircraft Carrier class to be able to be equipped with at least 60 Aircraft, all with foldable wings like the later Fi 167.

 

The design, development, production and testing of Carrier Aircraft started in earnest in 1935 and lasted right up till 1945. The effort invested in German Carrier Aircraft was decreased but not stopped in 1940 but interestingly from 1941 onwards till the end of the war the development and testing of both Carrier Aircraft and their armament continued unabated!

 

 

 

Author Ulrich Israel lists these German Carrier Aircraft for the period of 1926-1935:

 

- Heinkel HD 23 as Carrier Fighter (1926)

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oWYbgOa.png

 

- Heinkel HD 38 al as Carrier Fighter (1929)

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DSrIVrO.jpg

 

- Heinkel He 50 B as Carrier Dive Bomber (1935)

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ApPXs3g.jpg

 

The dimensions of these early German Carrier Aircraft as well as of contemporary Japanese, British and USA Carrier Aircraft were used as a basis by Wilhelm Hadeler et al and extrapolated to what they would most likely be in 10 to 20 years (so heavily increased in dimensions, weight etc.).

 

And these German Carrier Aircraft for the period of 1938-1939:

 

- Arado Ar 195 as Carrier Multi-Purpose Aircraft (1938)

Spoiler

pD0y3wD.jpg

 

- Arado Ar 197 as Carrier Fighter Aircraft (1938)

Spoiler

P5Zpel_bfMJZobk8ZEBh71Xl2F9lV9_JNpYGnvWt

 

- Fieseler Fi 167 as Carrier Multi-Purpose Aircraft (1939) (Torpedo Bomber, Level Bomber, Mine Layer, Smoke Layer, Reconnaissance)

Spoiler

6LPb8ew.jpg

 

And these German Carrier Aircraft for the period of 1941-1942:

 

- Junkers Ju 87 C-1 as Carrier Dive Bomber (1941)

Spoiler

YLHHREL.jpg

 

- Messerschmitt Me 109 T-1 as Carrier Fighter (1941)

Spoiler

UBrsYOG4qfkxMXsS9OJx0ddn68CLzrTYawnRIXI9

 

And these German Carrier Aircraft for the period of 1943:

 

- Junkers Ju 87 E (naval Ju 87 D-5) as Carrier Multi-Purpose Aircraft (1942)

Spoiler

AFZFfWE.jpg

 

- Messerschmitt Me 155 A as Carrier Fighter (1943), (several authors have reached the conclusion that the Me 155 A was redesignated Me 209 V5 in 1943 after Admiral Dönitz had ordered that GRAF ZEPPELIN was not to be completed)

Spoiler

F14EOzo.jpg

 

hZtnDQu.png

 

The Naval Aviation Arm of the Luftwaffe was composed of veteran naval aviators and naval officers that had transferred to the Luftwaffe on 1 January 1935 when all naval aviation personnel and equipment became part of the Luftwaffe. These now former Naval Aviators had no animosity towards the Navy and worked together well together with their Naval officer colleagues right up till 1945. GRAF ZEPPELIN would have been completed in 1941, a second completion date would have been 1943. In 1939-1940 the Luftwaffe Naval Aviation Arm had selected the Ju 87 and Me 109 for use aboard GRAF ZEPPELIN in 1941 and rejected the Fi 167 biplane for use aboard the GRAF ZEPPELIN. The Navy preferred the Fi 167 in the role of Reconnaissance, Smoke Layer and Torpedo Bomber over the Ju 87 C, but the Luftwaffe Naval Aviation Arm had the final say in the matter and preferred the Ju 87 C, so the Ju 87 C-1 was chosen to equip the GRAF ZEPPELIN in 1941 together with the Me 109 T-1 when she was to be commissioned.

 

 

 

Authors Wagner and Wilske have divided the German Carrier Aircraft designs into four phases.

 

Phase I: Definition, from 1935-1937

Phase II: Design, development and construction, from 1937-1939

Phase III: Testing, from 1939-1942

Phase IV: Reorientation, from 1942 till 1945

 

 

 

These Carrier Aircraft adaptations were part of Phase I: Definition, from 1935-1937

 

The Luftwaffe considered Carrier Aircraft of such importance that of all the prototypes that were in existence of land base Aircraft from 1935-197 at least two Aircraft had to be adapted for use on Carriers!

 

These Aircraft were adapted for Carrier Aircraft use:

 

- He 50 (three were adapted with Carrier arrester gear)

Spoiler

ApPXs3g.jpg

 

- Ar 197 (2 prototypes, one of which was in Rechlin)

Spoiler

P5Zpel_bfMJZobk8ZEBh71Xl2F9lV9_JNpYGnvWt

 

- Ar 195 (3 prototypes)

Spoiler

pD0y3wD.jpg

 

- He 112 (two prototypes)

Spoiler

4BTDA8v.jpg

 

- He 118 (2 Aircraft of the pre-production 0 series)

Spoiler

kWW0RKI.jpg

 

- Bf 109 / Me 109 (6 prototypes)

Spoiler

UBrsYOG4qfkxMXsS9OJx0ddn68CLzrTYawnRIXI9

 

- Fi 167 (3 prototypes)

Spoiler

6LPb8ew.jpg

 

- Ju 87 (2 prototypes of the B-0 pre-production series)

Spoiler

YLHHREL.jpg

 

- Avia B.534 (3 Aircraft)

Spoiler

5lDGT3M.jpg

 

The Carrier Aircraft had to be selected to fill these roles:

 

- Carrier Trainer

- Carrier Fighter / Fighter-Escort

- Carrier Dive Bomber

- Carrier Level Bomber / Torpedo Bomber / Reconnaissance Aircraft / Smoke Layer / Mine Layer

 

The Luftwaffe had determind that for each role at least two and a maximum of three competitor designs were to be selected.

 

 

 

The Carrier Aircraft adaptations listed under Phase I were selected for Phase II: Design, development and construction, from 1937-1939

 

By 1938 the very large purpose built Naval Aviation Test Center at Travemünde (Erprobungsstelle SEE Travemünde, or E-Stelle SEE Travemünde for short) as well as the production of Carrier adapted Aircraft had reached the level of completion required for trials and tests to be commenced in detail of all the aircraft listed in Phase I.

 

 

 

These Carrier Aircraft adaptations were part of Phase III: Testing, from 1939-1942

 

At the end of 1938 the Luftwaffe had selected these Aircraft for Carrier related use:

 

Carrier Trainer: He 50 T-1 and He 50 T-2

Spoiler

ApPXs3g.jpg

 

A downgraded export version of the He 50 was made and designated He 66, this was sold to Japan including the right to build it under license. The Japanese firm of Aichi then started construction of the He 66 under the designation D1A1, followed by the D1A2 which were used on Japanese Carriers up till 1940.

 

Carrier Trainer: Ar 197

Spoiler

P5Zpel_bfMJZobk8ZEBh71Xl2F9lV9_JNpYGnvWt

 

Carrier Fighter: Bf 109 T-1 (redesignated Me 109 T-1 on August 1938)

Spoiler

UBrsYOG4qfkxMXsS9OJx0ddn68CLzrTYawnRIXI9

 

Carrier Torpedo Bomber / Level Bomber / Reconnaissance: Fi 167

Spoiler

6LPb8ew.jpg

 

Carrier Dive Bomber: Ju 87 C-1

Spoiler

YLHHREL.jpg

 

Carrier Aircraft for general testing and trials: Ar 195 with arrestor gear

Spoiler

pD0y3wD.jpg

 

Carrier Aircraft for general testing and trials: Fi 165 with arrestor gear (interestingly the Fi 165 actually landed on a British Aircraft Carrier after WW2)

Spoiler

16213w4.jpg

 

 

 

By 1939-1940 the Luftwaffe had selected these Carrier Aircraft for the GRAF ZEPPELIN:

 

- Junkers Ju 87 C-1 as Multi Purpose Carrier Aircraft (1941) (Dive Bomber, Torpedo Bomber, Level Bomber, Reconnaissance, Smoke Aircraft)

Spoiler

YLHHREL.jpg

 

- Messerschmitt Me 109 T-1 as Carrier Fighter (1941) (Fighter and Escort Fighter)

Spoiler

UBrsYOG4qfkxMXsS9OJx0ddn68CLzrTYawnRIXI9

 

Note: the Ju 87 C did not yet have mountings for a torpedo in 1940, these were developed and tested in 1941-1942.

 

 

 

These Carrier Aircraft adaptations were part of Phase IV: Reorientation, from 1942 till 1945

 

Carrier Trainer: Ar 96 T

Spoiler

F5MYVLH.jpg

 

Carrier Fighter: Me 155 A (several authors have reached the conclusion that the Me 155 A was redesignated Me 209 V5 in 1943 after Admiral Dönitz had ordered that GRAF ZEPPELIN was not to be completed)

Spoiler

F14EOzo.jpg

 

hZtnDQu.png

 

Carrier Torpedo Bomber / Dive Bomber / Level Bomber / Reconnaissance: Ju 87 E (naval version of the Ju 87 D)

Spoiler

AFZFfWE.jpg

 

 

By 1942 the Luftwaffe had selected these Carrier Aircraft for use aboard GRAF ZEPPELIN:

 

- Junkers Ju 87 E-1 as Multi Purpose Carrier Aircraft (1942) (Dive Bomber, Torpedo Bomber, Level Bomber, Reconnaissance, Smoke Aircraft)

Spoiler

AFZFfWE.jpg

 

- Messerschmitt Me 155 A-1 as Carrier Fighter (1943) (Fighter and Escort Fighter), (several authors have reached the conclusion that the Me 155 A was redesignated Me 209 V5 in 1943 after Admiral Dönitz had ordered that GRAF ZEPPELIN was not to be completed)

Spoiler

F14EOzo.jpg

 

hZtnDQu.png

 

In 1939/1940 the Aircraft companies of Fieseler and Arado were contracted to develop Carrier Aircraft that were to replace the Ju 87 C in 2-3 years. There are indications that Junkers (JFW) was also contracted for this purpose.

 

These Carrier Aircraft were developed by Arado, Fieseler and arguably Junkers from 1939/1940 onwards:

 

- Arado E 240 V3 (Torpedo Bomber, Dive Bomber)

Spoiler

VB5zFzb.jpg

 

0YNnw0x.jpg

 

A6zgbGg.jpg

 

l5jL5qb.jpg

 

zykoiHO.jpg

 

2hNnbTs.jpg

 

MF6tJrO.jpg

 

8e1Y8DF.jpg

 

 

The third prototype of the Ar E 240, called Ar E 240 V3 (V3 for "Versuchsmaschine 3" which can be roughly translated as Prototype 3 in english) was used for the Ar E 310. For all intents and purposes the Ar E 310 was equal to the Ar E 240 V3, the main difference being that the Ar E 310 was the designation for the Carrier Aircraft adapted variant of the Ar E 240 V3.

 

- Arado E 310 (Torpedo Bomber, Dive Bomber)

Spoiler

Do68BsU.jpg

 

eP831NR.jpg

 

- Fieseler P19 (Torpedo Bomber, Multi Purpose Aircraft)

Spoiler

yDYMbbK.jpg

 

qOVK3d5.jpg

 

- Fieseler P 22C (Torpedo Bomber, Multi Purpose Aircraft)

Spoiler

GVymv90.jpg

 

- Junkers EF 82 (Dive Bomber)

Spoiler

VTFbhO9.jpg

 

8418664159_0bd6ddd2b9_c.jpg

 

Next to that the German Luftwaffe had developed and built the world's first production series helicopters. A German Navy order is on record that states that Flettner Fl 282 helicopters were to be stationed aboard GRAF ZEPPELIN to be used in the anti-submarine role. At that time the Fl 282 were already being used in the anti-submarine role.

 

The following helicopters existed and were tested for Luftwafe Naval Aviation purposes:

 

- Flettner Fl 265

Spoiler

C4NQ5C4.jpg

 

4vyywsm.jpg

 

The Fl 265 helicopter was first tested for naval purposes aboard the Light Cruiser KÖLN on a helicopter platform mounted on an aft main gun turret on 18 June 1941 and served as a testbed for helicopter technology.

 

- Flettner Fl 282

Spoiler

7zjZ1xM.jpg

 

urPMyyg.jpg

 

15340451125_0e41be2a47_b.jpg

 

nC0xgMv.jpg

 

The Fl 282 was for all intents and purposes a modern helicopter, in September 1942 the E-Stelle SEE in Travemünde started the first tests aboard the ship GREIF which was fitted with a helicopter platform. Thereafter more tests were done aboard the mine-layer ship DRACHE in the Mediterranean. North of Crete from the middle of November 1942 till the end of January 1943 more tests were conducted that focused on locating submarines. On 30 June 1943 a total of 14 ships were selected that were to be equipped with the Fl 282, most of them were submarine hunter ships. In March 1944 the ship ELSASS was adapted for helicopter use, the ship operated in the Baltic Sea from Pillau in eastern Germany. In 1943 the Italian Navy ordered one Fl 282 for use aboard the Italian Aircraft Carrier AQUILA.

 

The Flettner Fl 282 Kolibri (Humming Bird) as well as the much larger Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 Drache (Dragon) helicopter entered series production during the war and formed the basis for all post-war helicopters.

 

 

The most likely 1944-1945 Carrier Aircraft for the GRAF ZEPPELIN are:

 

- The Carrier version of the Arado E 240 V3 which was designated Ar E 310 (as Multi Purpose Carrier Aircraft (Dive Bomber, Torpedo Bomber, Level Bomber, Reconnaissance, Smoke Layer, Mine Layer) and replacement for the Ju 87 E-1

Spoiler

VB5zFzb.jpg

 

0YNnw0x.jpg

 

A6zgbGg.jpg

 

l5jL5qb.jpg

 

zykoiHO.jpg

 

2hNnbTs.jpg

 

MF6tJrO.jpg

 

8e1Y8DF.jpg

 

Spoiler

Do68BsU.jpg

 

eP831NR.jpg

 

The third prototype of the Ar E 240, called Ar E 240 V3 (V3 for "Versuchsmaschine 3" which can be roughly translated as Prototype 3 in english) was used for the Ar E 310. For all intents and purposes the Ar E 310 was equal to the Ar E 240 V3, the main difference being that the Ar E 310 was the designation for the Carrier Aircraft adapted variant of the Ar E 240 V3.

 

- Messerschmitt Me 155 A-1 as Carrier Fighter (Fighter and Escort Fighter), (several authors have reached the conclusion that the Me 155 A was redesignated Me 209 V5 in 1943 after Admiral Dönitz had ordered that GRAF ZEPPELIN was not to be completed)

Spoiler

F14EOzo.jpg

 

hZtnDQu.png

 

- Flettner Fl 282 Kolibri as Carrier Helicopter (Anti Submarine Helicopter)

Spoiler

7zjZ1xM.jpg

 

urPMyyg.jpg

 

15340451125_0e41be2a47_b.jpg

 

pI7YDJ7.jpg

 

nC0xgMv.jpg

 

Edited by Widar_Thule
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@Widar_Thule Please put that together and drop it into the "Player suggestions" section.

Since nothing of what you wrote has to do with our DB post in the fashion of feedback related to it, technically you are violating the forum guidelines.

Though you make some great points, so I don't want what you wrote to be lost.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

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On 5/28/2020 at 11:50 AM, eMercody_Viveleny said:

I’m interested in squadrons designed to torp DDs, I’ve had some success with other nations torpedoes and found it pretty fun.

Hehe, been there done that. It's not too difficult, once you learn to predict a DD' movements. The trick is not dropping the torps directly on them, but slightly off-centered. Typical DD reaction to getting dropped is to either go straight or turn out, both of which may result in getting hit (either as stern swings out when turning or simply by not anticipating a torpedo up their stern). 

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1 hour ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

@Widar_Thule Please put that together and drop it into the "Player suggestions" section.

Since nothing of what you wrote has to do with our DB post in the fashion of feedback related to it, technically you are violating the forum guidelines.

Though you make some great points, so I don't want what you wrote to be lost.

Someone give this guy a medal, he has done a great job of collecting this information. I appreciate having in-game features as historical as possible, and the above-mentioned planes would be very welcome, imho. 

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13 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

@Widar_Thule Please put that together and drop it into the "Player suggestions" section.

Since nothing of what you wrote has to do with our DB post in the fashion of feedback related to it, technically you are violating the forum guidelines.

Though you make some great points, so I don't want what you wrote to be lost.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

 

I have a lot more data like the data I posted above on the German Carriers and the German Carrier Aricraft designed, built and tested which makes clear that the direction taken in WOWS with representing them could be a lot less "paper" and a lot more authentic based on what actually existed or was ordered built. What is both a pity and amazing is that the best sources on German Carriers, German Carrier Aircraft and German Naval Aviation apparently have again not been used by those responsible for the German Carriers at WOWS. I had pointed the WOWS Developers to these sources in 2017/2018 but clearly that data has again not been used.

 

If I can make the time available required to write and organize it decently I will then take your suggestion to heart and post it in a separate topic like I did in 2017/2018 on the EU forum during the so-called GZ "redesign". That 2017/2018 GZ topic should be massively re-written but that takes time. So I thought it would be a good idea to at least post some of the data in this topic now, before the German Carriers are released, than post it after they are released.

 

Having said that I am of the impression that the data I posted above is actually spot on when looking at this image:

 

r0vYIBH.png

 

The data that I posted in this topic I have also posted on the EU forum and someone responded to it by posting the image above.

 

I do not know where he got that image from but, unless it is photoshopped/doctored, it shows a "Bomben Torpedo" (Bomb Torpedo) mounted under a Ta 152 C-1 (that would then technically be a Ta 152 C-1 / R-15). If that image is real then it is safe to assume that the "new" fast and short range torpedoes for the German Carriers that are mentioned in the ST Developer's Blog are going to be "Bomben Torpedoes".

 

 

Edited by Widar_Thule

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