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tm63au

Submarine feedback for WG

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OK just had my first game ever in a Submarine its great it was fun but i had no influence on the game apart from being chased around the map, fired off 1 torpedo before a Perth Got me.

The great thing was it was close game we won I got carried I still don't know what the hell I'm apart from steering and diving and surfacing.

I'm going to play some more games in the Sub mode which I really don't want to because until I know full well how these ships work and I'm confident in launching attack and evasion tactics I'm a liability to my team.

WG if you wont feedback fine here it is, enough of this rental crap for 3 weeks give us the ships permanently so those of us that are really interested in playing Subs can go into the training room and practise with them.

And get rid of this homing torpedo crap just give us the same system you had for the Halloween event along with there secondary weapons.

So does that feed back help

For those who want to have a laugh because its hilarious for a first win, here is my contribution to my first Victory

shot-20_05.28_22_20.01-0059.thumb.jpg.f211a35099db023171bfa827bb9458fd.jpg   

 

shot-20_05.28_22_20.14-0409.thumb.jpg.71e941ebfcc52e002d00286fbb7a3e83.jpg

 

 

 

    

Edited by tm63au
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I confess, tested them a very few games on PTS.  Probably 2-3 games. Just couldn't commit to it.     Tried it last night again after the Sub bundle dropped on my 1st roll.   So far it  feels like a long learning curve.  1st game in a sub I managed to torp & sink the enemy sub, which was rewarding, though pretty odd since we were both  at considerable depth. Seems like an odd mechanic?  still not sold on the homing torpedoes, though it seems like they have been nerf'd pretty hard in accuracy?    Played T-61 in second game of submarine battles and  wreaked havoc on two enemy subs after I outlasted the enemy DDs.  I'm going to be honest.... wasn't much they could do from my view?     Subs seem pretty difficult to play honestly,  the mechanics, early on to me, feel like they could lead to a considerable skill gap. Still, I'm struggling to see how they are going to be able to provide a lot of impact on matches?  As an add - I wish you could run your daily missions in that mode...  Just makes it hard to play and give up that daily reward, at least for me, if you don't play all that many matches or other events are going on?     I'll keep fiddling with them, but really don't see spending a lot of time in that mode.   There did seem to be a lot of players in it,   just not very many Subs, I suppose RNG needs a few more days to fill those among the population due to the crate drops?      

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12 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Still can't access subs because some low IQ genius at WeeGee thought it would be smart to use a random bundle system.

Already know I won't have access to them tomorrow either.

I wish I could trade your tomorrow's coal for my tomorrow's misfortune....

SubsTomorrow.jpg

Edited by theLaalaa

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22 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Still can't access subs because some low IQ genius at WeeGee thought it would be smart to use a random bundle system.

Already know I won't have access to them tomorrow either.

I just might say F!@# IT to the whole mode and wait for them to be put in the regular client down the road.

Like @Hel_Diver142 said take the money and run look at my first game sure when you finally get them have hopefully you do better than me, I will keep playing but I'm on them in the training room when we finally have them for good until then to those who end up on my team I will do my best.

cheers 

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15 minutes ago, iRA6E said:

I confess, tested them a very few games on PTS.  Probably 2-3 games. Just couldn't commit to it.     Tried it last night again after the Sub bundle dropped on my 1st roll.   So far it  feels like a long learning curve.  1st game in a sub I managed to torp & sink the enemy sub, which was rewarding, though pretty odd since we were both  at considerable depth. Seems like an odd mechanic?  still not sold on the homing torpedoes, though it seems like they have been nerf'd pretty hard in accuracy?    Played T-61 in second game of submarine battles and  wreaked havoc on two enemy subs after I outlasted the enemy DDs.  I'm going to be honest.... wasn't much they could do from my view?     Subs seem pretty difficult to play honestly,  the mechanics, early on to me, feel like they could lead to a considerable skill gap. Still, I'm struggling to see how they are going to be able to provide a lot of impact on matches?  As an add - I wish you could run your daily missions in that mode...  Just makes it hard to play and give up that daily reward, at least for me, if you don't play all that many matches or other events are going on?     I'll keep fiddling with them, but really don't see spending a lot of time in that mode.   There did seem to be a lot of players in it,   just not very many Subs, I suppose RNG needs a few more days to fill those among the population due to the crate drops?      

The original " line of sight " firing method in the Halloween mode was way better I got one shot off I don't even know where the torpedo went with this pinging crap, and your right it will be long learning curve and 3 weeks ain't come close.

cheers   

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1 hour ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Still can't access subs because some low IQ genius at WeeGee thought it would be smart to use a random bundle system.

Already know I won't have access to them tomorrow either.

I just might say F!@# IT to the whole mode and wait for them to be put in the regular client down the road.

Agree 100%.

The random system is, to borrow a trademark phrase, "killing the game and is not fun". 

I just want a taste of sub driving so I can make an informed opinion on them. I don't want to marathon 100 sub games in 3 days, only a dozen or two. I have other things that need my attention as well:

Could/should be doing Russian missions.

Could/should be doing ranked.

Could/should be doing clan battles.

Could/should be doing RB regrinds.

Could/should be doing latest personal missions.

 

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I've given Subs a few tries and either I'm missing something or this mode adds nothing to the battle at all. I spawn at one end of the map. The Hints tell me to stay away from DDs and cruisers but the only two BBs are 25km away.  So, I spend most of the battle trying to get closer to the BBs while trying to avoid everything else. I see a DD and I dive. A few seconds later my sub is destroyed. I score an outstanding zero damage and contribute nothing to my team. 

The above scenario becomes common. Sometimes I spawn in the middle. I get close enough (submerged) to a BB and can't get the darn homing system to work. I'm suppose to fire torpedoes first but there is a delay between each torpedo. I'm then suppose to use the homing targeting system. By the time I get to it my torpedoes are long gone. Why is this system in the game? 
When I think submarines I think about being submerged and viewing the enemy in periscope (like in the movies), calculating the speed, distance and angle and then firing at the enemy. This under water view makes no sense. Subs could not see under water.

Anyhow, my conclusion is that subs will have very little impact in battles and that they are boring as hell. There should be some type of training system as they have for tanks in WOT.   

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1 hour ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Already know I won't have access to them tomorrow either.

Same here

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Me circa 2000: Wow, this game has a cool new addition, I can't wait to try it!

Me circa 2020: Yeah I'm not your tester, see you in 3 - 6 months.

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I'll happily take the coal and wait on the subs.

It's pretty obvious they didn't want everyone to get the subs at the same time and I don't have any problem with the way they did it. It's 3 weeks rental, so the people that got them the first day won't have them the last week. And I probably will because with my luck I won't get the subs until the last day possible.

 

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7 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

I've given Subs a few tries and either I'm missing something or this mode adds nothing to the battle at all. I spawn at one end of the map. The Hints tell me to stay away from DDs and cruisers but the only two BBs are 25km away.  So, I spend most of the battle trying to get closer to the BBs while trying to avoid everything else. I see a DD and I dive. A few seconds later my sub is destroyed. I score an outstanding zero damage and contribute nothing to my team. 

The above scenario becomes common. Sometimes I spawn in the middle. I get close enough (submerged) to a BB and can't get the darn homing system to work. I'm suppose to fire torpedoes first but there is a delay between each torpedo. I'm then suppose to use the homing targeting system. By the time I get to it my torpedoes are long gone. Why is this system in the game? 
When I think submarines I think about being submerged and viewing the enemy in periscope (like in the movies), calculating the speed, distance and angle and then firing at the enemy. This under water view makes no sense. Subs could not see under water.

Anyhow, my conclusion is that subs will have very little impact in battles and that they are boring as hell. There should be some type of training system as they have for tanks in WOT.   

 

Well the homing system is the only way a sub is going to hit another sub with torpedoes when both can dive or rise easily to evade. I suspect that is why they have not removed it. Against surface ships, probably better to just use unguided unless the target goes broadside and you can ping them just before impact.

 

As for the underwater view, surface ships couldn't see enemy ships perfectly that only a teammate might have sight on, so it's not exactly unusual subs would have far better views of things than 'realistic' or 'historic'. Just like other ships in the game, they have very advanced sensor systems utilizing neutron detection arrays tied into their NTDS links, so yes, they can see underwater.

 

Finally, I suspect the token system is being used to limit how many players can run subs at a time, so there are 'normal' ships in the battles too. People enter submarine mode to play subs or fight against them. Not many will go into that mode in something that does neither, nor does a flood of players trying to run only subs help test them. Probably also why the tokens are rentals and not unlocks, so those players who get to run subs now won't be able to later.

 

My two cents.

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2 hours ago, iRA6E said:

I confess, tested them a very few games on PTS.  Probably 2-3 games. Just couldn't commit to it.     Tried it last night again after the Sub bundle dropped on my 1st roll.   So far it  feels like a long learning curve.  ................... I'm going to be honest.... wasn't much they could do from my view?     Subs seem pretty difficult to play honestly,  the mechanics, early on to me, feel like they could lead to a considerable skill gap......

I got the subs on my first drop as well, so I tried them.  I had played them on the PTS too, so I didn't go in blind.  I still feel that they are boring as heck, but there will be some that put in the time and get good in them, and that will create a big skill gap between most players and those unicums.  

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15 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

Well the homing system is the only way a sub is going to hit another sub with torpedoes when both can dive or rise easily to evade. I suspect that is why they have not removed it. Against surface ships, probably better to just use unguided unless the target goes broadside and you can ping them just before impact.

 

As for the underwater view, surface ships couldn't see enemy ships perfectly that only a teammate might have sight on, so it's not exactly unusual subs would have far better views of things than 'realistic' or 'historic'. Just like other ships in the game, they have very advanced sensor systems utilizing neutron detection arrays tied into their NTDS links, so yes, they can see underwater.

My two cents.

 
Pinging them before impact on surface ship can be very frustrating for the reason I already outlined. Unlike DDs you cannot fire two or four torpedoes at a time and then switch to pinging the targets. Each torp is fired separately with a delay before firing the next one. 

Secondly, you changed the subject. Subs were never equipped with any visual ability to see under water. The "advanced sensor systems" only gave them the ability to detect surface ships (and other subs), their direction and perhaps speed. It did not give them the ability to fire blindly at targets while submerged. They still needed visual confirmation (periscope). 
It's merely another gimmick in a game full of gimmicks 

Edited by STINKWEED_
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1 hour ago, thebigblue said:

Agree 100%.

The random system is, to borrow a trademark phrase, "killing the game and is not fun". 

I just want a taste of sub driving so I can make an informed opinion on them. I don't want to marathon 100 sub games in 3 days, only a dozen or two. I have other things that need my attention as well:

Could/should be doing Russian missions.

Could/should be doing ranked.

Could/should be doing clan battles.

Could/should be doing RB regrinds.

Could/should be doing latest personal missions.

 

I'm doing those "could/should" things you mentioned and putting my head in the sand about subs. I was part of the early testing and have come to dislike the way they are implemented - comms magic, homing torpedoes, unrealistic speeds (yes, it's an arcade game) - just too many gimmicks just to make them work. Bad form WG!

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The big mistake was imagining that DDs are not busy people with lots to think about already.

My battles so far, because I haven't been graced with subs to play, have been cruising around in DDs, fighting the surface ships as per usual. Twice I happened to notice a sub nearby and pressed G to throw the depth charges.

Truth be told, it wasn't important to me, either time. First time I was duelling another DD and his supporting cruiser bots, and the second time I was fighting 2 BBs and a DD.

I don't understand how the scenario comes about when the DD has so much free space and options that fighting a Submarine becomes a thing. You are only going to find subs in caps, and DDs in caps are busier than long tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs.

It needs it's own game mode, with scenarios that give the players time and space to enjoy the new paradigm and its novel mechanics.

It is the CV failure all over again. WG need to stuff everything into one sock, everything has to be in the one game mode. Gunboats can't just be gunboats, they have to share their space with aircraft, and now subs, while they try to be gunboats.

Social distancing, WG!

Edited by SidTheBlade
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2 hours ago, thebigblue said:

Could/should be doing Russian missions.

I am doing the Russian Missions.

Because of the bonus XP and credits I'll be finishing D3 with my next submarine battle.

 

Edited by Potohto928

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After talking to a few of my buds who are good players 58%+ win avs solo and over 60% division they are saying after they have played both PTS and this round of sub the skill gap will be huge. They were saying remember the skill gap in the old RTS CVs it will be a lot like that. Some really good players and the rest well.......

Edited by USMC2145
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25 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

 

Well the homing system is the only way a sub is going to hit another sub with torpedoes when both can dive or rise easily to evade. I suspect that is why they have not removed it. Against surface ships, probably better to just use unguided unless the target goes broadside and you can ping them just before impact.

 

As for the underwater view, surface ships couldn't see enemy ships perfectly that only a teammate might have sight on, so it's not exactly unusual subs would have far better views of things than 'realistic' or 'historic'. Just like other ships in the game, they have very advanced sensor systems utilizing neutron detection arrays tied into their NTDS links, so yes, they can see underwater.

 

Finally, I suspect the token system is being used to limit how many players can run subs at a time, so there are 'normal' ships in the battles too. People enter submarine mode to play subs or fight against them. Not many will go into that mode in something that does neither, nor does a flood of players trying to run only subs help test them. Probably also why the tokens are rentals and not unlocks, so those players who get to run subs now won't be able to later.

 

My two cents.

 

That's actually not correct. The only sub that can evade homing torps is the soviet sub (oh my, who would have expected that???). In the closed test phase we quickly figured out the best way to sink another sub was to shotgun the torp at minimum arming distance while your sub was at same depth as the enemy sub. It works 100% of the time. At longer range the soviet sub easily dodges any torpedoes with its ninja dive/climb plane rate. 

Against surface targets the homing ping is simply not functional. The fact you announce yourself as firing torps and draw to you every DD in proximity (and then die to it)  makes it a bad option.... citadel damage is not worth that. Particularly when you can just sneak in and be at periscope depth just outside of detection range (your underwater spotting range is far beyond your own detection range) and fire torps using the lead indicator. 

Targets have no indication torps are coming in until they basically are about to get hit by them. 4 sub torps (2 salvos of 2 torps) do more damage than a single 2-torp salvo doing citadel strike. While 2 citadel hit torps does do more damage the problem is that if your target has seen you pinging in map near it, it will point nose to you..and even BBs can dodge homing torps this way (there's a trick to it and it works 100% of the time). 

The only sub that can use the homing ping to its advantage is the USN sub. With 10km torps it can literally be far below periscope depth and too far from hostile DD's ability to rush to your location...and fire homing torps that will reach the surface and home on target. A BB or cruiser cannot point nose to a location 10kms away and remain that way for the long time it takes the torps to swim that direction (they get broadsided by other surface ships) and its unlikely players will notice the blip on the minimap 10kms away. 

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15 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

 
Pinging them before impact on surface ship can be very frustrating for the reason I already outlined. Unlike DDs you cannot fire two or four torpedoes at a time and then switch to pinging the targets. Each torp is fired separately with a delay before firing the next one. 

Secondly, you changed the subject. Subs were never equipped with any visual ability to see under water. The "advanced sensor systems" only gave them the ability to detect surface ships (and other subs), their direction and perhaps speed. It did not give them the ability to fire blindly at targets while submerged. They still needed visual confirmation (periscope). 
It's merely another gimmick in a game full of gimmicks 

 

Hmm. I'll have to test the pinging mechanic when I get home. However the difficulty in using the system is beside the point that it is there for a reason.

 

And, no. I didn't change the point. You simply don't understand sarcasm, nor the very pointlessness of your own argument that 'it didn't work that way in real life' ( which is what you said in a nutshell, even if you didn't realize you were doing so) in a game that has always been set up in a way that 'didn't work that way in real life'. I was simply providing context as to how subs work with the same super technology given to every other ship type in the game, and has been since the game began.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Jakob_Knight said:

Hmm. I'll have to test the pinging mechanic when I get home. However the difficulty in using the system is beside the point that it is there for a reason.

 

And, no. I didn't change the point. You simply don't understand sarcasm, nor the very pointlessness of your own argument that 'it didn't work that way in real life' ( which is what you said in a nutshell, even if you didn't realize you were doing so) in a game that has always been set up in a way that 'didn't work that way in real life'. I was simply providing context as to how subs work with the same super technology given to every other ship type in the game, and has been since the game began.

I would have preferred if the Sub mechanics were more like Silent Hunter. Sure, you have sensors when submerged but you can only aim and fire torpedoes while in periscope mode or when submerged and working canon/s (submerged). I find the current system boring. 

All the Baby Boomers grew up watching WW2 naval flicks and playing coin arcade game where you look through a periscope and try to hit enemy ships. Now, that's fun!

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So when are we going to get a submarine that could keep up with and chase after Kleber and Marceau with 50+ knot of speed underwater?  ;-) 

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3 minutes ago, Vector03 said:

I'm sure subs will be perfectly balanced and a perfect addition to the game.

:Smile_teethhappy:

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37 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

After talking to a few of my buds who are good players 58%+ win avs solo and over 60% division they are saying after they have played both PTS and this round of sub the skill gap will be huge. They were saying remember the skill gap in the old RTS CVs it will be a lot like that. Some really good players and the rest well.......

Correct, it will be a long learning curve for some and other will just be good like the guy below. He has a bunch of vids up kicking butt in all. 

 

Edited by Gospel_
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