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The_Kamchatka

Submarine Live Testing: Day 1 "First Impressions"

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Ships used/Games played:

CA: Pensacola/2                   BB: Fuso/5, New Mexico (Stock Configuration)/5

CL: Dallas/2

 

I am posting here my thoughts on submarines:

Interactions with Subs:

                           -CA: Minimal 

                                   Since heavy cruisers lack way to directly damage submarines below periscope depth, direct interaction was limited to dodging torpedoes when directly interacting with submarines. The presence of a submarine did not otherwise alter my usual heavy cruiser play (Defend friendly destroyers from cruisers and enemy destroyers)                               

                           - BB: Minimal 

                                   Battleships lack any way to directly damage submarines below periscope depth and are thus limited to dodging torpedoes when directly interacting with submarines. Otherwise my usual battleship play was not altered. (Backing up cruisers and destroyers at important points or flanks, observing enemy position especially torpedo sources, aggressive use of WASD hacks).

                           - CL: Minimal

                                   Access to Depth Charges did not directly impact my usual light cruiser play, as the risk of death chasing a sub is too great until the game has been decided. Of course being one of the few non-destroyer classes that can damage subs and being equipped with hydroacoustic search, makes survival extremely important. (Island camping/open water action, destroyer hunting, burning down battleships)

 

Submarines (damage, threat, issues):

                            - Dumb fire and standard homing torpedoes seem to be equivalent in damage to air dropped torpedoes. 

                             - To my knowledge, I have not yet suffered a citadel hit, so I have no remarks as of yet.

                            - Subs are another torpedo source,  going bow in appears to work.

                            - Subs are very slow when submerged, and it is unlikely that they will move far from their last sighted position.

                            - If a sub rises into the bottom of an enemy vessel, it is considered a ram. The sub typically loses.

                            - Cruisers and destroyers have an easier time dodging homing torpedoes as their speed an maneuverability can mess with the torpedoes' tracking.

                            - Battleships seem to be able to dodge torpedoes that are launched from 4 km with little difficulty, provided the battleship is bow in.

                            - At 2 km, at least one torpedo is practically guaranteed if the sub surfaces and fires into a bow in battleship.

                            - It seems possible to bait homing torpedoes fired at a broadside to overshoot when in a battleship (more testing required).

                            - There does not appear to be an indicator to notify the player that they have been pinged.

                           - Most submarine captains only contribution to a match was destroyer spotting.

                           

Closing thoughts:

                       I observed most sub victims were generally in open water and already vulnerable, although this is likely a consequence of the fresh release and questionable decisions by ship captains. Submarines did not seem to have a major influence on the match EXCEPT when they are interacting with destroyers. The spotting mechanics between destroyers and subs appear quite troublesome and can put destroyers in horribly vulnerable positions (provided the destroyer didn't yolo to begin with.). Destroyer can be spotted in smoke by submarines due to the nature of if their expected interaction, and I expect that I will find more issues when I test destroyers later.The remaining  surface ship play did not seem notably different from normal until the match had reached endgame. The inability for battleships and heavy cruisers to damage submarines is concerning as it leaves them with no options to eliminate submarines if all depth charge equipped ships have been sunk (which is fairly common even in random battles). While actually adapting to the presence of a submarine does not appear to be difficult, the fact that dedicated ASW weapons are only available to fragile and high-priority-target vessels is an issue that must be addressed if submarines are ever expected to be released as a permanent addition to live servers.

 

Other observations:

                         - Entire teams will lemming in the direction of a sighted submarines. (Likely due to "first day on release" hype. Hopefully this will stop.)                       

                         - Complacent CV's can be killed, but the sub has to run a gauntlet of ships to do so. By the time the sub is in torpedo range, the match is usually decided.

                         - There is an unusually high number of carrier players in submarine battle.

                         - If entering submarine battle, expect to see lots of torpedoes. 

                         - Most people are having trouble using the sub to its full potential.

                         - Some people don't read the news :P.

                        - Subs have not improved minimap awareness. 

Addition Information:

This is the first in a planned series of posts that will run the entire length of the submarine event. My hope is that these posts will be an important resource for the community to use when deciding how the feel about they new ship class.The next post will be my thoughts on games played in carriers and destroyers.

This is also my first post on a forum ever, so please excuse any errors and notify me of anything that I could do to improve the quality of the post.

In addition, I am a relatively new player (with about 1000 total games played) and I have not yet learned how to play each ship class optimally. As such I am ignorant of a lot of ship specific information which might have an important impact on the developing role of submarines in game. So understand that my view of this new ship class might be skewed or completely ignorant of a larger issue.

 

Thanks for the read and mind the torpedoes!

Edited by The_Kamchatka
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8 minutes ago, The_Kamchatka said:

Ships used:

CA: Pensacola                   BB: Fuso, New Mexico (Stock Configuration)

CL: Dallas 

 

I am posting here my thoughts on submarines:

Interactions with Subs:

 

Why take any of those ships, they do not have ASW?

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I've only encountered subs in  DD, and they seem pretty easy to kill. Once you spot a sub, go bow-on and charge, hit the G button to drop depth charges and collect your kill. So not sure what it's like to drive a sub yet -- but seems you need to be more cunning than what I've seen so far. Perhaps resist the temptation to go solo and stay near DD support as they advance, or swing away from the pack and try to come in from a flank against a capship with no DD escort.

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Just now, _cthulhu_ said:

Why take any of those ships, they do not have ASW?

Dallas is equipped with depth charges.

I selected these ships because I wanted to get a feel for how submarines effect the game play of surface vessels. They were also the only ships I have currently available at tier 6. 

Please note that, I accidentally submitted my post early. I'm am currently reediting it.

 

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Just now, The_Kamchatka said:

Dallas is equipped with depth charges.

I selected these ships because I wanted to get a feel for how submarines effect the game play of surface vessels. They were also the only ships I have currently available at tier 6. 

Please note that, I accidentally submitted my post early. I'm am currently reediting it.

 

No worries. I didnt know the dallas has those.

Your only recourse with no asw is to run and hope you can get away.

I just played and we had a good fight, I got the indicator that a sub was near but was too busy fighting aggressive red DDs to do anything about it.

At the end there was only a red sub and QE left.

Out of no where at our cap a BB was suddenly sunk.

Good counter play for him I reckon...

 

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It's good for grinding, grinding my Gnevny and enjoying the ride. 

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Rubbish game design, even by WG standards.

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I don't understand why they must allow every ship type to spot for the entire team. Its beyond stupid. Get rid of subs ability to spot DDs submerged, they should be under radio silence.

 

While your at it get rid of cvs spotting to for the team.

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19 minutes ago, mofton said:

Rubbish game design, even by WG standards.

The CV rework was the "jump the shark" episode of the game and now we're onto the "cousin oliver" with subs.  Sadly, there's no laugh track..... :(

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Got them on the first day. Played the German and US ones. 

Subs are the weakest class in the game and the fear about them ruining the game should be quelled. A sub game for BB's and cruisers is just like random with a new class of weaker DD's. Only DD's meaningfully interact with the subs and DD's can kill subs at will once they see them once that's by gun on the surface or by depth charge beneath it.

Subs are incredibly realistic and this helped contextualize all the battles I read about where ships could survive so many torpedos from them. Makes total sense they were used to raid merchant shipping and had to scatter at the first sight of resistance(or had to be used in a "wolf pack" formation). Also makes total sense how they almost never sunk BB's in either world war(except Pre Dreadnoughts which despite how badly I want them in the game were helpless in their own special way). If anyone wonders why the Germans didn't use their gigantic fleet(of even weaker )U-Boats in WWI to even the numbers game with the RN, this mode shows why. Subs are MUCH weaker than DD's and were designed to attack ships that could not fight back. 

What's cool is seeing underwater specifically wrecks. I normally bemoan temporary game modes can't get invested in something that's going to be taken away but got to agree with WG on making this temporary. Subs are clearly an unfinished products, as is IMO there is almost zero reason to play this class once the novelty wears off. 

Edited by Aristotle83
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3 minutes ago, Slumlord_Dasboot said:

I don't understand why they must allow every ship type to spot for the entire team. Its beyond stupid. Get rid of subs ability to spot DDs submerged, they should be under radio silence.

 

While your at it get rid of cvs spotting to for the team.

Yep. Just got killed in Gnevny that way.

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1 hour ago, Slumlord_Dasboot said:

they should be under radio silence.

Actually...technically...all radios are considered to be Radio Loud as opposed to Radio Silent as they would need to be in order to recieve spotting data from the team.

But that thought adds a potential option to have a radio silent mode (for all ships) where you get better detection at the cost of no ability to see other ships (on mini map last known position would be all that was seeable while active) including your teammates...unless you are directly able to spot them.

Active at any time during the match w/a toggle button to turn on & off (Like the P key for 2ndaries & AA).

(-: I can hear all the Kagero sisters drooling at this idea :-)

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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Today in sub Mode I realice that Radio position Finder only shows nearest surface vessel, I was Deep charging in my french DD and u-69 spoted by an Ally sonar, I know where he was, but my radio signal show the vector from a distant unspoted enemy DD.

The last also apolies for a SS with radio position.

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Subs are a great addition!

I played at least 15 games in it yesterday.  Absolutely outrageous fun whether as a DD or as a sub.  The sub load was about 2-3 most games with a few ones.  Drove it on the surface as a slow DD, tried to spot and cap, exciting chases, stupid errors, only 1-2 BBs per game so the cruisers actually played as opposed to hiding all game.  I saw very little [edited].  Everyone was enjoying themselves or at least was positive about it.  If they want to keep it as a separate mode, that's fine.  As a DD player, I enjoyed that as much if not more than subs.  Rarely worried about attempting to cap since we all went in together and it turns into a scrap among all the ships, and the battles were fierce for the caps as opposed to the hide in back.   This mode will not break the game; it may save it for many. And the Soviet subs existed; awesome I can play a Soviet ship that was deployed and had real combat not made of paper to bring the RU players back.

Speed is quite balanced--speed is less than DDs or most cruisers even on surface.  It could catch up to most BBs on surface but only if they are alone, and I made it through the screen. 

My torps are good but not amazing.

Battery power mechanic is balanced.  I've pinged and ran out of power.  1/4 power/speed won't get you out of anything.  Had an enemy sub move in--he had battery power; I didn't.  It ended with me dead as it should.

DD's and Cruisers don't fear me but respect me.  They are both my adversaries; I can get lucky but it is heavily balanced in their favor.  BB's should generally avoid me but shouldn't they be afraid of at least one ship type?  The DD's are scary for BBs is a lie since they've nerfed them so bad with CVs, radar, visibility/detection nerfs (Kleber), etc.  Nothing scares a BB even cruisers behind isles slinging HE and they're not scared, just annoyed.  Every other ship type has a nemesis.

If you're a BB main, I can understand why you may not like it as much since it is action-oriented as opposed to stay in rear and shoot at others like a carnival arcade with slow moving ducks.  I keep seeing the "boring as hell" label applied; and it must be a play style thing since I have yet to be bored nor can I see either players acting bored while knife fighting, trying to cap, trying to kill enemy subs (which is an amazing sub plot inside game), etc.

Subs are a great addition!

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So far so good. WG has a done a great job of working the sub gameplay out slowly. Playing against the subs is pretty easy if you understand their limitations. Playing the subs is fun with a good amount of tension. I still pretty much suck with them lol. Getting better.

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18 hours ago, The_Kamchatka said:

 

+1 for Name/Avartar of the most ridiculous ship ever. :Smile_medal:

 

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Ok, finally got in several games with the various subs.

My impressions:

  1.  The controls are backwards 1 = ping and 2 = torps
  2.  Damn hard to hit anything. Watched the video several times on pinging the bow and stern.  So you spend most of your time after the first couple of torps hiding from DDs.
  3. No deck gun.  It's displayed, just not usable.
  4. I think people will try it out, then bail once they see how useless they really are in this game.
  5. Damage of torps equal those from planes.  It's your only weapon and you do minimal damage.
  6. Russian sub is damn fast +26 knots on the surface. 

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