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Taichunger

What can WG do to make the sub experience better?

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Just got out of this match in Sub games in my Gnevy (2077 base XP). It's easy to see that once subs arrive I won't be playing much DD anymore. Getting nailed by the Sky Griefer while having to make two runs on the sub -- taking 16 depth charges to kill it -- and being detected the whole time for any surface ship to shoot at me and the sub is torpedoing me -- is simply going to reduce the survivability of DDs even further. Moreover, each time I get in a DD I'm going to have to choose between attacking a sub and taking tons of damage from the red Sky Parasite and its teammates while being detected, or staying silent and risking the cruisers and battleships behind me. 

Things WG can do...

1. Change the MM so that subs and CVs cannot be in the same matches. It is easy to see, as my clan mate predicted, how a CV driver and a sub, working in tandem, could bait out the DD so the CV can kill it. The extra burden on the DD is too much.

2. Give ALL DDs smoke by increasing the number of smokes by 1 or 2 and reducing their cooldown time. Why on earth would anyone play a French DD in these circumstances? Without smoke there is no way to hide or disengage.

3. Hedgehogs so subs can be killed from a greater distance, preferably outside the air detect range of the DD.

4. Give DDs from T6 and up a heal to mitigate damage taken when attacking subs.

More suggestions?

Can't wait til the gimmick subs get introduced. You know, the ones with the moronic gimmicks that enable them to kill DDs more effectively....
 

Edited by Taichunger
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9 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

unknown.png?width=1204&height=677

Just got out of this match in Sub games in my Gnevy (2077 base XP). It's easy to see that once subs arrive I won't be playing much DD anymore. Getting nailed by the Sky Griefer while having to make two runs on the sub -- taking 16 depth charges to kill it -- and being detected the whole time for any surface ship to shoot at me and the sub is torpedoing me -- is simply going to reduce the survivability of DDs even further. Moreover, each time I get in a DD I'm going to have to choose between attacking a sub and taking tons of damage from the red Sky Parasite and its teammates while being detected, or staying silent and risking the cruisers and battleships behind me. 

Things WG can do...

1. Change the MM so that subs and CVs cannot be in the same matches. It is easy to see, as my clan mate predicted, how a CV driver and a sub, working in tandem, could bait out the DD so the CV can kill it. The extra burden on the DD is too much.

2. Give ALL DDs smoke by increasing the number of smokes by 1 or 2 and reducing their cooldown time. Why on earth would anyone play a French DD in these circumstances? Without smoke there is no way to hide or disengage.

3. Hedgehogs so subs can be killed from a greater distance, preferably outside the air detect range of the DD.

4. Give DDs from T6 and up a heal to mitigate damage taken when attacking subs.

More suggestions?

Can't wait til the gimmick subs get introduced. You know, the ones with the moronic gimmicks that enable them to kill DDs more effectively....
 

You sank a Sub !!!!! :Smile_great: I played 4 matches first one in The Perth, was just about to strike with depth charges against a Sub I was hunting but got nailed by there CV:Smile_teethhappy:

Still it was fun for me, the game was utter chaos as people forget to shoot at the real players in surface ships first as this game was half full of BOTS on each side and focused on the Bots.

The other 3 matches its still Subs sunk zero, going to try my luck today.

But I agree a lot bugs to iron out in this mode.

WG shot themselves in the foot with this ridiculous opening, 500 surface ships and 1 Sub in queue, hope there are more Subs out today. 

Good Hunting Sir   

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Simple. Make submarine torpedoes only able to hit CVs. Then the rest of us can have some fun.

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How about going back to some 'realism' instead of 'arcadism'.

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What can WG do to make the sub experience better?

Cancel them.

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11 hours ago, Antean said:

How about going back to some 'realism' instead of 'arcadism'.

That's not going to happen. The slope is slippery and WGing has a major supply of 3 in 1 oil. 

Edited by Mykawa
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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

3. Hedgehogs so subs can be killed from a greater distance, preferably outside the air detect range of the DD.

Tai and EP somewhat agreeing on something?!?

What’s next?!?

Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse.jpg

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Can't wait til the gimmick subs get introduced. You know, the ones with the moronic gimmicks that enable them to kill DDs more effectively...

I-401 spotter planes and Sorcouf 2 x 203mm shooting from behind an island...

Edited by Estimated_Prophet
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59 minutes ago, tm63au said:

You sank a Sub !!!!! :Smile_great: I played 4 matches first one in The Perth, was just about to strike with depth charges against a Sub I was hunting but got nailed by there CV:Smile_teethhappy:

Still it was fun for me, the game was utter chaos as people forget to shoot at the real players in surface ships first as this game was half full of BOTS on each side and focused on the Bots.

The other 3 matches its still Subs sunk zero, going to try my luck today.

But I agree a lot bugs to iron out in this mode.

WG shot themselves in the foot with this ridiculous opening, 500 surface ships and 1 Sub in queue, hope there are more Subs out today. 

Good Hunting Sir   

Saw three subs in the last match. Pretty much showed how Randoms is going to be crapped on by subs. I hope the devs come to their senses and keep this sub mode, permanently. 
 

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Just now, Taichunger said:

Saw three subs in the last match. Pretty much showed how Randoms is going to be crapped on by subs. I hope the devs come to their senses and keep this sub mode, permanently. 
 

Another can of worms is this - they can make a mode specifically to include subs - Why not CVs?

Seems like the coding is already done...

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I've only encountered subs while playing a  DD, and they seem pretty easy to kill. Once you spot a sub, go bow-on and charge, hit the G button to drop depth charges and collect your kill. Played 4 sub games, scored 3 kills. In the game where I failed, I got target locked on a sub I'd spotted and got nuked by an opposing team Leander. So not sure what it's like to drive a sub yet -- but seems you need to be more cunning than what I've seen so far. Perhaps resist the temptation to go solo and stay near DD support as they advance, or swing away from the pack and try to come in from a flank against a capship with no DD escort.

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Just now, EasyEight said:

I've only encountered subs while playing a  DD, and they seem pretty easy to kill. Once you spot a sub, go bow-on and charge, hit the G button to drop depth charges and collect your kill. Played 4 sub games, scored 3 kills. In the game where I failed, I got target locked on a sub I'd spotted and got nuked by an opposing team Leander. So not sure what it's like to drive a sub yet -- but seems you need to be more cunning than what I've seen so far. Perhaps resist the temptation to go solo and stay near DD support as they advance, or swing away from the pack and try to come in from a flank against a capship with no DD escort.

Nope. Sat atop a Cachalot for three rounds of depth charges, 18 hits, only got 2/3 of its health. In a serious Random match, I would have been food for whoever was in range. This mechanic is stupid beyond belief.....

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Nope. Sat atop a Cachalot for three rounds of depth charges, 18 hits, only got 2/3 of its health. In a serious Random match, I would have been food for whoever was in range. This mechanic is stupid beyond belief.....

Huh, OK -- that's not been my experience so far. At each kill the subs have all been trying to run, which is silly, then I matched course and drove right over the top and spammed out depth charges -- bam bam bam bam dead. 4 Hits sees to do it. Seemed so simple, so it's puzzling to hear people find it harder than I've experienced. Seems like it would suck to play a sub since they die so fast.

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24 minutes ago, EasyEight said:

Huh, OK -- that's not been my experience so far. At each kill the subs have all been trying to run, which is silly, then I matched course and drove right over the top and spammed out depth charges -- bam bam bam bam dead. 4 Hits sees to do it. Seemed so simple, so it's puzzling to hear people find it harder than I've experienced. Seems like it would suck to play a sub since they die so fast.

I think sub drivers havent figured out how to do that. They are all new, after all. I expect subs to get a round of buffs after this, and then be introduced into Randoms two patches from now. 

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IMO(i got subs today),Subs are going to have to be buffed. The reason it's doable is many of the buffs that will help would specifically effect DD's. IMO there's lots of room between broken and not being all but dead the moment a DD sees you. DD's make submarines unplayable IMO as it currently stands, novelty aside. 

a)Most important IMO a deck gun like they had in real life(and have in the game in terms of design). The real life guns are weak af but against DD's they aren't worthless either. 

b)The DD depth charge has to be nerfed in some way. Cool down time, a limit of how many, I don't know but as it stands that ability is just broken. It needs to exist to make underwater subs killable I understand but it's too powerful. 

c)Their underwater speed needs to be increased either to their surface speed or somewhere in between that and their current underwater speed. Cause given how fast DD's are the moment they see you catching you and depth charging you is easy af. It just seems like it's virtually impossible for a sub to survive once it reaches that point IMO. Torping a DD that can go twice as fast is far more of a challenge. 

d)They need torpedos that are more than a fraction of DD's output. DD's didn't have the torpedo spread IRL they have in WOWS, it's just that spread is necessary to make them playable. I'm all for historical realism(consider myself a hardliner on that) but the submarines 2 torpedos is just a joke against cruisers and battleships compared to the DD/BB torps they've been facing for years. The same tradeoff neccessary for DD's to be brought into the game should be made for subs. Not saying they need to have as many torps as a DD but 2 is designed to sink merchant ships they were hunting IRL not warships that aren't seriously damaged. 

Also aware other subs were tested than this tier and have no idea how that would change my opinion.

Edited by Aristotle83
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I think that one thing people are not going to realize is how much of a nerf subs are going to be to destroyers.

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1 hour ago, EasyEight said:

Huh, OK -- that's not been my experience so far. At each kill the subs have all been trying to run, which is silly, then I matched course and drove right over the top and spammed out depth charges -- bam bam bam bam dead. 4 Hits sees to do it. Seemed so simple, so it's puzzling to hear people find it harder than I've experienced. Seems like it would suck to play a sub since they die so fast.

Right now most sub drivers are like noob cruiser drivers sailing broadside to a BB and wondering why they die, I predict once the player base gets better at them they will become terrors.

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14 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I think that one thing people are not going to realize is how much of a nerf subs are going to be to destroyers.

Many of us have be saying this.  Over and over.  It is easy to game it out in one's head and see what will happen.

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6 hours ago, Prothall said:

Simple. Make submarine torpedoes only able to hit CVs. Then the rest of us can have some fun.

While you're at it, make destroyers guns unable to shoot in smoke, so the rest of us can have some fun too.

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Remove the whole sub idea from the game. 

     This is a game and no ship should be invulnerable to attack because that's not fair or enjoyable to other players.

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5 hours ago, Lady_Athena said:

While you're at it, make destroyers guns unable to shoot in smoke, so the rest of us can have some fun too.

I agree and I was a DD main.

I always felt smoke should be a defensive tool and not an offensive one.

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Only time I've been able to attack a sub unmolested is when there was an island between my ship and the Red Fleet.  Otherwise. I've been sunk every time a sub spots me.  Not exactly smart game design having a submerged sub provide spotting details to Red Fleet ships 10-20 km distant. 

 

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7 hours ago, enderland07 said:

I think that one thing people are not going to realize is how much of a nerf subs are going to be to destroyers.

I played a lot of DD in Sub mode yesterday and I agree.  Not only a nerf but how you play a DD will change significantly.

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14 minutes ago, ClassicLib said:

I played a lot of DD in Sub mode yesterday and I agree.  Not only a nerf but how you play a DD will change significantly.

That seems to be the only thing WG can effectively do with updates... change how DD players have to play.

Change CVs... dd players have to adapt

Add subs... dd players have to adapt

Meanwhile, no other class type has had to do anything differently.  Well.. except now with subs, BBs will just die faster to citadel homing torps.

NOTE:  To those "having trouble" pinging.... stop lying in your forum posts.  It doesn't take 2 brain cells to keep your target pinged.  This is the EASIEST ship type to play... its absolutely stupid that these things were released.  I'm just trying to decide whether or not I leave the game when these go into normal mode, or just spend every moment in this game making others in BBs and non-hydro cruisers rage by wiping them off the map with impunity.

Edited by Eckarbeiter
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14 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Just got out of this match in Sub games in my Gnevy (2077 base XP). It's easy to see that once subs arrive I won't be playing much DD anymore. Getting nailed by the Sky Griefer while having to make two runs on the sub -- taking 16 depth charges to kill it -- and being detected the whole time for any surface ship to shoot at me and the sub is torpedoing me -- is simply going to reduce the survivability of DDs even further. Moreover, each time I get in a DD I'm going to have to choose between attacking a sub and taking tons of damage from the red Sky Parasite and its teammates while being detected, or staying silent and risking the cruisers and battleships behind me. 

Things WG can do...

1. Change the MM so that subs and CVs cannot be in the same matches. It is easy to see, as my clan mate predicted, how a CV driver and a sub, working in tandem, could bait out the DD so the CV can kill it. The extra burden on the DD is too much.

2. Give ALL DDs smoke by increasing the number of smokes by 1 or 2 and reducing their cooldown time. Why on earth would anyone play a French DD in these circumstances? Without smoke there is no way to hide or disengage.

3. Hedgehogs so subs can be killed from a greater distance, preferably outside the air detect range of the DD.

4. Give DDs from T6 and up a heal to mitigate damage taken when attacking subs.

More suggestions?

Can't wait til the gimmick subs get introduced. You know, the ones with the moronic gimmicks that enable them to kill DDs more effectively....
 

Subs and carriers created "death zones" for the DD's attempting to kill subs.  In my limited experience, I saw two DD's lured into open water and annihilated by the carrier.  DD's can't fight carriers at some tiers....  And, the spotting mechanics seemed to loose for my liking.   Another dissimilar weapon on a small, time compressed map, IME, only created chaos and my experience so far produced a one sided stomp........  And, I was in my Fabuki and in the very end, was carrier annihilated once again no matter what I did !!!  Planes heal and DD's don't...........so they win 100% of the time because you can't hide from them !!!  OP, point 4 is where I was. 

Too early to cry "no Joy" yet and I hope @Hapa_Fodder and his posse take the time to read what we are saying.......

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