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Chezik

An experiment in getting better

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Flambass' recent video on what he thinks is wrong with the game has me thinking. For those who haven't seen it the TL:DR version is it's too easy to advance through the tech tree, and people aren't learning game mechanics, maps, ship characteristics, etc before reaching T10.

I know for a fact I'm one of those people. I've only got about 1700 random battles (and a bunch of coop, some operations, and a few ranked) under my belt but am sitting on multiple T10s. And hoo boy, am I bad. My gunnery is terrible, my awareness lacking, I've no idea how high tier maps work, and I can't effectively destroy enemy ships. My play at tier 8 and higher is simply atrocious and I often end up frustrated. Not because I'm losing (a lot) but because I personally am putting out terrible results and can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

The ship I'm best in is the Scharnhorst. Why? Because it's the one I have the most overall battles in. I have a pretty decent idea of what I'm fighting, I understand the gunnery and armor scheme, I can see good/bad matchups on the map, and I can estimate how long it takes to flex.

With that preface out of the way I've decided to conduct an experiment. I'm going to reset a line and actually grind. I'm going to play each ship, without shortcuts, until I'm back at T10. I'm going to learn the ships and tiers and maps inside and out. And when one is done I aim to work on the next.

Why would I do this? Because there's no incentive for me to go back and play ships in previous tiers knowing I already have the next one unlocked with all modules with no idea how to play it. Because maybe if I start over on a line I enjoyed I can actually take the time to learn how to play. I've skipped through so much in pursuit of T10 that it's less fun to play than the low tiers when I was frustrated with the grind.

Any pieces of advice for this mad scheme? Is this a worthwhile endeavor or  am I just wasting my time?

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I would probably not choose to regrind but to play a single ship until you feel good at it. A lot of people don't realize how hard it is to bounce between different ships (even when you are really good at the game) because of the nuanced differences.

If you have a few ships that you like, pick one and play it repeatedly until you get a better feel for how it handles and are more comfortable with aiming. 

And after every game, identify at least 1 mistake you made that you can try to avoid making again. This is probably the most important part of the entire process. Repeating bad mistakes in a regrind won't magically make you better.

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Playing a single ship or grinding a line without free xp are both great starts. Scharnhorst gives a reasonable feel for German bbs. I free xp one ship and it was the fdg back in the day. GK was my first tier 10 and I was not ready for the jump from 8-10. I was awful. After that I never did it again, short of maybe a hull upgrade once in a while. GLHF

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11 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

I would probably not choose to regrind but to play a single ship until you feel good at it. A lot of people don't realize how hard it is to bounce between different ships (even when you are really good at the game) because of the nuanced differences.

If you have a few ships that you like, pick one and play it repeatedly until you get a better feel for how it handles and are more comfortable with aiming. 

And after every game, identify at least 1 mistake you made that you can try to avoid making again. This is probably the most important part of the entire process. Repeating bad mistakes in a regrind won't magically make you better.

The hope is that the mistake was using FXP to jump over large portions of the grind. I'll give you an example, I used FXP to jump straight from the Fuso to the Yamato. Huge mistake. On the soviet BB line I went from T5 to T10 with FXP. I did FXP the FDG, but I had played through the German BB line up through the Bismarck (some FXP was used but each ship got a few battles). Again with American CL, I had the Cleaveland when the line split and jumped right to the Wooster, and I did the same thing with the German CA line from the Hindenburg. I just unlocked the Iowa but that was through skipping the Colorado and using FXP to unlock the modules on the NC, along with camo/signals. I think I have maybe 25 games in the NC, not nearly enough to learn the ship or the peculiarities of the guns, which if I had played the Colorado I'd have a decent feel for. My gunnery in the NC is trash because I don't understand the guns. I also, way back when it was available, grabbed a Missouri, played a few battles, sucked terribly, and it's a port queen now.

The reason I'm considering this is because of the RB points, which should act as an incentive to actually do the grinds. I want to get better at the game. I really, really like the game. But the thought of going backwards without some concrete reward just doesn't sit well with me.

9 minutes ago, ditka_Fatdog said:

Playing a single ship or grinding a line without free xp are both great starts. Scharnhorst gives a reasonable feel for German bbs. I free xp one ship and it was the fdg back in the day. GK was my first tier 10 and I was not ready for the jump from 8-10. I was awful. After that I never did it again, short of maybe a hull upgrade once in a while. GLHF

I thoroughly enjoyed the German BB line up through the Bismarck. When I skipped the FDG it really wasn't in a good spot. The IFHE changes make it a much better ship I think. I love the GK, I'm just not good with it because I haven't fully grasped the mechanics/play style of high tiers before getting there.

 

Thanks for the advice folks!

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Matches at lower tiers are definitely less brutal, making it easier to practice. But not everyone can figure out what their mistakes are just by trial and error, particularly in a game with RNG mechanics and 12 v 12 randomized MM. I definitely couldn't. Every time I got a new ship I went to YouTube and watched gameplay commentaries. Sometimes it didn't work and I went back and watched more commentaries. 

So the algorithm I would recommend is:

  • Watch beginner, how-to-play tutorials to make sure you understand the basics.
  • Pick a tier 5-7 ship that you had poor performance on.
  • Watch videos on how she plays, paying close attention to the mini map.
  • Keep playing and learning until your results improve.
    • Focus more on performance metrics (damage, kills, caps, base XP, survival, tanking, spotting...etc) than on win rate since winning/losing streaks are possible on a small number of games.
  • Once you feel content with your performance, either move to a different ship in the same tier or the same line but one higher tier.
  • Rinse and repeat.

 

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I’m an average player so there are far more knowledgeable people around here, but I think I’ve made progress.

A few of the things I’ve done:

- Never hurry a line, while I’ve used some FXP to speed up some research, I’ve never used FXP to skip a ship.

- Take your time, there is no hurry, when I first reached T8, I noticed that I wasn’t good enough yet, so I grinded several lines to T8 before moving forward. To this date I’m nearing just my 5th T10.

- Are you familiar with the concepts of angling and overmatch?

- Situational awareness and map control come only with experience, just keep an eye on the mini map often, it will come second nature.

Edit:

You can also send replays to @Lord_Zath and he’ll give you constructive criticism on what are you doing.

Edited by CO_Valle
Lord Zath

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7 minutes ago, Baritone4 said:

Matches at lower tiers are definitely less brutal, making it easier to practice. But not everyone can figure out what their mistakes are just by trial and error, particularly in a game with RNG mechanics and 12 v 12 randomized MM. I definitely couldn't. Every time I got a new ship I went to YouTube and watched gameplay commentaries. Sometimes it didn't work and I went back and watched more commentaries. 

So the algorithm I would recommend is:

  • Watch beginner, how-to-play tutorials to make sure you understand the basics.
  • Pick a tier 5-7 ship that you had poor performance on.
  • Watch videos on how she plays, paying close attention to the mini map.
  • Keep playing and learning until your results improve.
    • Focus more on performance metrics (damage, kills, caps, base XP, survival, tanking, spotting...etc) than on win rate since winning/losing streaks are possible on a small number of games.
  • Once you feel content with your performance, either move to a different ship in the same tier or the same line but one higher tier.
  • Rinse and repeat.

 

 

6 minutes ago, CO_Valle said:

I’m an average player so there are far more knowledgeable people around here, but I think I’ve made progress.

A few of the things I’ve done:

- Never hurry a line, while I’ve used some FXP to speed up some research, I’ve never used FXP to skip a ship.

- Take your time, there is no hurry, when I first reached T8, I noticed that I wasn’t good enough yet, so I grinded several lines to T8 before moving forward. To this date I’m nearing just my 5th T10.

- Are you familiar with the concepts of angling and overmatch?

- Situational awareness and map control come only with experience, just keep an eye on the mini map often, it will come second nature.

I think that's the part that's most frustrating for me, I understand the actual game mechanics. I know HOW it works, I know which ships can bow tank, which ships to angle, which ships can pen my deck with or without IFHE, which ships I can do that to, which ships have turtlebacks vs spaced armor vs hull citadels, which ships have above waterline citadels, spotting mechanics, and which ships to aim at the snout bow on or wait for them to present upper belt armor. I just can't seem put this knowledge into practice.

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I should clarify, the reason I want to regrind through the RB is because of the changes to UU. I have the missions unlocked for the Yamoto, the GK, and the Conqueror so I'll probably be holding off on them but the Kremin and the Wooster lines are ones I really need to learn and hope to earn enough points. Hope that helps understand my reasoning.

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Regrinding the lines is fine to get the UU in the RB. But first you should drop down to T4/5 and focus on the game mechanics you need to learn. Based on your prior comments I'm going to assume you are a BB main. So work on:

Aiming

Situational awareness

Tanking damages

Usage of Damage Control and Repair Party

Not sitting at max range

WASD and changing speeds so you're not easy to torp

Surviving battles

Once you can do that and are earning good XP move up to T6 and repeat. Don't rush up the line just to get to the UU.

If you do it properly it will pay off in spades. I would know as my first year in this game was spent as a total potato and then I decided to drop down and figure out what I was doing wrong.

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36 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Regrinding the lines is fine to get the UU in the RB. But first you should drop down to T4/5 and focus on the game mechanics you need to learn. Based on your prior comments I'm going to assume you are a BB main. So work on:

Aiming

Situational awareness

Tanking damages

Usage of Damage Control and Repair Party

Not sitting at max range

WASD and changing speeds so you're not easy to torp

Surviving battles

Once you can do that and are earning good XP move up to T6 and repeat. Don't rush up the line just to get to the UU.

If you do it properly it will pay off in spades. I would know as my first year in this game was spent as a total potato and then I decided to drop down and figure out what I was doing wrong.

You are correct, I like my big old battlewagons. I appreciate the advice. I do have to admit while I try to be smart about DCP I still sometimes use it an incorrect moments, and I don't change course/speed often enough when DDs are around. I've no intention of rushing this time, I really do want to learn to get good at the game. You'd think after 5 years I'd be decent but I've realized how far I have to go.

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I'm certainly not the best person to give advice (I began playing in March, if I'm not wrong, mostly with german cruisers), but as I have also been trying to improve my game, here are my 2 cents.

Only last month I started worrying about improving my game, not only about stats, but mainly in having more influence (positive!) In the matches.  What worked for me was, as others have said, spending time playing with only one ship, and trying to improve in it. And not rushing to finish the german cruiser line.

Before that, I was using a lot of ships, including BBs and DDs (trying to learn them, game mechanics, and so on), but the results were frustrating and I didn't see myself improving. I tried to do that at Graf Spee, but it didn't work too much, but when I tried this with the Yorck (and, next step, Hipper), I noticed an improvement. Of course, it's not a big improvement, but my stats get better every week and I have (playing Roon, for example) really good matches, being an important part of the team. 

Hope it helps.

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There are far too many mechanics for people to want to learn. It wasn't as bad when there were only 100 ships in the game and not so many gimmicks. The one that I still can't understand is the RNG and why a full salvo from a Battleship on a broadside target with 7 hits only nets you 570 HP.

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this sounds like a great idea and a worthwhile quest of self improvement. i can understand not wanting to replay everything without a reward so resetting a line is a pretty smart plan.

most good advice was already given so i will only say that positioning and timing are the most important parts in this game. also use the minimap, its the most powerful tool you have.

good luck and fare seas.

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1 hour ago, Chezik said:

Flambass' recent video on what he thinks is wrong with the game has me thinking. For those who haven't seen it the TL:DR version is it's too easy to advance through the tech tree, and people aren't learning game mechanics, maps, ship characteristics, etc before reaching T10.

I know for a fact I'm one of those people. I've only got about 1700 random battles (and a bunch of coop, some operations, and a few ranked) under my belt but am sitting on multiple T10s. And hoo boy, am I bad. My gunnery is terrible, my awareness lacking, I've no idea how high tier maps work, and I can't effectively destroy enemy ships. My play at tier 8 and higher is simply atrocious and I often end up frustrated. Not because I'm losing (a lot) but because I personally am putting out terrible results and can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

The ship I'm best in is the Scharnhorst. Why? Because it's the one I have the most overall battles in. I have a pretty decent idea of what I'm fighting, I understand the gunnery and armor scheme, I can see good/bad matchups on the map, and I can estimate how long it takes to flex.

With that preface out of the way I've decided to conduct an experiment. I'm going to reset a line and actually grind. I'm going to play each ship, without shortcuts, until I'm back at T10. I'm going to learn the ships and tiers and maps inside and out. And when one is done I aim to work on the next.

Why would I do this? Because there's no incentive for me to go back and play ships in previous tiers knowing I already have the next one unlocked with all modules with no idea how to play it. Because maybe if I start over on a line I enjoyed I can actually take the time to learn how to play. I've skipped through so much in pursuit of T10 that it's less fun to play than the low tiers when I was frustrated with the grind.

Any pieces of advice for this mad scheme? Is this a worthwhile endeavor or  am I just wasting my time?

I know how you feel.

I have close to 17k battles.

I am a very good CB player for our team, but not up to snuff about what you mentioned in randoms.

I reset multiple lines to get the Ohio.

....

The one thing I got out of the experience is how to play each ship better in today's meta

Learning each ship again and how to play better, using my experience,  was a ton better than just chasing a T10 carrot.

I did make the mistake of resetting the RU bb line for those last points for Ohio.

Now your idea has me thinking as I grind for Colbert....

I should make this a learning time and reset each line.

I have all the T10, save carriers...

Thank you for changing my mindset.

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1 hour ago, Chezik said:

Flambass' recent video on what he thinks is wrong with the game has me thinking. For those who haven't seen it the TL:DR version is it's too easy to advance through the tech tree, and people aren't learning game mechanics, maps, ship characteristics, etc before reaching T10.

I know for a fact I'm one of those people. I've only got about 1700 random battles (and a bunch of coop, some operations, and a few ranked) under my belt but am sitting on multiple T10s. And hoo boy, am I bad. My gunnery is terrible, my awareness lacking, I've no idea how high tier maps work, and I can't effectively destroy enemy ships. My play at tier 8 and higher is simply atrocious and I often end up frustrated. Not because I'm losing (a lot) but because I personally am putting out terrible results and can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

The ship I'm best in is the Scharnhorst. Why? Because it's the one I have the most overall battles in. I have a pretty decent idea of what I'm fighting, I understand the gunnery and armor scheme, I can see good/bad matchups on the map, and I can estimate how long it takes to flex.

With that preface out of the way I've decided to conduct an experiment. I'm going to reset a line and actually grind. I'm going to play each ship, without shortcuts, until I'm back at T10. I'm going to learn the ships and tiers and maps inside and out. And when one is done I aim to work on the next.

Why would I do this? Because there's no incentive for me to go back and play ships in previous tiers knowing I already have the next one unlocked with all modules with no idea how to play it. Because maybe if I start over on a line I enjoyed I can actually take the time to learn how to play. I've skipped through so much in pursuit of T10 that it's less fun to play than the low tiers when I was frustrated with the grind.

Any pieces of advice for this mad scheme? Is this a worthwhile endeavor or  am I just wasting my time?

There is no need to reset the line.

I, like many players, rushed up every line I ever played to get to tier ten until having them all. I enjoyed the journey but always had the feeling of the nest level I'll be better and pwn these guys... only to realize that the only thing that make you better is experience.

Keep your ships, move your captains forward, back fill your fleet per line once you get to ten. It's worth having as many ships in port as possible for many various events. Regrinding a line is the biggest con in this game. Plus, you will hit ships that you don't like along the way and stall out or free xp past... using resources again to purchase ships that you already had?...crazy pills time.

All of the learning you intend to do would be better suited by keeping what you have, and just playing them more often. 

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1 hour ago, CO_Valle said:

I’m an average player so there are far more knowledgeable people around here, but I think I’ve made progress.

A few of the things I’ve done:

- Never hurry a line, while I’ve used some FXP to speed up some research, I’ve never used FXP to skip a ship.

- Take your time, there is no hurry, when I first reached T8, I noticed that I wasn’t good enough yet, so I grinded several lines to T8 before moving forward. To this date I’m nearing just my 5th T10.

- Are you familiar with the concepts of angling and overmatch?

- Situational awareness and map control come only with experience, just keep an eye on the mini map often, it will come second nature.

Edit:

You can also send replays to @Lord_Zath and he’ll give you constructive criticism on what are you doing.

o/ Thanks!!!

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1 hour ago, enderland07 said:

I would probably not choose to regrind but to play a single ship until you feel good at it. A lot of people don't realize how hard it is to bounce between different ships (even when you are really good at the game) because of the nuanced differences

While I don't completely disagree with your point on nuances of different ships, I think it is best to learn some fundamentals that will improve play in any ship and then worry about getting good in specific ones. For instance just watch the minimap and learn to really understand where the enemies are and what they are going to do. Even if a ship hasn't been spotted in ages, you probably know where it is most if the time. Stuff like that will help you win more games than practicing any one ship will. 

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Just now, Ossiuum said:

While I don't completely disagree with your point on nuances of different ships, I think it is best to learn some fundamentals that will improve play in any ship and then worry about getting good in specific ones. For instance just watch the minimap and learn to really understand where the enemies are and what they are going to do. Even if a ship hasn't been spotted in ages, you probably know where it is most if the time. Stuff like that will help you win more games than practicing any one ship will. 

Yep.

I only even mentioned that because the OP talked about having terrible gunnery skills. Switching around ships makes that problem worse really fast.

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9 minutes ago, Joyous_Vibes said:

There is no need to reset the line.

I, like many players, rushed up every line I ever played to get to tier ten until having them all. I enjoyed the journey but always had the feeling of the nest level I'll be better and pwn these guys... only to realize that the only thing that make you better is experience.

Keep your ships, move your captains forward, back fill your fleet per line once you get to ten. It's worth having as many ships in port as possible for many various events. Regrinding a line is the biggest con in this game. Plus, you will hit ships that you don't like along the way and stall out or free xp past... using resources again to purchase ships that you already had?...crazy pills time.

All of the learning you intend to do would be better suited by keeping what you have, and just playing them more often. 

This is certainly a good point but I'm thinking the extra resources afforded by the RB will give me an incentive to slug it out. That and the desire to get better. That's why I'm planning on only doing one line at a time, probably the Soviet BBs (should be able to complete the UU missions by the end of the year that I have unlocked) because it's a particularly powerful line, I've got a 15 point captain dedicated (Ovechkin got moved to the Smolensk, another ship I have no idea how to play), and even with the few battles I have they're very forgiving ships. Once I've got them mastered I'll try moving on to another line and seeing how I do. I really do want to learn and I know the only way to do so is play more battles, I feel like I need an incentive to do so at lower tiers.

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2 hours ago, enderland07 said:

I would probably not choose to regrind but to play a single ship until you feel good at it. A lot of people don't realize how hard it is to bounce between different ships (even when you are really good at the game) because of the nuanced differences.

If you have a few ships that you like, pick one and play it repeatedly until you get a better feel for how it handles and are more comfortable with aiming. 

And after every game, identify at least 1 mistake you made that you can try to avoid making again. This is probably the most important part of the entire process. Repeating bad mistakes in a regrind won't magically make you better.

This has pretty much been what I have said to people that asked for help, go back to the beginning and get comfortable with each one. On playing many different ships I have found that playing one type at a time works well because the differences between say BB's are a lot smaller than the differences between a BB and a cruiser or DD.

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2 hours ago, BrushWolf said:

This has pretty much been what I have said to people that asked for help, go back to the beginning and get comfortable with each one. On playing many different ships I have found that playing one type at a time works well because the differences between say BB's are a lot smaller than the differences between a BB and a cruiser or DD.

That's also a big part of the problem I think. I keep bouncing around between lines. Having one line to focus on specifically will force me to learn the basics of that style, along with how to play as that class. I've been doing that since beta and I really feel like all the jumping around has hurt my ability.

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2 minutes ago, Chezik said:

That's also a big part of the problem I think. I keep bouncing around between lines. Having one line to focus on specifically will force me to learn the basics of that style, along with how to play as that class. I've been doing that since beta and I really feel like all the jumping around has hurt my ability.

I see the problem more in playing totally different ships. For example going from a BB to a DD or cruiser. If you stay with a type for your session the changes you will have to make between ships are much smaller.

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My advice: play ranked.  You will be cussed at and yelled at but, by god, it will make you get better in a hurry.  Just remember thst when people are yelling at you to look past the anger and try to see the information anout how you messed up

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5 hours ago, Chezik said:

Any pieces of advice for this mad scheme? Is this a worthwhile endeavor or  am I just wasting my time?

Free XP to tier 5, no point in doing lower tiers.

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