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Hunter_Steel

Odin. Why?

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Honestly I was interested in Odin as a Tier 8 Schanrhorst, but this is just a no from me, not even worth 3,500 doubloons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LISp-R_cWds

 

I know Flamu can be dramatic, but he really highlights points to Odin. Only reason I'd get her is for that Nordic camo.

 

~Hunter

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Odd. I saw a game in which Lord Zath did great things with her. 

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4 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Odd. I saw a game in which Lord Zath did great things with her. 

The biggest issue comes from her low HP. It's a brawling Battleship, but with that HP, you don't even want to get close. There's no quick reloading heal, and they even removed the special aim-time from her shells to ensure better consistency.

~Hunter

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I saw the video yesterday. Made it a no go for me.

I mean, a KM brawler? Get Tirpitz or Bismarck instead.

Guns and torps? I prefer Shiny Horse.

Want gun power at the tier? I have North Carolina.

I am cool with getting it by playing directives, but having to use dubs on top of that no matter how well you do or how fast you finish the 20 directives? For this ship? Nope.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Odd. I saw a game in which Lord Zath did great things with her. 

Some can do good with the Roma, it doesn’t mean that she is that good.

 

 

and as he said, it is not that she is bad, but what she should be good at she is not, and the rest she get outlcassed by many.

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On 5/25/2020 at 7:29 AM, alexf24 said:

I saw the video yesterday. Made it a no go for me.

I mean, a KM brawler? Get Tirpitz or Bismarck instead.

Guns and torps? I prefer Shiny Horse.

Want gun power at the tier? I have North Carolina.

I am cool with getting it by playing directives, but having to use dubs on top of that no matter how well you do or how fast you finish the 20 directives? For this ship? Nope.

Well if you finished the directives it would be a whopping 14 bucks  . You decided all this after having never played the ship and watching one video on it . Only time will tell but if I can get all the directives done by just playing my regular games . Well then I will spend the 14 Dollars worth of doubloons and get her . If not then I will weigh the situation according on how much I have to spend to get her . But I'm not going to say yes or no now . 

Edited by clammboy
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7 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Well if you finished the directives it would be a whopping 14 bucks  . You decided all this after having never played the ship and watching one video on it . Only time will tell but if I can get all the directives done by just playing my regular games . Well then I will spend the 14 Dollars worth of doubloons and get her . If not then I will weight the situation according on how much I have to spend to get her . But I'm not going to say yes or no now . 

WHAT??????

Do you realize a commonsense approach, such as the one you presented, does not provide room for drama? How can this forum survive without ranting & raving WG has another money grabbing event going on?

I'm with you, if it comes down to a question of spending $14 after completing the directives through regular game play then I may get the Odin.

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1 hour ago, Hunter_Steel said:

The biggest issue comes from her low HP. It's a brawling Battleship, but with that HP, you don't even want to get close. There's no quick reloading heal, and they even removed the special aim-time from her shells to ensure better consistency.

~Hunter

I saw one test in the ship where it chewed through a lot of aircraft. So perhaps doing the AR, BFT, and AFT secondary / AA build would be good as auxiliary features while focusing mainly on mid and long range combat abilities.  Not sure if she will be good or not though.

 

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23 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Well if you finished the directives it would be a whopping 14 bucks  . You decided all this after having never played the ship and watching one video on it . Only time will tell but if I can get all the directives done by just playing my regular games . Well then I will spend the 14 Dollars worth of doubloons and get her . If not then I will weight the situation according on how much I have to spend to get her . But I'm not going to say yes or no now . 

 Even if you finish the directives I'm not really sure that it's worth 14 bucks. It's definitely not worth more than that.

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With all the heavy-handed nerfs, it really seems more logically placed at T7 instead.  I don't see an issue with it slotting in nicely alongside Scharnhorst, but I do see major issues with it being uptiered to T10 as it currently exists.

Interesting how WG states that they are going to move forward with only incremental buffs/nerfs to ships, but then lob 10k health off of Odin with one fell swoop.  Gives the impression that they likely once wanted to sell this ship for $$$, but once it became an almost free reward ship, it wasn't allowed to be competitive or much fun after that.

 

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1 minute ago, Ace_04 said:

With all the heavy-handed nerfs, it really seems more logically placed at T7 instead.  I don't see an issue with it slotting in nicely alongside Scharnhorst, but I do see major issues with it being uptiered to T10 as it currently exists.

Interesting how WG states that they are going to move forward with only incremental buffs/nerfs to ships, but then lob 10k health off of Odin with one fell swoop.  Gives the impression that they likely once wanted to sell this ship for $$$, but once it became an almost free reward ship, it wasn't allowed to be competitive or much fun after that.

 

It's the Prinz Eitel Friedrich all over again.

~Hunter

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39 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

It's the Prinz Eitel Friedrich all over again.

~Hunter

Yeah, seems to be a pattern with the sledgehammer nerfs.  It's like the giveaway ships aren't allowed to be good or fun.

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3 hours ago, Hunter_Steel said:

I know Flamu can be dramatic, but he really highlights points to Odin. Only reason I'd get her is for that Nordic camo.

I haven't played the Odin and I'm nowhere near as experienced in this game as Flamu but I can recognize a biased review when I see one.

  • He says Monarch is "significantly stealthier than Odin". 0.5 km is significant on a BB? Odin has 12 km concealment!!! How much better does he want?
  • He also neglected to mention the smoke firing penalties: 11.9 km on Odin vs. 13.35 on Monarch. Imagine that on a DD div.
  • Just a minute later he says their health pools are within almost 10K. The difference is 8K, and Monarch gets squishier armor and an exposed citadel.
  • Says NC has better HE DPM. By how much? 103K compared to 97K. They even have a comparable number of fires per minute. 
  • Neglects to mention that Odin has fast shells (easier aiming), 2.0 sigma, 30 s turret traverse, and the 2nd highest AP DPM on T8 BBs. Not to mention that lower HP pools also means AR kicks in earlier. Also neglects the utility of torpedo guides for aiming, something he relies on heavily.
  • Claims there isn't a single T8+ cruiser you can overmatch on the nose. RN CLs? Smolensk? Colbert?
  • Complains about 30 knot speed! How many T8 BBs do more than 30? The answer is only 5. 30 isn't bad.
  • Claims hydro is only useful if you can brawl. No comment.
  • "The second you push up you become a target" No [edit], Einstein.
  • At the end he potatoes, eats 2 torps, then complains about survivability. What's the benchmark here? If he was in a Bismark, he would have about 12K more HP pool and the same torpedo protection, but would he have only eaten 2 torps with the slower rudder shift and the larger turning radius?

Of course you can't take each point in isolation; you need to combine them together. But has he done that? If you try to connect the dots in his video you end up with an argument like this: Odin is a supposed to be a brawler, but because she has a low HP pool and is not the best in her tier at anything she is incapable of fulfilling that role. Basically he demands that Odin be able to push forward in any situation and perform well. Since when do we play ships like this, where we decide how a ship should be played then demand that she is specced with that purpose in mind? How about you figure out the strength and weaknesses, and adjust your playstyle accordingly? 

He then concludes that you should only get Odin if you have money lying around or you are a collector, because he has ascended to become the Great Arbiter of Fun, he knows what ships you will enjoy and what ships you will hate. Last time a checked, "fun" is subjective. After saying that he does not enjoy the ship, the right thing to say next is "Maybe you will find it fun to play" but instead he just spoke on behalf of all his viewers that the ship cannot be fun for anyone. 

Edit: To be clear, I don't know if Odin is good or fun. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't, but I wouldn't base than on Flamu's review. Find someone else who hasn't decided the verdict in advance and is looking for ways to justify it.

Edited by Baritone4
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4 minutes ago, Baritone4 said:

I haven't played the Odin and I'm nowhere near as experienced in this game as Flamu but I can recognize a biased review when I see one.

  • He says Monarch is "significantly stealthier than Odin". 0.5 km is significant on a BB? Odin has 12 km concealment!!! How much better does he want?
  • He also neglected to mention the smoke firing penalties: 11.9 km on Odin vs. 13.35 on Monarch. Imagine that on a DD div.
  • Just a minute later he says their health pools are within almost 10K. The difference is 8K, and Monarch gets squishier armor and an exposed citadel.
  • Says NC has better HE DPM. By how much? 103K compared to 97K. They even have a comparable number of fires per minute. 
  • Neglects to mention that Odin has fast shells (easier aiming), 2.0 sigma, 30 s turret traverse, and the 2nd highest AP DPM on T8 BBs. Not to mention that lower HP pools also means AR kicks in earlier. Also neglects the utility of torpedo guides for aiming, something he relies on heavily.
  • Claims there isn't a single T8 cruiser you can overmatch on the nose. RN CLs? Smolensk? Colbert?
  • Complains about 30 knot speed! How many T8 BBs do more than 30? The answer is only 5. 30 isn't bad.
  • Claims hydro is only useful if you can brawl. No comment.
  • "The second you push up you become a target" No [edit], Einstein.
  • At the end he potatoes, eats 2 torps, then complains about survivability. What's the benchmark here? If he was in a Bismark, he would have about 12K more HP pool and the same torpedo protection, but would he have only eaten 2 torps with the slower rudder shift and the larger turning radius?

Of course you can't take each point in isolation; you need to combine them together. But has he done that? If you try to connect the dots in his video you end up with an argument like this: Odin is a supposed to be a brawler, but because she has a low HP pool and is not the best in her tier at anything she is incapable of fulfilling that role. Basically he demands that Odin be able to push forward in any situation and perform well. Since when do we play ships like this, where we decide how a ship should be played then demand that she is specced with that purpose in mind? How about you figure out the strength and weaknesses, and adjust your playstyle accordingly? 

He then concludes that you should only get Odin if you have money lying around or you are a collector, because he has ascended to become the Great Arbiter of Fun, he knows what ships you will enjoy and what ships you will hate. Last time a checked, "fun" is subjective. After saying that he does not enjoy the ship, the right thing to say next is "Maybe you will find it fun to play" but instead he just spoke on behalf of all his viewers that the ship cannot be fun for anyone. 

 

Like I said, I know his dramatic. The general idea of Odin was: A Tier 8 Scharnhorst, a brawler, but something different to Tirpitz, to give some flavor in the currently stale Tirpitz vs Massachusets argument. Odin the way she is now, after the heavy handed nerfs that chopped 10k HP off of her, and even removed the quick arm-time of the shells that made overpens less common, and now you sit with this mess of a ship with trash AP penetration, worst survivability among Battleships in Tier 8, and is pretty much going to be a frustrating ship to play. Like, why on Earth would you pick this over Tirpitz? She'd be a better fit in Tier 7 now, just remove the 32mm bow and you have an amazing tier 7.

~Hunter

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5 minutes ago, Hunter_Steel said:

Like I said, I know his dramatic. The general idea of Odin was: A Tier 8 Scharnhorst, a brawler, but something different to Tirpitz, to give some flavor in the currently stale Tirpitz vs Massachusets argument.

I'm not claiming anything about Odin being good or bad or unique or anything since I haven't played her. But Flamu's video is not merely dramatic, it's biased and logically flawed in so many ways, so if you want an expert opinion you're better off looking elsewhere. Hopefully LMW's review comes out before the event begins.

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He is dramatic but makes some good points.  Not sure about the logic as I was watching it while falling asleep at 4AM.

I just hope it doesn't suck as hard as the vid makes it out to.  Would be a <insert whatever you want>  to grind on it then find out its just floating razor blades.

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33 minutes ago, Baritone4 said:

I haven't played the Odin and I'm nowhere near as experienced in this game as Flamu but I can recognize a biased review when I see one.

  • He says Monarch is "significantly stealthier than Odin". 0.5 km is significant on a BB? Odin has 12 km concealment!!! How much better does he want?
  • He also neglected to mention the smoke firing penalties: 11.9 km on Odin vs. 13.35 on Monarch. Imagine that on a DD div.
  • Just a minute later he says their health pools are within almost 10K. The difference is 8K, and Monarch gets squishier armor and an exposed citadel.
  • Says NC has better HE DPM. By how much? 103K compared to 97K. They even have a comparable number of fires per minute. 
  • Neglects to mention that Odin has fast shells (easier aiming), 2.0 sigma, 30 s turret traverse, and the 2nd highest AP DPM on T8 BBs. Not to mention that lower HP pools also means AR kicks in earlier. Also neglects the utility of torpedo guides for aiming, something he relies on heavily.
  • Claims there isn't a single T8+ cruiser you can overmatch on the nose. RN CLs? Smolensk? Colbert?
  • Complains about 30 knot speed! How many T8 BBs do more than 30? The answer is only 5. 30 isn't bad.
  • Claims hydro is only useful if you can brawl. No comment.
  • "The second you push up you become a target" No [edit], Einstein.
  • At the end he potatoes, eats 2 torps, then complains about survivability. What's the benchmark here? If he was in a Bismark, he would have about 12K more HP pool and the same torpedo protection, but would he have only eaten 2 torps with the slower rudder shift and the larger turning radius?

Of course you can't take each point in isolation; you need to combine them together. But has he done that? If you try to connect the dots in his video you end up with an argument like this: Odin is a supposed to be a brawler, but because she has a low HP pool and is not the best in her tier at anything she is incapable of fulfilling that role. Basically he demands that Odin be able to push forward in any situation and perform well. Since when do we play ships like this, where we decide how a ship should be played then demand that she is specced with that purpose in mind? How about you figure out the strength and weaknesses, and adjust your playstyle accordingly? 

He then concludes that you should only get Odin if you have money lying around or you are a collector, because he has ascended to become the Great Arbiter of Fun, he knows what ships you will enjoy and what ships you will hate. Last time a checked, "fun" is subjective. After saying that he does not enjoy the ship, the right thing to say next is "Maybe you will find it fun to play" but instead he just spoke on behalf of all his viewers that the ship cannot be fun for anyone. 

Edit: To be clear, I don't know if Odin is good or fun. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't, but I wouldn't base than on Flamu's review. Find someone else who hasn't decided the verdict in advance and is looking for ways to justify it.

Excellent analysis. I just looked at the 2.0 sigma and said "want." 

I mean, everyone complains about Azuma, but I love that ship and always have fun when I play it. 

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2 hours ago, Arctander2 said:

Was that pre-nerf? Here's his page... I'm not seeing any specific Odin review, got link?

It was on his stream yesterday.

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15 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Excellent analysis. I just looked at the 2.0 sigma and said "want." 

I mean, everyone complains about Azuma, but I love that ship and always have fun when I play it. 

Well, there is more to accuracy than sigma (think Yamato vs. pre-nerf Kremlin) but it's still something odd to leave out in a review video. If she gets the same formula as all other German BBs then she should be very similar to Scharny in terms of accuracy. The flight time and impact angles are practically identical according to WoWS Fitting Tool. 

I'm also an honorary member of the Azuma fan club. The guns are just so satisfying.

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I saw one test in the ship where it chewed through a lot of aircraft. So perhaps doing the AR, BFT, and AFT secondary / AA build would be good as auxiliary features while focusing mainly on mid and long range combat abilities.  Not sure if she will be good or not though.

 

The AA should be pretty decent because Odin packs GK / Gneisenau 128mm DP guns.  Most especially if Odin gets to be top tier and shred dinky little Tier VI CV aircraft.  If you do Secondary Spec with BFT / AFT it'll only get better.  Not saying it'll be a "No Fly Zone" but it should be pretty good.  Bismarck, Tirpitz OTOH will get devoured whole by CVs as they pack the worse 105mm DP guns for AA.

 

Still... I miss my AA Gneisenau from the RTS CV days.  The 128s rocked hard in AA Builds.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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My only complaint about Odin is how I have to jump through so many hoops to get myself a discount. The initial starting price is so outrageously overpriced, I gotta do most of the directives just to bring the cost down to a normal Premium ship cost. I understand that WeeGee wanted to do something with dockyard again, but I'm still not liking it. :Smile_sceptic:

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6 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

My only complaint about Odin is how I have to jump through so many hoops to get myself a discount. The initial starting price is so outrageously overpriced, I gotta do most of the directives just to bring the cost down to a normal Premium ship cost. I understand that WeeGee wanted to do something with dockyard again, but I'm still not liking it. :Smile_sceptic:

At least those directives can be reasonably accomplished this time.  No stupid "Earn 750,000 FXP in German or Japanese cruisers." (and do it in 2 days, along with all the others you need, if you want a free ship).  Yes, Odin can't be had for free, but it can be had for relatively cheap through relatively normal play.

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16 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

At least those directives can be reasonably accomplished this time.  No stupid "Earn 750,000 FXP in German or Japanese cruisers." (and do it in 2 days, along with all the others you need, if you want a free ship).  Yes, Odin can't be had for free, but it can be had for relatively cheap through relatively normal play.

I'm not asking about getting the ship for free. I just wanted to buy her normally, like every other Premium ship, from the Premium shop. I even have funds set aside, ever since she was first announced. However, WG created this... obstacle course, just so people can attempt at getting a discount, from the overinflated starting price. Yes, that's the key part here.

AFAIK, when WoT does something like this, the price starts at normal level, and then each set of missions gives you a discount, until it becomes free for people who make it all the way. So even if you only go partial ways, you're still getting some discount, for your efforts.

Here, for Odin dockyard in WoWs, the price starts at inflated value (35,000 foubloons), and you gotta jump through so many hoops and complete many, many directives just to bring the cost down to the normal level of a Premium ship. Then, afterwards, you go some more and jump through even more hoops, and finally start getting yourself a discount. I find this to be utterly flawed, as it reeks of price gouging, only to put on a show that people are getting a great discount for their efforts... but no, it's not.

Edited by Blorgh2017
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