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Yamato - underperforming BB that's not fun to play

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After grinding up the IJN BB line I finally got my own Yamato -- and after x26 battles in it, it's gonna gather barnacles in port. This is such a disappointing ship -- and no, not my first T10 BB, I already have Montana, Kremlin and GK.

1. It's one giant floating citadel, so you cannot shift on the map without going undetected first -- so get use to sailing in reverse, maintaining your angles.

2. Accurate guns? Meh. I'm not the best shooter in the world, but this ship is not a sniper, there's a lot of dispersal on the shells at long range.

3. Burns easily. A Smolensk will torch you down right quick, but most CAs and Brit BBs have no problem setting fires.

4. Your shells often overpen, so unless you cit something your AP shells will often do a measly 2K damage. And they richochet waaaay more than I think a shell with the mass of a Mercedes S-class sedan plunging in at several hundred meters per second should...especially against cruisers.

5. And sloooowwww turret traverse means you better be shooting at some as slow moving as you, or who is unaware that you can shoot 'em from 30km away.

Verdict: Yamato plays like a glass cannon. It has lots of health, but is not armored enough in enough places to have high survivability and has a real citadel size issue. It is big-big-big, easy to hit, and maneuvers poorly. It cannot tank, but can support a push with the help of others. It is most successful tooling about at least 20km+ away, angling to avoid getting citadeled and dancing forwards and backwards. In short, this is a loooong range artillery platform that should not try to close or brawl. And I don't find that all that interesting to play.

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2 hours ago, BarnacleCollector said:

There's nothing wrong with gathering barnacles.

Hotel Yamato, Truk, The Carolines.

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I'm playing musashi and I'm having a blast. the guns are punchy as hell and sitting nose in next to an island while shooting ppl is fun. sometimes you just gonna go for some good super structure pens. 

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4 hours ago, EasyEight said:

After grinding up the IJN BB line I finally got my own Yamato -- and after x26 battles in it, it's gonna gather barnacles in port. This is such a disappointing ship -- and no, not my first T10 BB, I already have Montana, Kremlin and GK.

1. It's one giant floating citadel, so you cannot shift on the map without going undetected first -- so get use to sailing in reverse, maintaining your angles.

2. Accurate guns? Meh. I'm not the best shooter in the world, but this ship is not a sniper, there's a lot of dispersal on the shells at long range.

3. Burns easily. A Smolensk will torch you down right quick, but most CAs and Brit BBs have no problem setting fires.

4. Your shells often overpen, so unless you cit something your AP shells will often do a measly 2K damage. And they richochet waaaay more than I think a shell with the mass of a Mercedes S-class sedan plunging in at several hundred meters per second should...especially against cruisers.

5. And sloooowwww turret traverse means you better be shooting at some as slow moving as you, or who is unaware that you can shoot 'em from 30km away.

Verdict: Yamato plays like a glass cannon. It has lots of health, but is not armored enough in enough places to have high survivability and has a real citadel size issue. It is big-big-big, easy to hit, and maneuvers poorly. It cannot tank, but can support a push with the help of others. It is most successful tooling about at least 20km+ away, angling to avoid getting citadeled and dancing forwards and backwards. In short, this is a loooong range artillery platform that should not try to close or brawl. And I don't find that all that interesting to play.

It's okay to not click with every ship.  I do well with the Yamato, but I don't play a lot of tier10.

If it means anything, I leveled all the way through the Russian BB line only to discover [for myself] that the Kremlin is just boring to play. 

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But every BB burns easily. The only ships that don't are CVs. The citadel is to balance that you overmatch the 32mm of bow plating BBs have. Sure, you have trouble angling that cit, but so does (most) everyone else when being shot by Yamato. Just need good positioning and the legendary upgrade and you'll be golden. Islands can zone for you, for instance. Your bad cit isn't an issue when your side is against cover.

As for Yamato being fun or not... yeah, I'll agree that she isn't, but that comes down to turret traverse to me. She's a ship I should love, yet every time I've gotten to use her she's just not flexible enough for my playstyle. I like to wiggle my guns in and out of position, and she just... doesn't do that. Not even well or not, but that kills her against BBs and other fairly high pen guns. Combine all this with Kremlin being fairly "in" right now and her biggest advantage, her overmatch, is totally nullified. She's a good ship for those that can handle the traverse of a sloth.

...What, didn't you know that sloths have turrets?

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As for Yamato being fun or not... yeah, I'll agree that she isn't, but that comes down to turret traverse to me. She's a ship I should love, yet every time I've gotten to use her she's just not flexible enough for my playstyle. 

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I've done well in games when I find a good island to hide behind, like a really big-gunned Des Moines. In one match I nuked an Iowa who never saw me, he was spotted by team mates, and he was screaming "HAX!!" as he went down. But I'd rather get more aggressive and get more tanky. So it's not a bad ship, it's just not as strong as I expected it to be. If you have to hide behind islands to do well, you're in a glass cannon...

Quote

If it means anything, I leveled all the way through the Russian BB line only to discover [for myself] that the Kremlin is just boring to play. 

I'm with you on that, I've had same experience. I find I have more fun playing my T6 & T7 BBs and other ships in general. T6  in particular seems to result in the most balanced and fun games. I also kept my T2 German DD, the V-25  -- its such a fun little ship to play. Very fast, good rudder shift, low profile makes it hard to hit as you make an attack run with bow mounted torps. It's like deadly waterbug!

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On 5/25/2020 at 12:22 PM, Shoggoth_pinup said:

But every BB burns easily. The only ships that don't are CVs. The citadel is to balance that you overmatch the 32mm of bow plating BBs have. Sure, you have trouble angling that cit, but so does (most) everyone else when being shot by Yamato. Just need good positioning and the legendary upgrade and you'll be golden. Islands can zone for you, for instance. Your bad cit isn't an issue when your side is against cover.

As for Yamato being fun or not... yeah, I'll agree that she isn't, but that comes down to turret traverse to me. She's a ship I should love, yet every time I've gotten to use her she's just not flexible enough for my playstyle. I like to wiggle my guns in and out of position, and she just... doesn't do that. Not even well or not, but that kills her against BBs and other fairly high pen guns. Combine all this with Kremlin being fairly "in" right now and her biggest advantage, her overmatch, is totally nullified. She's a good ship for those that can handle the traverse of a sloth.

...What, didn't you know that sloths have turrets?

Yamato has particular problems with fire though, because she is so large, so immobile and so difficult to conceal that she is more easily and more often hit than other BBs. If she’s on the map she is spotted, and she is sluggish enough that players don’t miss her, even at max range. She takes constant damage with no counterplay potential. 
 

I find her a lot better to play in ranked, since there are usually a higher percentage of BBs and fewer cruisers, teams tend to group closer together, and there are fewer enemies so often only 1 or 2 can shoot at once, and there are often more important targets anyway. The trouble with playing the Yamato in randoms is that it is the absolute easiest target to farm damage off of, so everybody focuses on farming damage off it — In ranked people are trying to win so they don’t focus the Yamato quite as much. 
 

A big part of the problem is Yamato got power creeped. Other battleships got their citadels lowered, or were introduced with superior (and often fictional) armor schemes. Of the BB lines, the IJN is probably the one most in need of rebalancing, as it has not aged well. 

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It got power creeped and ninja nerfed. Its dispersion now is insanely higher than it used to be pre-musashi. Before Musashi this ship could routinely land 5 of 9 shells at ships 30km away (full range mods) ... didnt matter if they were pens or not, what mattered was the shells FELL on the target ship. Now? You're crazy lucky if a single shell lands... the rest will be splashing long and short all over the place. 

Yamato has no long range accuracy over any other ship. All it has is longer range. The sigma it has only means the shells will fall inside the width of a broadside BB at ~25km but since sigma does not affect long/short dispersion then the shells will land in the water long/short of the target regardless of range. 

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13 minutes ago, Skyfaller said:

It got power creeped and ninja nerfed. Its dispersion now is insanely higher than it used to be pre-musashi. Before Musashi this ship could routinely land 5 of 9 shells at ships 30km away (full range mods) ... didnt matter if they were pens or not, what mattered was the shells FELL on the target ship. Now? You're crazy lucky if a single shell lands... the rest will be splashing long and short all over the place. 

Yamato has no long range accuracy over any other ship. All it has is longer range. The sigma it has only means the shells will fall inside the width of a broadside BB at ~25km but since sigma does not affect long/short dispersion then the shells will land in the water long/short of the target regardless of range. 

Powercreep, yes.

Ninja Nerf? Ehh, no. Yama is supposed to be the ultimate long range killing machine ( that's not Slava ), but it's also a bit of a meme from time to time, and it has a tendency to troll people more often than not.

:SerB:

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On 6/11/2020 at 7:38 PM, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Powercreep, yes.

Ninja Nerf? Ehh, no. Yama is supposed to be the ultimate long range killing machine ( that's not Slava ), but it's also a bit of a meme from time to time, and it has a tendency to troll people more often than not.

:SerB:

Its not a tendency its a fact. Its not a long range killing machine since Musashi came in.. that's when its guns overnight became so inacurrate you're better off firing HE until you under 14km. 

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2 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

Its not a tendency its a fact. Its not a long range killing machine since Musashi came in.. that's when its guns overnight became so inacurrate you're better off firing HE until you under 14km. 

Huh?

Yama has had the same 2.1 sigma and Japanese BB dispersion curve that it's always had. I don't see how the trollishness is a fact...

:SerB:

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6 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

Huh?

Yama has had the same 2.1 sigma and Japanese BB dispersion curve that it's always had. I don't see how the trollishness is a fact...

:SerB:

Sigma has very little face value compared to actual results. This is simply because sigma is just telling you where 50% of the shells will likely land near the center of the aim point AREA (which in itself is about 20x bigger than any BB in the game)

That being said, sigma does not dictate the vertical or horizontal dispersion..those are independent values unique to each nation's guns, particularly in BBs. 

IJN has horrendous vertical dispersion (long/short) and a horizontal dispersion (left to right of a broadside target) that is a bit better (not a lot better but just a bit) than other nation BB guns. 

In practical application this means IJN BB guns, particularly Yamato's, will tend to land closer together in that central aimpoint area... in horizontal. Vertical however, they will spread out far worse than any other nation. 

What does this mean? If you are aiming at a broadside BB that is 200m long (just to use an easy number) at 20km...which the chart at the WG wiki (and the one which is more complete here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1N3J2SIkED_rny9I8tYXrDwhZRkp3jX8eXWw8HnxiLqo/edit?usp=sharing ) says its shells would land in a horizontal dispersion of 228m ... compared to, say, a Kremlin's 271m.

 

You'd think Yamato would be landing more shell hits on target at 20km than Kremlin right? Well, no. As reality proves, Kremlin (which has 1.8 sigma btw) actually hits the same as Yamato at that range.  

When a 200m bow-to-aft target at broadside is being fired upon, Yamato shells will land at least half within the width of the target... while Kremlin lands roughly 2/3rds of the shell yamato would. If we consider both have 9 barrels and sigma says at least half will land there, it means, rounded down, 4 shells ...and out of those 4 shells yamato lands all in the width of the target while kremlin lands 3. 

So what happens? Vertical dispersion happens. Yamato's vertical dispersion is crazy high compared to Kremlins. That means all 4 of those Yamato's shells will have a big chance of missing the target's hull completely.. because the starboard-to-port distance compared to the bow-to-aft distance is very small. This matches what we see in the game with Yamato shells whiffing far long or short from the aimpoint.. hitting the superstructure or falling short in the water when you are aiming for the lower armor/waterline.

The longer the range the worse the vertical dispersion gets hence why Yamato misses so much at long range. Ironic for the 'long range accuracy' 'perk' ship dont you think? 

Kremlin though, with its much better vertical dispersion, has a much higher chance of landing the shells on the hull... because long/short is THE critical long range accuracy factor, not bow-to-aft. Out of its 3 shells it will likely land as many as Yamato will or more. 

Now consider what WG did for Kremlin. The numbers you see based on sigma and soviet BB gun dispersion values are modified greatly by values which are still hidden/unknown .. the moment the range is 12km or less (as per their website claims but its been observed 16km is when the magic starts to happen) the guns suddenly have near zero vertical dispersion. Where you aim those guns is exactly where the shells will fly to and hit... and spread out horizontally along the way. The chances of it splashing short or long are near zero for half the shells or more (sigma). This actually helps the damage output as the shells will hit different health pools but all will be hitting where aimed vertically.... and the remaining 50% of the shells which as per sigma would be landing outside the aimed central area will , at near zero vertical dispersion setting, only be spreading out horizontally a lot...causing increased damage overall rather than missing.

....and now you see why Kremlin and other soviet BBs are the ONLY ones that magically land multiple citadels with ease, consistently. Their worse off horizontal dispersion (which causes the 1.8 sigma) doesn't penalize them in the least .. not at 5km and not at 20km.

Yamato at 16 or even 12km would still be seeing its shells landing long (above your aim point...aka not the waterline) or short (splashing in water) EVEN THOUGH its shells have NARROW bow-to-aft dispersion. This is why even at medium and close range Yamato just cannot land those multiple citadels like kremlin does consistently. Aiming at waterline has most shots miss it.. aiming halfway between deckline and hull (an effort to, at close range, kinda force the garbage vertical dispersion to hit with more shells) still results in shells merely hitting the strongest armored sections for far less than a citadel and half of the shells STILL miss long or short. 

Before Musashi patch, Yamato's vertical dispersion values must have been much better... and after it, they got changed to the whiff-master it is now. I used to equip the full max range modules and get 30km+ range and consistently hit 4 or more shells with Yamato at that range on enemy ships (when the lead aim was done right, im not claiming 100% of the time.. this is meant to illustrate the shells landing within the port-starboard width of the target at that range). With the current values this simply will never happen consistently. You will see your shells splash long and short missing the target and hardly 1 or 2 hitting if any. 

 

It would be interesting if WG ever had the cojones and integrity of balancing the playing field and give the IJN line a similar 'magic' accuracy bonus at long range.. like past 24km. Reducing vertical dispersion but increasing horizontal (for balance, I dont want IJN ships to be as easymode OP accuracte as soviet bbs are). The fact it only kicks in past 24km makes it a true long range bonus with a narrow 3km distance in which it will work...and if the player takes the range mod rather than the legendary mod they would give up on the improved horizontal dispersion at all ranges and the reload bonus. 

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That's a lot of good points you make there, @Skyfaller. I really haven't been around that long and I must admit that I never knew about the Yammy's issues after Moshi came around. 

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22 hours ago, Shrayes_Bhagavatula said:

That's a lot of good points you make there, @Skyfaller. I really haven't been around that long and I must admit that I never knew about the Yammy's issues after Moshi came around. 

:SerB:

I was, and the IJN BB line has always had bad vertical dispersion. I got my Yamato in March 2016, and her shooting has been pretty consistent since then.

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I'd take my Yamato over any other Tier X BB any day. Whenever I play Kremlin I instantly regret playing it because that 32mm overmatch makes Yamato my favorite.

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On 6/15/2020 at 2:34 PM, Jagdpanzer131 said:

There seems to be a lot of tinfoil hat theories in here.

What I said comes directly from WG's own wiki about how dispersion and sigma operate. All you need to do is apply thought to how it operates in Yamato and Kremlin given their very,very different horizontal and vertical dispersion. The results match what we see in the game. 

Sigma ellipse is where HALF the ship's shells are expected to land, most in the middle of the sigma ellipse and the rest somewhere inside the ellipse. The other half of the shells are rng-based which can still land inside the sigma ellipse and definitely align with the center point of the ellipse... and what we see in-game is that consistently, its just 1 or 2 shells that land quite far from the center or the sigma ellipse. In short, you see that 80% of shells do land inside the sigma ellipse and at least half of those land in the very center of the sigma ellipse. 

Also, this is from the EU forums:

Dispersion.thumb.jpg.10418f4d50b0d486c4da4dac8a998b86.jpg

..and mind you, this is at a range before the soviet bias flip to near-zero vertical dispersion at 12km (claimed by WG but its observed at 16km in the game). This is a good visual on as to just how IJN hate code and soviet bias code are made to work in the background. 

Kremlin's dispersion ellipse is horizontally wider than Yamato's.. not by much but it is. The vertical dispersion however is SIGNIFICANTLY narrower. Almost 1/3rd narrower. 

Now remember, this is just an indicator of where the shells would be hitting the water. We know that at least half of the shells fired would land somewhere in the middle of the sigma ellipse. Using PAINT and just drawing over the above ellipses, then shrinking it to 50% and overlaying it in the same image..after removing Thunderer to have better visibility.. 

image.thumb.png.753b288c319ae0335805df7329357416.png

Left image shows where half of the full salvo is expected to land (sigma). Right image shows 50% sized areas of sigma..and this is where at least 25% of the full salvo shells will land. A 9 barrel BB, rounding numbers down, would see 4 shells landing inside the right image area and of those 4 shells, 2 would guaranteed land somewhere in the 50% sized ellipses. RNG still works upon the 2 shells that are not guaranteed to land inside the 50% ellipse areas and upon the 4 shells that are to be landing outside the right hand image (normal sigma ellipse). That RNG TENDS to move the 4 non-sigma ellipse destined shells to land randomly inside the sigma ellipse, usually near the edges. 

 

Taking this into account, you can see Yamato has negligible 'advantage' in horizontal accuracy .. as ALL ships's sigma have most shells landing in the length of the target itself. Vertical dispersion though, Yamato suffers a massive disadvantage as 4 shells, even if RNG pushes them towards the edge of the sigma ellipse, have more than 3-target-beam worth of distance to miss in.. and then the other 4 shells that land inside the sigma area, the 2 that are guaranteed to hit near the center STILL have 1 entire beam-width worth of area they can miss striking the target in. That's a 50% chance to hit its 2 center-area guaranteed shells inside the target's beam. :O 

Now look at Kremlin. Horizontally it still lands all of its shells in the target's bow-aft length. Shells will spread out a dozen meters more than Yamato but still are on target. Vertically however, Kremlin shells show significantly higher chances of the 4 outside-sigma but rng-pushed into sigma border shells than Yamato does. In fact, Kremlin's outside-sigma shells have MORE chances to hit inside the beam of the target than Yamato's sigma-assigned shells do. 

Then look at Kremlin's center area sigma ellipse..where its guaranteed to land at least 2 somewhere in there... those shells have essentially an 80% chance to land inside the beam of the ship since there is 25% of beam width worth of gap between the beam's edge and the guaranteed-sigma ellipse.  

Slava is guaranteed to hit with practically every single shell (which matches what is seen in game lol).

Yamato? Yamato is guaranteed to miss half of its sigma shells given its vertical ellipse gaps from the port-starboard to the ellipse border in vertical is literally as wide as the target itself when put together. So from the already 9 guns being reduced to 4 (rounding down) hitting in the sigma area... only 2 have a high chance of actually landing somewhere inside the beam of the ship. And this is IF the shells were to be landing in the very middle of the target, its widest point.

This matches what Yamato performance is in game.. the majority of the times you get only one or two shells striking the target and the rest missing. At any range. 

 

But that's not the total sum of the problem here. As I said this is where the shells would land in the water.. but a ship isn't flat surface of the water..its an object with height.

Picture a shell having been aimed to hit the citadel of a target.. the waterline.. and aimed to hit below the forward turrets not dead center. 

Kremlin's shell ballistics are very flat. Now look at where the Kremlin's vertical-accuracy ellipse is in relation to the beam of the target. Imagine a bunch of shells with a mostly flat trajectory just 2km from target heading towards the forward-turret area of the target. Half of them are SUPPOSED to land somewhere outside the sigma ellipse or RNG-pushed to land near the edges of it... but they don't.. and we see in game that they don't... the majority of the full salvo shells, consistently, hit the target. The remaining 4 shells expected to land inside the sigma ellipse all have an extremely high chance to hit while the 2 that are guaranteed to hit technically will land exactly where aimed. This matches exactly what we see this ship do consistently. 

Why? Flat ballistics. It makes the shell fly not only low but also with less separation possible from each other while in flight (an important thing to keep in mind since we all see shells spread out into their final landing points about 1 second prior to landing..so about 1km worth).. hence any shells that were supposed to land behind the target end up hitting the target.

While not gaussian-dispersion correct, if you split the incoming rounds into 3 groups... land short, land where aimed, land behind target .. you'd have 33% of shells assigned to each category. 33% of 4 is, rounded down, 1. So 1 shell on the short, 1 on target, 1 long and the remaining one can be at random, either of the three. 

Back to our thougth experiment... the 9 shells at 2km from target, traveling tightly packed together... 5 destined to land somewhere near the edges of the sigma ellipse, 1 destined to land short of the aimpoint, 1 to land long, 1 to land on target and the last one can be at random either short,long or on target.... are flying low and flat to target.  The guns were fired aiming at the waterline. 

... when the reach 1km distance to target they start to spread out prior to impact to land where they're supposed to. 

The 1 shell destined to land on target does so.

The 1 random shell inside sigma circle lands at random of any of the other 3 shell locations. 

The 1 shell destined to land short swerves down prior to impact but since the sigma ellipse only gives 25% of target's beam width to land in, it has a very high chance to hit the water just below waterline and still travel and strike the hull. 

The 1 shell destined to land behind target ... doesn't climb to avoid hitting the ship, it just climbs whatever tiny angle it needed to to get there... and the ship's hull sticking out of the water is in the way..so it hits the target. 

Of the 5 shells destined to land somewhere near the edges of the sigma ellipse , at least half of them (rounded down to 2) will land short the others long. The ones destined to land long have the same end result as the above listed shell.. they hit the hull at a higher point than the inside-sigma circle shell does. The remaining shells destined to land short will see some splash in the water too short to travel underwater and some will splash close enough to still hit hull under water. 

Thus, Kremlin,overall, out of its 9 guns, is VERY HIGHLY likely to land 2 to 3 hits on citadel area that was aimed for. Highly likely to land 2 somewhere above the waterline but still hit the hull. Highly likely to land at least 1 more in the citadel area of the ones that landed short. So out of 9 guns you see 4 citadel area hits, 3 hits to hull above citadel and 2 that either miss or hit higher up in the hull. 

Sound familiar? Its what we see Kremlin do consistently. RNG changes it from 2 to 4 citadels as highly likely and at least 3 to 4 hits elsewhere on the hull in every salvo. Very few shells miss completely. 

 

Run this scenario with Yamato's ellipse. Its a freaking accuracy nightmare. The much bigger vertical dispersion significantly increases the chances of shells landing too short and too long from target's beam. The shells fly with a noticeable arc, not mostly flat so there is no chance of the shell bypassing the RNG and gauss distribution by hitting the target's hull because it just happened to be between its destined landing point and the shell. Out of 9 shells you can only expect 2 to hit the hull SOMEWHERE with any consistency.. and you WILL watch your shells spread out at that 1km point several ship beam's worth and most of them splash long and short. RNG will at times push 1 or 2 more shells to hit the target, somewhere. Sound familiar? This is what we see Yamato consistently perform like. 1 or 2 hits for sure in most salvos, sometimes 3 or 4... but none hardly ever hit where aimed at longer ranges. The remaining shells dodge the target's hull with their arcs by splashing too short or flying over the superstructure. 

 

This needs to be fixed. Yamato is supposed to be THE most accurate long range battle ship guns. It clearly is not. There is one way to make it be this without bias-OP'ing it like the soviet BBs. 

We take the Slava's vertical dispersion. Can't claim its unfair if its implemented on another ship right komrade?

We increase Yamato's horizontal dispersion to be the worst of all ships.Wider than Kremlin's. 

We make Yamato shells have high traveling arcs. Think Harugumo arcs. 

image.thumb.png.740f71795a1ba7e14633dc90e1f9adbf.png

 All I did here was stretch out horizontally the Slava's full sized sigma ellipse and narrow it vertically by 25%..so its in between Slava's sigma and Slava's 50% sigma ellipse. 

Then I stretched it horizontally to be 20% wider than Kremlin's horizontal sigma ellipse on each end. Aka , 40% more horizontal dispersion. 

 

What this will do is have Yamato shells fired past a short range (8km?) develop noticeably increasing high ballistic arcs.. that for the most part, prevents shells from hitting target if they are destined to miss since the high arc will just splash them very short or clear them from target's hull as they fly to the water. 

It makes LONG range accuracy be unmatched by any other BB .. but the horizontal dispersion is quite large so its not going to be landing many shells on a bow-on ship nor land all its shells on the target either as some will be splashing in front and behind the length of the target  (if center was aimpoint). Angled targets will see many shells miss because of the narrow vertical but long horizontal dispersion. 

It increases the shell flight time which increases the difficulty of landing hits at long range... this is something player skill overcomes. 

Its not an accuracy ellipse that gives super advantage all the time like the soviet ships have...and it does hamper hit chances in most situations... but it does provide the absolute best possible long range accuracy IF many factors come together including player skill. 

This is why the high arc is needed to balance out the loss of overall hit rate when those factors dont come together.. its a ++difficulty but it also has its rewards: plunging fire at 24km+. 

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Great explanation, very interesting -- and now I can make sense of why Yamato has such awful accuracy. Funny thing is, I rarely take my Kremlin out to fight either, it just bulls its way through everything, so it's also not as interesting as it could be.

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On 6/15/2020 at 2:34 PM, Jagdpanzer131 said:

There seems to be a lot of tinfoil hat theories in here.

Possibly, but a lot (not all, some still love it) of long time Yamato drivers think the ship is not worth the effort now.

There are some of us who believe the Missouri suffered a similar ninja nerf around the same time.

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On 5/25/2020 at 5:08 AM, BlailBlerg said:

I'm playing musashi and I'm having a blast. the guns are punchy as hell and sitting nose in next to an island while shooting ppl is fun. sometimes you just gonna go for some good super structure pens. 

Yeah I have Musashi as well and it is a real beast.  I even tend to prefer her over the Missouri despite the lesser earning potential in the Musashi because I tend to have much better performing matches in the Musashi.  

As for why some people have different experiences in the same ship, it has always been my opinion that some people just don't mesh well with the play style of the ship and some do.   In the OP's case, the Tier 10s he already has, all have a completely different play style than the Yamato/Musashi.   Generally speaking I feel the Yamato/Musashi play style has more in common all forward facing turret designs like the Richelieu , Beurgogne, Nelson, etc. and not everyone can play these types of ships well.  Also the OP might have zero experience playing these types of ships. 

Generally speaking you play the Yamato/Musashi exactly the same as you play these types of BB.   You find an island to protect your flank, go bow in and kind of hover in place so to speak.  Also just like the forward facing armament BBs, your flanks are very vulnerable so generally speaking you only want to turn once you have gone dark, just like the OP pointed out.   This means picking the right starting position all the while having your escape routes pre-planned is key to how good or bad you will do with a Yamato/Musashi.  The benefit of the Yamato/Musashi of course is unlike traditional front facing armament BBs, you actually have a rear turret which aids you in kiting away.  

Edit:  Just wanted to add that the Yamato is a pretty old ship, one of the originals and over the years it has been power crept quite a bit.  That being the case, I am not surprised that many people might feel that she doesn't feel as powerful as she used to.  To be blunt, she has weathered the storm very well and still is very, very powerful, but she isn't the dominant force she used to be, she just has too many good competitors now which makes her feel weaker by comparison than she used to be.  I don't think there should be anyone surprised by this. 

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On 7/18/2020 at 5:00 AM, hipcanuck said:

Possibly, but a lot (not all, some still love it) of long time Yamato drivers think the ship is not worth the effort now.

There are some of us who believe the Missouri suffered a similar ninja nerf around the same time.

You guys were always wrong.  It took one tin foil hatted player to say, "Did WG nerf Missouri's dispersion this patch?  I think she's worse now" like some people do every other patch.  Only that time that started a chain with people and it caught like wildfire.

 

Nothing changed.  I always told you guys were wrong, nothing has been changed with Missouri.  LWM even went through the effort to show how much you guys were wrong.

People always post and swear quite often that something changed in their ship's gunnery when nothing was done.

 

As far as the subject of Yamato, NA Server Weekly Stats of 2020-09-05, Damage Averages, Yamato still turns in good damage, among the best in tech tree Tier X Battleships.  Pretty much matches Republique (88k for Yammie, 89k for Republique), better than Kremlin (80k), a lot better than Montana (78k) and GK (74k).

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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It could be worse....accuracy in chart based more on feeling than facts.

 

roma.jpg.4d2b1d3807a46a28e7588ba8d374dabb.jpg

Edited by AshySlashyAshySlashy
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Uhm ... what?

1) Yes, she be can easily citadeled at close to medium ranges, although only a few ships can reliably citadel her at long range where she normally sits. This is of course assuming she's not sitting flat broadside all the time. As for her concealment, she sits squarely in the middle of the pack.

2) No offense, but what are you smoking? Only Thunderer and Slava have more reliable guns at longer ranges. Yamato has been known since the very beginning as one of the most consistent battleships in the game. If you can't land shells, that's on you, not the ship.

3) Okay, repeat after me because these comments are getting oooooold: Every single ship in the game has the exact same chance of catching fire as all others at her tier. The fire coefficient is based solely on it's tier, not on the ship or nation. Yammy is in fact quite small by T10 BB standards, and it's only because she tends to favor a sit and camp playstyle that she gets farmed. 

4) I'll concede that she can overpen a bunch, but not any more than most other Tier 10 BBs, honestly. As for the rest, you may want to, well, L2P. Any armor or plating over 33mm can ricochet Yamato shells if sharply angled. Look up overmatch mechanics.

5) Her traverse is perfectly fine when played at the ranges she's supposed to play at. If you're playing her in such a way that her traverse is often problematic, you're playing it wrong. Yammy doesn't brawl. Yammy never brawls.

Yamato/Musashi/Shikishima's call to fame is the fact that other BBs can't straight bow tank against them. British and French BBs are especially vulnerable as Yammy can mess them up bad no matter their angle or where the shells land (other than the main belt). Enemy BBs getting dev struck through the nose is a Yammy meme for a reason.

Yammy is still a very very good ship in the hands of someone with good aim.

Edited by KaptainKaybe

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