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KriegBoomer

Friendly Fire/Team Kill

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Ok - One thing that was a problem when I first started in 2016, was team kill/friendly fire.. someone cuts me off in my BB and yep - I ain't gonna turn in time... OR a relatively smart team member decides to somehow run into my torp spread... Got it..

Is there a mechanic in the game that allows such stupid actions to not be put as a penalty towards me? If I am firing on teammates during the match and sink them - OK yes thats a penalty.. But - because someone has a moment of sheer genius and cuts in front of me while I am looking down sites?

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1 hour ago, KriegBoomer said:

Is there a mechanic in the game that allows such stupid actions to not be put as a penalty towards me? If I am firing on teammates during the match and sink them - OK yes thats a penalty.. But - because someone has a moment of sheer genius and cuts in front of me while I am looking down sites?

As the person firing the guns or torpedoes the onus is absolutely on you to ensure that you are not endangering any nearby teammates. Battles are naturally dynamic and ships are going everywhere - you have to allow for this when firing.

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6 minutes ago, HMS_Hoodwink said:

As the person firing the guns or torpedoes the onus is absolutely on you to ensure that you are not endangering any nearby teammates. Battles are naturally dynamic and ships are going everywhere - you have to allow for this when firing.

That is not always the case, with torpedoes.

Firing torps behind a teammate, then literally having that team mate do a 180 turn, back into the torps (and there is literally no reason for the turn) then hitting speed boost to get into the torp path, that's on them. 

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16 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

Firing torps behind a teammate

Found your problem, stop doing this, it's entirely your fault and it forces your teammate to either move in a potentially dangerous direction or eat your poorly launched torps that weren't going to hit a damned thing anyway. 

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14 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

That is not always the case, with torpedoes.

Firing torps behind a teammate, then literally having that team mate do a 180 turn, back into the torps (and there is literally no reason for the turn) then hitting speed boost to get into the torp path, that's on them. 

Wow! I wish I could read the minds of my team mates like that to know they are just wandering aimlessly instead of getting into a position that might help them win or aid the team.

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1 hour ago, KriegBoomer said:

But - because someone has a moment of sheer genius and cuts in front of me while I am looking down sites?

Such actions are usually deliberate, both to (try to) get a kill and knowing you will get a penalty for firing. On collisions, well they happen, most are avoidable if you go into binoc. vision only to shoot, and exit afterwards. 

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Just now, Gruntdog_3 said:

Such actions are usually deliberate, both to (try to) get a kill and knowing you will get a penalty for firing. 

Prove that.

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2 minutes ago, Gruntdog_3 said:

You just did.

No, I didn't. If you are referring to the poorly launched torpedoes, it's not a deliberate action. It's being left with no choice, it's tunnel vision, it's expecting better play and awareness from your teammate. So no, I didn't. You need to provide proof that every one of these friendly fire actions is a deliberate attempt to cause a penalty or secure a kill, that is your claim, not mine. 

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1 hour ago, Xanthro said:

That is not always the case, with torpedoes.

Firing torps behind a teammate, then literally having that team mate do a 180 turn, back into the torps (and there is literally no reason for the turn) then hitting speed boost to get into the torp path, that's on them. 

Ever been radared in a DD by an undetected cruiser & need to find the quickest path to cover before that 6 seconds runs out & a 12 shows up in your priority target because you are in the wide open?

How do you actually determine "no reason for the turn" w/no access to that players UI readout.

Just because your's shows nothing doesn't mean you can proclaim what there's shows.

The speed boost probably means you are referring to a DD & you obviously don't realize that a DD is maneuverable so they can GTFO of Dodge if they need to...at least as long as some teammate doesn't fill their exit w/racks of "that's on them" torps.

Your ordinance...your responsibility (nobody else fired it...you are the only 1 to blame...& that is always the case.

3 hours ago, KriegBoomer said:

Ok - One thing that was a problem when I first started in 2016, was team kill/friendly fire.. someone cuts me off in my BB and yep - I ain't gonna turn in time... OR a relatively smart team member decides to somehow run into my torp spread... Got it..

Is there a mechanic in the game that allows such stupid actions to not be put as a penalty towards me? If I am firing on teammates during the match and sink them - OK yes thats a penalty.. But - because someone has a moment of sheer genius and cuts in front of me while I am looking down sites?

How is your teammate supposed to know you are "looking down your sites"?

You should only be looking down your sights when you are ready to fire & making sure nobody is around to hit while your guns are loading (as well as looking for other targets of opportunity that might be more advantageous to fire at as opposed to staying locked on target looking down your sights)...especially in a BB when you have about 25-30 seconds between reloads...& in all ship types actually.

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10 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Ever been radared in a DD by an undetected cruiser & need to find the quickest path to cover before that 6 seconds runs out & a 12 shows up in your priority target because you are in the wide open?

How do you actually determine "no reason for the turn" w/no access to that players UI readout.

Just because your's shows nothing doesn't mean you can proclaim what there's shows.

The speed boost probably means you are referring to a DD & you obviously don't realize that a DD is maneuverable so they can GTFO of Dodge if they need to...at least as long as some teammate doesn't fill their exit w/racks of "that's on them" torps.

Your ordinance...your responsibility (nobody else fired it...you are the only 1 to blame...& that is always the case.

How is your teammate supposed to know you are "looking down your sites"?

You should only be looking down your sights when you are ready to fire & making sure nobody is around to hit while your guns are loading (as well as looking for other targets of opportunity that might be more advantageous to fire at as opposed to staying locked on target looking down your sights)...especially in a BB when you have about 25-30 seconds between reloads...& in all ship types actually.

Makes sense - I have been doing that (Switching between binoc and ship view) but still inevitably there will be that one person who cuts in front of me and I cant turn in time. As far as hitting an ally with a torp, it happened once but not with me.. I watched a DD and a CL argue in game chat for half a random because the DD torped him and such..

Well I hit someone once with a torp - it was long after I launched it and they just happened to eat it... still as mentioned my ordinance my fault I suppose. Just like in the real world.

 

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12 hours ago, Brohk said:

Prove that.

I often intentionally take torps that were aimed poorly if they:

  • Require me to position poorly towards enemy team to dodge
  • Were fired carelessly by my team

If I'm going to take damage because of a foolish teammate, you better believe I'll take the (reduced) damage that TK torps cause rather than enabling their behavior by turning broadside towards the red team.

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14 hours ago, KriegBoomer said:

Ok - One thing that was a problem when I first started in 2016, was team kill/friendly fire.. someone cuts me off in my BB and yep - I ain't gonna turn in time... OR a relatively smart team member decides to somehow run into my torp spread... Got it..

Is there a mechanic in the game that allows such stupid actions to not be put as a penalty towards me? If I am firing on teammates during the match and sink them - OK yes thats a penalty.. But - because someone has a moment of sheer genius and cuts in front of me while I am looking down sites?

Ramming a friendly ship does such small amount of damage that it means nothing.  It only shows up as a pink damage indicator and nothing else.  You would have to keep your ship against a friendly ship for most of the game to rack up enough ramming damage for it to count.

Torping a team mate is another issue.  Only you can prevent a team mate from getting hit by your torps.  If they are in front of you, don't fire.  If you do fire, you are taking a calculated risk that you aren't going to hit them if they happen to alter course.

 

12 hours ago, Xanthro said:

That is not always the case, with torpedoes.

Firing torps behind a teammate, then literally having that team mate do a 180 turn, back into the torps (and there is literally no reason for the turn) then hitting speed boost to get into the torp path, that's on them. 

No. Not always.  Torps that far out can often get forgotten about or not even thought about.  A ship that is close to the enemy might be expecting enemy torps when they hear the indicator and be looking for those, not the friendly ones that are coming behind them.  They might also be trying to avoid being detected and shot by enemy ships, so could easily miss any communication or indication that friendly torps are coming. 

I don't think I've seen anyone intentionally grief me by trying to eat one of my torps in the 7k games I have played.  If that is happening regularly, then the best decision would be to not fire torps into areas where that could be done.....ie; don't shoot from behind a friendly ship.

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11 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Ever been radared in a DD by an undetected cruiser & need to find the quickest path to cover before that 6 seconds runs out & a 12 shows up in your priority target because you are in the wide open?

How do you actually determine "no reason for the turn" w/no access to that players UI readout.

Just because your's shows nothing doesn't mean you can proclaim what there's shows.

The speed boost probably means you are referring to a DD & you obviously don't realize that a DD is maneuverable so they can GTFO of Dodge if they need to...at least as long as some teammate doesn't fill their exit w/racks of "that's on them" torps.

Your ordinance...your responsibility (nobody else fired it...you are the only 1 to blame...& that is always the case.

How is your teammate supposed to know you are "looking down your sites"?

You should only be looking down your sights when you are ready to fire & making sure nobody is around to hit while your guns are loading (as well as looking for other targets of opportunity that might be more advantageous to fire at as opposed to staying locked on target looking down your sights)...especially in a BB when you have about 25-30 seconds between reloads...& in all ship types actually.

 

DD main, been subject to radar all the time. I'll fill you in MORE on exactly what happened, and you tell me if you think there was something wrong with the torps, you tell me.

Late game, I'm on edge of an outside cap C, capping it, in a DD, there is a BB that is pushing, into my cap. We have B cap, enemy has A cap. It's a close match as both sides have rotated around the map and taken caps multiple times. I'm low on health in my DD. The rest of the fight is at A/B cap area. No enemy ship is closer than far edge of B cap, there is no radar, or hydro. We have a ship lead, but they have the point lead. I had just sunk a ship before getting into C cap. I line up the torps on the very healthily, over 60% health,  BB, he hits the first set and detonates on the first torps, so 2 torps from the first set and the entire second set go in front of the BB, because detonated ships just stop. When I launched, there was a near undamaged DD on our side, who the entire match has been sailing around but not doing much in terms of spotting or damage. Our other DD is ahead and to my right, and is generally heading toward B cap and 1 line. I thought he was there to provide vision in case I had to smoke from the BB. Our DD is about 8K away. After I launch my torps, he turns to his right, which increases his distance from me, he turns 180 degrees, and EVERY enemy ship is listed on the map, and we can't see any ships, as they are well over 15K away. The game is secure now as we will have 2 caps, the ship lead and the enemy has to push into B, and they are low health.

DD then hit's speed boost, angles away from me, directly toward my torpedoes, which are heading to the edge of the map. I warn him in chat for more than 30 seconds that he is headed to the torpedoes, he doesn't reply. Frankly, I don't think he can actually hit the torpedoes, but I always warn when people head toward the path of torps. He literally increases his angle toward the torps, at max speed, then turns into them when he gets close, and again, only reason for the turn is to get into the torpedo path.

Then of course he [edited] in chat, and get's called out by our entire team. He's dead last in points. Hell, if we wanted to turn and go AFK, which is perfectly acceptable under this scenario, no problem, but not only did he turn 180, it's literally the worst possible place for him to go. There is NOTHING there, nothing for him to do. To top it all off, the chat is all about me setting up the torps on the BB.

I don't launch torps if there is any kind of normal chance I'll hit a teammate, unless those torps guarantee a win. For example, if there is one enemy ship left, we have multiple ships, but way behind in points and have to kill the other ship, and my torps may hit a teammate if that teammate takes weird evasion action, I'll launch, because the win is more important that my ship or any teammates ship. I'll still apologize and compliment the ship that was even scared of my torps, much less hit, but near every match, I have to hold off on torp launches because a teammate is in a bad spot. Not everyone is good at reading the minimap and understanding that getting between a DD and a enemy ship in close is not a good idea.

But no, the actions of the DD in this example cannot be explained by any rational process, other than to grief. When you play thousands of matches, you'll run into players who are in a match to grief other players. I've had players do nothing but launch torps at me the entire match, and I've never been in a match with them that I remember, or shoot my ship at the start of a match. Even then, I just warn people in chat and move away from them. I don't even bother to report them, unless I've personally seen them do it more than once. Why, because I have no idea what kind of day that person had, and they could just be lashing out at the World, and this is an arcade game. Getting super upset is simply a waste of my time, and I've been torped by my teammates way more often than my torps have ever hit a teammate. I've been torped by teammates from 3 k away, because people can be bad at this game, I'll let them know in chat that this is a bad idea, but there is only some much anger I can summon over a dumb decision made by a poor player.

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

DD main, been subject to radar all the time. I'll fill you in MORE on exactly what happened, and you tell me if you think there was something wrong with the torps, you tell me.

Late game, I'm on edge of an outside cap C, capping it, in a DD, there is a BB that is pushing, into my cap. We have B cap, enemy has A cap. It's a close match as both sides have rotated around the map and taken caps multiple times. I'm low on health in my DD. The rest of the fight is at A/B cap area. No enemy ship is closer than far edge of B cap, there is no radar, or hydro. We have a ship lead, but they have the point lead. I had just sunk a ship before getting into C cap. I line up the torps on the very healthily, over 60% health,  BB, he hits the first set and detonates on the first torps, so 2 torps from the first set and the entire second set go in front of the BB, because detonated ships just stop. When I launched, there was a near undamaged DD on our side, who the entire match has been sailing around but not doing much in terms of spotting or damage. Our other DD is ahead and to my right, and is generally heading toward B cap and 1 line. I thought he was there to provide vision in case I had to smoke from the BB. Our DD is about 8K away. After I launch my torps, he turns to his right, which increases his distance from me, he turns 180 degrees, and EVERY enemy ship is listed on the map, and we can't see any ships, as they are well over 15K away. The game is secure now as we will have 2 caps, the ship lead and the enemy has to push into B, and they are low health.

DD then hit's speed boost, angles away from me, directly toward my torpedoes, which are heading to the edge of the map. I warn him in chat for more than 30 seconds that he is headed to the torpedoes, he doesn't reply. Frankly, I don't think he can actually hit the torpedoes, but I always warn when people head toward the path of torps. He literally increases his angle toward the torps, at max speed, then turns into them when he gets close, and again, only reason for the turn is to get into the torpedo path.

Then of course he [edited] in chat, and get's called out by our entire team. He's dead last in points. Hell, if we wanted to turn and go AFK, which is perfectly acceptable under this scenario, no problem, but not only did he turn 180, it's literally the worst possible place for him to go. There is NOTHING there, nothing for him to do. To top it all off, the chat is all about me setting up the torps on the BB.

I don't launch torps if there is any kind of normal chance I'll hit a teammate, unless those torps guarantee a win. For example, if there is one enemy ship left, we have multiple ships, but way behind in points and have to kill the other ship, and my torps may hit a teammate if that teammate takes weird evasion action, I'll launch, because the win is more important that my ship or any teammates ship. I'll still apologize and compliment the ship that was even scared of my torps, much less hit, but near every match, I have to hold off on torp launches because a teammate is in a bad spot. Not everyone is good at reading the minimap and understanding that getting between a DD and a enemy ship in close is not a good idea.

But no, the actions of the DD in this example cannot be explained by any rational process, other than to grief. When you play thousands of matches, you'll run into players who are in a match to grief other players. I've had players do nothing but launch torps at me the entire match, and I've never been in a match with them that I remember, or shoot my ship at the start of a match. Even then, I just warn people in chat and move away from them. I don't even bother to report them, unless I've personally seen them do it more than once. Why, because I have no idea what kind of day that person had, and they could just be lashing out at the World, and this is an arcade game. Getting super upset is simply a waste of my time, and I've been torped by my teammates way more often than my torps have ever hit a teammate. I've been torped by teammates from 3 k away, because people can be bad at this game, I'll let them know in chat that this is a bad idea, but there is only some much anger I can summon over a dumb decision made by a poor player.

This seems like a potential intentional torps eating scenario but there is the option that the player had his chat turned off or just ignores it. Some players do that.

The key element in that scenario you always need to take into account is that a red ship died (you even killed it yourself).

Anytime a red ship dies there is a potential for teammates to make drastic maneuvers immediately after as it may have been the target of their concentration & now their attention needs a new target.

He also may have thought that all your torps were lined up perfectly & that there was no way the BB could have avoided a whole set+ & just missed the detonation or even assumed the detonation occurred because of taking all of those torps instead of just 2.

As you said the game was won...heading to the edge of the map was the surest way to make sure he didn't derp into a red & get killed & change that. & when your in that, "well this ones over" frame of mind he may have been lighting a cigarette & taking a drink off his beer while wasding (hypothesizing of course). Next time that happens try sending a few rounds ahead of him to get his attention if no response about the torps. He might have thought they were warnings about red torps & was frantically looming in the wrong direction for them & wasding while trying to figure it out.

Did his death alter the points to where red was in the lead again (that would be the worst case scenario...sounded like a pretty good  close game...sans the pinkage anyway).

Edit: Seems like the detonations are still, "FUN & ENGAGING".

 

 

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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The game CAN'T decide who is at fault and does not try.  Don't fire behind friendlies in a DD or a CA/BB with torps.  If you are going pink for FF then you need to be more mindful of teammates around you.  It is not remotely difficult to be aware of others.

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13 minutes ago, C14Alpha said:

WG loves the fact that team damage causes controversy.

Wouldn't it be some much simpler if team "damage" just stopped the shells or torps and did no damage to the receiving ship, or the level of damage of two ships touching? WG could even calculate what damage would have been if they want to keep pink status in the game.

It would mean that griefers would have a tool removed, and it would mean that novice players who make mistakes are not so heavily punished, for that mistake.

The downside, is people would launch torps when they could hit teammates more easily, but how much of a downside is that if your teammates are seriously hurt?

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12 minutes ago, Xanthro said:

Wouldn't it be some much simpler if team "damage" just stopped the shells or torps and did no damage to the receiving ship, or the level of damage of two ships touching? WG could even calculate what damage would have been if they want to keep pink status in the game.

It would mean that griefers would have a tool removed, and it would mean that novice players who make mistakes are not so heavily punished, for that mistake.

The downside, is people would launch torps when they could hit teammates more easily, but how much of a downside is that if your teammates are seriously hurt?

I like that idea.

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4 hours ago, CylonRed said:

The game CAN'T decide who is at fault and does not try.  Don't fire behind friendlies in a DD or a CA/BB with torps.  If you are going pink for FF then you need to be more mindful of teammates around you.  It is not remotely difficult to be aware of others.

Just to point out - I went pink for being cut off by a CA while going full speed in a BB...

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