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BoghieWanKanobie

Smart Captain Skill Progression

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Yowser, two questions in one day.  I promise I have tried to search out the answers before blathering here...

Anyway, is there a smart progression in 'learning' new Captain skills. 

I don't want to be hammered as I start migrating up a tier(s) because my Captain ain't skilled enough.  If both I and my Captain are appropriately skilled I can blame the team for my losses:cap_horn:

I have been doing the following

  • Tier III completes when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his third level skill
  • Tier IV is complete when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his fourth level skill
  • Tier V...

The problem is that the amount of Captain's XP required seems to be escalating.  I can watch myself age trying to get my IJN, USN, and FN lines through Tier IV using this method.  Maybe I'll get better and this will get easier.  Is this what you chaps do?  Am I over-skilling the Captain at Tier IV - ie. what skill level should my captains be at before I start Tier V.  I don't want to be a complete target of opportunity, but I'm thinking that I might be overdoing it a bit...   Would I be competitive (kinda) if I started competing in Tier V without a fourth level skill?

 

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I never set a threshold when leveling a new line with a new captain, but getting a Captain to 10 is always a priority (namely for concealment). One thing to keep in mind, is that as the experience required to level your Captain increases, so to does the experience needed to unlock increasingly higher tiers. Getting from a tier 1 to a tier 4-5 ship is relatively quick, from then on out it takes progressively longer and requires far more games played. So that means you'll be earning a lot more commander XP.

It's a good idea to mount any special flags/camo that increase commander XP (and just for XP as well) you might have when going after your first win of the day (+50%xp). You'll see a nice hefty boost to the commander XP after the win, typically more than the XP you earned for the ship.

Don't worry too much about not having a 10+pt Captain through tier 5, the small size of maps and often aggressive games don't require one. It's the higher tiers (7-8+) that having a low skill Captain will bite you in the rear end, such as missing Concealment in a DD or Fire Prevention in a BB. 

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A general rule of thumb is that you want to shoot for 10 point captains ASAP since Concealment Expert (or Fire Prevention for BB's) are incredibly important skills and tbh 10-19 are just gravy.

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1 hour ago, BoghieWanKanobie said:

Yowser, two questions in one day.  I promise I have tried to search out the answers before blathering here...

Anyway, is there a smart progression in 'learning' new Captain skills. 

I don't want to be hammered as I start migrating up a tier(s) because my Captain ain't skilled enough.  If both I and my Captain are appropriately skilled I can blame the team for my losses

I have been doing the following

  • Tier III completes when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his third level skill
  • Tier IV is complete when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his fourth level skill
  • Tier V...

The problem is that the amount of Captain's XP required seems to be escalating.  I can watch myself age trying to get my IJN, USN, and FN lines through Tier IV using this method.  Maybe I'll get better and this will get easier.  Is this what you chaps do?  Am I over-skilling the Captain at Tier IV - ie. what skill level should my captains be at before I start Tier V.  I don't want to be a complete target of opportunity, but I'm thinking that I might be overdoing it a bit...   Would I be competitive (kinda) if I started competing in Tier V without a fourth level skill?

Based on what you've wrote, I don't 100% understand how you level up your commanders.

It seems to me you do not move a commander from a lower-tiered tech-tree ship to a higher-tiered tech-tree ship as you progress up a ship line?

Regardless, here's what I do. Whenever, I can research and purchase the next tech-tree ship, I purchase it regardless of my commander's experience. I then move my commander from the current tech-tree ship to the new one and re-train 50% for 200,000 credits. (e.g. when going up the RU CA line I move the commander on Svietlana to Kirov and then to Budyonny etc.) That way, you won't start with a 0 pt commander at each tier. If you want, you can use elite commander XP to speed up retraining. I never use doubloons for this. (Hope this helps and makes sense.)

And finally, there's no threshold for commander skill level before starting at higher tiers. So yes, you are "overdoing it a bit." You can absolutely be competitive at T5 without a fourth level skill.

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Ok, so my read is that I will not gimp myself or my team if I enter a Tier V battle without CE or IFHE (or whatever).

In World of Tanks you can use Tier V to train all your crew members on their first skill - that is probably the equivalent of a four skill captain here.  In WoWS you start getting three tier games at Tier V and run into Tier VI CVs.  It is going to be a big jump for me, but one I have to take sometime.  No time like the present.

If you see me in a Kongo and I perform like crapolla - just blow a kiss my way before you launch your Battle Chat or Port Scud:Smile_ohmy:

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First this will help immensely and not cost you the Dabs or credits. http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc

Next, Camo's and Flags are your friend when you hit t-5 I suggest staying their till you have at least a 10point captain and with the right camo, flags it wont take long and really not much longer to hit 19. Always move your first captain up the line and use XP to train him as you can.... This requires sitting in a tier longer but its well worth it. As a matter of fact it is how it use to be simply because of so few lines and very few resources, it made many people learn.

Find a few ships you excel at and keep them sell the rest and build up a arsenal of captains once you have played long enough. Captains are more valuable than 100 port princess's.

Here is why, I could have hundreds of skippers each to a ship, or I can have 4 captains fully trained to play 1 ships, it gives you a ton of oppositions and keeps your best and favorite ships from getting stale and allows multiple play styles per ship. Now granted Ive been on 4+ years to do it, but even with the "New Ikea Boats" I already have 5, 19pt captains for Halland or Friesland and it wasnt hard with getting 2 10points which i simply quick trained with XP. 

Edited by Mustangrde1

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Try and use the same captains in your premiums repeatedly with whatever CXP flags and if appropriate camos. That means you have to prioritize the nation that you have the most premiums in. Once you hit your first 19 point captain the others follow remarkably quickly.  Eventually you should try to get to the stage where every line's top ship will have a 19pt captain in it. Then your EliteCXP will accumulate really fast breeding more 19 pters. My first one came out of the Dunkirk event where we were loaned 19 pt captains that we could use in our premium ships not associated with the event to generate EliteCXP, by the end my highest captain had been promoted from a 14 point to a 19 pt. Watch events for such perks.

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Looking at the OP's battle count. I highly doubt that he has access to Elite XP for Captain skill points. So this wouldn't apply, yet.

What I would suggest is that if you have any Premium ships in port.  I would use them to 'train' the captains to max (19 points) asap.  That is the first milestone, and a big one I believe. 

This will allow you to start accumulating Elite XP (Captain XP).  As you've read here, it will allow you to upgrade the captain skill points by applying such points to the captain you want (any). 

You can auto train to any premium ship (of same nation only) with the same captain. You do not need to 'pay' extra to train him to any Premium ships.

 

What I used to do was, whenever I researched the next tier ship and purchased her.  I bought the ship without a captain (I've picked up some along the way through the years).  I've retrained the captain to the newly acquired ship.  By selecting to train the captain with Credits (50% training), and repeated the process as I have progressed upwards (sometimes, I have used doubloons to train the captain outright).  This was the only way I could 'level up' faster back then. At least to me.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, BoghieWanKanobie said:

Yowser, two questions in one day.  I promise I have tried to search out the answers before blathering here...

Anyway, is there a smart progression in 'learning' new Captain skills. 

I don't want to be hammered as I start migrating up a tier(s) because my Captain ain't skilled enough.  If both I and my Captain are appropriately skilled I can blame the team for my losses:cap_horn:

I have been doing the following

  • Tier III completes when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his third level skill
  • Tier IV is complete when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his fourth level skill
  • Tier V...

The problem is that the amount of Captain's XP required seems to be escalating.  I can watch myself age trying to get my IJN, USN, and FN lines through Tier IV using this method.  Maybe I'll get better and this will get easier.  Is this what you chaps do?  Am I over-skilling the Captain at Tier IV - ie. what skill level should my captains be at before I start Tier V.  I don't want to be a complete target of opportunity, but I'm thinking that I might be overdoing it a bit...   Would I be competitive (kinda) if I started competing in Tier V without a fourth level skill?

 

By T5 it is a MUST that all DDs have concealment expert (4 point skill). Facing T7 ships w/a DD that is seen from space is not an option.

Other ship types can survive for a bit w/out a 4 point skill as long as you aren't too many battles (3 or 4 at most) from getting a 4th point. Although it is advisable to have a 10 pointer in any ship type for best ability to make an impact at T5 & to be spending your T5 grind building up for the next point from the start...but again...most importantly DDs need to be concealed to be able to spot/cap/torp unwary BBs/get into ideal DD knife fighting positions (such as all guns facing enemy instead of still coming around) before you open up on them (although being able to torp them out w/out ever firing your guns so your gun bloom doesn't get you spotted & killed is ideal) w/out being spotted.

My rule of thumb for commander points/level is (variances of 1 point 1 way or the other depending on skill required is acceptable):

  IDEAL   ACCEPTABLE

4- 10                 8/9

5- 12               10/11

6- 14               12/13

7- 16               14/15

8- 18/19         17/18

9 & 10 -19

(this is for a free to play player...if you have the cash to go higher that is a personal choice whether to do so or not)

Ideally by the time your modules are ground out you will have the higher number of points ground out for each tier.

If you do not have the minimum for each tier stay in the lower tier until the commander is there before transferring (but be sure to account for how much XP is required to get the module upgrades & make sure he will be at the higher number by then before transferring).

As a note (a very important 1 for a newer player) you might wanna hang back on going into the higher tiers as the player skill levels increase drastically & you might not like how quickly they can punish even the tiniest of mistakes. T8 (where you 1st run into T10 players) is the major threshold to hold off on until at least 6 or 7 (& most ideally ALL other***) different lines are up to T7.  ***CVs are optional but at least playing 10- 20 games in each of the T4s...even if just in co-op...just to get the basics on how each of their individual attacks work will help you to at least mitigate a bit of the damage from them when you face them.

Hope this helps & wasn't too confusing.

  • Cool 1

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I have the T5 premium Mikoyan now. I want to assign my 16 point Shchors captain to it, but don't want to pay to do that, and want to get the 16 pointer back to Shchors later, without cost. Is that possible with a single premium ship ?

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14 hours ago, BoghieWanKanobie said:

Yowser, two questions in one day.  I promise I have tried to search out the answers before blathering here...

Anyway, is there a smart progression in 'learning' new Captain skills. 

I don't want to be hammered as I start migrating up a tier(s) because my Captain ain't skilled enough.  If both I and my Captain are appropriately skilled I can blame the team for my losses:cap_horn:

I have been doing the following

  • Tier III completes when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his third level skill
  • Tier IV is complete when my ship is complete and my Captain earns his fourth level skill
  • Tier V...

The problem is that the amount of Captain's XP required seems to be escalating.  I can watch myself age trying to get my IJN, USN, and FN lines through Tier IV using this method.  Maybe I'll get better and this will get easier.  Is this what you chaps do?  Am I over-skilling the Captain at Tier IV - ie. what skill level should my captains be at before I start Tier V.  I don't want to be a complete target of opportunity, but I'm thinking that I might be overdoing it a bit...   Would I be competitive (kinda) if I started competing in Tier V without a fourth level skill?

 

Ideally you buy a new commander for every ship at t1-3. You don't get enough time in a ship to bother retraining them. At T4 is when I buy a 3pt capt and start moving him up the line. Unfortunately WG has been cutting back on free resets so you do need to start planning in advance. Also some ship lines will have different requirements (Japanese cruisers never need Inertia Fuse for Explosives while some French cruisers do benefit and others do not) 

At t5 is a good place to grind out a capt to 10 pts. Which will be crucial for destroyers and certain cruisers. Battleships you can make do without. 

 

10 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

 

  IDEAL                        ACCEPTABLE

Tier-# of Capt Points           # of Capt Points 

T4- 10                                 8/9

T5- 12                                 10/11

T6- 14                                 12/13

T7- 16                                 14/15

T8- 18/19                           17/18

T9 & 10 -19

 

Edited table slightly for readability. 

It will also be rather difficult to achieve a 16 pt capt by T7 unless they buy a ton of premiums and play the hell out of them. I would suggest 14 pts for your first t8 depending on what ship it is. 

 

2 hours ago, Ericson38 said:

I have the T5 premium Mikoyan now. I want to assign my 16 point Shchors captain to it, but don't want to pay to do that, and want to get the 16 pointer back to Shchors later, without cost. Is that possible with a single premium ship ?

You can move the capt from Schors to Mikoyan (and vice versa) for free at any time. It will not cost anything. This is how you earn extra capt xp. 

When you move the capt later to Chapaev or Tallion you can use the same capt in Mikoyan to retrain him back to 100% without the penalty to skills/perks. 

Edited by GandalfTehGray

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Thanks. If I use my Chappy 19 point captain in Mikoyan, I get additional commander XP, correct ?

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44 minutes ago, Ericson38 said:

Thanks. If I use my Chappy 19 point captain in Mikoyan, I get additional commander XP, correct ?

Any points accrued with a full 19 point Captain results in Elite XP "pot". 

 

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1 hour ago, Ericson38 said:

Thanks. If I use my Chappy 19 point captain in Mikoyan, I get additional commander XP, correct ?

Any premium ship, even it if isn't the best use of the captains skills swap the captain around to take advantage of as many 1st win bonuses you can.

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5 hours ago, Ericson38 said:

I have the T5 premium Mikoyan now. I want to assign my 16 point Shchors captain to it, but don't want to pay to do that, and want to get the 16 pointer back to Shchors later, without cost. Is that possible with a single premium ship ?

Yes, it is. There's no retraining penalty for commanders transferred from tech tree ships to premiums, and they can be sent straight back to the tech-tree ship without having to be retrained to it. In addition, their skills are fully functional on the premium. 

You get the first win in the Shchors, then you move him to the Mikoyan (and any other RU premium ship you might obtain in the future) and play to the first win in that. At the end of the day you move him straight back into the Shchors again.

When the time comes to move him up into the Chapayev or the Tallinn (as may be appropriate), you put him in that T8 ship. You choose the 50% retraining option for 200K credits, then you put him in the Mikoyan and KEEP him there until he's worked off the other 50%.

Mind you, if you love playing the Shchors a LOT, the alternative is to leave him there and make him your 19 point candidate. From where you are now, playing even to the second crate (12,500 XP) every night with only that captain in Shchors and Mikoyan will guarantee you a 19 point captain in less than three months. Much faster if you can discipline yourself to play him more. 

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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Thanks kindly for the recommendations.

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Going to shortcut this thread for future reference...   Great information...

And, it is going to be a very long view future.  It took a LOT of time to get my Tier IV Isokaze it's 10 point captain - and now I'm faced with choosing one of two DDs to migrate him too:Smile_teethhappy:

Decisions and Patience.

I just hope I'm the better for this grinding

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19 hours ago, BoghieWanKanobie said:

Ok, so my read is that I will not gimp myself or my team if I enter a Tier V battle without CE or IFHE (or whatever).

Exactly. Myself, I basically don't get a T7 ship unless I have a 10-point captain.

I also don't bother moving captains up with the ship until I hit T4. The small amount of games you need to "catch up" a 1-pt captain starting on a T4 ship isn't worth the resources required to retrain from T2-4.

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On 5/24/2020 at 9:40 PM, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

By T5 it is a MUST that all DDs have concealment expert (4 point skill). Facing T7 ships w/a DD that is seen from space is not an option.

Other ship types can survive for a bit w/out a 4 point skill as long as you aren't too many battles (3 or 4 at most) from getting a 4th point. Although it is advisable to have a 10 pointer in any ship type for best ability to make an impact at T5 & to be spending your T5 grind building up for the next point from the start...but again...most importantly DDs need to be concealed to be able to spot/cap/torp unwary BBs/get into ideal DD knife fighting positions (such as all guns facing enemy instead of still coming around) before you open up on them (although being able to torp them out w/out ever firing your guns so your gun bloom doesn't get you spotted & killed is ideal) w/out being spotted.

My rule of thumb for commander points/level is (variances of 1 point 1 way or the other depending on skill required is acceptable):

  IDEAL   ACCEPTABLE

4- 10                 8/9

5- 12               10/11

6- 14               12/13

7- 16               14/15

8- 18/19         17/18

9 & 10 -19

(this is for a free to play player...if you have the cash to go higher that is a personal choice whether to do so or not)

Ideally by the time your modules are ground out you will have the higher number of points ground out for each tier.

If you do not have the minimum for each tier stay in the lower tier until the commander is there before transferring (but be sure to account for how much XP is required to get the module upgrades & make sure he will be at the higher number by then before transferring).

As a note (a very important 1 for a newer player) you might wanna hang back on going into the higher tiers as the player skill levels increase drastically & you might not like how quickly they can punish even the tiniest of mistakes. T8 (where you 1st run into T10 players) is the major threshold to hold off on until at least 6 or 7 (& most ideally ALL other***) different lines are up to T7.  ***CVs are optional but at least playing 10- 20 games in each of the T4s...even if just in co-op...just to get the basics on how each of their individual attacks work will help you to at least mitigate a bit of the damage from them when you face them.

Hope this helps & wasn't too confusing.

 

Not necro'ing, I emailed @IfYouSeeKhaos for a bit of clarification since I have attained, or have nearly attained, a number of 10pt captains:

 

Quote

 

IfYouSeekKhaos,

A few months ago you provided a very detailed answer to a question I had regarding captain points (skill level) to tier.  It is one of the posts I still routinely review (there are other answers that were quite good too) to see if I am on the right track.  That post is:

 

Anyway, I have attained - or, are closing in on - 10 point captains for all my ships, excepting CVs which seem hard to grow.  I have two questions:

  1. Is the IDEAL column the skill point at which I should move into the tier, or the tier at which I should attain that level.  Right now I'm assuming that I attain that level.  For example, I've been following this model:  Get my 10pt skill at Tier IV, move into Tier V and I guess I'm to get through skill point 12.  Rinse and repeat.
  2. And, should I use my 11+ points in the order of using the 11th point on a 1pt skill or group them up to 14pts and acquire a 4pt skill as my 5th skill?

 

 

 

It was really Question 2 that I wanted answered.  The Good Captain IfYouSeeKhaos answered:

Quote

 

1st off I'm glad my suggestions were helpful for you.

Just to clarify...ideal is for those that have played a lot & have banks of ECXP to instantly advance commanders at will...ideally you want to have a 10 point at the start of T4 but it's passable to have a 8 or 9 point & ideally you want a 12 point at the start of T5 but acceptable is T10 (& for DDs it's a must...unless it's a run & gun style DD where detection isn't a must).

As for your 2nd question it depends on which skill is most desirable for you...if there is a 2 point skill you need skip the 1 point & go for the 2 point...I kinda covered that w/the "variance of 1skill point..." part which was intended to suggest if you really want that 2 point skill wait instead of getting that 1 pointer. The problem is when you want to get that 4 point skill..."do I keep grinding w/1-2-& then 3 unspent points until I earn that 4th point...or do I take a cheaper 1 & use ECXP/FXP to change them out later when I get the 4th point? UGH".

But as an FYI...after you get to 10 points you can get away w/ skipping spending any points until you earn the next 4 pointer in the mid tier ranges (T5-T7).

Just be aware the veterans at that level will have extra skills when you meet them & play cautiously.

I can't tell you the number of games where there was a free commander reset & I loaded a commander w/zero points assigned & had awesome games despite it so don't panic on any of this...but also take into account I have massive amounts of 19 point commanders & 8M ECXP banked so I can have 19 pointers in anything I want...I just choose to keep the points lower at low tiers to give newer players a chance to compete...& that "Ideal" column again is if you have massive resources in reserve.

Also...the "1 point variance" was in reference to the "Passable" column...like I was saying...(except for torp DDs) a 9 pointer is passable in starting a T5...as long as you are just a few battles away from getting the 10th point you should be OK.

The main thing is to do your best...oops...actually that is the 2nd main thing...the main thing is to have fun :-)

 

This response clarified things perfectly.  I believe the advice in this thread is very useful for NewBs to the game and warrants necro'ing the thread.  The experienced and/or good players sometimes forget the struggle we NewBs go through.  I find advancing the tech tree to be trivial, but like WoT, advancing the captain skill progression to be difficult and time intensive.  NewBs and some F2Pers don't have huge holdings of CaptainsXP, FreeXP, or the 5pt skill a few players have between the ears so a multi-layered chunk of advice like this is very useful.  I will, however, follow the slight variation for Tier VII mentioned by @GandalfTehGray - otherwise I'll never see higher tiers ;-).

I do have to say, while the teeth can come out in WoWS, overall the community is exceptional.  And, even when the teeth come out it is entertaining.

Happy Hunting

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It's worth noting, too, that unicums who say that by tier x, one should have achieved a y point captain, seem to be referring to grinds done with all the bonus flags and camo flying. Under those circumstances, Commander XP earnings far outstrip ship XP (3 to 1 is not unachievable), and that accounts for the discrepancy I noted in their landmarks (tier and captain) being reached compared to mine.

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46 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

It's worth noting, too, that unicums who say that by tier x, one should have achieved a y point captain, seem to be referring to grinds done with all the bonus flags and camo flying. Under those circumstances, Commander XP earnings far outstrip ship XP (3 to 1 is not unachievable), and that accounts for the discrepancy I noted in their landmarks (tier and captain) being reached compared to mine.

The Bluenicums also have a PRs of 8,000 while grinding a Tier IV or V while I have a PR of 800 :fish_book:

That kind of PR sort of precludes long captain skill grinds.  They simply earn much more XP and Captains XP than NewBs or the Normal Folk.  Not begrudging them - I want to be one of them someday...  Even if they do not use flags and camo they can grow Captains Skills 10x faster than I.  And, if they have the powerful flags and camo that edge is even more pronounced.  However, you know what - that is a great thing.  I really don't want a bunch of Unicums forced to camp Tier V while grinding a line.  I want them to slice right through and camp Tier VII+.

Again, no issue with a pause to learn.  It is the same in WoT.  I think most 'tier run' if they haven't been punched in the face once or twice.  But, those of us who have been cold-cocked in the noggin by tier running really don't want a repeat of that wonderful experience...

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Question:

I have a single 10pt (actually 11pt) Captain for the IJN DD line so I have moved him to the Minekaze.  I do, however, want to also play the Mutsuki (for some reason :-)).  That DD will also require a new 10pt captain. 

I was thinking about "Just happening to show up in Dasha's neighborhood":Smile_trollface: . 

Would it be stupid to just purchase a 10pt Captain now that I have ground a 10 pointer through the IJN DD line?  I know I'm just at the beginning of my IJN DD career path and could still use Tier IV seasoning, but the gameplay at Tier V is so much better and the game economy is much more lucrative in terms of XP and Credits.   If not stupid, maybe I should buy the Halloween Captains and get one for free off the Dasha price - it looks like I'm destined to get some mid-tier splits...

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1 hour ago, BoghieWanKanobie said:

Question:

I have a single 10pt (actually 11pt) Captain for the IJN DD line so I have moved him to the Minekaze.  I do, however, want to also play the Mutsuki (for some reason :-)).  That DD will also require a new 10pt captain. 

I was thinking about "Just happening to show up in Dasha's neighborhood":Smile_trollface: . 

Would it be stupid to just purchase a 10pt Captain now that I have ground a 10 pointer through the IJN DD line?  I know I'm just at the beginning of my IJN DD career path and could still use Tier IV seasoning, but the gameplay at Tier V is so much better and the game economy is much more lucrative in terms of XP and Credits.   If not stupid, maybe I should buy the Halloween Captains and get one for free off the Dasha price - it looks like I'm destined to get some mid-tier splits...

If you have no problem spending money on the game picking up a 10pt commander isn’t a bad idea, I’d say get the ones that give bonuses to certain skills first even if you don’t plan on using that skill they’re the same cost and why not have the option. 

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