Land Battleships!?

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

Would love to know what possessed people to even consider this let alone think that it would be practical or even function?

Have to admit though it’s a pity the German Fleet was scuttled as I would have loved to have seen the Allied nations attempt this idea lol. (I would imagine they would need a great surplus of warships before they would be granted the go ahead to try this.)

[_WaveRider_]

Our previous defence minister suggested arming our tractors for war:

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

[dionkraft]

That could be done but not with the proposed illustration. Too much weight on only four points of support. The middle would just collapse. You would need to go with a tank tread design in order to support a large mass into even distribution on the load given.  Think of something like the StarWars  Sand Crawler

[RipNuN2]

Just study that era and you'll find all sorts of far out ideas like ships made of ice err I mean pykrete, bats loaded with incendiary munitions to be smart bombs, ect.

[Sventex]

8 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Would love to know what possessed people to even consider this let alone think that it would be practical or even function?

Have to admit though it’s a pity the German Fleet was scuttled as I would have loved to have seen the Allied nations attempt this idea lol. (I would imagine they would need a great surplus of warships before they would be granted the go ahead to try this.)

Our Sherman tanks were already too heavy for the soil in Holland and sank into the ground during Market Garden.  This "super-tank" would be what I imagine the world's first land submarine.

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

11 minutes ago, Sventex said:

Our Sherman tanks were already too heavy for the soil in Holland and sank into the ground during Market Garden.  This "super-tank" would be what I imagine the world's first land submarine.

Was it because of not having wide enough tracks on the Shermans? I have noticed that the German Panzers often used wider tracks to help better distribute weight in the ground.

[Murotsu]

12 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Was it because of not having wide enough tracks on the Shermans? I have noticed that the German Panzers often used wider tracks to help better distribute weight in the ground.

Actually, it's more complicated than that.  When you get really big, really heavy machines like the ones that would be land battleships you run into an entirely new set of problems.  It doesn't just become a matter of ground pressure but one of sheer weight and vibration.  On most soils, something weighing say 1,000 tons + will just liquify most soils and sink in.

The solution to that is to put down a thick road of ballast-- eg., gravel-- to support the weight with out the road or soil collapsing.  That's why railroads have that gravel ballast under the tracks, to support the gazillion tons of freight train moving over the rails.  It's why NASA built a gravel road for this thing:

So, the idea that something on tracks weighing 1,000 tons + is just going to move over the landscape if the ground pressure is low enough is a nonstarter.  Instead the monstrosity sinks into the soil as it vibrates it into a liquid--that is if you don't have a few thousand men and machinery making a road ahead of it as it goes...

[HazeGrayUnderway]

9 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Would love to know what possessed people to even consider this let alone think that it would be practical or even function?

Have to admit though it’s a pity the German Fleet was scuttled as I would have loved to have seen the Allied nations attempt this idea lol. (I would imagine they would need a great surplus of warships before they would be granted the go ahead to try this.)

 

9 hours ago, _WaveRider_ said:

Our previous defence minister suggested arming our tractors for war:

 

I'll be honest.  If I was still a little kid I would have thought this was cool a.f. and it would inspire me to do lots of drawings.

[_WaveRider_]

34 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

I'll be honest.  If I was still a little kid I would have thought this was cool a.f. and it would inspire me to do lots of drawings.

+1

Although if you are talking of the defence of your nation, it's a little scary.

[Aristotle83]

Yeah the fact tanks which at their absolute strongest have DD guns are the BB's of land says it all. The ocean is empty land you couldn't move around around a monster like that without causing insane collateral damage. The fort idea of keeping it stationary kind of makes sense but at that point why not just build an actual fort? 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

 

I'll be honest.  If I was still a little kid I would have thought this was cool a.f. and it would inspire me to do lots of drawings.

Lol I have to admit the idea behind them is quite impressive, despite in reality practicality and the laws of physics prevent some fun ideas from working. 

However I have heard speculation that these may be possible which would be something fun at least. The HAVw A6 Juggernauts from Star Wars... Or at least something similar could be built most likely.

[Murotsu]

Well, you can always play the original from Steve Jackson Games, Ogre 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/517780/Ogre/

The "Ogre" mega tank is almost always going to lose if you half know what you're doing.  It's sort of like a Tier X BB going up against 6 Tier VII cruisers and 6 Tier VI destroyers.  You can't win that fight no matter how good you are.

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

15 minutes ago, Murotsu said:

Well, you can always play the original from Steve Jackson Games, Ogre 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/517780/Ogre/

The "Ogre" mega tank is almost always going to lose if you half know what you're doing.  It's sort of like a Tier X BB going up against 6 Tier VII cruisers and 6 Tier VI destroyers.  You can't win that fight no matter how good you are.

 

That reminded me of the "Bolo" tank novels.  :-)

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

12 minutes ago, Aristotle83 said:

Yeah the fact tanks which at their absolute strongest have DD guns are the BB's of land says it all. The ocean is empty land you couldn't move around around a monster like that without causing insane collateral damage. The fort idea of keeping it stationary kind of makes sense but at that point why not just build an actual fort? 

Likely because of the wow factor such a status symbol could make. People often prefer the more impressive options even when something simple might be more practical.

And even today when we look back to WWII we are more often in awe of Battleships like Yamato as opposed to maybe a Cleveland cruiser.

Or the massive German Rail gun instead of a small squadron of the Heinkel He 111 bombers.

 

[Aristotle83]

15 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Likely because of the wow factor such a status symbol could make. People often prefer the more impressive options even when something simple might be more practical.

And even today when we look back to WWII we are more often in awe of Battleships like Yamato as opposed to maybe a Cleveland cruiser.

Or the massive German Rail gun instead of a small squadron of the Heinkel He 111 bombers.

 

Basically embodiment of white elephants. BB's and IMO CV's are both that today.

I knew the Rail Gun was powerful by the way, didn't know it was 30 inches plus. I know it's just 1 gun but jesus christ. 

[Aristotle83]

57 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

That reminded me of the "Bolo" tank novels.  :-)

 

This looks like a 90s video game covor. Wish someone had made this. 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

1 minute ago, Aristotle83 said:

Basically embodiment of white elephants. BB's and IMO CV's are both that today.

I knew the Rail Gun was powerful by the way, didn't know it was 30 inches plus. I know it's just 1 gun but jesus christ. 

Yeah as I heard one guy say : “ Nazi Germany did not have really have the resources to build some of the incredible engineering projects. And yet they still managed to build them anyway.”

I have to admit they did have quite a few impressive projects they built. If you like the 30 inch gun then try looking into some of the other projects like the mountain they were turning into ME 262 factory.  The Siegfried Line defenses. Horten 262 stealth jet. And the list goes on, but it’s incredible some of the projects they undertook and the scale of them.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

5 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Lol I have to admit the idea behind them is quite impressive, despite in reality practicality and the laws of physics prevent some fun ideas from working. 

However I have heard speculation that these may be possible which would be something fun at least. The HAVw A6 Juggernauts from Star Wars... Or at least something similar could be built most likely.

AFAIK, they never made a toy of the Clone Wars era Juggernaut to put action figures and stuff in.  If I was a kid still I would have loved that.

I grew up in the 1980s so I had those old school GI Joes and Star Wars figures, etc.  A big a** tank + transport would have been cool.  I remember my friend had the AT-AT.  Another dude I knew actually had the d*mn GI Joe aircraft carrier.

That thing...

I remember in the early-mid-1980s seeing on TV "Damnation Alley" and thought the derpy vehicle featured there was cool a.f.  That movie also had George Peppard, who I thought was great from the A-Team. 

So when Revenge of the Sith came out and I saw the Juggernaut, a little kid buried deep inside me got all excited.

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

6 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

AFAIK, they never made a toy of the Clone Wars era Juggernaut to put action figures and stuff in.  If I was a kid still I would have loved that.

I grew up in the 1980s so I had those old school GI Joes and Star Wars figures, etc.  A big a** tank + transport would have been cool.  I remember my friend had the AT-AT.  Another dude I knew actually had the d*mn GI Joe aircraft carrier.

That thing...

I remember in the early-mid-1980s seeing on TV "Damnation Alley" and thought the derpy vehicle featured there was cool a.f.  That movie also had George Peppard, who I thought was great from the A-Team. 

So when Revenge of the Sith came out and I saw the Juggernaut, a little kid buried deep inside me got all excited.

Lol actually they made the best toys of all of the Star Wars Juggernaut. They were LEGO. I grew up with good Lego collection and nice thing about them is you can modify and customize the vehicles so easily by swapping out pieces or adding some. You could apply some choice pieces to make it look Battle damaged or swap the weapons ect. 

( And if you wanted to you could still get some Sets and Lego is something your never too old for lol.

[Skyfaller]

On 5/24/2020 at 8:20 AM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Would love to know what possessed people to even consider this let alone think that it would be practical or even function?

Have to admit though it’s a pity the German Fleet was scuttled as I would have loved to have seen the Allied nations attempt this idea lol. (I would imagine they would need a great surplus of warships before they would be granted the go ahead to try this.)

 

The Germans did have designs for something similar. 

Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte

 

Designer	Krupp
Specifications
Mass	1,000 tonnes (1,100 short tons; 980 long tons), estimated
Length	35 m (115 ft) hull 39 m (128 ft) guns forwards
Width	14 m (46 ft)
Height	11 m (36 ft)
Crew	20+, possibly as many as 41
Armor	150–360 mm (5.9–14.2 in)
Main armament	2 × 280 mm 54.5 SK C/34
Secondary armament	1 × 128 mm KwK 44 L/55 8 × 20 mm Flak38 2 × 15 mm MG 151/15

 

On a side note, if you want to read sci-fi stories based on the 'land battleship tank' concept, look up the BOLO! series. They're simply amazing. 

[Sventex]

15 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah as I heard one guy say : “ Nazi Germany did not have really have the resources to build some of the incredible engineering projects. And yet they still managed to build them anyway.”

I have to admit they did have quite a few impressive projects they built. If you like the 30 inch gun then try looking into some of the other projects like the mountain they were turning into ME 262 factory.  The Siegfried Line defenses. Horten 262 stealth jet. And the list goes on, but it’s incredible some of the projects they undertook and the scale of them.

That can be viewed as a form of propaganda and denial.  With the Eastern Front approaching Berlin everyday and with Allied planes swarming the skies, they needed something to cling to.  For all the effort the Germans took to build the Siegfried Line, after the Battle of the Bulge the Allies quickly penetrated the line at 4 points and began invading the German heartlands.  In Japan they trained all the women to fight with spears and naginatas for the coming Allied invasion of the home islands.  Yeah it might seem incredible and progressive to treat all your women as warriors and have them defend their homeland but you can also see this as another form of propaganda and denial.

[Lord_Slayer]

On 5/24/2020 at 10:47 PM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

 Horten 262 stealth jet. 

I seem to recall a show on National Geo where they made a replica Ho229.

Based on their tests, it was detectable by the British Radar system, but detectable closer to England then conventional aircraft.

I also believe the show stated that stealth was far from the German's minds with this aircraft. Its only with modern eyes, having now seen the F-117 and B-2 that people questioned the Ho229 as a stealth fighter.

 

[Admiral_Thrawn_1]

4 hours ago, Lord_Slayer said:

I seem to recall a show on National Geo where they made a replica Ho229.

Based on their tests, it was detectable by the British Radar system, but detectable closer to England then conventional aircraft.

I also believe the show stated that stealth was far from the German's minds with this aircraft. Its only with modern eyes, having now seen the F-117 and B-2 that people questioned the Ho229 as a stealth fighter.

 

Because the US would keep it as classified until more recently because we started figuring out what the reasoning behind the design was.

[HazeGrayUnderway]

On 5/25/2020 at 5:30 AM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Lol actually they made the best toys of all of the Star Wars Juggernaut. They were LEGO. I grew up with good Lego collection and nice thing about them is you can modify and customize the vehicles so easily by swapping out pieces or adding some. You could apply some choice pieces to make it look Battle damaged or swap the weapons ect. 

( And if you wanted to you could still get some Sets and Lego is something your never too old for lol.

My Dad had gotten me the GI Joe APC before I saw Damnation Alley on TV.

But after seeing the movie, the APC became cooler in my eyes.  I imagined my Joes going across some wasteland with that thing as their mobile base.