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IfYouSeeKhaos

Should damaged (but not destroyed) AA get repaired w/DC

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A thread was started a few days ago asking for destroyed AA mounts to be repaired.

I was thinking about the concept & thought that if something is destroyed (guns/torps) it stays destroyed & should remain a constant throughout but as for damaged AA guns that haven't been destroyed I think they should be repairable (back to full health) w/either an over time HP added back to them or just instantly when the DC consumable is used ( was thinking having it tied to the heal but that would only allow some ships the option while others don't get it).

This won't make it where by the end of the match a CV needs to face full AA compliments while their plane squadrons may be short on planes but will allow AA ships that had damaged but not destroyed AA mounts another chance to take a hit to them & have some  still survive.

The idea is personnel were taken out & crews were sent in to replace them or minor damage occurred that was repaired.

The downside to this would be needing to somehow show how many AA mounts may benefit from the DC usage as opposed to wasting the DC charge for no benefit.

Obviously having an icon for each AA gun would be impractical for ships w/even 20+ AA mounts (let alone 50+) but maybe a place somewhere where (for example) there's a set of numbers such as 27/50 19/27 (w/the 19 red) stating there's 27 of an original 50 AA mounts operational but that 19 of them are damaged...again just an example.

Thoughts & suggestions (on the whole concept...not just optional indicator suggestions) welcome.

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11 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

A thread was started a few days ago asking for destroyed AA mounts to be repaired.

I was thinking about the concept & thought that if something is destroyed (guns/torps) it stays destroyed & should remain a constant throughout but as for damaged AA guns that haven't been destroyed I think they should be repairable (back to full health) w/either an over time HP added back to them or just instantly when the DC consumable is used ( was thinking having it tied to the heal but that would only allow some ships the option while others don't get it).

This won't make it where by the end of the match a CV needs to face full AA compliments while their plane squadrons may be short on planes but will allow AA ships that had damaged but not destroyed AA mounts another chance to take a hit to them & have some  still survive.

The idea is personnel were taken out & crews were sent in to replace them or minor damage occurred that was repaired.

The downside to this would be needing to somehow show how many AA mounts may benefit from the DC usage as opposed to wasting the DC charge for no benefit.

Obviously having an icon for each AA gun would be impractical for ships w/even 20+ AA mounts (let alone 50+) but maybe a place somewhere where (for example) there's a set of numbers such as 27/50 19/27 (w/the 19 red) stating there's 27 of an original 50 AA mounts operational but that 19 of them are damaged...again just an example.

Thoughts & suggestions (on the whole concept...not just optional indicator suggestions) welcome.

In terms of icons, they are already very simplified for AA. Instead of even showing how many (#) AA guns exist, pressing H now only shows the max range and %AA operational:

image.png.779088a3992ae6d15f82b29385d05298.png

In the past (before the CV rework) the number of short/medium/long range AA guns were displayed. There's no need for fancy icons, only to further divide "Status of AA Mounts" into 2 categories: "Damaged" and "Destroyed."

I definitely think your idea is interesting. Not sure how much impact this change will have in reality though.

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26 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

The idea is personnel were taken out & crews were sent in to replace them or minor damage occurred that was repaired.

The downside to this would be needing to somehow show how many AA mounts may benefit from the DC usage as opposed to wasting the DC charge for no benefit.

Interesting concept, and I think it's a fair one to explore.

The first thing that came to mind was an inverse mechanic to the AA sector boost. So let's say one side of the ship was hit by rockets--I'll use those for example--that side can go down to say 60% AA power for 10-15 seconds. Again I'm using random numbers, but that can be indicated in the same space when the AA sector boost is activated and when it's cooling down.

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18 minutes ago, RipNuN2 said:

Currently AA guns are either operational or destroyed. 

But they do take damage (from HE splash) sometimes w/out being destroyed...not sure if those damaged ones that survive are counted as full heath for the next attack or if they have built up damage accumulated from multiple hits.

Assuming it builds up & was suggesting those be repairable.

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I think damaged AA should be repairable and restored. Destroyed are done for. Should be similar to tubes and turrets. I'd like to see radar and flight decks added to the list.

Edited by thebigblue
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38 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

I think damaged AA should be repairable and restored. Destroyed are done for. Should be similar to tubes and turrets. I'd like to see radar and flight decks added to the list.

Radar is a consumable & can't be destroyed...only charges used up & flight decks don't get damaged to where planes have any type of detriment to launching or landing (since rework) so their damage is purely HP removed from the ship which applies to any area of the ship that has been damaged.

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6 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Radar is a consumable & can't be destroyed...only charges used up & flight decks don't get damaged to where planes have any type of detriment to launching or landing (since rework) so their damage is purely HP removed from the ship which applies to any area of the ship that has been damaged.

Right. I get it. I'm suggesting they should be added to the list of things that can be damaged or destroyed. If a cruiser has 15% HP remaining and has lost a turret we can reasonably presume that AA mounts are toast and surely the radar has been disabled. Why the hell should a ship with tons of damage still have garranteed use of radar or flight deck? I play a lot of cruisers so this doesn't really benefit me but it's always sort of bugged me. Radar and flight decks, whether they be  consumable or module,  should suffer damag and demolishment like everything else.

And no, I'm definitely NOT a DD mafioso.

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30 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

Right. I get it. I'm suggesting they should be added to the list of things that can be damaged or destroyed. If a cruiser has 15% HP remaining and has lost a turret we can reasonably presume that AA mounts are toast and surely the radar has been disabled. Why the hell should a ship with tons of damage still have garranteed use of radar or flight deck? I play a lot of cruisers so this doesn't really benefit me but it's always sort of bugged me. Radar and flight decks, whether they be  consumable or module,  should suffer damag and demolishment like everything else.

And no, I'm definitely NOT a DD mafioso.

Flight decks used to at least have the need for fire to be out to launch/land (sans commander skill which still delayed them) but that got borked in the rebork.

Radar was definitely easily damaged but incapacitated & destroyed turrets can be attributed to the radar used for aiming being destroyed so there is that aspect of it (albeit subtly) in game...sort of.

As for the consumable they could add an incapacitated option (now that all premium consumables are free & no possible doubloons are wasted on that) but would need to apply it to hydro also I'd think.

If nothing else at least a 20 second delay (at whatever point in the activation time it happens) & the charge is still used whether anything is in range when it comes back on or not. IOW it would still get the full activation time but if incapacitated it stops working & the rest of it's activation time continues (or maybe w/a 10 second activation time reduction) after the incapacitation time runs out.

Straight up destroying it would be hard to balance in the game as each ship can have it's equipment in different places & that would just be way too much extra details of ship layout to learn to be able to aim directly for it on a ship by ship basis...although the radar array at the top of the ship is pretty standard but easily knocked out being that easy to aim for.

Although it does seem like it would be way too easy for it to just be knocked out all the time w/all the HE spam also.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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1 hour ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Flight decks used to at least have the need for fire to be out to launch/land (sans commander skill which still delayed them) but that got borked in the rebork.

Radar was definitely easily damaged but incapacitated & destroyed turrets can be attributed to the radar used for aiming being destroyed so there is that aspect of it (albeit subtly) in game...sort of.

As for the consumable they could add an incapacitated option (now that all premium consumables are free & no possible doubloons are wasted on that) but would need to apply it to hydro also I'd think.

If nothing else at least a 20 second delay (at whatever point in the activation time it happens) & the charge is still used whether anything is in range when it comes back on or not. IOW it would still get the full activation time but if incapacitated it stops working & the rest of it's activation time continues (or maybe w/a 10 second activation time reduction) after the incapacitation time runs out.

Straight up destroying it would be hard to balance in the game as each ship can have it's equipment in different places & that would just be way too much extra details of ship layout to learn to be able to aim directly for it on a ship by ship basis...although the radar array at the top of the ship is pretty standard but easily knocked out being that easy to aim for.

Although it does seem like it would be way too easy for it to just be knocked out all the time w/all the HE spam also.

I agree with much of your reply. I think you have some very well thought out concepts and concerns. I also think you might be overthinking it a little. All I'm saying is treat radar like an AA mount and treat hydro like a rudder or engine. If it gets hit it's takes some damage. If it gets hit enough or hard enough it gets knocked out until repaired. If it gets hit again it's destroyed. I realize some ships lose a key component. Too bad. When a destroyer loses a tube it loses half or more of its primary reason to exist. When a battle ship gets a turret knocked out, especially a forward turret , it loses half it's purpose. Consumables like radar and hydro are similarly critical components and shouldn't be some sacred cow.

Edited by thebigblue

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More RNG like consumables being knocked out won't fly with WG. Complex doesn't go well with the instant gratification crowd.

Agree with making AA repairable, but that means AA mounts' health bars need to be visible. How to persuade WG to trial it?

Simpler to have DC restore 2 AA mounts per use, but require a captain skill to do it.

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7 hours ago, thebigblue said:

Consumables like radar and hydro are similarly critical components and shouldn't be some sacred cow.

Agree theoretically but for some lower tier ships it's the only cow they got in the sea (that isn't in the mess hall stew pot anyway).

As it's in consumable form presently if it has the chance of getting knocked out other consumables (such as healing/smoke generators/engine boost/DFAA/TRB/etc) would also need to have the same chance of being knocked out...but...as I suggested before

4 hours ago, Reymu said:

More RNG like consumables being knocked out won't fly with WG.

Maybe now that they have made the premium 1s all standard (aka they are free & there's no $ cost even available for them anymore) that might (possibly...no insider info being implied here) be where they are going w/them...or at least they have the option if they so choose (although giving extra charges & quicker reload times would need to be implemented at the same time I would think).

Could make for some interesting strategy changes needing to deal w/the possibility anyway.

4 hours ago, Reymu said:

Agree with making AA repairable, but that means AA mounts' health bars need to be visible. How to persuade WG to trial it?

Simpler to have DC restore 2 AA mounts per use, but require a captain skill to do it.

The health bars is definitely undoable as some ships have over 50 different AA mounts (can't display them all individually & a single bar for all would be hard to decipher w/out numbers above to clarify exact amounts).

The set number/DC charge (2 could be used as a basis w/nation specific variances) might work but would be hard to balance w/out either allowing destroyed ones to be repaired in some instances (which I'm personally against...I believe the dead should not be able to be risen from the grave or we'll soon have zombie AA mounts...which might be good for the Halloween ships but may open the door to "Ships vs Zombies"...[insert Lurch groan here]).

Also...some ships have different sized/some armored & some unarmored AA mounts & that could cause imbalances in the amount of AA restored based on damaged/destroyed ones available for repairing when the DC charge is used.

That was my reasoning (although not clarified in OP so it didn't turn into a novel) for suggesting all that are damaged get repaired w/DC or that any damaged ones immediately start healing as soon as damaged...if they even retain their damage (which is something I'm not sure of now that it was mentioned by RipNuN2 that):

11 hours ago, RipNuN2 said:

Currently AA guns are either operational or destroyed. 

Do you know 1 way or the other if previously damaged 1s retain previous damage...I was just assuming w/my reply before but am not sure.

Unfortunately if not my whole thread is a moot point (-: unless the zombies are released :-)

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3 hours ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

Do you know 1 way or the other if previously damaged 1s retain previous damage...I was just assuming w/my reply before but am not sure.

Unfortunately if not my whole thread is a moot point (-: unless the zombies are released :-)

I think they do lose hp until destroyed but they never get incapacitated, only destroyed. I guess I could test it in the training room lol

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