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Elo_J_Fudpucker

The REALLY short version

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4 minutes ago, Elo_J_Fudpucker said:

It's only an opinion... :D
 

 

Firstly: OP, thank you for the summary.

Secondly: Unpopular opinion, but a potato is going to be a potato regardless if they have thousands of hours or none at all. In fact, I find the fresh potatoes to be the ones more willing to learn. Yes I get the frustration and the notion we should go back to the grind, but that doesn’t fix the inherent problem Flambass wants to address even if he thinks it would. The game has been out for years now, and the potatoes have their ships. At this point, what’s the purpose in turning the game into a super grind? The gameplay won’t change, and the new people would be hugely turned off by the grind.

I play another similar grindy Tank/Plane/Ship game, and the grind is AWFUL. I count my blessings I am up to date, because coming in, if I wanted a top of the line plane or tank, I would spend an entire year grinding for it. And that’s one line. 

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10 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

Secondly: Unpopular opinion, but a potato is going to be a potato regardless if they have thousands of hours or none at all. In fact, I find the fresh potatoes to be the ones more willing to learn. Yes I get the frustration and the notion we should go back to the grind, but that doesn’t fix the inherent problem Flambass wants to address even if he thinks it would. The game has been out for years now, and the potatoes have their ships. At this point, what’s the purpose in turning the game into a super grind? The gameplay won’t change, and the new people would be hugely turned off by the grind.

This isn't that unpopular. The reality is that bad players don't magically become better when they hit certain game thresholds.

A phrase my music private lesson teacher used to say was "practice makes permanent." People often think "practice makes perfect" but this isn't true. You don't somehow become more enlightened doing the wrong things over and over again. 

If you practice bad habits, that's worse than doing nothing. 

The inherent problem here is the game doesn't help you understand and practice good habits.

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19 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

This isn't that unpopular. The reality is that bad players don't magically become better when they hit certain game thresholds.

A phrase my music private lesson teacher used to say was "practice makes permanent." People often think "practice makes perfect" but this isn't true. You don't somehow become more enlightened doing the wrong things over and over again. 

If you practice bad habits, that's worse than doing nothing. 

The inherent problem here is the game doesn't help you understand and practice good habits.

Correct. And I think that is what needs to change, not making the grind longer like Flambass suggests. Goodness, I mean even that other game has a basic tutorial teaching you how things work.

Edited by Usedcarjock

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KPcGOMF.gif

 

I wonder just how many times you are going to keep posting the same "topic" over and over...... and over.....

 

FYI this "opinion" has been around longer than the game has actually been public... and for that matter (IF you even bothered to READ your last FLAMBASSFANBOI thread), is in EVERY online game that involves actual PEOPLE...

You seem to belittle people who, in your opinion, do not "READ" your threads and posts, especially when they disagree with you (let's face reality though, we ALL disagree with you 94% of the time) yet you keep posting the same thing, in different varieties, over and over...and don't seem to bother to READ all the posts by the players with actual facts, reason, and explanations to dispute OPINION
To what end???
WE get it, most players are average, more suck than are good, and tier ten is vastly made up of below average players...
MOVE ON or MOVE OUT...

this subject is way past dead horse memes....

pMSH5x9.gif

 

and you are not being constructive in the way you go about doing this, it is all hearsay and OPINION....and in my OPINION, that is non constructive 

Edited by neptunes_wrath
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32 minutes ago, neptunes_wrath said:

KPcGOMF.gif

 

I wonder just how many times you are going to keep posting the same "topic" over and over...... and over.....

 

Well. you are right about it...

But this would be my first time addressing this topic, so I'm not yet jaded about it

1 hour ago, Usedcarjock said:

Firstly: OP, thank you for the summary.

Secondly: Unpopular opinion, but a potato is going to be a potato regardless if they have thousands of hours or none at all. In fact, I find the fresh potatoes to be the ones more willing to learn. Yes I get the frustration and the notion we should go back to the grind, but that doesn’t fix the inherent problem Flambass wants to address even if he thinks it would. The game has been out for years now, and the potatoes have their ships. At this point, what’s the purpose in turning the game into a super grind? The gameplay won’t change, and the new people would be hugely turned off by the grind.

I play another similar grindy Tank/Plane/Ship game, and the grind is AWFUL. I count my blessings I am up to date, because coming in, if I wanted a top of the line plane or tank, I would spend an entire year grinding for it. And that’s one line. 

We have to be realistic. Years ago, it was common for MMO to be grindy, it took years to achieve "high level" status but the market has changed. Now a grind is considered boring, players gravitate to easier progression games (heck, my daugther is already level 50+ in Fornite after a week of start playing the game, I don't know what it implies and neither does she, but she is happy about it). Like it or not, Warships has to adapt unless they want to become dinosaurs and go extinct, you also have to deal with the huge disparity in resources between newer and older players.

Imagine yourself as a new player, with low level captains, no upgrades, no boosters, no access to special mods AND rookie skill level... playing against a veteran with all the goodies AND veteran skill level; then consider it would only take you about a year or two to have the goodies meanwhile working in improving your skills.  I would probably say, thank you very much, not interested. Now if at least you had access to the goodies (and  it is an idea you can sell easily in a staff meeting cuz obvious $$$ opportunities), at least the gap would be reduced ONLY to the skill level. 

The game has ever had potato/rookies, the only thing that has changed is that now you find them in every tier and every game mode. Is that detrimental to the game experience quality? Maybe... but I'm not sold on the idea. Mixing rookies and veterans in a random match has ever been the thing with WG games and as much salt and curses it provokes, I think it is better than the alternative. It is true PvP pure old school Darwinism, you get spanked until you learn to spank yourself and do the spanking.

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At this point you're just spamming the same topic ad nauseam. Repetition does not create validity. If you're that unsatisfied with the game then leave and try a different game.

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tenor.gif

 

It took months because low and mid tiers where fun.. Now, the whole game is not fun... People are escaping low tier battles to get away from the CVs...

All thanks to the changes started back in the beginning of 2018... As far as WG sees the situation, "Mission Accomplished." They have made tier 10 the focus at the expense of the game itself.

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1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

 

tenor.gif

 

It took months because low and mid tiers where fun.. Now, the whole game is not fun... People are escaping low tier battles to get away from the CVs...

All thanks to the changes started back in the beginning of 2018... As far as WG sees the situation, "Mission Accomplished." They have made tier 10 the focus at the expense of the game itself.

There must be some fun to be had, else people wouldn't play the game.

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7 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

There must be some fun to be had, else people wouldn't play the game.

For some I agree, for the majority... Many have moved on, the game is having difficulty growing players... Heck its having a hard time maintaining...

Those who do stay, its equivalent to the girl in a toxic relationship thinking she can change him (its not going to happen, she believes and holds out hope)...Or in a relationship in where pain is the befit over fun, either way, the game is not in a healthy position to thrive...

 

Edited by Navalpride33

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6 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

For some I agree, for the majority... Many have moved on, the game is having difficulty growing players... Heck its having a hard time maintaining...

Those who do stay, its equivalent to the girl in a toxic relationship thinking she can change him (its not going to happen, she believes and holds out hope)...Or in a relationship in where pain is the befit over fun, either way, the game is not in a healthy position to thrive...

 

Neither the other way, keep the status quo and all you get is betting on keeping an old core of players that would get bored anyway. There is a limit to the number of times you can press the same Battle button until you get utterly bored of it. Without new players influx, any game is dead man walking.

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2 hours ago, neptunes_wrath said:

KPcGOMF.gif

 

I wonder just how many times you are going to keep posting the same "topic" over and over...... and over.....

 

FYI this "opinion" has been around longer than the game has actually been public... and for that matter (IF you even bothered to READ your last FLAMBASSFANBOI thread), is in EVERY online game that involves actual PEOPLE...

You seem to belittle people who, in your opinion, do not "READ" your threads and posts, especially when they disagree with you (let's face reality though, we ALL disagree with you 94% of the time) yet you keep posting the same thing, in different varieties, over and over...and don't seem to bother to READ all the posts by the players with actual facts, reason, and explanations to dispute OPINION
To what end???
WE get it, most players are average, more suck than are good, and tier ten is vastly made up of below average players...
MOVE ON or MOVE OUT...

this subject is way past dead horse memes....

pMSH5x9.gif

 

and you are not being constructive in the way you go about doing this, it is all hearsay and OPINION....and in my OPINION, that is non constructive 

Is the video in the initial post (because I'm not clicking it for views) along the lines of the OP's thread from only 22 hours ago?  Because it sounds like it.

 

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I agree it should be slowed a bit, mostly to give new players a little more time to learn the game and experienced players some time to learn how to play new ships properly..

All the various XP flags that you can stack has created XP power creep where it's easy for an experienced player to breeze thru a line. if you stack all the best flags with premium you can probably get 20k+ XP in a single match.

Part of the problem is that gamers are conditioned to have a "must get to max tier" outlook in most games, where "end game" play modes are not available until you've maxed your level and geared up.

This is not the case in WoWS.. You can get the same(or more) satisfaction and 95% of the game play of tier 10 while playing tier 6 or 8 or whatever. There is nothing magical that happens and little content unlocked when you move from tier 9 to tier 10. Many players with multiple tier 10s actually prefer the meta and gameplay at other tiers.

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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WG devs: "We play our game"

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or howabout it took monnnthss to finish ur first 19 pt captain then while you were SOOOOOO proud of him ........the VERY first day they NERFED the hell out of the Helena he was in...  not exactly the same thing as the op but I just had to add this... rotfl

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31 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Is the video in the initial post (because I'm not clicking it for views) along the lines of the OP's thread from only 22 hours ago?  Because it sounds like it.

 

skwYHmb.gif

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3 hours ago, enderland07 said:

The reality is that bad players don't magically become better when they hit certain game thresholds.

I resemble that remark. Dammit.

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46 minutes ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

I agree it should be slowed a bit, mostly to give new players a little more time to learn the game and experienced players some time to learn how to play new ships properly..

All the various XP flags that you can stack has created XP power creep where it's easy for an experienced player to breeze thru a line. if you stack all the best flags with premium you can probably get 20k+ XP in a single match.

Part of the problem is that gamers are conditioned to have a "must get to max tier" outlook in most games, where "end game" play modes are not available until you've maxed your level and geared up.

This is not the case in WoWS.. You can get the same(or more) satisfaction and 95% of the game play of tier 10 while playing tier 6 or 8 or whatever. There is nothing magical that happens and little content unlocked when you move from tier 9 to tier 10. Many players with multiple tier 10s actually prefer the meta and gameplay at other tiers.

Slowing things down isn't going to do anything.

Exactly what about playing longer, more battles is going to make someone improve?  It isn't.  If anything, a bad player just playing more battles while doing the same thing game in, game out, is only reinforcing bad habits.

 

There is no difference from a newbie that doesn't know what he's doing at 300 Battles to a Potato with 43% WR and 5000 Random Battles.

The "experienced" Potato is worse, IMO.  He is set in his ways, reinforcing bad match habits over the course of thousands and thousands of games.  That 43% WR didn't get there by accident.  He is always going to be a detriment to the team.  How would slowing the game down prevent this?

 

A few days ago I had to correct a veteran forum member in his thread because he was promoting a completely erroneous "fact" that a certain ship he likes in the French Battleship line is less prone to being caught on fire than all the others.  He's been here for years, and spreading misinformation that he thought was correct.  That's fundamental game mechanics stuff.  And he was completely wrong and getting others to believe it. 

A veteran player with thousands of Random Battles recorded being 100% wrong on a fundamental aspect of the game and getting others to believe it.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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1 hour ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

I agree it should be slowed a bit, mostly to give new players a little more time to learn the game and experienced players some time to learn how to play new ships properly..

Part of the problem is that gamers are conditioned to have a "must get to max tier" outlook in most games, where "end game" play modes are not available until you've maxed your level and geared up.

You have to consider, all the boosts are optional. You as a player, are not forced to rush up the ladder unless you want to. WG does its play trying to entice to go Top Tier ASAP because thats were money comes from, but you are not forced to play along. You decide what you do and what you buy, as with most other situations. 

Yes, there are tools to ease the grind, and they are useful, I think at this stage of its shelf life, the game can't afford not having them. But you as a player are not forced to use them and go out of your depth unless you want to.

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51 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Slowing things down isn't going to do anything.

Exactly what about playing longer, more battles is going to make someone improve?  It isn't.  If anything, a bad player just playing more battles while doing the same thing game in, game out, is only reinforcing bad habits.

 

There is no difference from a newbie that doesn't know what he's doing at 300 Battles to a Potato with 43% WR and 5000 Random Battles.

The "experienced" Potato is worse, IMO.  He is set in his ways, reinforcing bad match habits over the course of thousands and thousands of games.  That 43% WR didn't get there by accident.  He is always going to be a detriment to the team.  How would slowing the game down prevent this?

 

A few days ago I had to correct a veteran forum member in his thread because he was promoting a completely erroneous "fact" that a certain ship he likes in the French Battleship line is less prone to being caught on fire than all the others.  He's been here for years, and spreading misinformation that he thought was correct.  That's fundamental game mechanics stuff.  And he was completely wrong and getting others to believe it. 

A veteran player with thousands of Random Battles recorded being 100% wrong on a fundamental aspect of the game and getting others to believe it.

Experience does not guarantee improvement, there will always be a % of bad players that don't get better. However for most players experience does help their skill development.

Edited by Dr_Powderfinger

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1 hour ago, Dr_Powderfinger said:

Experience does not guarantee improvement, there will always be a % of bad players that don't get better. However for most players experience does help their skill development.

It's not 5% bad players.  Bad players make up the majority of this game.  Someone just breaking even at 50% WR is actually exceptional compared to what makes up this game population.

image.thumb.png.2bf620649441be1ab1d3ad9ee6254410.png

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Slowing things down isn't going to do anything.

Exactly what about playing longer, more battles is going to make someone improve?  It isn't.  If anything, a bad player just playing more battles while doing the same thing game in, game out, is only reinforcing bad habits.

 

There is no difference from a newbie that doesn't know what he's doing at 300 Battles to a Potato with 43% WR and 5000 Random Battles.

The "experienced" Potato is worse, IMO.  He is set in his ways, reinforcing bad match habits over the course of thousands and thousands of games.  That 43% WR didn't get there by accident.  He is always going to be a detriment to the team.  How would slowing the game down prevent this?

 

A few days ago I had to correct a veteran forum member in his thread because he was promoting a completely erroneous "fact" that a certain ship he likes in the French Battleship line is less prone to being caught on fire than all the others.  He's been here for years, and spreading misinformation that he thought was correct.  That's fundamental game mechanics stuff.  And he was completely wrong and getting others to believe it. 

A veteran player with thousands of Random Battles recorded being 100% wrong on a fundamental aspect of the game and getting others to believe it.

Stupid kids. Some people are just worser with logicular thinking. Everyone knows it's the Central African Republics battleships that are less prone to fire due to the dry climate in which the steel is grown.  It's one of the few aspects of this game that is scientificerally correct.

Edited by thebigblue

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Does it come as a big surprise that someone who has played this game for years (and says he plays 5-8 hours per day) and is probably far better than average can grind up a line very quickly?  That's how virtually all of the online "FTP" games I've played over the years work, if that player pays attention to learning some mechanics and improving his play along the way.  

I started playing about 1 1/2 months ago have less than 600 battles (random and coop combined).  For me that's a lot of playing (and will slow down soon due to RL commitments).  I will probably unlock my first tier 7 ship the next time I play.  My best captains are a couple 8 pointers.  I don't think this is too fast. but it's probably slower than average.  Unlike the OP, I have been grinding several lines at once to try different boats and play styles.  I haven't paid for premium time or higher tier ships.  You don't get many signals or camo's in the lowest tiers.  I think it's around tier 4 or 5 that you can start getting them more regularly from missions and campaigns.   

I was able to progress through the first 3 or 4 tiers fairly quickly, but then it starts slowing down.  It seems like going tier 6 to 7 probably took as long as going from 1 to 6.  I anticipate each tier will be progressively slower for me but based on what I've read I'm content to stay around this tier for a while.  I have made a small purchase to support the game but not for things that significantly speed up the grind.

So Flambass can grind a line in 6 hours with all of his advantages (knowledge and skill perhaps being his biggest advantage) and on the other extreme a new player who doesn't pay to accelerate up the tiers has only made tier 7 in about 6 weeks.  I don't think progress is too fast unless you're paying to bypass the grind, and jumping ahead.  I don't think it's the speed of the grind that bothers most of you, it's the ability to pay to bypass it.  But the game has to be profitable and I don't see how you avoid that problem.

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On 5/23/2020 at 8:37 AM, enderland07 said:

This isn't that unpopular. The reality is that bad players don't magically become better when they hit certain game thresholds.

A phrase my music private lesson teacher used to say was "practice makes permanent." People often think "practice makes perfect" but this isn't true. You don't somehow become more enlightened doing the wrong things over and over again. 

If you practice bad habits, that's worse than doing nothing. 

The inherent problem here is the game doesn't help you understand and practice good habits.

Multiplayer games generally do no teaching to a significant degree in getting better in the game.  There's tutorial stages about fundamental controls or how to use some added element to the game, but that's it.

There is no instruction on "getting gud" in MMORPGs, FPS games like Call of Duty and Battlefield, and most especially a game like World of Warships.

Once you're past the tutorial stages, you're on your own.  Sink or swim.

 

I also agree that bad habits get reinforced by repetition.  I've said a bunch of times around the boards that simply spamming the "BATTLE!" button isn't going to make a player better.  You can see that already if one looks various players up.

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