Jump to content
You need to play a total of 10 battles to post in this section.
Admiral_Thrawn_1

When Will Sinop Be Nerfed And How?

37 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

3,393
[RKLES]
Members
12,444 posts
14,160 battles

With the sheer number of Sinop and how stubborn they can be to sink, plus his hard they can hit. I really think Sinop could use some nerfs and likely will see nerfs. You can also add in the fact that Sinop has developed a reputation for being idiot proof method of going into battle and having almost guaranteed amount of survival time and damage dealt. Which is something almost no ship enjoys, at least not for long anyway.

  • Boring 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
735
[CK5]
Members
1,316 posts
13,338 battles

Sinope's are not invulnerable.  Catch them on the broadside and they go down quickly enough.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
602
[90TH]
Members
1,147 posts
10,869 battles

“Never” and “not at all.” 
That doesn’t mean they’re not OP....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,356
[RKLES]
[RKLES]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
5,710 posts
19,631 battles
1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

With the sheer number of Sinop and how stubborn they can be to sink, plus his hard they can hit. I really think Sinop could use some nerfs and likely will see nerfs. You can also add in the fact that Sinop has developed a reputation for being idiot proof method of going into battle and having almost guaranteed amount of survival time and damage dealt. Which is something almost no ship enjoys, at least not for long anyway.

I take it you have not played it in randoms...

Flank it and watch the player cry...

....

True the guns hit hard.

True it's  a beast nose in.

But it sits high and takes citadel damage easy. 

With limited dam cons, you just burn them down.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
82
[NG-NL]
Members
213 posts
8,746 battles

Sinops taste good with ketchup. And Swedish Fish.

But then, I mostly play DDs, and I know how the Russian BBs have to hoard their damage control uses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,393
[RKLES]
Members
12,444 posts
14,160 battles
2 hours ago, PrairiePlayer said:

Sinope's are not invulnerable.  Catch them on the broadside and they go down quickly enough.  

I know they are far from invulnerable as I do sink them often enough, but they are a bit much for the general players compared to most other tier 7 BBs. Really think they need maybe a little dispersion nerf perhaps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6
[RST]
Members
38 posts
3,434 battles

I haven't seen one citadeled at any angle, not even full broadside at close range. Literally not one. None in my ranked matches anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,160 posts
60 battles

Sinop is only as great as played by the hands of a competent player & it's just as bad as played by the hands of an incompetent, period.

No amount of demands for a buff or a nerf could change that in a significant way, just to conform your standards or your view on things.

Just because the ship seems well-designed in the eyes of the experienced, doesn't mean it's noob-friendly when there's a limited damage control consumable quirk that limits the survival capability - damage control discipline comes in play.

On 5/23/2020 at 12:37 PM, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I know they are far from invulnerable as I do sink them often enough, but they are a bit much for the general players compared to most other tier 7 BBs. Really think they need maybe a little dispersion nerf perhaps.

Dispersion nerf won't help much either. It would only make it worse to trying hit something beyond 12.0 km (don't take computer programming too lightly, you make my words). Even I was struggling to hit a cruiser beyond that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,393
[RKLES]
Members
12,444 posts
14,160 battles
13 hours ago, Xero_Snake said:

Sinop is only as great as played by the hands of a competent player & it's just as bad as played by the hands of an incompetent, period.

No amount of demands for a buff or a nerf could change that in a significant way, just to conform your standards or your view on things.

Just because the ship seems well-designed in the eyes of the experienced, doesn't mean it's noob-friendly when there's a limited damage control consumable quirk that limits the survival capability - damage control discipline comes in play.

Dispersion nerf won't help much either. It would only make it worse to trying hit something beyond 12.0 km (don't take computer programming too lightly, you make my words). Even I was struggling to hit a cruiser beyond that.

Which is likely why a Sinop was such a beast this Ranked season since with the maps in the rotation the engagement ranges were shortest and as such made Sinop able to easily fight under 12km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
312
[BIER]
Members
453 posts
6,526 battles
2 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Which is likely why a Sinop was such a beast this Ranked season since with the maps in the rotation the engagement ranges were shortest and as such made Sinop able to easily fight under 12km.

Not to mention plenty of nice islands (usually situated conveniently next to a cap) to protect its flanks from. Pretty much all the maps were fabulous for a bow-tanking BB with laser-like shells and a virgin-tight dispersion.

Gee, it was almost like this Ranked Season was tailor-made for the Sinop to dominate.

I'm *sure* that wasn't a consideration.

(rolls eyes)

Edited by LAnybody

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,393
[RKLES]
Members
12,444 posts
14,160 battles
45 minutes ago, LAnybody said:

Not to mention plenty of nice islands (usually situated conveniently next to a cap) to protect its flanks from. Pretty much all the maps were fabulous for a bow-tanking BB with laser-like shells and a virgin-tight dispersion.

Gee, it was almost like this Ranked Season was tailor-made for the Sinop to dominate.

I'm *sure* that wasn't a consideration.

(rolls eyes)

Yeah funny how that worked out isn’t it? And any BB that could take out a bow tanking Sinop would not be able to keep the range optimal to protect against counter fire while still keeping line of sight with the target on most maps. Ships like the tier 7 IJN BBs which carry 16” guns and could breach the Sinop armor but could not deal with return fire unless the range was long enough suffered. Other BBs simply could not breach that Sinop armor unless they caught it side on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
312
[BIER]
Members
453 posts
6,526 battles
1 hour ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Yeah funny how that worked out isn’t it? And any BB that could take out a bow tanking Sinop would not be able to keep the range optimal to protect against counter fire while still keeping line of sight with the target on most maps. Ships like the tier 7 IJN BBs which carry 16” guns and could breach the Sinop armor but could not deal with return fire unless the range was long enough suffered. Other BBs simply could not breach that Sinop armor unless they caught it side on.

and worse, those nice little spots completely protected Sinops from torpedoes on the flanks, and given everything has really crappy dispersion on their torps, the likelihood of a bow-on hit is quite low.  The proximity to caps gave you massive warning that a DD was about to torp you. Notice that pretty much all the caps are... about 7km in diameter or VERY slightly less.  Notice that's the range of the Jervis' torpedoes - the sole DD with the torps best suited to take on a bow-tanking Sinop.  So a Sinop 0.5km outside a cap can pretty much completely dominate a cap, with very, very little counterplay.

The real major threat to that Sinop is an IFHE-enabled Helena, as it's got the shell arcs to get over islands without exposing itself to the Sinop deleting it. But even there, it take a LONG time to burn down/kill a ship that has best-in-tier HP.  When even that IFHE-enabled Helena is lucky to get 4k per salvo damage due to the narrow target profile.

 

Yep. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,393
[RKLES]
Members
12,444 posts
14,160 battles
6 minutes ago, LAnybody said:

and worse, those nice little spots completely protected Sinops from torpedoes on the flanks, and given everything has really crappy dispersion on their torps, the likelihood of a bow-on hit is quite low.  The proximity to caps gave you massive warning that a DD was about to torp you. Notice that pretty much all the caps are... about 7km in diameter or VERY slightly less.  Notice that's the range of the Jervis' torpedoes - the sole DD with the torps best suited to take on a bow-tanking Sinop.  So a Sinop 0.5km outside a cap can pretty much completely dominate a cap, with very, very little counterplay.

The real major threat to that Sinop is an IFHE-enabled Helena, as it's got the shell arcs to get over islands without exposing itself to the Sinop deleting it. But even there, it take a LONG time to burn down/kill a ship that has best-in-tier HP.  When even that IFHE-enabled Helena is lucky to get 4k per salvo damage due to the narrow target profile.

 

Yep. Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

Nelson could also burn down the Sinop but was risky since if 1 or more Sinop decided to focused on your Nelson you ran the risk of getting citadel hit depending on the range and angle. And a bow tanking Nelson is typically pretty strong as long as the Nelson player is at least reasonably smart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,160 posts
60 battles

I ask you a questions. Do you have a strong beef on Russian ships that they don't deserve your respect, even though others would disagree with you? Were you expecting them to be weak, pathetic & useless from the first place? Are these a reason why you complain? Or an excuse to make half-baked judgement while you yet to try the Soviet/Russian battleships line yourself?

Let's not talk about Ranked battles alone. I've since worse performances in both Ranked & Random battles sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[STAFF]
Members
59 posts
3,219 battles
7 hours ago, Xero_Snake said:

I ask you a questions. Do you have a strong beef on Russian ships that they don't deserve your respect, even though others would disagree with you? Were you expecting them to be weak, pathetic & useless from the first place? Are these a reason why you complain? Or an excuse to make half-baked judgement while you yet to try the Soviet/Russian battleships line yourself?

Let's not talk about Ranked battles alone. I've since worse performances in both Ranked & Random battles sometimes.

To be fair their are strong/OP ships in every tree, not just the Russian one. I think it is more of an issue of powercreep: Sinop in particular basically outclasses every tech tree BB and most premium BB's. Comparing Sinop to Colorado in particular is just stupid-Sinop has more guns, faster speed, better armor, more HP. This is balanced out by somewhat poor dispersion and short range which IMO are not nearly enough to justify Sinop's other advantages.

Edited by Quantumphysics333

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,160 posts
60 battles
2 hours ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

To be fair their are strong/OP ships in every tree, not just the Russian one. I think it is more of an issue of powercreep: Sinop in particular basically outclasses every tech tree BB and most premium BB's. Comparing Sinop to Colorado in particular is just stupid-Sinop has more guns, faster speed, better armor, more HP. This is balanced out by somewhat poor dispersion and short range which IMO are not nearly enough to justify Sinop's other advantages.

Colorado is a tanky turtle that can tank torps better than most in the same tier, just saying...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
786 posts
3,885 battles
On 5/29/2020 at 12:18 PM, paulnola said:

I haven't seen one citadeled at any angle, not even full broadside at close range. Literally not one. None in my ranked matches anyway.

I triple citadeled one with a Friedrich der Grosse at a range of 9 kilometers.

"I haven't seen one citadeled at any angle", he says....

As for the fact that it's ranked, all it takes is one well-placed Gneisenau or Vauquelin and it's history

:SerB:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,160 posts
60 battles

I mean, really. You guys need should play & experience the battleships line yourself before making judgement. It doesn't matter if you hate them or not, but it's an appropriate way to understand your "enemies" in a different way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
312
[BIER]
Members
453 posts
6,526 battles
19 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Nelson could also burn down the Sinop but was risky since if 1 or more Sinop decided to focused on your Nelson you ran the risk of getting citadel hit depending on the range and angle. And a bow tanking Nelson is typically pretty strong as long as the Nelson player is at least reasonably smart.

Nelsons cannot bow tank any BB that has 380+mm guns. Which is a Sinop - it's 406mm can overmatch the measly 26mm of bow armor that the Nelson has, and the Nelson has both a MASSIVE bow - making it easy to hit and overmatch - and no "icebreaker" to bounce stuff on. It's 305mm athwartship bulkhead armor is pretty good, but it's completely vertical and a Sinop has no problems punching through it to citadel Nelsons from the front. Nelsons are surprisingly weak in a stationary bow-tanking mode, despite everyone using that mode as the default playstyle. In order to "bow tank" in a Nelson, you actually need to be sitting a good 15 to 20 degrees off-straight to the incoming fire, which even there is problematic, as a Nelson's citadel side is well above waterline and can get punched through by most BBs at 10km or so.

The Sinop will eat HE pens from the Nelson all the time, but that's not a good DPM tradeoff for the Nelson:  that's 3.5k or 12k damage per shell from the Sinop (shooting 6) vs 2.3k per shell (shooting 9) for the Nelson. 

16 hours ago, Xero_Snake said:

I ask you a questions. Do you have a strong beef on Russian ships that they don't deserve your respect, even though others would disagree with you? Were you expecting them to be weak, pathetic & useless from the first place? Are these a reason why you complain? Or an excuse to make half-baked judgement while you yet to try the Soviet/Russian battleships line yourself?

I have a problem with the Russian Company that writes this game giving SIGNIFICANT preference in terms of design to RUSSIAN ships, compared to others.  Virtually all RU ships in this game are completely fictional, never built, and only a bare majority of them even had naval architect plans drawn up.  Consequently, they've been assigned characteristics that are completely ludicrous and would never have happened, and given "weaknesses" that are functionally far less a concern than their strengths.

I would expect RU ships to get the same fair balance that is at least attempted with other nations. They don't get that - they get the Favored Son treatment, and it shows very obviously.

For instance, notice that the vast majority of RU ships have "ice breaker" bows.  This makes no sense, as the RU fleet was designed for the Baltic and Black Seas, where icebreaker bows are pointless. It would only have use for the small chunk of the fleet operating out of the Arctic ports.  Yet, in this game, that bow armor strip is a HUGE benefit, because you can avoid a large amount of overmatch when bow tanking.

Funny, how extremely few other ships have that feature. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[STAFF]
Members
59 posts
3,219 battles
12 hours ago, Xero_Snake said:

Colorado is a tanky turtle that can tank torps better than most in the same tier, just saying...

Colorado is tanky...lol. Colorado is hella squishy (and I grinded Colorado). Its speed really holds it back. Its covered in thin 25mm plating and is overmatched easily. it does have good torp protection, but I wouldn't say that redeems it. Also any percieved tankiness is irrelevent if your slow speed leads to you being overrun.

 

12 hours ago, Xero_Snake said:

I mean, really. You guys need should play & experience the battleships line yourself before making judgement. It doesn't matter if you hate them or not, but it's an appropriate way to understand your "enemies" in a different way.

I also played through Sinop. It may not be OP, but it definitely is top tier (and better than Colorado, hard to argue against that).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,160 posts
60 battles
8 hours ago, LAnybody said:

I have a problem with the Russian Company that writes this game giving SIGNIFICANT preference in terms of design to RUSSIAN ships, compared to others.  Virtually all RU ships in this game are completely fictional, never built, and only a bare majority of them even had naval architect plans drawn up.  Consequently, they've been assigned characteristics that are completely ludicrous and would never have happened, and given "weaknesses" that are functionally far less a concern than their strengths.

This same old rhetoric again? Seems like the likes of you never even try to understand a thing by looking at different perspective. In that case, then will you have issues with other countries' gaming companies favoring imbalance bias on their favorite faction to have many of the best stuffs & the rest of other factions are crappy with no direct counters?

Besides, you said "virtually all" Soviet/Russian ships are completely fictional & never had any drawn-up plans? Then here you clearly demonstrated your ignorance & not even cared to understand the VMF & their circumstances. This is you & the likes throwing hissy fits with your materialistic & narrow-minded standards of perspectives.

Actually, those ships DO have their own weaknesses. You just didn't see it.

Quote

I would expect RU ships to get the same fair balance that is at least attempted with other nations. They don't get that - they get the Favored Son treatment, and it shows very obviously.

The Soviet VMF is to be a direct counter against the German KMS, the USN & to a lesser extend - the Japanese IJN. You're letting your blinded prejudice clouding your judgement here.

Do you have issue for me to appropriately call the Soviet Navy the VMF as well? Stubbornly calling it the RU Navy/Fleet sounds like it has a small hint of insult.

Quote

 

For instance, notice that the vast majority of RU ships have "ice breaker" bows.  This makes no sense, as the RU fleet was designed for the Baltic and Black Seas, where icebreaker bows are pointless. It would only have use for the small chunk of the fleet operating out of the Arctic ports.  Yet, in this game, that bow armor strip is a HUGE benefit, because you can avoid a large amount of overmatch when bow tanking.

Funny, how extremely few other ships have that feature. 

 

In the Big Fleet Program, they did consider ships for both Northern Fleet & Pacific Fleet as well. An icebreaker bow could as well be a convenient design feat, just in case if ships supposedly from Baltic or Black Sea Fleet transfer to the Northern Fleet or Pacific Fleet without running into too much trouble cruising through thick ice.

And just in case if you hadn't noticed & still living under the rock, both Khabarovsk & Smolensk suffered a harsh nerf treatments because of YOU pricks. I even heard players at my place complained how Smolensk sucks so bad due to being over-nerfed to crap. It's hard to believe how WG just conceded & kneel before your kind of people who appears to be a power-tripping pricks & appease you lots in return.


2 hours ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

Colorado is tanky...lol. Colorado is hella squishy (and I grinded Colorado). Its speed really holds it back. Its covered in thin 25mm plating and is overmatched easily. it does have good torp protection, but I wouldn't say that redeems it. Also any percieved tankiness is irrelevent if your slow speed leads to you being overrun.

 

I also played through Sinop. It may not be OP, but it definitely is top tier (and better than Colorado, hard to argue against that).

That's a fair assessment, albeit a brief one

For me, both Gneisenau & Sinop are my top choices for Tier VII BBs. Although I yet to get & try Lyon myself, so many guns...

Edited by Xero_Snake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[STAFF]
Members
59 posts
3,219 battles
6 minutes ago, Xero_Snake said:

 

That's a fair assessment, albeit a brief one

For me, both Gneisenau & Sinop are my top choices for Tier VII BBs. Although I yet to get & try Lyon myself, so many guns...

Lyon is fun. Dispersion is kind of crap, but its so memey. Despite the mediocre HE shell, it's actually a pretty good fire starter just due to gun count. IMO FR BB line is one of best, espcially Alsace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
5,160 posts
60 battles
Just now, Quantumphysics333 said:

Lyon is fun. Dispersion is kind of crap, but its so memey. Despite the mediocre HE shell, it's actually a pretty good fire starter just due to gun count. IMO FR BB line is one of best, espcially Alsace.

Crappy dispersion might as well be a compensating quirk for having too many guns.

To be frank, I do find French BBs intriguing too, it can be kinda fun. Looking forward to get Richelieu & Alsace both, while I'm starting the line. I think I could try making good use of secondaries focus fire skill to see the effectiveness, starting from Lyon. Something I used it on my Sinop to make full potential of her secondaries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19
[STAFF]
Members
59 posts
3,219 battles
Just now, Xero_Snake said:

Crappy dispersion might as well be a compensating quirk for having too many guns.

To be frank, I do find French BBs intriguing too, it can be kinda fun. Looking forward to get Richelieu & Alsace both, while I'm starting the line. I think I could try making good use of secondaries focus fire skill to see the effectiveness, starting from Lyon. Something I used it on my Sinop to make full potential of her secondaries.

Definetely. While secondaries might not be optimal, they sure are fun. The secondaries start picking up at T8 (with Richi). Alsace gets better. It has a 12 gun broadside firing at 20 rpm, pretty nasty. They can't pen anything, but they are great fire starters. Republique's are pretty good too. Also speeeeeeeeeeeed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×