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CVs have ruined DDs

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Deleted an old account shortly after the CV rebuild about a year or so ago. Pandemic made me give this game another try. I am a DD player, and once a CV gets their eyes on you, they focus you non-stop, keeping you lit and rocketing you to smithereens. In the first minute or two of a game, you often find half of your HP gone from the first rocket attack, and your game is already near ruined. If they got rid of attack planes with rockets, that would be at least something.

I don't understand what the purpose of having the CV in this game is. They endlessly piss off and annoy all players, other than the one or two CVs in the game. There is also near nothing in terms of defence you have against it, other than pressing a single button and hoping focused AA fire does something. Which in a DD most often it does not. So you just accept that the CV will keep rocketing you and spotting you, and there's nothing you can do about it.

If I was a game developer, it would concern me that the vast majority of a player-base despise something about the game, namely: CVs. Oddly, it doesn't seem to concern Wargaming.

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As annoying as the CV/DD mechanic is... Wargaming doesn't really care.

Their spreadsheet says its fine.

It sucks.

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Power creep and disproportionate ships, these are the things the overall population wants.

It is what it is.

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They see financials on a regular basis. The CV’s have either increased the bottom line or at least not decreased it or they would be gone. No business keeps non profitable ventures going long. Post 8.0 rework has been out awhile. If it wasn’t making money or worse costing money we wouldn’t even be discussing it unless in a reference of what was in the game but no more.

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Everyone wants their favorite ship type to be "fair and balanced". /S

No they don't, they want easy mode and will say learn to play if you don't agree with them. 

Side Note: This is directed at all ship classes.

 

Cirran

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Ruined? Nah.

However, their presence does force a play style that I personally loathe, as do many others. I have to play in constant fear of being spotted either purposefully or even accidentally when a CV is in the game. For a class that almost universally relies on stealth, I already have enough concerns just trying to maintain that without the knowledge that the enemy CV is going to drop by and urinate all over my fun little shooty-boats game. I can deal with it, I know how to mitigate it (as best as anyone actually can anyway...), I just don't care for the changes I have to adopt. That's largely why I'm enjoying ranked at the moment, if we're being honest. 

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15 minutes ago, BeaNC1 said:

Deleted an old account shortly after the CV rebuild about a year or so ago. Pandemic made me give this game another try. I am a DD player, and once a CV gets their eyes on you, they focus you non-stop, keeping you lit and rocketing you to smithereens. In the first minute or two of a game, you often find half of your HP gone from the first rocket attack, and your game is already near ruined. If they got rid of attack planes with rockets, that would be at least something.

I don't understand what the purpose of having the CV in this game is. They endlessly piss off and annoy all players, other than the one or two CVs in the game. There is also near nothing in terms of defence you have against it, other than pressing a single button and hoping focused AA fire does something. Which in a DD most often it does not. So you just accept that the CV will keep rocketing you and spotting you, and there's nothing you can do about it.

If I was a game developer, it would concern me that the vast majority of a player-base despise something about the game, namely: CVs. Oddly, it doesn't seem to concern Wargaming.

A lot of DD's players recently have decided to leave their AA on and moving immediately into cap, making it extremely easy to find and attack.  They seem to refuse to be patient to see where the CV plans to scout first or use smoke.

The other problem is a lot of DD players don't know the difference in the aiming reticle some of the rockets planes use.  I've had DD's go nose in on my Tiny Tim rockets and getting upset due to the damage they took, Sorry not sorry... you helped me line the attack up perfectly.  Versus, I think its the Enterprise rocket planes where the reticle is turned 90 degree's so you want a broadside target to get maximum hits.

I play both and have no issues playing against a CV in a DD.

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9 minutes ago, HeadSplit120 said:

A lot of DD's players recently have decided to leave their AA on and moving immediately into cap, making it extremely easy to find and attack.  They seem to refuse to be patient to see where the CV plans to scout first or use smoke.

The other problem is a lot of DD players don't know the difference in the aiming reticle some of the rockets planes use.  I've had DD's go nose in on my Tiny Tim rockets and getting upset due to the damage they took, Sorry not sorry... you helped me line the attack up perfectly.  Versus, I think its the Enterprise rocket planes where the reticle is turned 90 degree's so you want a broadside target to get maximum hits.

I play both and have no issues playing against a CV in a DD.

All of this.

I hate the rework for my own reasons; but even in RTS days I always said; ‘(up to a certain point,) a carrier is only as good as the players they attack let them be.’

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32 minutes ago, enderland07 said:

As annoying as the CV/DD mechanic is... Wargaming doesn't really care.

They don't care because people keep playing them.

Which makes sense when you think about it; people like playing stuff that can't be defended against.

It's patently bad design and balance, but we all know the honchos at WG have their noses buried in their spreadsheets, looking at a few data metrics and conjouring up highly subjective feel-good-analyses from them.

I mean, everybody knows; 4% shorter overall battle time means more dynamic gameplay, and not at all more frequent curb-stomps that leave people frustrated and angry.

Everybody knows this.

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58 minutes ago, Capt_Ahab1776 said:

They see financials on a regular basis. The CV’s have either increased the bottom line or at least not decreased it or they would be gone. No business keeps non profitable ventures going long. Post 8.0 rework has been out awhile. If it wasn’t making money or worse costing money we wouldn’t even be discussing it unless in a reference of what was in the game but no more.

I dont believe they would get rid of CVs -- they are now committed to them. Obviously because of their many comments on how they will handle submarines in light of the idiotic ReBork they know they screwed up, and I expect that screw up extended to the financials as well. 

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I avoid the lower Tiers and this problem rarely occurs.  Yes if a good CV player wants to eliminate me they sacrifice at least three different squadrons if not more.  Lower Tiers are rather weird.  Tier 9 and 10 as a DD main I am fine.  I have a couple DD's that are pure AA set up so if I get pissed at a CV the next game my AA kills are huge.... I feel better :)

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played a tier 8 game today(so players that have been around a bit)and our 2 DDs clan mates and in a division head off to the B cap..... the other teams carrier is happily flying its aircraft to the right of B must have been a goof 5km away from the closest, both have their AA on, one is deleted pretty quickly "how can DD's operate with Carriers all over the place" comes the cry........... Try turning your AA off, the irony was I was supporting behind them in a cruiser and he was going after me before they got spotted!

Edited by Bluemoon51

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I would be fine with general DPS/Damage increases for CVs if they removed Attack planes (rocket/bomb/torp) from being able to SPOT while under AA fire.

 

CVs don't ruin DDs, they overly influence the the vison game.  This effects everyone who is trying to go dark to turn/reposition but a plane 10km away still has them spotted so they can't get out from under the HE "rain" to move.  The CVs are generally unaware of this as the average CV is like the average player and is just trying to reach the crazy emblem achievement of 140K average damage at T10 and attacking DDs in the first 8 mins of the game is generally the only thing to do.  Everyone is making AA bubbles behind islands so the CV has nothing else to do than attack DDs.  They finish the game with 200K spotting damage (and only 80K damage) and don't even get the effect they were having on the vision game.

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1 hour ago, BeaNC1 said:

Deleted an old account shortly after the CV rebuild about a year or so ago. Pandemic made me give this game another try. I am a DD player, and once a CV gets their eyes on you, they focus you non-stop, keeping you lit and rocketing you to smithereens. In the first minute or two of a game, you often find half of your HP gone from the first rocket attack, and your game is already near ruined. If they got rid of attack planes with rockets, that would be at least something.

I don't understand what the purpose of having the CV in this game is. They endlessly piss off and annoy all players, other than the one or two CVs in the game. There is also near nothing in terms of defence you have against it, other than pressing a single button and hoping focused AA fire does something. Which in a DD most often it does not. So you just accept that the CV will keep rocketing you and spotting you, and there's nothing you can do about it.

If I was a game developer, it would concern me that the vast majority of a player-base despise something about the game, namely: CVs. Oddly, it doesn't seem to concern Wargaming.

While I can sympathize with the premise here as I am not a CV fan, and I play this game for the fun of the NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE experience; I do detect a bit of “same tactics expecting different results” in these types of threads, which are quite frequent.

I only begun to enjoy playing DDs after the CV rework. Turning off AA, sailing with Cruisers, not isolating myself in a cap early (CV now knows you are there, might as well have RDF), or contesting a cap with islands between me and my fleet...these are all things I had to learn from my failures. Other players told me a lot of this, as I was absolutely abysmal in DDs for a long time until my tactics changed.

Getting perma-spotted and deleted by/because of a CV is at best 1 in 10 DD games for me now. I literally sink CVs at a better rate than that. Yes, I would love for WG to dump CVs altogether, or at least bring alternative game modes, but that won’t happen. So the next best thing is to adapt my strategies and find new ways to enjoy the game. Ninja killing CVs and drawing their airgroups into crossfires of AA are quite satisfying.

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4 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

I dont believe they would get rid of CVs -- they are now committed to them. Obviously because of their many comments on how they will handle submarines in light of the idiotic ReBork they know they screwed up, and I expect that screw up extended to the financials as well. 

Money dictates any business. I agree it didn’t go as smoothly as planned. WG admitted that. Anybody who had visited any official WG/Warships social media outlet seen it. They was on fire. 
That aside, my opinion if it’s costing more money than it generates it’s not for long. That’s anything. Bottom line dictates any business’s direction.

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On a side note, I’m very thankful the forum is here. I truly believe the outcry from the members averted the original form of implementation of NTC. When you see every single thread on the same subject and the members was pretty galvanized together on that one. The threads being melded together because they was all the same subject and concerns. It got on radar in the home office.

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4 minutes ago, SuperComm4 said:

While I can sympathize with the premise here as I am not a CV fan, and I play this game for the fun of the NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE experience; I do detect a bit of “same tactics expecting different results” in these types of threads, which are quite frequent.

I only begun to enjoy playing DDs after the CV rework. Turning off AA, sailing with Cruisers, not isolating myself in a cap early (CV now knows you are there, might as well have RDF), or contesting a cap with islands between me and my fleet...these are all things I had to learn from my failures. Other players told me a lot of this, as I was absolutely abysmal in DDs for a long time until my tactics changed.

Getting perma-spotted and deleted by/because of a CV is at best 1 in 10 DD games for me now. I literally sink CVs at a better rate than that. Yes, I would love for WG to dump CVs altogether, or at least bring alternative game modes, but that won’t happen. So the next best thing is to adapt my strategies and find new ways to enjoy the game. Ninja killing CVs and drawing their airgroups into crossfires of AA are quite satisfying.

THIS ^^^^

Except _ I am much less than 1 in 10 games having a CV problem.

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CVs are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. Sure you will have the games where you are very unlucky and get spotted out the gate and lose half of your HP, but that is rare unless your a bad DD player. 

 

If you play CVs some you will have a better understanding of them and know how to counter them. Most CVs are not willing to invest their time chasing you around not doing any damage. If you make it hard for them they will go away. 

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1 hour ago, BeaNC1 said:

Deleted an old account shortly after the CV rebuild about a year or so ago. Pandemic made me give this game another try. I am a DD player, and once a CV gets their eyes on you, they focus you non-stop, keeping you lit and rocketing you to smithereens. In the first minute or two of a game, you often find half of your HP gone from the first rocket attack, and your game is already near ruined. If they got rid of attack planes with rockets, that would be at least something.

I don't understand what the purpose of having the CV in this game is. They endlessly piss off and annoy all players, other than the one or two CVs in the game. There is also near nothing in terms of defence you have against it, other than pressing a single button and hoping focused AA fire does something. Which in a DD most often it does not. So you just accept that the CV will keep rocketing you and spotting you, and there's nothing you can do about it.

If I was a game developer, it would concern me that the vast majority of a player-base despise something about the game, namely: CVs. Oddly, it doesn't seem to concern Wargaming.

You mean, the same way DD staying invisible chasing after cruisers and BB relentlessly to torp spam them all game till they're sunk? or hiding in smoke spamming HE till other ships burn to the ground?   hmmm.....yea, you got what you deserved being spam by rockets when you go yolo instead of sticking close by the fleet and other cruisers.  Karma is a thing of a beauty and work wonder. 

I got no love for CV, but it is a counter to the DD mafia quite effectively, until their planes ran into Euro DD.....lol

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17 minutes ago, Slumlord_Dasboot said:

CVs are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. Sure you will have the games where you are very unlucky and get spotted out the gate and lose half of your HP, but that is rare unless your a bad DD player. 

 

If you play CVs some you will have a better understanding of them and know how to counter them. Most CVs are not willing to invest their time chasing you around not doing any damage. If you make it hard for them they will go away. 

This is accurate as well. When playing CV myself, we can quickly see their once god-like powers wilt away in dramatic fashion. With me as the Captain of a CV, their bombs are hand grenades, their torpedoes go ever slower, and their rockets appear to be fired from bottles.

There must be some skill involved in piloting these things, and I have not yet desired to learn that set of skills. 

Edited by SuperComm4

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i go after DDs often because thier presence is respected and feared by BBs and  crusiers who lack utility to hunt them. they are deadlist HE spamers and Dev striking  ships. even newer players learn quick about it and keep their distance. then they hide behind the CV so if the CV want to stay alive he has to remove the DDs so the team can push 

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40 minutes ago, SuperComm4 said:

While I can sympathize with the premise here as I am not a CV fan, and I play this game for the fun of the NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE experience; I do detect a bit of “same tactics expecting different results” in these types of threads, which are quite frequent.

The problem isn't "same tactics expecting different results". It's "when you adapt to crap.... it's still crap". 

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