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Terminator_1211

Potential CV nerf?

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I was thinking, what if the ability for carriers to maneuver planes during the attack run was removed (sort of like the RTS style) and forced the CV player to actually aim and predict the course of the target ship? Everyone else with main battery shells and torpedoes have to compensate for enemy player movement, and these have travel times that allow players to evade and minimize damage. Meanwhile, carrier planes can pull crazy turns even while the aiming circle is decreasing and smash maneuvering ships (regardless of class) with a full salvo every time. (hyperbole, but you catch my drift)

For example, it's nearly impossible for a DD to avoid rocket planes from a good CV player from any direction except from directly in front, even while erratically evading.

Or how a cruiser in the sights of a Hakuryu eats citadels no matter what they do or battleships being virtually helpless against torpedo bombers.

On a separate note, the fact that CVs are a jack of all trades end-all counter to all ships is unreasonable and judging by the issues they bring to normal gameplay (making DD spotting irrelevant, punishing nose in ships, perma spotting DDs, unavoidable cruiser citadels, practically invulnerable planes, guaranteed damage, etc. etc. etc.) they shouldn't have been added to the game in the first place. (this is my personal opinion, don't crucify me pls)

But that's besides the point, I'd think that this change would actually make plane munitions easier to JustDodgeTM while making CV play more skill based instead of the practically impossible to avoid 10k blaps we see in game. Of course the accuracy of plane drops would be increased and the time of attack runs would be decreased to compensate, but I think that this would make CVs a little more tolerable to play against. 

Thoughts?

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I recommend you actually play the ships you say can do these things then come back and we will reevaluate what you just posted. 

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An RTS style attack mode.

It's already done manually. I miss RTS to be honest.

But you know what RTS could never make players do while it was in place?

Sailing together. Back in those days, players sailed their ships like they had the largest ( insert expletive) and would swing it around. But that arrogance got them sunk. And then, and then they cried on Reddit. Because Reddit has WG by the short hairs.

So rework came. Players do manual. And what happened next was an unprecedented number of players sailing together because iChase went flying shimakaze and forced yammies to hug woosters saying: "Hold me!"

It was all fun and games, until AA got taken out back and shot, subsequently buried in an unmarked grave.

Manual drops is not easy. But it is more player friendly because you only focus on one player at a time.

So instead of being a mass murderer with RTS, you are just a cold blooded one.

RTS required tracking all targets and moving assets to a couple at a time.

You basically played it like a traffic controller only it was sinister, methodical, and devastating to a team. A nightmare to behold. Only a certain kind of player could do it, I can't.

But that certain kind of player is a (insert expletive) genius.

Disclaimer: iChase is not a genius, but you have to admit, watching grown men collide their ships while iChase dropped his shimakaze spread is frickin hilarious. Loss of control of your ship by some player above is god-like in execution, but definitely mischievous to say the least.

CVs offer chaos on the field of battle. And break the camping meta is what every CV captain loves to do.

I play all ships. So I know all perspectives. But I know common sense. Don't sail alone, use cover to flank a target, attack when you have opportunity and break off when you can attack at a later time.

 

 

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman
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15 minutes ago, HallaSnackbar said:

I recommend you actually play the ships you say can do these things then come back and we will reevaluate what you just posted. 

some slight exaggeration to make a point. Comment on the proposed change instead of a poor ad hominem. 

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1 minute ago, Terminator_1211 said:

some slight exaggeration to make a point. Comment on the proposed change instead of a poor ad hominem. 

It is not ad hominem,  I am pointing out that CV's cannot do what you say they can do.  British CV are the only ones that are able to adjust aim while in the bombing run.  The others suffer massive accuracy penalties making the drop a complete waste.  As stated above,  if you tried playing these ships you would know this and we could have an intelligent and productive conversation about it.  Without that you are literally trying to offer suggestions on how to change something when you don't even understand how it currently is.

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1 hour ago, HallaSnackbar said:

I recommend you actually play the ships you say can do these things then come back and we will reevaluate what you just posted. 

This, play them and then come back.

57 minutes ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

An RTS style attack mode.

It's already done manually. I miss RTS to be honest.

But you know what RTS could never make players do while it was in place?

Sailing together. Back in those days, players sailed their ships like they had the largest ( insert expletive) and would swing it around. But that arrogance got them sunk. And then, and then they cried on Reddit. Because Reddit has WG by the short hairs.

So rework came. Players do manual. And what happened next was an unprecedented number of players sailing together because iChase went flying shimakaze and forced yammies to hug woosters saying: "Hold me!"

It was all fun and games, until AA got taken out back and shot, subsequently buried in an unmarked grave.

Manual drops is not easy. But it is more player friendly because you only focus on one player at a time.

So instead of being a mass murderer with RTS, you are just a cold blooded one.

RTS required tracking all targets and moving assets to a couple at a time.

You basically played it like a traffic controller only it was sinister, methodical, and devastating to a team. A nightmare to behold. Only a certain kind of player could do it, I can't.

But that certain kind of player is a (insert expletive) genius.

Disclaimer: iChase is not a genius, but you have to admit, watching grown men collide their ships while iChase dropped his shimakaze spread is frickin hilarious. Loss of control of your ship by some player above is god-like in execution, but definitely mischievous to say the least.

CVs offer chaos on the field of battle. And break the camping meta is what every CV captain loves to do.

I play all ships. So I know all perspectives. But I know common sense. Don't sail alone, use cover to flank a target, attack when you have opportunity and break off when you can attack at a later time.

 

 

In the RTS days it was less of an issue for low/no AA ships to make the CV's attacks wiff where now you make the first pass wiff but there are two or three more coming and sooner or later the CV will get a favorable attack angle.

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2 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

But you know what RTS could never make players do while it was in place?

Sailing together. Back in those days, players sailed their ships like they had the largest ( insert expletive) and would swing it around. But that arrogance got them sunk. And then, and then they cried on Reddit. Because Reddit has WG by the short hairs.

I remember that.  I was involved in a lot of the threads in those days regarding CVs & AA on these boards.  We had AA monsters like Atlanta, Cleveland, Jean Bart, Des Memes.  AA Mega Monsters Seattle, Worcester, Neptune, Minotaur reaching out to a whopping 8.6km.  But there were still lots of guys that sailed solo and ended up making themselves a prime target for a Kaga, Taiho, or Hakuryu 2-3 TB cross drop.  Or the mass of Midway bombers.

 

I remember making the suggestion many times to sail with teammates in an area, to make yourself less enticing as a target.  But the usual forum reply was shock and surprise to that idea.  How dare I tell them to do something differently!

You can help people out, tell them how and why that course of action may help, but if they don't listen... Oh well.

 

I used to do lots of AA capable ships with AA Builds.  I had an obsession with AA capability because of how CVs were in Open Beta and Launch.  Dealing with Triple Hiryu TB squads with a Tier V New York wasn't a fun time, and stuff like that made me appreciate great AA and defending teammates from air attacks.  But even with an AA Beast like Des Moines, Atlanta, etc, you can only be in 1 place at any given time, and I went where I could defend the most ships or the ones doing the most critical tasks (DDs near caps).  But if that Tirpitz insists in being somewhere off by itself, I can't help that.

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Wow this CV thing is god teir.  I have a 100 percent win rate in CV.  One shotting every ship, hitting every rocket and bomb I never miss.

Its impossable to ever dodge.  He'll I have had DD sink each other because a cv was in the game.

I have never dodged a rocket or bomb in my crusier.  

Yep its over everyone uninstall.

You clearly have never played a CV.  Thats right your perfic at them and never miss.

Its post like this that prove CDS (carrier dergrangment sub) is alive and well.

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On 5/21/2020 at 2:46 PM, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I remember making the suggestion many times to sail with teammates in an area, to make yourself less enticing as a target.  But the usual forum reply was shock and surprise to that idea.  How dare I tell them to do something differently!

You can help people out, tell them how and why that course of action may help, but if they don't listen... Oh well.

A frequent observation I've made is that it *only* took a CV rework and having a lot more people play them for people to finally start understand this simple idea of sailing in groups instead of venturing out alone and doing your own thing. And this sometimes can be a deciding factor in a lot of matches that turn into one-sided stomps, not just for AA reasons.

Unfortunately, it seems that more cruisers with smoke and premiums with fearsome AA is starting to cause people to relapse to old habits again.

EDIT: Although grouping up would leave the group susceptible to devastating DD torp waves, so I guess it really depends on the situation

Edited by yaluen

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