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Popeye444

Help Me Understand?

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Retired Navy and served on 10 different ships: 8 as crew & 2 as staff. Of these a FF, FFG, DDG, & 2 DD's.

Over 26 years spent a lot of time as a lookout while enlisted & as an OOD underway so know a little about

observing ships at sea.

I know this is a game, but in most cases they try and make things realistic. However, I need help in understanding

two issues I have:

1. How can a DD fire like 15 or so torps at one time, & to be realistic and historical, why would they?

2. I get sunk by torps fired from a ship I can't see. This one drives me nuts. Why? Well it appears the max range

on torps in this game is 10K yards, or 5 miles. So the ships are only 5 miles from the target. Now the formula for

the horizon is 1.17 X the square root of the height of eye. So if your on a ship and only 49 feet above the surface

of the water (7 x 1.17 = 8.19 miles) and you can't see a huge DD at five miles?

Please no smart [edited]answers, I'm just trying to understand. And if it's part of the game so be it. BTW I do enjoy

playing.

 

 

 

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The "historical" part of the game's marketing is a blatant lie unfortunately.  Much of the historical aspects have been removed for sake of gameplay.

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If I remember right their excuse was the destroyer represents a squadron of 6 ships

 Tell you the truth I'd be OK with my DD respawning 6 times with single loads

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6 minutes ago, Popeye444 said:

Retired Navy and served on 10 different ships: 8 as crew & 2 as staff. Of these a FF, FFG, DDG, & 2 DD's.

Over 26 years spent a lot of time as a lookout while enlisted & as an OOD underway so know a little about

observing ships at sea.

I know this is a game, but in most cases they try and make things realistic. However, I need help in understanding

two issues I have:

1. How can a DD fire like 15 or so torps at one time, & to be realistic and historical, why would they?

2. I get sunk by torps fired from a ship I can't see. This one drives me nuts. Why? Well it appears the max range

on torps in this game is 10K yards, or 5 miles. So the ships are only 5 miles from the target. Now the formula for

the horizon is 1.17 X the square root of the height of eye. So if your on a ship and only 49 feet above the surface

of the water (7 x 1.17 = 8.19 miles) and you can't see a huge DD at five miles?

Please no smart [edited]answers, I'm just trying to understand. And if it's part of the game so be it. BTW I do enjoy

playing.

 

 

 

    It is all game mechanics. The ships and types of ships may give a nod to real life in the names they use and what their armament is listed as but after that its a matter of trying to fit it all into different 'roles' and translate it all to what damage hits with different ammunitions should be worth and how much damage a ship of a size and tier can take.

 Destroyers are far more stealthy than other ship types, Light cruisers generally speaking are the next stealthy … but somehow you run into the paradox of battleships having better concealment than some of the heavy cruisers. Its all just how they went about trying to balance the game … much like other MMORPG type games. 

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18 minutes ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

The "historical" part of the game's marketing is a blatant lie unfortunately.  Much of the historical aspects have been removed for sake of gameplay.

Let's not forget the time one of their ads mentioned that they had the famous and historical HMS Monarch. No, not the actual Orion Class Monarch, the T8 Monarch that they basically made up (It's supposed to be based on an early KGV design, but there's a decent amount of artistic license taken there)

 

Point being, aside from some of the real ship models that show up in game, I wouldn't really consider much of WOWS to have historical connections.

Edited by TheOmegaDuck
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This is an Arcade Game not a Simulation. anything that resembles realism is not intended...:cap_horn:

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The display of scales of ships, speed and distance traveled aren't accurate either.  IIRC a long, long time ago WG commented when they developed the game they tried some real world things like accuracy and found that WW1 and WW2 ships may get into battle and had to fire a LOT of shots to get hits.  

So it became more of a historical based arcade-ish game. 

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dd's couldn't hit anything with 2-4 torps...  so they upped the spread...

wonder what will happen if subs have the same issues with hit %... maybe we will see subs with 16 torp spreads

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Well it's an arcade game, so balance plays a part on modifying certain mechanics.

If WG went full on accurate, Gunnery and other aspects would not be fun. All those things are actually very complicated in real. Yet simplified for the sake of fun game play.

It's fun to play. But historical accuracy is not on it much..

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"just dodge" i think is the term the dd crowd uses...

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17 minutes ago, SKurj said:

wonder what will happen if subs have the same issues with hit %... maybe we will see subs with 16 torp spreads

Subs do have homing torps which is a little different and in some situations they can get much closer while maintaining stealth prior to launching which ups the hit percentage. The other difference with large spreads is they can be used for area denial where you dont aim for a hit just to restrict movement in an area which further decreases the hit percentage.

Edited by RipNuN2

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5 minutes ago, SKurj said:

"just dodge" i think is the term the dd crowd uses...

 No that was pretty much coined by the CV rework as your only counterplay

 You're thinking WASD maybe 

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WG/WoWs is like a politician, they tell u what u want to hear to further their cause...truth is not required or prefered.

they lie, because they can...& get paid to do it.

there's a laundry list of things wrong with the game & nothing is getting done...

and surprise, surprise people r still paying.

 

 

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It's all in game mechanics. While realistically a DD shouldn't be able to get within 8 Km of a BB without being seen and lit up with every secondary gun on the thing, it makes for a really bad time gameplay wise. It's the same reason even BB AP shells that arm on a DD don't just crack it in half, and gunnery hits below the waterline don't cause flooding. Way back in early alpha they had a flotation mechanic but that wound up getting scrapped, probably for good reason.

It's the same reason the listed shell velocity is meaningless, actual travel time is about half of what it should be. It's also the same reason armor schemes are not realistic, as fun as it would be to sail around in a Yamato with the actual historic armor scheme it would certainly make life miserable for anything not armed with torps or massive guns.

Radar/hydro seeing through islands, wonky dispersion on ships with historically very good gun directors, ships coated bow to stern in oil soaked rags and cans of gasoline, UK BBs 3d printing a fresh boat in the middle of combat...it's all arcade mechanics.

If you're looking for any semblance of historical accuracy this isn't it. If that's what you're looking for you might check out a ship game about dreadnoughts, something about an admiral that is the ultimate perhaps.

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1 hour ago, Popeye444 said:

Retired Navy and served on 10 different ships: 8 as crew & 2 as staff. Of these a FF, FFG, DDG, & 2 DD's.

Over 26 years spent a lot of time as a lookout while enlisted & as an OOD underway so know a little about

observing ships at sea.

I know this is a game, but in most cases they try and make things realistic. However, I need help in understanding

two issues I have:

1. How can a DD fire like 15 or so torps at one time, & to be realistic and historical, why would they?

2. I get sunk by torps fired from a ship I can't see. This one drives me nuts. Why? Well it appears the max range

on torps in this game is 10K yards, or 5 miles. So the ships are only 5 miles from the target. Now the formula for

the horizon is 1.17 X the square root of the height of eye. So if your on a ship and only 49 feet above the surface

of the water (7 x 1.17 = 8.19 miles) and you can't see a huge DD at five miles?

Please no smart [edited]answers, I'm just trying to understand. And if it's part of the game so be it. BTW I do enjoy

playing.

 

 

 

Game mechanics:
Destroyers are the most fragile surface ship in the game, so they need good stealth to be able to spot for allies and survive without being yeeted out of existence in the first 5 minutes.

Secondly, Torpedoes in this game are heavily nerfed versions of their RL counterparts. Here you don't lose half your ship from a single torpedo, and you can heal back the damage and repair the flooding if any caused with the push of the button. The IJN are known for throwing massive torp volleys at American ships, a good example is in WWII at the end of Guadalcanal. The IJN's retreat was covered by a wall of 112 Long Lance torpedoes, largely in-effective since they only hit two ships with one torpedo each.

So it's just a game mechanic. You'll understand it more if you play DDs especially at higher tiers. (there the max range of torps is in excess of 10km.)

~Hunter

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Pretty much only thing realistic about this game is the pictures of ships.

But OP at 12k battles and questioning game mechanics is interesting.

Edited by SilverPhatShips

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I know your pain, brother. Every time I feel my intelligence insulted by one or another in-game mechanic, I just let it go. Enjoy the 3-D models of the ships and don’t take anything more seriously than you would a quick bout of Chutes ‘n Ladders with a gang of unruly grandchildren. My win rate is really bad in that game - I’m sure they cheat.

Edited by kagero__
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9 minutes ago, SilverPhatShips said:

Pretty much only thing realistic about this game is the pictures of ships.

Agreed.

4aoMCW3.png

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This is a ship themed action game, get realistic out of your head. Single DDs wouldn't survive very long, no ships would really, in the environment that the game has. Damage is king, and torps are most DDs main weapons for causing damage, a15 torp spread is for area denial and to hit anything they can. Just the nature of the beast.

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There is NOTHING realistic about this game.

I was out yesterday fishing messing with my Sonar wishing I had WOW sonar. It would show me which type of fish they were, what color they were biting on and and even lure selection. I have used sonar in one shape or form for over 20 years from Commercial to Private citizen types and NONE of them see through islands. I can see out a long way with some commercial brands and with Private I can see out 400ft and even at that it is still limited to the cone angle of the scanning unit. I make a lot of money each year teaching people how to use Sonar and setting them up. Boy I wish we had WOW Sonar err I mean hydro.

Radar is even more unrealistic on the game as well, mine sure the hell can't see through mountains let alone multiple mountains nor in the Time of these Ships could it reveal an enemy well enough in a storm to make the storm disappear to shoot it. Then again storms would ground planes and you would not have unlimited ammo AND barrels would melt with the ROF some of these ships send out.

Best and most honest answer is IT IS A GAME and that is it.

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1 hour ago, Popeye444 said:

Retired Navy and served on 10 different ships: 8 as crew & 2 as staff. Of these a FF, FFG, DDG, & 2 DD's.

Over 26 years spent a lot of time as a lookout while enlisted & as an OOD underway so know a little about

observing ships at sea.

I know this is a game, but in most cases they try and make things realistic. However, I need help in understanding

two issues I have:

1. How can a DD fire like 15 or so torps at one time, & to be realistic and historical, why would they?

2. I get sunk by torps fired from a ship I can't see. This one drives me nuts. Why? Well it appears the max range

on torps in this game is 10K yards, or 5 miles. So the ships are only 5 miles from the target. Now the formula for

the horizon is 1.17 X the square root of the height of eye. So if your on a ship and only 49 feet above the surface

of the water (7 x 1.17 = 8.19 miles) and you can't see a huge DD at five miles?

Please no smart [edited]answers, I'm just trying to understand. And if it's part of the game so be it. BTW I do enjoy

playing.

 

 

 

      Greetings, shipmate. Retired LDO engineering officer here.

      The first thing us old sea dogs need to overcome in this game is the fantasy-arcade aspect. You just have to ignore it and blast away. It is not in any way, shape, or form a simulator.

     When I want a sim, I still play Jane's Fleet Command on Steam. The NTDS plot interface is cool as hell, and it is in fact a decent simulator. They used it at PG School in Monterey back in the day.

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It's a game.

If it wasn't a game, battleships would dominate every game that didn't have CVs in them and CVs would dominate every game.

Pretty much every aspect of this game is not realistic. 

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1 hour ago, Popeye444 said:

Retired Navy and served on 10 different ships: 8 as crew & 2 as staff. Of these a FF, FFG, DDG, & 2 DD's.

Over 26 years spent a lot of time as a lookout while enlisted & as an OOD underway so know a little about

observing ships at sea.

I know this is a game, but in most cases they try and make things realistic. However, I need help in understanding

two issues I have:

1. How can a DD fire like 15 or so torps at one time, & to be realistic and historical, why would they?

2. I get sunk by torps fired from a ship I can't see. This one drives me nuts. Why? Well it appears the max range

on torps in this game is 10K yards, or 5 miles. So the ships are only 5 miles from the target. Now the formula for

the horizon is 1.17 X the square root of the height of eye. So if your on a ship and only 49 feet above the surface

of the water (7 x 1.17 = 8.19 miles) and you can't see a huge DD at five miles?

Please no smart [edited]answers, I'm just trying to understand. And if it's part of the game so be it. BTW I do enjoy

playing.

Ok.  I am a retired Armor Officer.  I have actually been in a working Panther, served in everything from the M48A5 to the 120 versions of the M1 and have shot hundreds of main gun (105/120) main gun rounds.....   Guess why I can't play WoTs???

These games started as a little more serious historically based combat arcade shooters and when LoL and other games got into micro-transaction and the industry saw the earning potentials, a lot of games stated to evolve towards simple arcade shooting formats..........because that is where the real money is.....   It's not in where they started.  Look my Father-in-Law served in WW2 as a FTG on the Mo.  Other relatives as FTG's on subs and bigger skimmers.....  Radar isn't even close to WW2.  Gun fire with the HE Spam is no where near close.  Yes, the Type 93 IJN was an OTH weapons system with HUGE ranges and very good speeds.......and, killed ships OTH that the US though the IJN had new mine capabilities.  Only after the war did we confirm that those ships destroyed or damaged were from LL torps.... 

It's a simple FFA, cooperative shooter now... 

Throw reality out with the bath water; AND, if @Hapa_Fodder is listening, an event where DD's can only carry one reload of Torps and all nations can fire single torps; where HE Spam has a high temperature shut-off at five volleys that forces a cool-down; where Radar is one ship = one radar is the standard and it isn't 100% accurate to that ship; where planes have to face pre-1944 or post 1944 AA (proximity and AA radar post 1944); where carriers have only TO&E numbers; and, repair and flooding mechanics "get tweaked back to reality" for the event only.........................that might be a fun "realism mode" for Ranked......  As an experiment for fun !!!!

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