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Sims earns extra base XP. Other ships with special perks?!

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Hi,

I was perplexed, not to say taken aback, to learn in the latest Flamu Ranked video that Sims actually earns more base XP for the same amount of contributions in battle, compared to other ships. That's right, you can buy more base XP.

If Sims were really competitive, that would actually mean being able to buy an easy way to saving your star in Ranked. As it is, I don't think she performs very highly and she would not be my top pick to say the least. But are there any other ships with similar [edited] going on? Everybody knows about Missouri's extra cash earning factor and that's OK. But...

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Anshan has a built-in Free XP modifier, and Missouri has a built-in credit modifier.

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Sims performs just fine -- she's a good bote.  The XP bonus is nice :)

Everybody knows this though.... and no WG doesn't like to tell us all of the variables because surprise mechanics

Edited by CV_Jeebies

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37 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

Anshan has a built-in Free XP modifier, and Missouri has a built-in credit modifier.

I thought Anshan’s increased free XP generation was through an additional bonus to her camo, not a magic improved hidden base stat, like Sims?

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Just now, UltimateNewbie said:

I thought Anshan’s increased free XP generation was through an additional bonus to her camo, not a magic improved hidden base stat, like Sims?

 

It is. Same for the Tirpitz if you have the Tarnanstrich camo.

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Yes, some premiums have baked in bonuses that are not stated. It's all about how to look at the breakdown post battle report.

There you see the math as it were..

 

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2 hours ago, FixCVs said:

Hi,

I was perplexed, not to say taken aback, to learn in the latest Flamu Ranked video that Sims actually earns more base XP for the same amount of contributions in battle, compared to other ships. That's right, you can buy more base XP.

If Sims were really competitive, that would actually mean being able to buy an easy way to saving your star in Ranked. As it is, I don't think she performs very highly and she would not be my top pick to say the least. But are there any other ships with similar [edited] going on? Everybody knows about Missouri's extra cash earning factor and that's OK. But...

It was abused years ago for it's XP saving star ability. SO many new ships lines now that for you to save a star now you will earn it. 

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Many ships including tech trees have different modifiers to balance their economy. 

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On 5/21/2020 at 1:20 PM, CV_Jeebies said:

Sims performs just fine --

Sims is utter garbage. Completely unstealthy, a fifth less gun power than Mahan and you can choose between slow-[edited]torps and slow-[edited]torps with too little range.

She has the both the worst win rate and the least damage. But due to this extra base XP bonus, she is EIGHTH in terms of average XP.

From dead last in performance to EIGHTH in base XP.

I wouldn't even mind if it were a special perma camo that gave her more ship XP or more commander XP. That's a regular commercial and acceptable premium ship perk. But more base XP, that is just open corruption.

By way of example, have a look at some data from my first Ranked loss this morning. Very poor, I was having my first coffee while playing. Saved muh star nonetheless though. All you need to do is survive, basically. (And in that particular game, I didn't even do that.)

If this were not a DD, which have a harder time than any other type to save their star, I'd say this needs to stop or it needed to be banned from Tier VII competitive play.

 

shot-20.05.21_16.27.17-0823.jpg

shot-20.05.21_16.27.11-0549.jpg

Edited by FixCVs
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2 hours ago, SteelRain_Rifleman said:

It's all about how to look at the breakdown post battle report.

There you see the math as it were..

 

No you don't. You get vague hints but the formulas are secret.

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5 minutes ago, FixCVs said:

I'd say this needs to stop or it needed to be banned from Tier VII competitive play.

I'd say Radar's and Special upgrades should be banned too, following your path of trajectory. Hell, ban the 'competitive play'.  It really isn't competitive if you think about it.  

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17 minutes ago, FixCVs said:

Sims is utter garbage. Completely unstealthy, a fifth less gun power than Mahan and you can choose between slow-[edited]torps and slow-[edited]torps with too little range.

She has the both the worst win rate and the least damage. But due to this extra base XP bonus, she is EIGTH in terms of average XP.

From dead last in performance to EIGHTH in base XP.

I wouldn't even mind if it were a special perma camo that gave her more ship XP or more commander XP. That's a regular commercial and acceptable premium ship perk. But more base XP, that is just open corruption.

By way of example, have a look at some data from my first Ranked loss this morning. Very poor, I was having my first coffee while playing. Saved muh star nonetheless though. All you need to do is survive, basically. (And in that particular game, I didn't even do that.)

If this were not a DD, which have a harder time than any other type to save their star, I'd say this needs to stop or it needed to be banned from Tier VII competitive play.

 

shot-20.05.21_16.27.17-0823.jpg

shot-20.05.21_16.27.11-0549.jpg

You choose to see the glass half empty, I see it half full with Sims. 

One of the best speeds at tier VII, able to hit 40kts with just the flag. 

Incredibly agile, meaning you can pull off ridiculous maneuvers and torpedobeats.

AA that can be at least a nuisance versus tier VI CVs.

While the torpedoes have too low a damage and are slow, you can spam them and get some unexpected hits exactly because they are that slow. 

Ship has most of the characteristics of USN DDs like main battery ballistics, agility, turret traverse. She is the perfect trainer, is quite fun and comes at a relatively low cost.

 

 

Edited by warheart1992
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2 hours ago, LowSpeed_US said:

I'd say Radar's and Special upgrades should be banned too, following your path of trajectory.

Not really.

But I was just reminded that in fact every ship has a different base XP modifier. Which WG keeps secret.

Basically that opens a whole other kettle of balans worms, or maybe it's the same old kettle, seeing as base XP is the decider for what is supposed to be at least approximating a competitive mode. This playing field is purposely kept the opposite of level, it would seem, and you can only guestimate which way it tilts for you.

Which seems a good opportunity to circle back to that CC summit Q&A in St Petersburg last year.

Video is cued to one of the more interesting bits, although 1:17:04 is where the whole complex is first brought up by Uocat.

I mean to think just how hard it is to prevail when your DDs play poorly, it is really galling enough how damage-centered the whole metric is, even without a p2w issue added on top.

popup.jpg

Edited by FixCVs

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7 hours ago, FixCVs said:

Sims is utter garbage. Completely unstealthy, a fifth less gun power than Mahan and you can choose between slow-[edited]torps and slow-[edited]torps with too little range.

She has the both the worst win rate and the least damage. But due to this extra base XP bonus, she is EIGTH in terms of average XP.

From dead last in performance to EIGHTH in base XP.

I wouldn't even mind if it were a special perma camo that gave her more ship XP or more commander XP. That's a regular commercial and acceptable premium ship perk. But more base XP, that is just open corruption.

By way of example, have a look at some data from my first Ranked loss this morning. Very poor, I was having my first coffee while playing. Saved muh star nonetheless though. All you need to do is survive, basically. (And in that particular game, I didn't even do that.)

If this were not a DD, which have a harder time than any other type to save their star, I'd say this needs to stop or it needed to be banned from Tier VII competitive play.

 

shot-20.05.21_16.27.17-0823.jpg

shot-20.05.21_16.27.11-0549.jpg

Sims isn't garbage -- good bote damn it!

Those 10k sea mines are pretty useful against those camping BBs and her maneuverability allows her to OWGB BBs.  Her speed and maneuverability is unmatched at the tier.  Even running the faster torps she can pull ridiculous yolos outrunning turret traverse while the torps are enough to kill anything at the tier.  Concealment is better than mahans, boost upgrade slot 2 is handy, but 1 less turret does suck.   Mahan and sims require 2 completely different play styles though they do overlap.  Nothing can match the haida if your team is willing to support your spotting ability in that ship.  Sims most likely to save a star is nice though.  Given quaranteams that affect all modes of the game it may be more wise to bring a ship that can easily play save a star....

When teams suck, sims is my go to co-op bote to knock out dailies when one of the grindfests are active.

Edited by CV_Jeebies

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1 hour ago, CV_Jeebies said:

Sims isn't garbage -- good bote damn it!
 

I repeat:

Worst win rate of all Tier VII DDs. (Sims B strangely in third-but-last, must be because that's the one I use...)

Least average DAMAGE of all Tier VII DDs.

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/4264441840,Sims/
 

Quote

Those 10k sea mines are pretty useful against those camping BBs

Akatsuki has more of them, faster, more spreads, faster reload and plus the ship has better concealment. I don't see why they should be any less useful and in my experience they aren't. The one extra spread makes it much more likely to score a hit.
 

Quote

pull ridiculous yolos outrunning turret traverse while the torps are enough to kill anything at the tier. 

What DD can't?! I'd even prefer Leningrad or even Minsk in a pinch, same concealment, much faster and the guns are so much better it is not even funny.

Quote

Concealment is better than mahans,

By 1 km.

And what kind of a reference is Mahan supposed to be re: concealment?

Five ships on tier outspot Sims by half a kilometer or more. And of the two that are only a few hundred meters better, one of them is JERVIS which is so much better it should by rights not even be allowed on the same tier. Seriously. That ship eats BENSONs for breakfast.

Quote

Nothing can match the haida if your team is willing to support your spotting ability in that ship.

Dude, Shiratsuyu is only 100 m less stealthy AND has better torps and more guns that shoot flatter. Sims is comically bad in comparison.

 

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I suspect Atlanta to have an XP modifier. I'm not sure but I feel like sometime I earn more base XP than I should

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2 hours ago, AlcatrazNC said:

I suspect Atlanta to have an XP modifier. I'm not sure but I feel like sometime I earn more base XP than I should

I think this one is known, too, as Atlanta is a mainstay for Narai.

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2 hours ago, RainbowFartingUnicorn said:

I think this one is known, too, as Atlanta is a mainstay for Narai.

Thats the reality of it.

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19 hours ago, FixCVs said:

If Sims were really competitive

After the torpedo buff, Sims is a godbote.

5 hours ago, FixCVs said:

Worst win rate of all Tier VII DDs

Yeah, and most of these losses are from pre-buff days.

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4 hours ago, FixCVs said:

I repeat:

Worst win rate of all Tier VII DDs. (Sims B strangely in third-but-last, must be because that's the one I use...)

Least average DAMAGE of all Tier VII DDs.

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/4264441840,Sims/
 

Akatsuki has more of them, faster, more spreads, faster reload and plus the ship has better concealment. I don't see why they should be any less useful and in my experience they aren't. The one extra spread makes it much more likely to score a hit.
 

What DD can't?! I'd even prefer Leningrad or even Minsk in a pinch, same concealment, much faster and the guns are so much better it is not even funny.

By 1 km.

And what kind of a reference is Mahan supposed to be re: concealment?

Five ships on tier outspot Sims by half a kilometer or more. And of the two that are only a few hundred meters better, one of them is JERVIS which is so much better it should by rights not even be allowed on the same tier. Seriously. That ship eats BENSONs for breakfast.

Dude, Shiratsuyu is only 100 m less stealthy AND has better torps and more guns that shoot flatter. Sims is comically bad in comparison.

 

 I was gonna just read and shake my head till you compared Shira to Sims in guns... maybe next time think before hitting reply.

 Sims guns have a 3.34 sec reload, a 12.88km range, and do a 180 turn in 5.29 seconds. Those are base numbers. In comparision Shira's numbers, with EM, BFT, and AFT, are 6.75 sec, 13.2km, and 21.18 sec. Akat isn't much better in traverse, identical in reload, and worse in range, than Shira. What that means is Sims can hit further (with AFT 15.46km!), put more rounds downrange, and keep her guns on target. Hell she can switch sides and get her guns back on target nearly as fast as Shira can do a single reload. Nobody in tier beats Sims gun traverse.. nobody even comes close! Skane, sitting alone at #2 is only capable of 10 sec base. Nobody can match her range. Only Skane can beat her reload by .14 sec, Mahan can only tie it.

 Lets see how you described Sims torps... "you can choose between slow-[edited]torps and slow-[edited]torps with too little range."  I'm not a fan of 7km torps at T7 or the low damage but last I checked 65kts is FASTER than either Shira or Akat's best of 62kts with a lower detection to boot. In fact Sim's 7km torps are beaten only by Skane's rocket pillows (76kts) Vaq's goofy loadout (68 kts) and Minsk's stock suicide module (70kts)

 You have whats called "a credibility problem." ie: You don't know what you're talking about. Your inability to be effective in a ship and the garbage skill level of the playerbase as a whole, does not make Sims a bad ship. Sims when played correctly is a nightmare.

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3 hours ago, Ares1967 said:

 I was gonna just read and shake my head till you compared Shira to Sims in guns... maybe next time think before hitting reply.

And here I was just playing a ton of Sims and Shira but what do I know.
 

Quote

Sims guns have blahbediblah loads of data

What that means is Sims can hit further (with AFT 15.46km!),

#lol

It can shoot further. But do to the high trajectories and terrible shell speed, the IJN botes actually have a much much easier time hitting things all the way out to max range while Sims guns become increasingly random beyond, say 7-8 km.

Quote

Hell she can switch sides and get her guns back on target nearly as fast as Shira can do a single reload. Nobody in tier beats Sims gun traverse.. nobody even comes close!

Yadda yadda there is no need to get so close to a Sims that this even matters because of its garbage stealth. It is rarely any problem to just stay in open water and keep a little distance and then all that turret rotation and agility is meaningless.

 

Edited by FixCVs

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Atlanta and Sims have the same base XP modifier, AFAIK.

That's why they were amazing for operations.

 

But now that Atlanta had a massive IFHE nerf, I'm not so sure how effective it is for ranked or operations.

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1 hour ago, MrDeaf said:

Atlanta and Sims have the same base XP modifier, AFAIK.

That's why they were amazing for operations.

 

But now that Atlanta had a massive IFHE nerf, I'm not so sure how effective it is for ranked or operations.

The IFHR nerf hurts it badly when uptiered, I dont think it is too bad against ships on the same tier

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3 hours ago, FixCVs said:

And here I was just playing a ton of Sims and Shira but what do I know.

 You've played Sims and Shira, a ton, imply many, you have not. Sims B 86 matches, Shira 29. I've got 281 randoms in Sims with a +2100 PR, and it was the DD that I learned to DD with so consider its got a LOT of terrible games baked in. I've got 32 randoms in Shira which is memory serves is more than 29. Not that I remember it being particularly good or bad, its just another IJN 127mm equipped ship with a really goofy gun layout.

 You sure you know more about playing either ship than I do?

3 hours ago, FixCVs said:

#lol

It can shoot further. But do to the high trajectories and terrible shell speed, the IJN botes actually have a much much easier time hitting things all the way out to max range while Sims guns become increasingly random beyond, say 7-8 km.

 You have problems hitting with Sims guns at range, thats your issue. Straight up Sim's vs Shira or Akat in a 10km gunfight, Sims is easily the winner. Sims can wiggle and it don't matter how flat your shooting arcs are when it takes you near 7 sec

 

3 hours ago, FixCVs said:

Yadda yadda there is no need to get so close to a Sims that this even matters because of its garbage stealth. It is rarely any problem to just stay in open water and keep a little distance and then all that turret rotation and agility is meaningless.

You talk about how Sim's has worse detect than yadda yadda yadda... You fail to mention She's tied or better than 6 ships in tier. , all of which have a better w/r. So its obviously not the detection thats the issue.

Turret rotation becomes less important at range, agility becomes more. Not that it matters to the IJN boats which can't maneuver at all while keeping guns on target. So to engage in a gunfight at any range they have to be very predictable.. Sim's does not.

 

 But lets put this to rest. My Sim's vs your Shira in a training room? Guns only? Say best 2 outta 3? Then we can swap, I'll play Shira and you can play Sims. I'm a fair guy after all.

Edited by Ares1967

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