PT, balance changes

[Hapa_Fodder]

Quite a few balance changes coming! Please leave your feedback in this topic!

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/21

-Hapa

[DrHolmes52]

 

T-22.  First it gets hydro, then the hydro gets buffed.  Keep the buffs coming.

Plane spotting keeps dropping.

[Ace_04]

Interesting....

• Udaloi gets buffs that makes it more of a capable torpedo boat, in line with that half of the Soviet DD branch.  I like this change as it helps alter the playstyle a bit into more of a hybrid.
• Bagration getting more buffs just seems downright silly, as I don't think I seen one CC review on it that didn't think it was already very strong.
• Good to see Henri get some love to help alleviate some of that heavy-handed acceleration nerf.
• Not sure what the Grozovoi consumable swap means.

[warheart1992]

With all these heavy handed nerfs Kremlin is becoming nigh unplayable

[Rolkatsuki]

Good on ya for acknowledging Henri being over nerfed WG, may try her again if changes go through to live. 

[sasquatch_research]

Hey

As I have said so many times before.  Why don't you make changes to a ship when in testing and then just leave it alone, let people work around the strengths and weaknesses; this constant changing makes it less fun and given Wargaming's habit of using a NERF Bat on certain ships or downright ruining others (Germans come to mind).  As with Henri4 you never stated what they increase actually was, why is that?  Was it so small that it's miniscule as for helping offset the previous Nerf bat?  What about YueYang, any meaningful changes to a line that seems to be despised, where they have a very long cool down on torp reloads, slow gun reloads, etc

Pete

[Cicero__]

Happy about the Henri changes, but we will have to see how much of a difference it makes. More Kremlin changes are coming, so that's good. Still surprised Venezia hasn't been nerfed.

[Backspace__2015]

 Hi, I being  playing  since  the  beginning of  World of warships  over six years  and  thousands of  dollars, the  games  have  not   changed much  ,maps  ,mm, and  costs  so high  to  play  tiers 10,  I    sometimes  just  stop  playing.   Everything  is geared to  higher prices.  No middle  tier ship.  I hope  there's  improvement.  Good  Sailing  Captain. 

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

1 hour ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Quite a few balance changes coming! Please leave your feedback in this topic!

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/21

-Hapa

Why would you bother changing the reload time from 31 secs to 30.5 secs for New York Battleship?

Just trying to understand the logic behind that? Most humans dont a have reaction time that fast so is 0.5sec gonna change the world for a sub par bb performance wise for the ship or the user??

Why buff a crap ship with a crap buff? Half second will still mean the NY bb will suck, no change from before. So what's the point

 

 

[1SneakyDevil]

Buffs to Russian DDs except Khaba...seriously get your garbage together WG.

[SquirrelBytes]

1 hour ago, Rolkatsuki said:

Good on ya for acknowledging Henri being over nerfed WG, may try her again if changes go through to live. 

They give Henri a needed buff, then they nerf the unique upgrade in the same update release.

[Old_Baldy_One]

38 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

Why don't you make changes to a ship when in testing and then just leave it alone, let people work around the strengths and weaknesses; this constant changing makes it less fun and given Wargaming's habit of using a NERF Bat on certain ships or downright ruining others (Germans come to mind). 

Because the game changes, the meta changes, and frankly, testing a ship with what, a few hundred super testers...is NOTHING compared to thousands of people playing the ship every day.  This is not unique to WG at all.  Changes happen.

[Nevermore135]

24 minutes ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Why would you bother changing the reload time from 31 secs to 30.5 secs for New York Battleship?



Over a large number of battles, a slight change like this becomes statistically significant.

[sasquatch_research]

17 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

Because the game changes, the meta changes, and frankly, testing a ship with what, a few hundred super testers...is NOTHING compared to thousands of people playing the ship every day.  This is not unique to WG at all.  Changes happen.

Hey

And some of those changes are why the game is having issues and many people are finding it less consistent, less enjoyable, why CC's are doing video's talking about BB play dying, why they talk about hate for CV play, and how many times have CC's and super testers having asked why a ship needed Buff's, Nerf's, or that they are garbage only to have Wargaming release them anyways?  Changes happen, yes.  But are they truly good for the game, retaining seasoned players or attracting new ones?  All we see today is a bunch of rather "Meh" ships and yet no new scenario's, few new events, but more often popular ships getting Nerf'd for no good reason.  Was the CV rework good for the game, was IFHE good for the game, deep water torps, light cruisers like Smolensk and others similar, subs, rocket planes (AP rocket planes), proliferation of radar?   Or is the game balanced and fun??

 

Pete

[sasquatch_research]

15 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Over a large number of battles, a slight change like this becomes statistically significant.

Hey 

But then Wargaming decided to take the Hindenburg which was always a relatively good, balanced cruiser and NERF the reload and perhaps other things.  Then it no longer performed very well for several clan battle season and I raised issue myself, then Wargaming decided to buff the reload up one second (which is where it was originally) and now they ship is back to performing decently again.  So what changed, and why the need to mess with it in the first place?  Was it for balancing purposes or was it something else that motivated the reload Nerf?  Anyone with a clue knows there is a certain bias against German boats, and there has been for a long time.  I could also add in Japanese to an extent, Italians for the Roma, Pan-Asian DD's but don't worry about Russian boats, they will perform just fine, even after getting an armor nerf..

Pete

[Cicero__]

I think that a buff for FR cruisers would be useful: give the whole line (203's and Henri) 1/5 HE pen.

This would:

-Give the 203's (Algeris, Charles Martel, and Saint-Louis) 40 mm of pen out of the box. IFHE would increase this to exactly 50 mm (penning Moskva, Kurfurst deck, etc.)

-Henri's 240's would get 48 mm pen. With IFHE, this would increase to 60 mm pen, which would pen Kremlin and Soyuz deck.

I think that even with the fire % decrease, the pen increase would add more value to IFHE for the FR cruisers, and would help restore some of their value particularly to Henri, who was hit hard by the IFHE rework.

[Hapa_Fodder]

Aloha,

Keep the feedback coming folks! 

Mahalo,

-Hapa

[Batmantis_]

40 minutes ago, Quantumphysics333 said:

Still surprised Venezia hasn't been nerfed.

Why does Venezia need nerfs?  It already has the slowest main gun reload for a non-supercruiser.  In fact, her and Brindisi have the same slower base reload to compensate for their extra guns compared to Amalfi that uses the exact same gun.  Her range is middle of the road.  Detection is terrible, smoke fire penalty is terrible, torps are weak.  While she has the T10 heavy cruiser armor and a 40mm icebreaker, she can get blapped as easily as anything else.  AA is short ranged.  Doesn't mount hydro or radar.  What are you wanting to nerf, her maneuverability?  Lower the top speed?  Make her turn like a battleship?  SAP shell damage?  Because if you want SAP damage reduced, it would have to be across the entire line, as it makes no sense that the highest tier ship arbitrarily does less damage per hit than the rest of the CA's in the line.

It may be good at blapping destroyers, but it has no real good means to hunt them on its own.  It's good at chunking broadside BB's for 10k salvos with SAP, but it's still a cruiser with plenty of areas to be overmatched, and plenty of ships that can overmatch the thicker plating.

[Navalpride33]

HIV time to reach full speed reduced ??? Did I read that correctly ??? Its about time.... HIV is about as slow as Canadian molasses...

BBs out accelerate it

Cruisers out Accelerate it...

Welcome change...

[Old_Baldy_One]

20 minutes ago, sasquatch_research said:

Hey

And some of those changes are why the game is having issues and many people are finding it less consistent, less enjoyable, why CC's are doing video's talking about BB play dying, why they talk about hate for CV play, and how many times have CC's and super testers having asked why a ship needed Buff's, Nerf's, or that they are garbage only to have Wargaming release them anyways?  Changes happen, yes.  But are they truly good for the game, retaining seasoned players or attracting new ones?  All we see today is a bunch of rather "Meh" ships and yet no new scenario's, few new events, but more often popular ships getting Nerf'd for no good reason.  Was the CV rework good for the game, was IFHE good for the game, deep water torps, light cruisers like Smolensk and others similar, subs, rocket planes (AP rocket planes), proliferation of radar?   Or is the game balanced and fun??

 

Pete

That is a very different take on what you said.  You asked why they change things after the fact, and I told you why.  Whether or not those changes are good for the game or not, is another topic.

[Cicero__]

25 minutes ago, Batmantis_ said:

Why does Venezia need nerfs?  It already has the slowest main gun reload for a non-supercruiser.  In fact, her and Brindisi have the same slower base reload to compensate for their extra guns compared to Amalfi that uses the exact same gun.  Her range is middle of the road.  Detection is terrible, smoke fire penalty is terrible, torps are weak.  While she has the T10 heavy cruiser armor and a 40mm icebreaker, she can get blapped as easily as anything else.  AA is short ranged.  Doesn't mount hydro or radar.  What are you wanting to nerf, her maneuverability?  Lower the top speed?  Make her turn like a battleship?  SAP shell damage?  Because if you want SAP damage reduced, it would have to be across the entire line, as it makes no sense that the highest tier ship arbitrarily does less damage per hit than the rest of the CA's in the line.

It may be good at blapping destroyers, but it has no real good means to hunt them on its own.  It's good at chunking broadside BB's for 10k salvos with SAP, but it's still a cruiser with plenty of areas to be overmatched, and plenty of ships that can overmatch the thicker plating.

Biggest issue (for me anyway) is maneuverability. Venezia combines decent range (especially w/spotter plane) with excellent speed and turning radius. It is very difficult to hit a 36 knot ship that turns quickly (due to turning radius) at 17+ km. Despite being long, it also sits low in the water, which makes hitting the broadside or belt challenging. I'm fine with the high alpha, but the difficulty to hit it at long range (where it is most of the time) can be frustrating. All I suggest would be a tweak to the turning circle. For the most part, I agree that it isn't that overtuned.

[Alcubierre_Star_Drive]

26 minutes ago, Batmantis_ said:

Why does Venezia need nerfs?  It already has the slowest main gun reload for a non-supercruiser.  In fact, her and Brindisi have the same slower base reload to compensate for their extra guns compared to Amalfi that uses the exact same gun.  Her range is middle of the road.  Detection is terrible, smoke fire penalty is terrible, torps are weak.  While she has the T10 heavy cruiser armor and a 40mm icebreaker, she can get blapped as easily as anything else.  AA is short ranged.  Doesn't mount hydro or radar.  What are you wanting to nerf, her maneuverability?  Lower the top speed?  Make her turn like a battleship?  SAP shell damage?  Because if you want SAP damage reduced, it would have to be across the entire line, as it makes no sense that the highest tier ship arbitrarily does less damage per hit than the rest of the CA's in the line.

It may be good at blapping destroyers, but it has no real good means to hunt them on its own.  It's good at chunking broadside BB's for 10k salvos with SAP, but it's still a cruiser with plenty of areas to be overmatched, and plenty of ships that can overmatch the thicker plating.

Venezia has no obvious weaknesses aside from AA (which 99% of ships suffer from). Her spaced armor scheme swallows cruiser shells, and she can disengage from fights she cannot win.

It'd be better to remove her spaced armor scheme to make her more receptive to cruiser caliber penetrations when showing broadside.

---

Different topic. Re: Pyotr Bagration buffs... why did hydro need to be buffed in the first place? The hydro was fine as-is.

[tfcas119]

26 minutes ago, Batmantis_ said:

Why does Venezia need nerfs?  It already has the slowest main gun reload for a non-supercruiser.  In fact, her and Brindisi have the same slower base reload to compensate for their extra guns compared to Amalfi that uses the exact same gun.  Her range is middle of the road.  Detection is terrible, smoke fire penalty is terrible, torps are weak.  While she has the T10 heavy cruiser armor and a 40mm icebreaker, she can get blapped as easily as anything else.  AA is short ranged.  Doesn't mount hydro or radar.  What are you wanting to nerf, her maneuverability?  Lower the top speed?  Make her turn like a battleship?  SAP shell damage?  Because if you want SAP damage reduced, it would have to be across the entire line, as it makes no sense that the highest tier ship arbitrarily does less damage per hit than the rest of the CA's in the line.

It may be good at blapping destroyers, but it has no real good means to hunt them on its own.  It's good at chunking broadside BB's for 10k salvos with SAP, but it's still a cruiser with plenty of areas to be overmatched, and plenty of ships that can overmatch the thicker plating.

This season of clan battles is why.

[yashma]

32 minutes ago, Batmantis_ said:

Why does Venezia need nerfs?  It already has the slowest main gun reload for a non-supercruiser.  In fact, her and Brindisi have the same slower base reload to compensate for their extra guns compared to Amalfi that uses the exact same gun.  Her range is middle of the road.  Detection is terrible, smoke fire penalty is terrible, torps are weak.  While she has the T10 heavy cruiser armor and a 40mm icebreaker, she can get blapped as easily as anything else.  AA is short ranged.  Doesn't mount hydro or radar.  What are you wanting to nerf, her maneuverability?  Lower the top speed?  Make her turn like a battleship?  SAP shell damage?  Because if you want SAP damage reduced, it would have to be across the entire line, as it makes no sense that the highest tier ship arbitrarily does less damage per hit than the rest of the CA's in the line.

It may be good at blapping destroyers, but it has no real good means to hunt them on its own.  It's good at chunking broadside BB's for 10k salvos with SAP, but it's still a cruiser with plenty of areas to be overmatched, and plenty of ships that can overmatch the thicker plating.

The Venezia is easily one of the strongest tier X cruisers tier 10 at the moment.  

The long reload doesn't matter given the incredible alpha and the fact her SAP DPM outclasses most heavy cruiser HE DPM.  Her range is quite good, she can shoot out to max of 23km with the aid of spotter plane.  Her detection isn't good, but it's not terrible for an open water cruiser.  The smoke firing penalty isn't a major concern given her play style and the fact her smoke is meant more as a means of disengaging than doing damage.  She has fantastic handling, which when coupled with her armor scheme and unique smoke means she is arguably the single most survivable cruiser in the entire game when played well.  While her AAA is short ranged, the Venezia has some of the best counter-play to CVs with her great handling and smoke giving her a fighting chance of dodging (no ship in the game has AAA good enough to completely stop a skilled CV from striking anyway).  She is somewhat lacking in team utility, but the lack of hydro isn't a major concern given her handling, and pretty much all non-radar cruisers are dependent on team spotting.

 

I am biased towards the Venezia and can't objectively assess whether she needs nerfs or not.  Deep down I suspect she is a little over tuned and needs a handling nerf, but this is one case where I would be ecstatic if the spreadsheets say she's fine.  Still, I'd be surprised if she escapes without nerfs.  

[Bravo4zero]

2 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

Interesting....

• Not sure what the Grozovoi consumable swap means.

I’m interested in this one too mate! Wonder if it just relates to the position of the consumable? Iirc Speedboost is in the last position of consumables whereas other ships tend to have it more to the left. Could be wrong as I’m not in front of my PC to check