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soupflakes

Uptier Matchmaking Needs Fixed

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Ok, hear me out.  I've just gotten done playing a few battles tonight in the Sinop, and been uptiered to 9, and not one or two, JB, Musashi, and Georgia in the last one, JB, Musashi, and Iowa in the first one.  I believe, that at ONE time, you could uptier 2 tiers and still be relatively competitive, but it's becoming exceedingly rare.  With ALL of the new ships coming in, you just get wrecked by Alaskas, Azumas, Musashis, Georgias, JB's, etc etc.  There are just too many FAR too powerful ships to be uptiered 2 tiers anymore.  I would be more than willing to wait an extra minute or two for matchmaking to find within 1 tier level.  From what I've been seeing, tier 7 BB's are just too slow, too inaccurate, and too short range to do anything, by the time a JB is in range he's removed half my health, and I'm angled...  Even if you push WITH a couple tier 9s, you're priority target, and why wouldn't you be? And god forbid you're in a tier 6 and a tier 8 carrier is in there, I was in the Izmail with another BB literally 10 feet away, overlapping AA, tier 8 CV got every single torp run off, with us just blasting away to no avail.

TL:DR Tiering system needs to be reduced from 2 to 1 uptier max, with the state of the power creep, you rarely stand a chance as a bottom tier BB.

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2 minutes ago, soupflakes said:

Ok, hear me out.  I've just gotten done playing a few battles tonight in the Sinop, and been uptiered to 9, and not one or two, JB, Musashi, and Georgia in the last one, JB, Musashi, and Iowa in the first one.  I believe, that at ONE time, you could uptier 2 tiers and still be relatively competitive, but it's becoming exceedingly rare.  With ALL of the new ships coming in, you just get wrecked by Alaskas, Azumas, Musashis, Georgias, JB's, etc etc.  There are just too many FAR too powerful ships to be uptiered 2 tiers anymore.  I would be more than willing to wait an extra minute or two for matchmaking to find within 1 tier level.  From what I've been seeing, tier 7 BB's are just too slow, too inaccurate, and too short range to do anything, by the time a JB is in range he's removed half my health, and I'm angled...  Even if you push WITH a couple tier 9s, you're priority target, and why wouldn't you be? And god forbid you're in a tier 6 and a tier 8 carrier is in there, I was in the Izmail with another BB literally 10 feet away, overlapping AA, tier 8 CV got every single torp run off, with us just blasting away to no avail.

TL:DR Tiering system needs to be reduced from 2 to 1 uptier max, with the state of the power creep, you rarely stand a chance as a bottom tier BB.

Its not MM issue, its a power creep issue... As long as Op/over capable ships and our appetite for power creep products exist.

Adapt to the situation as you see fit..

Changing MM rules will not fix the problem you're trying to address.

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2 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Its not MM issue, its a power creep issue... As long as Op/over capable ships and our appetite for power creep products exist.

Adapt to the situation as you see fit..

Changing MM rules will not fix the problem you're trying to address.

Out of curiosity why not?  I'd much rather take on a bismark and an Alabama in a Sinop, than a JB and a Georgia.  If a ship is OP, and then it's top tier, that's magnified 2 times, is it still one tier up?  Sure, but not nearly as bad.  When you've got Colorados trying to take on Musashis and Azumas, it's just not fun.  But Alabamas and Baltimores?  Sure.

Edited by soupflakes

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22 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Its not MM issue, its a power creep issue... As long as Op/over capable ships and our appetite for power creep products exist.

Adapt to the situation as you see fit..

Changing MM rules will not fix the problem you're trying to address.

It's not even a power creep issue.  It's a player issue.  The OP's problem is looking him in the mirror.

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2 minutes ago, Grapefruitcannon said:

Sinop laughs at t9 ships...

The JB sure was laughing at me, one on one, angled, and he's taking 10 to 12 k off with every salvo.

 

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

It's not even a power creep issue.  It's a player issue.  The OP's problem is looking him in the mirror.

Such an original post, did you read that on literally every other post in the forum? 

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Just now, soupflakes said:

The JB sure was laughing at me, one on one, angled, and he's taking 10 to 12 k off with every salvo.

 

You want too bait the JB too fire at your side plate armor not your bow...That should bounce off most of the shells.

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1 minute ago, Grapefruitcannon said:

You want too bait the JB too fire at your side plate armor not your bow...That should bounce off most of the shells.

Right that was what I was trying to do, just get him to hit that side armor, not bow in, but maybe I was just up against a perfect shot player.  Basically angled ALMOST so I could get my rear gun on him, take his shots, swing out a smidge, get the rear gun firing, then swing back in a bit.  Even wiggle back and forth to try to throw off aim.

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3 minutes ago, soupflakes said:

Such an original post, did you read that on literally every other post in the forum? 

Instead of being snarky, maybe you should reflect on what I said.  Complaining about the tier spread only shows a lack of experience, situational awareness, and self confidence.  Ships that are bottom tier can be productive if you know what you're doing.  If you don't, you will pay for that deficiency.  It's as simple as that.

 

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10 minutes ago, Crucis said:

It's not even a power creep issue.  It's a player issue.  The OP's problem is looking him in the mirror.

It will soon be an issue if the power creep issue is not addressed first...

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Instead of being snarky, maybe you should reflect on what I said.  Complaining about the tier spread only shows a lack of experience, situational awareness, and self confidence.  Ships that are bottom tier can be productive if you know what you're doing.  If you don't, you will pay for that deficiency.  It's as simple as that.

 

Its snarky because it's not helpful.  At all.  Power creep is undeniable.  When let's say a Colorado was fighing other tech line ships, it stood a decent chance.  But then we got the JB (Which is proven to be OP, or wargaming wouldn't have removed it) We get super cruisers with more health than your BB.  It's obviously happened.  Like I said, if you read my statement, it's becoming RARER to be able to do well in an 2 uptiered game.  Of course it's not impossible, but it's getting worse.  As I said, you have people trying to grind the tech line, and now, power creep has made Tier 9 ships even MORE powerful, so you will have a harder time to do well.  You used to not face Musashi, Georgia, Azuma, etc etc, you faced Iowa, FDG, etc.  There is a difference there.

There always has to be an [edited] in everyone of these forums that says "GIT GUD"  It's annoying. Especially for people that enjoy playing, and you know, have kids, and lives, and jobs, and have to do other thing than play 30 battles a day.

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11 minutes ago, soupflakes said:

Right that was what I was trying to do, just get him to hit that side armor, not bow in, but maybe I was just up against a perfect shot player.  Basically angled ALMOST so I could get my rear gun on him, take his shots, swing out a smidge, get the rear gun firing, then swing back in a bit.  Even wiggle back and forth to try to throw off aim.

Sounds like he was blasting your superstructure. The quirk with most russian bbs is when your rear turret can fire you are at the optimum ricochet angle.  Try the training room and load a sinop as an enemy ship and mess around with it. Honestly best way to find weak points in any ship. I find the sinop a very capable ship even when its bottom tier.

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3 hours ago, Crucis said:

Instead of being snarky, maybe you should reflect on what I said.  Complaining about the tier spread only shows a lack of experience, situational awareness, and self confidence.  Ships that are bottom tier can be productive if you know what you're doing.  If you don't, you will pay for that deficiency.  It's as simple as that.

 

Damn, so much to infer from a simple post about matchmaking. Yes, you can be effective when you are bottom. Is it easy, even for a unicum player? I would say not. The fact is that the game is less enjoyable when the MM spread is +-2 rather than +-1 tier, and "Get good" is not a valid response to that. Valid responses would include tips to help the player perform better when bottom tier, or a practical response concerning queue times and server population. 

In fact this response only shows a unjustified supercilious attitude from a player who thinks his large amount of "experience" gives him reason to bash newer players when he is scarcely better than them. If you're gonna be so condescending, at least be good at the game yourself. 

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7 hours ago, Aduial said:

Damn, so much to infer from a simple post about matchmaking. Yes, you can be effective when you are bottom. Is it easy, even for a unicum player? I would say not. The fact is that the game is less enjoyable when the MM spread is +-2 rather than +-1 tier, and "Get good" is not a valid response to that. Valid responses would include tips to help the player perform better when bottom tier, or a practical response concerning queue times and server population. 

In fact this response only shows a unjustified supercilious attitude from a player who thinks his large amount of "experience" gives him reason to bash newer players when he is scarcely better than them. If you're gonna be so condescending, at least be good at the game yourself. 

Dude, I'm good enough and have enough experience that I'm not phased by being bottom tier.  And for the record, I did NOT say "get good" nor "git gud".  Also, yes, sometimes you may not be effective when bottom tier.  That's not really the entire point here.  It's more about thinking that you ***can*** be effective, rather than those who whine on that they can't be effective.  It's about being good enough, experienced enough, and confident enough to have a positive attitude even when you're bottom tier.  Everybody has a stinker of a game now and again.  That's not the point.  It's about having the confidence in yourself that you can have good games even when bottom tier. 

It's also about understanding that sometimes having "a good game even when bottom tier" doesn't have to mean that you did top tier levels of damage.  Sometimes you just have a marginal game but manage to be there and make some useful contributions to the team effort, even if they don't show up in damage and kills.  Sometimes, a bottom tier DD may not land any torps during a battle no matter how hard her tried, but if he can spot the enemy and grab a cap or 2, and maybe help engage enemy DDs, the effort will help the team win, even if it doesn't look like a great game "on paper".

I don't give a damn if you think that I'm condescending.  Condescension is not my intent.  I'm just tired of people making an excuse of tier spread when the problem is of their own making.  So you can take your stat shaming attack on me and stuff it.

 

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11 hours ago, soupflakes said:

Its snarky because it's not helpful.  At all.  Power creep is undeniable.  When let's say a Colorado was fighing other tech line ships, it stood a decent chance.  But then we got the JB (Which is proven to be OP, or wargaming wouldn't have removed it) We get super cruisers with more health than your BB.  It's obviously happened.  Like I said, if you read my statement, it's becoming RARER to be able to do well in an 2 uptiered game.  Of course it's not impossible, but it's getting worse.  As I said, you have people trying to grind the tech line, and now, power creep has made Tier 9 ships even MORE powerful, so you will have a harder time to do well.  You used to not face Musashi, Georgia, Azuma, etc etc, you faced Iowa, FDG, etc.  There is a difference there.

There always has to be an [edited] in everyone of these forums that says "GIT GUD"  It's annoying. Especially for people that enjoy playing, and you know, have kids, and lives, and jobs, and have to do other thing than play 30 battles a day.

Horse feathers.

It's entirely helpful.  I explained what you need to do to get over this so-called problem.  And at no time did I say "git gud".  But now you're making more excuses.  None of those things prevents someone from learning how to play decently when bottom tiered.

As for facing Musashis, etc.  You're right.  I didn't have to face them in tier 7's.  I had to face Yamatos and Montanas in my Colorado, because I started with this game during open beta when the tier spread was +/- THREE tiers, rather than the current +/- two tiers.

 

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6 hours ago, Crucis said:

Horse feathers.

It's entirely helpful.  I explained what you need to do to get over this so-called problem.  And at no time did I say "git gud".  But now you're making more excuses.  None of those things prevents someone from learning how to play decently when bottom tiered.

As for facing Musashis, etc.  You're right.  I didn't have to face them in tier 7's.  I had to face Yamatos and Montanas in my Colorado, because I started with this game during open beta when the tier spread was +/- THREE tiers, rather than the current +/- two tiers.

 

Sweet you made my point.  Why not three tiers?  Was it that yamatos were too powerful for tier 7s?  Was it that at the time 2 tiers made more sense?  The game has changed since open beta. Many more powerful ships have entered the game, meaning maybe it's time to think about that two tiers up is similar NOW to when it was 3 tiers back when there werent tier 9 yamatos and super cruisers galore. 

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23 hours ago, Grapefruitcannon said:

Sounds like he was blasting your superstructure. The quirk with most russian bbs is when your rear turret can fire you are at the optimum ricochet angle.  Try the training room and load a sinop as an enemy ship and mess around with it. Honestly best way to find weak points in any ship. I find the sinop a very capable ship even when its bottom tier.

Hey thank you for actually trying to help, I think I figured out my major problem, which was actually not angling enough, have had a few good games in Ranked with the Sinop now.  I did what you said and angled a bit more, however, it was only against tier 7's.  I still think with the amount of new ships out now, it may be time to look at reducing it from 2 tiers to 1. I've had a few games now where I'm top tier in the Massy, and it really feels like seal clubbing, the other day myself and a bismark just rolled around and demolished the lower tier ships.

 

Edited by soupflakes

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I agree with the OP.  Power creep is a thing.  Several CC's have commented on it and said something about it on their streams.   t7 gets the bent over backwards end of it.   The MM between a general t7 and a t9 is just too much.  I have found myself in multiple MMs, where I was the only t7 in a t9 match. All that happens is I get blapped first no matter if I am angled or not.  the divide is just too much.  Going back to the OPs, maybe it is time to revisit the MM tiers and where they fall in terms of MM. I would rather wait and match up with other 7s and 8s than be the only 7 in a 9 game.  That is just not fun, more frustrating than fun. 

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I have a complaint! I just finished my first Sub battle. The natch up was 2 human player and 8 Cpmoputer apysers?vs 12 Human player! Just how unfair is THAT!!!

 

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