Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
tcbaker777

Battle of Samar

8 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

3,383
[HINON]
[HINON]
Members
8,298 posts
12,202 battles

a simple question, the Battle of Samar, but Taffey 3 is replaced by the US fleet that would have been at Surigao Strait, who wins?

Discuss

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,242
[SALVO]
Members
5,315 posts
4,556 battles
1 hour ago, tcbaker777 said:

a simple question, the Battle of Samar, but Taffey 3 is replaced by the US fleet that would have been at Surigao Strait, who wins?

Discuss

Who blocks Surigao then? Are we free to assume Nishimura and Shima linked with Kurita off Samar? Where is Taffey 3? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,383
[HINON]
[HINON]
Members
8,298 posts
12,202 battles
12 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Who blocks Surigao then? Are we free to assume Nishimura and Shima linked with Kurita off Samar? Where is Taffey 3? 

i think the video puts Taffey 3 at Surigao, im not sure, which would probably be dealt with just as easy with them going up against 6 CVEs

Edited by tcbaker777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,406
[IRNBN]
Members
3,695 posts
10,741 battles
1 hour ago, tcbaker777 said:

a simple question, the Battle of Samar, but Taffey 3 is replaced by the US fleet that would have been at Surigao Strait, who wins?

Discuss

     There's a good reason why good historians shy away from "what if"s and the best refrain from woulda-coulda-shoulda rockingchair hindsight.

     That said, since by late 1944 all major US surface combatants had been fitted with current fire control radar and analog plotting computers, Kurita's lead elements  would have run into a storm of accurate long-range fire and either disengaged or been shot to bits. He wouldn't have stood a snowball's chance in hell.

  • Cool 3
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,223
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
28,234 posts
24,629 battles

I love all these Axis "What If" threads because the end result is always going to be the slaughter of the Axis.

http://combinedfleet.com/battles/Leyte_Campaign#Samar

Kurita's Center Force

3 BBs (1 Yamato, 1 Nagato, 2 Kongo-classes)

6 CAs

2 CLs

11 DDs

 

So, Taffy 3 gets replaced?  This was what made up Taffy 3.

6 CVEs (stuff like USS Gambier Bay, a cheap little CVE of the Casablanca-class)

3 DDs

3 DDEs

 

And replace Taffy 3 with RAdm Oldendorff's Surigao Strait force

http://combinedfleet.com/battles/Leyte_Campaign#Surigao_Strait

6 Battleships (2 Colorado, 1 Pennsylvania, 2 Tennessee, 1 Pennsylvania-classes)

4 CAs

5 CLs

29 DESTROYERS

39 Motor Torpedo Boats

 

Not to mention Taffy 1 & 2 were still in the area, and will lend support as before:

12 CVEs

6 DDs

5 DDEs

 

I'm sorry, the US Navy turned back Kurita's Center Force with a weaker force in Taffy 3, so having Oldendorff's ships there that was significantly stronger, while still retaining the services of Taffy 1 & 2, the IJN would have been butchered.

There will still be a continuous storm of USN CV aircraft attacking Kurita's ships.

There will now be BBs, CAs, CLs shooting up the IJN force.

Even worse, the Destroyer screen will be MASSIVE this time, unlike when it was historically with Taffy 3.

 

Again, the IJN will be slaughtered here.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
579
[_I_]
Members
277 posts
32 minutes ago, So_lt_Goes said:

That said, since by late 1944 all major US surface combatants had been fitted with current fire control radar and analog plotting computers, Kurita's lead elements  would have run into a storm of accurate long-range fire and either disengaged or been shot to bits. He wouldn't have stood a snowball's chance in hell.

 

4 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

I'm sorry, the US Navy turned back Kurita's Center Force with a weaker force in Taffy 3, so having Oldendorff's ships there that was significantly stronger, while still retaining the services of Taffy 1 & 2, the IJN would have been butchered.

Precisely. Kurita buggered off in the face of a handfull of destoyers and a few half-armed planes. If he had seen Oldendorf's battle line he would have soiled his kimono.

  • Cool 2
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,223
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
28,234 posts
24,629 battles
7 minutes ago, Hookie_Bell said:

 

Precisely. Kurita buggered off in the face of a handfull of destoyers and a few half-armed planes. If he had seen Oldendorf's battle line he would have soiled his kimono.

Oldendorff had heavy ships that Taffy 3 lacked, but he also had with him an insane number of Destroyers.

 

Historically the big Battle of Leyte Gulf was already a decisive victory for the Allies.  If Halsey wasn't an idiot (again) and zipped off taking all the Big Fleet Carriers and All The Newest BBs of the US Navy, it would have been even more glorious for the Allies.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,122
[TDRB]
Members
5,153 posts
13,741 battles

Because the US commanders have the larger force, better technology and much better damage control the advantage, by a large margin is in their favor. With the radar the US DD's can shield the capital ships until ready for battle while tracking and plotting firing solutions. We saw just how good the radar & West Virginia gunners were on a moonless night it the final BB vs BB naval battle. For the  Japanese to have any chance the US commanders would have to screw up, which is what actually happened &  gave Taffy 3 the opportunity to become heroes in real life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×