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krishkhavin

Scharnhorst Captain build for upcoming ranked season

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Will a tank build be better than a secondary build?

I have PM, AR, JoAT, SI.

Should I go Fire prevention and Concealment expert OR Manual Fire Control and AFT.

Will concealment expert even help in 7v7 ranked? if not should I just get AFT and fire prevention because I feel that with the HE spam FP will be a good idea.

AFT without MFC useless? 

Any help appreciated!

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I think it will depend a lot on your play style and how the meta for this season plays out. I am figuring that with very little radar, and no CV's for spotting we are going to see a lot of DD heavy teams. There are plenty of sneaky little boats that are likely to be running around. With that in mind, I will probably move me secondary spec captain over from GK. DD's are going to out spot the Shiny Horse by a long margin, so not sure that CE is really going to be worth it. I would rather have those secondary mounts at firing at their full potential. I love brawling German BB's, but I would think a tank build would be viable as well.

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Bft, aft, fire prevention. 

Full secondary build minus manual secondaries. 

You want to bully ships and use your speed to unbalance the enemy.

Your primary target are cruisers, then destroyers.  

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What I would probably use if I didn't own a  Kuznetzov Sinop and felt like breaking out my Scharny :Smile_great:

 

Dont really need CE for ranked in a BB. Especially something that gets in close like Scharn or Sinop. Also dont need anything for your torps, and dont really need anything for your consumables (no hydro or anything). Secondaries are probably the way to go. 

 

If (probably when, considering the IFHE changes neutering Atlanta/Flint) a BB meta develops,  You could even mess around with DE. It would be a tight squeeze into a build, but Scharn has a respectable fire chance on her secondaries and a quick reload on her main battery. Might be able to farm some serious burn damage. I woudl say either take it over SI, or drop FP and EL for DE and AR. This is one of those far out builds that might be a meme but also might be glorious. I would go into the season with just AFT, MFC, and FP (no DE)

 

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For the most part I run PM , EL , EM , BFT , AFT , IFHE (yes , 2nd's get 32-47mm pen) , CE .

I'm fast , agile , 50% up to speed faster , start shredding at 8km with 2nd's ( and getting some cits ), all that with torps to top it off .

Fully 26% of my battles are on the Sharn  , but hey , mostly co-op .

But......this is what I like.....your style of driving it is all you .

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1 hour ago, krishkhavin said:

Will a tank build be better than a secondary build?

I have PM, AR, JoAT, SI.

Should I go Fire prevention and Concealment expert OR Manual Fire Control and AFT.

Will concealment expert even help in 7v7 ranked? if not should I just get AFT and fire prevention because I feel that with the HE spam FP will be a good idea.

AFT without MFC useless? 

Any help appreciated!

Definite no on the CE...Shiny is a brawler (actually don't have it but Gneis is it's sister in mayhem & they basically play the same) & being spotted is it's thing.

CE doesn't bring it down to stealth torping ability anyway & locking 2ndaries on the DDs while citadelling the cruisers & charge torping the BBs is what the Shiny shines at.

It's got something for everybody & turtleback to thwart the cits.

Not sure how it's handling compares to Gneis though but I always used rudder shift on Gneis & at full speed have outmaneuvered & torpedo out DDs w/it...& that's just way too much fun. Although that was when the German BBs 1st came out so due to power creep (many other DD options out there now) YMMV.

Fortunately you won't have to face any of the fire breathing IJN gunboats like you do in random although FP might still be a good option because there are a lot of fire breathing CLs out there...fortunately 1 mistake by them & you can eat them for lunch but until they make that mistake you might want that protection.

(Oops...my bad...you already had that PM covered in your OP...thought you had PT) The extra 1 point on PM is good for brawlers also...nice to keep not only those main batteries but also those torps in action while at kissing ranges.

I like PT in brawlers also because sometimes it gives you an idea when torps are on the way when the number decreases (torps are armed) & then the number increases again (torps on way & guns locked on you again). Not always reliable...could have been different ships...but when a DD or any other torp ship stops firing at you then starts up again & the PT toggles during that time it can give you a heads up. If you have a 19 pointer you can usually find the extra point to take both.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos
Rambling...sorry

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1 hour ago, krishkhavin said:

Will a tank build be better than a secondary build?

I have PM, AR, JoAT, SI.

Should I go Fire prevention and Concealment expert OR Manual Fire Control and AFT.

Will concealment expert even help in 7v7 ranked? if not should I just get AFT and fire prevention because I feel that with the HE spam FP will be a good idea.

AFT without MFC useless? 

Any help appreciated!

Actually unless your using tier 8 or higher on a ship like a Bismarck the manual secondary guns are useless. So just go for secondary build leaving out the manual secondary skill. Also you need Aiming Mod 1 on Scharnhorst instead of secondary module. While on Gneisenau you take secondary gun module instead of Aiming Mod. 

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I ran a secondary build on it and found it lacking. It's biggest problem is a combination of low max range (only 8km) and slow reload. Even if you do a full meme secondary build the 150mm guns are only going to fire every 6 seconds.

Edited by macktkau2

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1 hour ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Full secondary build minus manual secondaries. 

 

8 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Actually unless your using tier 8 or higher on a ship like a Bismarck the manual secondary guns are useless. So just go for secondary build leaving out the manual secondary skill. Also you need Aiming Mod 1 on Scharnhorst instead of secondary module. While on Gneisenau you take secondary gun module instead of Aiming Mod. 

I have no idea why you would omit MFCSA in a secondary build. If you only run the module and AFT, your secondaries won't hit anything smaller than a BB. The second poster seems to have misread the captain skill description: -60% to the maximum dispersion of shells for the secondary armament of Tier VII-X ships / -15% to the maximum dispersion of shells for the secondary armament of Tier I-VI ships.

The skill is useless for T6 and below, not T7 and below. 

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2 minutes ago, Aduial said:

 

I have no idea why you would omit MFCSA in a secondary build. If you only run the module and AFT, your secondaries won't hit anything smaller than a BB. The second poster seems to have misread the captain skill description: -60% to the maximum dispersion of shells for the secondary armament of Tier VII-X ships / -15% to the maximum dispersion of shells for the secondary armament of Tier I-VI ships.

The skill is useless for T6 and below, not T7 and below. 

On Scharnhorst I run BFT, AFT, AR, and secondary flags which at 7km range puts out quite the barrage of fire. On Gneisenau same thing except it gets the secondary gun module so it’s secondary range gets out to 8km. It’s Bismarck and ships like that that get the 11km+ ranged secondary guns that need manual control because of how far and wide the shells travel. But at tier 7 and under the secondary guns are short enough ranged that as long as you increase the range and rate of fire some then you will be scoring quite a few hits.

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Just now, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

On Scharnhorst I run BFT, AFT, AR, and secondary flags which at 7km range puts out quite the barrage of fire. On Gneisenau same thing except it gets the secondary gun module so it’s secondary range gets out to 8km. It’s Bismarck and ships like that that get the 11km+ ranged secondary guns that need manual control because of how far and wide the shells travel. But at tier 7 and under the secondary guns are short enough ranged that as long as you increase the range and rate of fire some then you will be scoring quite a few hits.

You missed the part where the skill still reduces dispersion by 60%. Your logic sounds like "I'm already hitting shells, so why would I want to hit more?", but that doesn't make sense when you can literally hit double the number of shells by speccing MFCSA (in theory it might be a little less, but I think the point still stands). IMO, if you don't run MFCSA you can't be justified in investing 7 points (BFT, AFT) since your secondaries won't be very effective anyway. 

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4 minutes ago, Aduial said:

You missed the part where the skill still reduces dispersion by 60%. Your logic sounds like "I'm already hitting shells, so why would I want to hit more?", but that doesn't make sense when you can literally hit double the number of shells by speccing MFCSA (in theory it might be a little less, but I think the point still stands). IMO, if you don't run MFCSA you can't be justified in investing 7 points (BFT, AFT) since your secondaries won't be very effective anyway. 

I guess I  neglected  to mention I also tend to brawl at point blank range when ever possible which ironically happens quite a bit on some of the Ranked maps we will be using. So the odds of missing are so low. And not like I did not ever consider MFCSA, but it would have meant either losing secondary range, concealment, or rate of fire in main guns or something. Also the secondary build I use greatly increases AA output as added bonus to the secondary build.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

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As a side note. Scharnhorst is generally considered a poor pick for Ranked. She will struggle against other BBs and some heavy cruisers with 25mm armor plating due to her inability to overmatch those ships. 

I would recommend grinding for Sinop as her excellent durability and firepower at close ranges allow her to dominate the ranked meta. 

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18 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I guess I  neglected  to mention I also tend to brawl at point blank range when ever possible which ironically happens quite a bit on some of the Ranked maps we will be using. So the odds of missing are so low. And not like I did not ever consider MFCSA, but it would have meant either losing secondary range, concealment, or rate of fire in main guns or something. Also the secondary build I use greatly increases AA output as added bonus to the secondary build.

Against DDs, you don't wanna be point-blank, so MFCSA will help when they get spotted 6-8km out. If they get closer, secondaries don't have a great hit chance against small targets without MFCSA even at 4-5km, so it still helps greatly. 

Against cruisers, unless they're stupid or have torpedoes they will want to kite away and rarely will allow you to get to "point-blank range". Again, being able to shred them with secondaries at 7-8km when they're trying to create distance is important.

Against BBs, similarly, they will try to prevent you from getting under 6km, so you need to hit them from 7-8km in a lot of cases. 

In other words, if you only want your secondaries to be effective at such close ranges, AFT is a wasted 4 points. 

As a side note, the topic is a ranked build recommendation, so AA is rather irrelevant in the discussion. Additionally, there's no skill that increases rate of fire for main guns in your build. Lastly, like some other commenters pointed out, concealment on a BB is not that important in ranked. 

If you wanna stick to your build, that's fine, but I think it's important that you know it's quite sub-optimal, especially in a ranked setting. 

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