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HMSRodney_1941

Is Alsace really that bad after the nerf?

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I have been working on getting the Kremlin but French's BB is growing on me fast which stopped me from researching the T8 BB of Soviet. I love Lyon, Dunkerque, and Richelieu. I might spend my xp to get the Alsace first. But I read lots of reviews about how bad the ship has become since the nerf. I mainly play coop but I also play random for the clan in the weekly naval battle. I have a 12pts Commander ready for the ship but I probably can't spend the point for IFHE, which means the secondary wouldn't do much more damage than the Richelieu. Moreover, I will have to sell the Richelieu or for Alsace due to a lack of credits. So I will have a bigger ship than Richelieu but with 4 more rifles that are very inaccurate. What are your thoughts on the Alsace? Is it worth to spend the xp on this ship? Thanks a lot!

My Dunkerque and Richelieu:

20200516161022_1.jpg

Edited by HMSRodney_1941

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Alsace is a nice ship. You get 2 Kitakazies strapped to each of her sides @11km secondaries is hilarious if you build for it.

Guns are shotguns but get a solid hit from them and you'll be rewarded. All around I think IMO a good T9 for sure.

You'd have to play it to see. It all depends on how you set her up.

:Smile_honoring:

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  Alsace is one of my favs. They toned the sigma and reload down to bring her in line, but she is very much in line. Use her decent turret traverse and 12 shell amalgam groupings to hunt broadsides. Bow in targets can be hit with surprisingly good HE, engine boosting helps to limit your vulnerable positions. Like most 15" BB's, you really do have to emphasize finding broadside targets more. You'll love her!

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Alsace is a meme ship, 12 guns at T9 and a huge amount of secondaries, i love mine and plan on keeping her after ive gotten through her grind to Repub

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alsace is good fun but the guns can be frustrating at times, if you want a taste of old alsace i would recommend buying the borgape now that ship is a monster.

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Alsace pre-nerf was pretty good but far from OP. Post nerf it is a shadow of it's old self. Many like myself felt it didn't need a nerf at all (this was hotly debated at the time) let alone a big sigma and reload nerf together. One or the other might have ben ok but it did not need both. I mean it was like a cylinder bore shotgun originally so why they felt it needed to be made even worse accuracy wise AND take longer to reload is beyond me?

It is a good ship still don't get me wrong but just not what it was and it saddens me as it was actually fun to play. I don't play it as much now. They did a similar unneeded nerf to Konig (T5 KM  BB) and that ship is now a shadow of it's former self too.

I wish WG had adopted the small incremental nerf policy and got rid of the nerf hammer a long time ago. They should really revisit some of the ships they over nerfed from the past.

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Still one of my favorite ships. It may have a shot gun dispersion but if you think about it shot guns are still dangerous weapons; you don't want to be on the wrong end of the dozen slugs she can send your way.

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2 hours ago, Versili said:

Alsace is a nice ship. You get 2 Kitakazies strapped to each of her sides @11km secondaries is hilarious if you build for it.

 

Kitakaze doesn't need IFHE to penetrate even DDs/superstructures, even with IFHE it only reaches 21mm. 

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Just some simple Tech Tree Tier IX BB Damage Average numbers from RU Server (1st Quarter 2020).  The largest of the servers.

Alsace 67,340

Lion 66,640

Sovetsky Soyuz 62,033

Izumo 58,596

Iowa 57,515

FDG 57, 276

 

Alsace is a fantastic BB in Tier IX.  I remember when the nerfs happened there were all sorts of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! posts about it making her all the sudden useless.  But as you can see, she tops all the Tech Tree Tier IX Battleships in damage dealing.

More damage than HE Fire Damage Farming Lion.

More damage than "Russian Bias" Sovetsky Soyuz.

 

I always laughed at anyone that thought Alsace became a bad ship.

 

She used to be insane though before she got reigned in.

 

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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Alsace is a great ship, secondaries in particular are great for fire-starting, good flanker overall. However, when you get to Republique (if you decide to research her), get ready to change your playstyle, as Republique plays (and feels) a little different than the rest of the line. Good luck!

Edited by Quantumphysics333

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Even post nerfed the Alsace is still one of my favorite T9 BB, still a lot of fun to play and especially with a troll secondary build!  it's the one and only tech tree T9 BB i kept in my port actually.

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10 minutes ago, HMSRodney_1941 said:

Thank you, everyone, for the positive response! I think I will get the ship! :Smile_smile:

Good decision. 

A bit more so than Richelieu, the Alsace is a flanker and her targets are Cruisers. Use her speed to move to the edges of maps and to get out of trouble - don’t use her speed to get into trouble until mid battle at least - charging down battleships and using your secondaries for fires (not direct damage anymore) is great fun, but also suicide if you do it early on. Personally, I only did it late battle and it worked well. 

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It used to be super fun with ifhe secondaries but no longer. There were games I did 70k in direct damage alone.

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Alsace was fun enough and is a decent ship. She is far from a 'must have' though and I found Republic to be just okay, also not a 'must have'. I don't play either anymore. The only French BB I still play is Jean Bart, which I got with coal. There is no reason to rush this line. If you enjoy the other lines you are working on I would keeping working on them and come back for Alsace later.

When I want to brawl in Coop, I take Tirpitz not Alsace because Alsace takes damage faster. If I didn't have Tirpitz I would use Bismarck instead of Alsace for brawling.

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18 hours ago, HMSRodney_1941 said:

I have been working on getting the Kremlin but French's BB is growing on me fast which stopped me from researching the T8 BB of Soviet. I love Lyon, Dunkerque, and Richelieu. I might spend my xp to get the Alsace first. But I read lots of reviews about how bad the ship has become since the nerf. I mainly play coop but I also play random for the clan in the weekly naval battle. I have a 12pts Commander ready for the ship but I probably can't spend the point for IFHE, which means the secondary wouldn't do much more damage than the Richelieu. Moreover, I will have to sell the Richelieu or for Alsace due to a lack of credits. So I will have a bigger ship than Richelieu but with 4 more rifles that are very inaccurate. What are your thoughts on the Alsace? Is it worth to spend the xp on this ship? Thanks a lot!

My Dunkerque and Richelieu:

20200516161022_1.jpg

It's fun ship.  But I wouldn't waste commander points on IFHE.  The secondary guns don't really need it, and the tertiary guns still wouldn't be able to punch enough armor for it to be worth decreasing their odds of starting fires.  I'll admit I haven't played mine at all since I got Bourgogne.  If there is ever a tier 9 ranked maybe I'll use it for that, although Georgia would probably work better.  Also, the new tier German premium BB looks like it was specifically designed to counter Alsace.

 

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49 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

When did the nerf being discussed actually take place? 

 

There has been several that affected her. The most recent ones were the cruiser armor buff and IFHE nerf. 

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2 minutes ago, Tekina_ said:

There has been several that affected her. The most recent ones were the cruiser armor buff and IFHE nerf. 

OK.  

First, I was wondering if the nerfs took place before I got the Alsace, because I hadn't noticed anything in battle, or noted any listed changes, recently.  

Second, I wish people would not refer to changes to OTHER ships, or to the overall game mechanics, with vague comments about a specific ship being "nerfed" or buffed".   

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2 hours ago, KilljoyCutter said:

When did the nerf being discussed actually take place? 

 

25 July 2018, Update 0.7.7

French battleship Alsace

  • Main battery loading time was increased from 30 to 32 sec.
  • The sigma parameter was decreased from 1.7 to 1.6.
  • This ship has a fairly high average damage rate and average win rate, hence the overall influence of this ship on the battle results in general. At the same time, in terms of other parameters, Alsace finds herself at the same level with Tier IX battleships. The changes we made will bring the influence this ship has on the results of a battle to an average value.

 

And as you can see in my first post in this thread, Alsace is STILL doing the best out of all the Tier IX tech tree Battleships.  Izumo has received lots of buffs, and so did FDG.  Iowa got some tweaks even before the Alsace nerf.  Yet these 3 BBs are markedly worse in performance than Alsace, despite "only" having 380mm guns in Tier IX.

Sovetsky Soyuz and "Russian Bias" that people claim?  Soyuz can't even come close to Nerfed Alsace performance.

Lion?  She comes very close in damage dealing, but you full well know that's mostly HE + Fire Damage Farming.  Meanwhile Alsace does her work with AP.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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18 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

25 July 2018, Update 0.7.7

French battleship Alsace

  • Main battery loading time was increased from 30 to 32 sec.
  • The sigma parameter was decreased from 1.7 to 1.6.
  • This ship has a fairly high average damage rate and average win rate, hence the overall influence of this ship on the battle results in general. At the same time, in terms of other parameters, Alsace finds herself at the same level with Tier IX battleships. The changes we made will bring the influence this ship has on the results of a battle to an average value.

 

And as you can see in my first post in this thread, Alsace is STILL doing the best out of all the Tier IX tech tree Battleships.  Izumo has received lots of buffs, and so did FDG.  Iowa got some tweaks even before the Alsace nerf.  Yet these 3 BBs are markedly worse in performance than Alsace, despite "only" having 380mm guns in Tier IX.

Sovetsky Soyuz and "Russian Bias" that people claim?  Soyuz can't even come close to Nerfed Alsace performance.

Lion?  She comes very close in damage dealing, but you full well know that's mostly HE + Fire Damage Farming.  Meanwhile Alsace does her work with AP.

So that was well before I ever had the ship, I think.  

These posts/threads about a ship being nerfed that turn out to be about something tangential to the ship, or about something that happened YEARS ago without specifying it, so they sound like some mysterious "new" nerf that did didn't actually happen, really just get on my damn nerves. 

 

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Alsace was so much fun I actually spent doubloons for a permacamo.  I haven't played her since the nerf.  Frankly, though, I'd be very surprised if it had much effect. 

IFHE for secondaries on the ship is not the best use of skill points here.  FP and/or AFT first.

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4 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

So that was well before I ever had the ship, I think.  

These posts/threads about a ship being nerfed that turn out to be about something tangential to the ship, or about something that happened YEARS ago without specifying it, so they sound like some mysterious "new" nerf that did didn't actually happen, really just get on my damn nerves. 

 

I still remember before the FR BB Line was releasing, and we were previewing their ships stats.  The community at the time was pretty split in how Alsace was going to turn out.  People justifiably thought "380mm guns in Tier IX?  That's not good."  Because all we had to go by was our experience with the German 380s.  Some however thought that having 12 guns offsets the gun size issue (exactly how Lyon gets around her weak guns in Tier VII, she just packs an unholy amount of them to fix her problems).

 

But when the FR BB Line fully released, people saw that the FR 380mm AP was potent a.f., rivalling even Amagi 410mm and North Carolina 406mm AP penetration, combined with having 12 guns and being very fast, she became a hot item.  Too hot an item, and WG reigned her in.  I think in comparison to her tech tree peers, she stands very well still and is in a good spot.  You go across the servers and check Tier IX Tech Tree BB performances, Alsace, S.Soyuz, Lion are all doing well for themselves.  But FDG, Iowa, Izumo still aren't, despite numerous fixes for them.

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