Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
SeaRaptor

First Look: German Aircraft Carriers

38 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,148
[-K-]
-Members-, WoWS Community Contributors
2,661 posts
12,370 battles

Bad news: Since I didn't stream as much last week, I don't have a lot of Quick Cuts. Good news: Since I didn't stream as much last week, I was able to devote more time to actually crafting videos. Let's take a spin through the German CVs, shall we? 

First up: Tier IV's Rhein.

 

Moving on up the line, a First Look at Tier VI's Weser - a converted Admiral Hipper-class cruiser.

 

 

Edited by SeaRaptor00
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,148
[-K-]
-Members-, WoWS Community Contributors
2,661 posts
12,370 battles

Next, we take our First Look at Tier VIII German aircraft carrier August von Parseval.  I can't read or say the name of this ship without thinking of "Ready Player One".

 

Lastly, at the top of the line we find Tier X German carrier Manfred von Richtofen. A ship with a name of this pedigree should be a fearsome force. Let's see what we can infer from glancing over the stats in port.

 

 

Edited by SeaRaptor00
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
134
[CAP]
Members
338 posts
15,078 battles

It seems like the German CVs are going to be the least effective against DDs with low HP AP rocket planes, torp planes with even slower torps, and AP dive bombs.  

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
340
[TF16B]
Modder
647 posts
798 battles
2 minutes ago, Jitta77 said:

It seems like the German CVs are going to be the least effective against DDs with low HP AP rocket planes, torp planes with even slower torps, and AP dive bombs.  

Pretty much sums up the line, not much changes even at tier X. Hopefully they’ll get tweaked before release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
783
[WOLFC]
Members
1,612 posts
9,445 battles
1 hour ago, Jitta77 said:

It seems like the German CVs are going to be the least effective against DDs with low HP AP rocket planes, torp planes with even slower torps, and AP dive bombs.  

And people say WG doesn’t listen to feedback...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,480
[WOLF8]
Members
7,342 posts
6,236 battles

In exchange, they better get some crazy Secondaries, like Graf Zeppelin has. I wonder why WG isn't giving them such thing, because I think they kinda need it, TBH. Otherwise, they would be totally defenseless against any fast, small, and nimble ship. Maybe it's just me, but that's what I believe. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
167
[CHBAY]
Beta Testers
550 posts
3,630 battles
18 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

In exchange, they better get some crazy Secondaries, like Graf Zeppelin has. I wonder why WG isn't giving them such thing, because I think they kinda need it, TBH. Otherwise, they would be totally defenseless against any fast, small, and nimble ship. Maybe it's just me, but that's what I believe. 

Agreed, I could see that as being the trend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,096
[S0L0]
Alpha Tester, In AlfaTesters
4,431 posts
6,482 battles
20 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

In exchange, they better get some crazy Secondaries, like Graf Zeppelin has. I wonder why WG isn't giving them such thing, because I think they kinda need it, TBH. Otherwise, they would be totally defenseless against any fast, small, and nimble ship. Maybe it's just me, but that's what I believe. 

 

3 minutes ago, PrinzEugen85 said:

Agreed, I could see that as being the trend.

Because CV secondaries are such an important part of their overall usefulness?    Unless they're  the last two ships in a game.....   trading out the utility to be effective throughout a game against possibly the  most influential ship type in the game seems like such a genius move..     I fear German CVs are going to be  one trick meme machines..  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
340
[TF16B]
Modder
647 posts
798 battles
1 hour ago, Blorgh2017 said:

In exchange, they better get some crazy Secondaries, like Graf Zeppelin has. I wonder why WG isn't giving them such thing, because I think they kinda need it, TBH. Otherwise, they would be totally defenseless against any fast, small, and nimble ship. Maybe it's just me, but that's what I believe. 

I believe the crazy secondaries are particular to the GZ. Although I think the M. Richthofen comes close in terms of number of guns it has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Testers
2,249 posts
2,377 battles

CV secondary memes aside, German CVs will need something to stand out from other CVs.... Else what's the point? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
167
[CHBAY]
Beta Testers
550 posts
3,630 battles
17 minutes ago, Fog_Destroyer_Akizuki said:

CV secondary memes aside, German CVs will need something to stand out from other CVs.... Else what's the point? 

Stukas are their own reward.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,480
[WOLF8]
Members
7,342 posts
6,236 battles
2 hours ago, iRA6E said:

 

Because CV secondaries are such an important part of their overall usefulness?    Unless they're  the last two ships in a game.....   trading out the utility to be effective throughout a game against possibly the  most influential ship type in the game seems like such a genius move..     I fear German CVs are going to be  one trick meme machines..  

Pfft. You make it sound like I'm asking the upcoming German CV's to sacrifice their overall aerial effectiveness, in order to gain the stronk Secondaries. 

Far from it. Just look at them, as they are right now. They already have an Achilles heel from the start, thanks to their choice of the ordinance types. All I'm suggesting is that they should have something else to cover for that Achilles heel... and since GZ already has "that something else," they might as well too.

Only silver lining in this whole thing is that they are still WIP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,148
[-K-]
-Members-, WoWS Community Contributors
2,661 posts
12,370 battles
10 minutes ago, Blorgh2017 said:

Only silver lining in this whole thing is that they are still WIP.

For my part, I agree with this.  I'm encouraged to see Wargaming trying new and different things with CVs - AP rockets and super-slow torps - but I am dubious as to the effectiveness of the latter.  I suspect the AP rockets can be tweaked to be useful, but that torpedo speed is a massive problem I just don't think they're going to be able to make go away.  

Edited by SeaRaptor00
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
649
[NUWES]
Members
3,125 posts
10,659 battles

My only issue with them so far is where are the Stukas? Why is the most iconic dive bomber of all time nowhere to be seen on any of them?

These CVs are operating every plane that the Kriegsmarine never planned on using on their CVs but there is not a Ju-87 in sight on any of them. The one plane that all the designs were expected to operate. Wesser in particular should have them. They are perfectly fine on T6. They might be a bit long-in-the-tooth at T8 and they have no business on the T10 CV, but why are they not on the T6 CV at least? 

https://ludwigheinrichdyck.wordpress.com/2016/02/26/stuka-pilot-sinks-battleship/

Edited by Tzarevitch
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,902
[NH]
Members
1,760 posts

Why is there no data on the AP pen of rockets and bombs? The same thing is on the AP bombers or IJN and the Enterprise. The AP bombs penetration power is just a big mystery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,148
[-K-]
-Members-, WoWS Community Contributors
2,661 posts
12,370 battles
11 minutes ago, Ban_CV_Complainers said:

Why is there no data on the AP pen of rockets and bombs? The same thing is on the AP bombers or IJN and the Enterprise. The AP bombs penetration power is just a big mystery.

Several of us (CCs) have inquired about these values, and we have been told WG is not ready to release that data yet since it is all going to shift and change during testing.  They've become a lot more sensitive to releasing too much information too quickly, as there are some people in the community that use "work in progress" testing data as a way to rile people up and scream about the end of civilization.  

Edited by SeaRaptor00

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
298
[PHD]
Members
1,505 posts
6,404 battles
6 hours ago, Jitta77 said:

It seems like the German CVs are going to be the least effective against DDs with low HP AP rocket planes, torp planes with even slower torps, and AP dive bombs.  

That may be a test to see if WG can un nerf the CV vs DD equation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,480
[WOLF8]
Members
7,342 posts
6,236 battles
36 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

My only issue with them so far is where are the Stukas? Why is the most iconic dive bomber of all time nowhere to be seen on any of them?

These CVs are operating every plane that the Kriegsmarine never planned on using on their CVs but there is not a Ju-87 in sight on any of them. The one plane that all the designs were expected to operate. Wesser in particular should have them. They are perfectly fine on T6. They might be a bit long-in-the-tooth at T8 and they have no business on the T10 CV, but why are they not on the T6 CV at least? 

https://ludwigheinrichdyck.wordpress.com/2016/02/26/stuka-pilot-sinks-battleship/

I wish I can give you two upvotes... lol. :Smile_teethhappy:

I guess the No-Fun Kommisar from the HQ said "no Stukas" or something... lel. (/s) :Smile_trollface:

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some kind of a phantasy navalized version of ME-262, or some other napkin drawing planes, before we see actual Stukas in the game... lululul. (/s /s /s) :Smile_trollface::cap_haloween:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
182
[90THB]
Members
431 posts
10,801 battles
53 minutes ago, Tzarevitch said:

My only issue with them so far is where are the Stukas? Why is the most iconic dive bomber of all time nowhere to be seen on any of them?

These CVs are operating every plane that the Kriegsmarine never planned on using on their CVs but there is not a Ju-87 in sight on any of them. The one plane that all the designs were expected to operate. Wesser in particular should have them. They are perfectly fine on T6. They might be a bit long-in-the-tooth at T8 and they have no business on the T10 CV, but why are they not on the T6 CV at least? 

https://ludwigheinrichdyck.wordpress.com/2016/02/26/stuka-pilot-sinks-battleship/

As a Military Historian, it is my contention (based on Bios such as Rudel. on the Russian Front, and his 1,000 Tank kills....) that if the German CV's had existed (and been released)

They would have been the most effective CV's in the world, bar the late war american ones...

 

1- The Stuka would have been devastating, based on the Mediterranean (malta) campaign.... and how effective they were... Possibly the most effective anti ship platform teh world would have seen to that date...

 

2- FW-190's or Better would have created brutally effective CAP, and Air Superiority...

They would have killed everything else but SuperMarine Spitfires....  the existing RN Cv's would have been shredded by KM CV's and their 60-80 Plane complements)....

 

3- Who cares about Torps (even if the KM had great ones once they abandoned their magnetic issues...) 

 

Instead we get these awful ship abortions , completely ahistorical garbage, when in RL , they would have been devastating in CB TG;s... (Carrier-CV BattleGroups)

regards

JMG

 

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,225 posts
5,930 battles

I'm really not sold on them. Killing DDs is one of the most important things a CV can do and these ships look utterly terrible at it. Those AP bombers/rockets better be really brutal or these are going to be DOA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
810
[NWNG]
Members
3,072 posts
4,925 battles

I (1915) would make a good tier 4. Jade could have made a good tier 8. Even though construction/conversion of those ships were never completed.

I hope those two randomly chosen names, are based on those two planned carriers, rather than wargaming's fabrication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11,943
[ARGSY]
Members
19,984 posts
14,272 battles
2 hours ago, SerahKhan said:

They would have been the most effective CV's in the world, bar the late war american ones...

You won't get an effective naval air arm without a strong basis of naval aviation. The British, the Americans and the Japanese were streets ahead on that score, with the British having the firsts in everything except as-built CV (they did have the first flat-top of any kind in service), and I would contend that it's not as simple as taking your best Luftwaffe pilots and sending them to sea.

Germany turned out not to have resources even for one carrier to get to sea, and even if it did, that would have been an extremely high value target.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,148
[-K-]
-Members-, WoWS Community Contributors
2,661 posts
12,370 battles
2 hours ago, Tekina_ said:

I'm really not sold on them. Killing DDs is one of the most important things a CV can do and these ships look utterly terrible at it. 

I both agree and disagree.  Some CVs really struggle at killing DDs (think T4/T6)... BUT, they are able to SPOT DDs.  That's more important: having a CV willing to spend his time and energy just lighting up a destroyer for the team to shoot at.  Of course, then you have to have a team willing (and able) to land those rounds, but the point stands.  Very commonly the team does more damage with shells than the CV does with rockets, but the planes are keeping the destroyer spotted, and that's huge.  

With all that said, these carriers look right now to be piss-poor at punishing destroyers.  That should be welcome news to folks who - like me - have been concerned about that interaction for a while now.  The trick is that in exchange for that handicap, they need to be utter hell on cruisers and battleships.  At this moment, they don't appear to have teeth enough to carry through on that exchange.  We'll see what the data shows in testing, but my money is on WG making some significant changes to these ships in the coming weeks.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,885
[SYN]
Members
15,858 posts
12,803 battles

The torps are slow, because they have no propulsion and rely completely on kinetic energy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,902
[NH]
Members
1,760 posts
4 hours ago, SeaRaptor00 said:

Several of us (CCs) have inquired about these values, and we have been told WG is not ready to release that data yet since it is all going to shift and change during testing.  They've become a lot more sensitive to releasing too much information too quickly, as there are some people in the community that use "work in progress" testing data as a way to rile people up and scream about the end of civilization.  

Well I mean not just the unreleased ships. If you look at any other CVswith AP bombs there is nothing. Its just AP bomb so its hard to make decisions on what to bomb unless you tried it already. Knowing how much deck and citadel roof armor your bombs can pen goes a long way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×