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Suraknar

Maps are too small for unlimited Planes, so how about?

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I really think that the "revamped" CV System is killing this game.

I still think that there are simply too many planes with 2 CV's in a game and it simply does not match the pace and scope of the Naval Battles aspect of the Game  or the size of the maps in my opinion. It is simply so annoying to be attacked over and over and over and over again while you slowly sail to find the enemy. And a single ship cannot really do anyuthing against that even.

On the other hand I understand why it was revamped, at least I can understand the Develloper's intent with it. I also do nto think thatthe Devs want to go back to Limited Squadrons. (albeit it would be an improvement)

So why not a middle of the road solution?

Why not diminishing returns depending on how many planes get destroyed at each Sortie? That way it take more and more time to launch another squadron of planes as the battle progresses and the numebr of ships diminishes due to losses. It will also make CV play a bit more tactical and even Strategic as one will have to plan a bit what taregts to atatck and when, especially in the openings tages and maybe even try to coordinate with the main force.

Instead of throwing wave after wave anywhere without really caring.

Thoughts?
 

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they dotn have unlimited plane so stop being ignorant and maybe pla yCV and you will see its not that easy to be good in them ...

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94a7bc62c104373a37bf7340e20ded33.png

prepare the popcorn.

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3 minutes ago, Suraknar said:

I really think that the "revamped" CV System is killing this game.

I still think that there are simply too many planes with 2 CV's in a game and it simply does not match the pace and scope of the Naval Battles aspect of the Game  or the size of the maps in my opinion. It is simply so annoying to be attacked over and over and over and over again while you slowly sail to find the enemy. And a single ship cannot really do anyuthing against that even.

On the other hand I understand why it was revamped, at least I can understand the Develloper's intent with it. I also do nto think thatthe Devs want to go back to Limited Squadrons. (albeit it would be an improvement)

So why not a middle of the road solution?

Why not diminishing returns depending on how many planes get destroyed at each Sortie? That way it take more and more time to launch another squadron of planes as the battle progresses and the numebr of ships diminishes due to losses. It will also make CV play a bit more tactical and even Strategic as one will have to plan a bit what taregts to atatck and when, especially in the openings tages and maybe even try to coordinate with the main force.

Instead of throwing wave after wave anywhere without really caring.

Thoughts?
 

xzcvhhq.gif

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1 minute ago, dad003 said:

they dotn have unlimited plane so stop being ignorant and maybe pla yCV and you will see its not that easy to be good in them ...

i am super unicum cv hardcore main and it is pretty easy to be brutally honest as this was wargamings intentions to make them easier and more appealing to the playerbase, maybe you shouldnt go throwing words around like ignorant.

it feels like they are unlimited as there are so many planes in each attack style and as your AA mounts deplete it just gets worse.

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6 minutes ago, Suraknar said:

I really think that the "revamped" CV System is killing this game.

I still think that there are simply too many planes with 2 CV's in a game and it simply does not match the pace and scope of the Naval Battles aspect of the Game  or the size of the maps in my opinion. It is simply so annoying to be attacked over and over and over and over again while you slowly sail to find the enemy. And a single ship cannot really do anyuthing against that even.

On the other hand I understand why it was revamped, at least I can understand the Develloper's intent with it. I also do nto think thatthe Devs want to go back to Limited Squadrons. (albeit it would be an improvement)

So why not a middle of the road solution?

Why not diminishing returns depending on how many planes get destroyed at each Sortie? That way it take more and more time to launch another squadron of planes as the battle progresses and the numebr of ships diminishes due to losses. It will also make CV play a bit more tactical and even Strategic as one will have to plan a bit what taregts to atatck and when, especially in the openings tages and maybe even try to coordinate with the main force.

Instead of throwing wave after wave anywhere without really caring.

Thoughts?
 

Personally it feels like a bit of a pain in the [edited]to play CV's also you have heavy amounts of spelling errors too. Planes are not infinite, they do have a heavy price to pay if you lost all of your squadrons, you can ask any Kaga player who has lost of their planes, yes Kaga has really bad planes for her tier, but that's because she is supposed to have large numbers of planes go out to assault an enemy ship and pray it works out. The only real way any CV player can even be really OP is if they chase A Sims, Sims B, Monaghan A hull, Japanese Battleships, Arizona, West Virginia 1941, Mutsu, Tirpitz, Roma, or in general any Italian Battleship because AA is near non-existent, this list can go on, but I spare you them, but the only real ships that should feel threatened by A CV is the ships mentioned. While although yes new maps would be appreciated, hell even throw in Carrier battles just for any pacific war fanatic, but overall You just need to stay with a group or your division with someone who is you AA Bulwark like Indianapolis, New Orleans, Atlanta, Georgia, the up coming California, etc.

 

This should be something you should know by now, right?

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They already experience diminishing returns based on plane losses. I know, it’s crazy, right? Wargaming added this feature before you even thought to ask about it. 

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1 hour ago, Suraknar said:

Why not diminishing returns depending on how many planes get destroyed at each Sortie? That way it take more and more time to launch another squadron of planes as the battle progresses and the numebr of ships diminishes due to losses. It will also make CV play a bit more tactical and even Strategic as one will have to plan a bit what taregts to atatck and when, especially in the openings tages and maybe even try to coordinate with the main force.
 

This is pretty much exactly the way it works now. Done!

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This thread will go places.

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The CV rework of the CV rework which changed the original RTS CV play style is now complete. It is not going to be changed or updated unless the new German line does something different. I don't play carriers but I understand they're here to stay so we have to deal with them as part of the game. 

Now, here's a cat in a ceiling because honestly I couldn't put forth any more effort and I like this meme......

Ceiling cat - Cat Meme Of The Decade - lol | cat memes | funny ...

Edited by Jolly_Rodgered
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2 hours ago, Suraknar said:

I really think that the "revamped" CV System is killing this game.

I still think that there are simply too many planes with 2 CV's in a game and it simply does not match the pace and scope of the Naval Battles aspect of the Game  or the size of the maps in my opinion. It is simply so annoying to be attacked over and over and over and over again while you slowly sail to find the enemy. And a single ship cannot really do anyuthing against that even.

On the other hand I understand why it was revamped, at least I can understand the Develloper's intent with it. I also do nto think thatthe Devs want to go back to Limited Squadrons. (albeit it would be an improvement)

So why not a middle of the road solution?

Why not diminishing returns depending on how many planes get destroyed at each Sortie? That way it take more and more time to launch another squadron of planes as the battle progresses and the numebr of ships diminishes due to losses. It will also make CV play a bit more tactical and even Strategic as one will have to plan a bit what taregts to atatck and when, especially in the openings tages and maybe even try to coordinate with the main force.

Instead of throwing wave after wave anywhere without really caring.

Thoughts?
 

"Thoughts".
1.  I care about every one of the virtual pilots that gets shot down.  Yes, it is a game.  I know that.  Point is that I don't want to waste even the virtual lives or sacrifice them without purpose.
2.  Currently, if a CV loses enough planes, then the planes that remain either won't be able to get through the AA to complete a strike, or they'll be reduced in effectiveness by only being able to deliver a small portion of a normal delivery of ordnance.
3.  Have you played both RTS and current "re-worked" CV's?  Just curious.
4.  If we go back to limited squadrons, then I want an RTS interface and I want my Zuiho and all the other odd-tiered CV's returned to the game and I want to be able to use all my squadrons simultaneously while also commanding the steering of the ship.
5.  If one squadron at a time is too much for some people now, then imagine what the lamentations would be when every CV player can use three or more squadrons simultaneously to attack one ship.  The only thing slowing down RTS CV/Planes performance was the need to re-arm the planes with ordnance (which included the limited supply of Fighter gun ammunition).  Logistics and timing and map position mattered then, and still matters now.
6.  Fighters would be able to loiter over friendly ships or portions of the map to provide cover and to spot targets.
7.  CV's aren't the problem.  The lack of teamwork during game play and the slow pace of some people to adapt to the game environment is the real drag on team and individual player performances, in my opinion.

Quoting myself, from another discussion thread.
Posted 12 hours ago

"Only those who had CV's before the re-work were in a position to have their odd-tiered CV's *taken* from their ports.

CV's were introduced by WG/WOWs to much fanfare.  Eventually, people played them.  Eventually, some of those who played them "got gud".  
They played so well that some people began to express dissatisfaction about CV's players actually doing "their job" competently.

Such dissatisfaction was vented on the forums in a variety of ways.

Eventually, some people proved they were better at forum posting than ... <well, you can fill in the blank, eh?>

So, the "CV Re-Work" became a thing.  It happened.
CV Players had their odd-tiered ships, such as my Zuiho, yanked from their port.
I played a lot of games with that ship and created many fond memories.
I still miss my Zuiho.

No other ship type was taken from the game. 
No battleships, no cruisers and no destroyers of any tier were taken away as part of a BB or CL/CA or DD "re-work".

So, the price we CV players paid for being competent at playing a game was to have our ships taken because some people complained about us getting "gud".

And people wonder why those of us who are pro-CV get annoyed by those who whine and complain and post rants and behave in a manner that advocates the exclusion of CV players, eh?"

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/218121-is-wargaming-censoring-cv-haters/?page=5

 

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7 hours ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

i am super unicum cv hardcore main and it is pretty easy to be brutally honest as this was wargamings intentions to make them easier and more appealing to the playerbase, maybe you shouldnt go throwing words around like ignorant.

it feels like they are unlimited as there are so many planes in each attack style and as your AA mounts deplete it just gets worse.

The amount of lies and misinformation you just construed under the guise of a unicum is truly astounding.

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Well Thanks for all the replies, including the Toxic ones...

As can be observed by my post count, I do not dwell the forums, I prefer playing the game than epeen jousting here trying to prove something to myself, but I am not perfect like everyone else either. So I drop in to post often following frustration in the game.

And Yesterday night game after game I was very frustrated playing a low tier BB with CV's and constant plane harassement.

So that was the context of my emotions when I made that post :)

I do not play CV's regiularly but I do have CVs in my ship list just o test things out etc, theyare not difficult to play, but I prefer shooting cannons. And today I thought maybe I should probably have playd a couple of matches on my CV before I came here to post though, this is very true. And this is what I did today before posting this reply.

So here I am with 6/6, 6/6, 6/6 of the three types of planes on my Langley tier IV carrier and I launch the rocket one, I figure might as well scout and go after any DD I spot as they will try to rush the capture zone. So I see one shoot it then on the second pass I shoot a Cruiser not far from there too, and then I find myself in the midst of AA from 3 other ships and my Squadron is Decimated, press F return to carrier.

I now have 5/6 Rocket, 6.6 Torp 6/6 Bombs.

I decide to Launch tops Squadron and head over to look for BB's, best targets for torps as theya re are slow to turn etc, may have more AA but hey I could at least land a hit or two I manage to hit the BB twice, before my Squadron gets decimated. F back to Carrier. Now I am at 3/3 Torp Ships, and in the mean time my Rocket Ships are back to 6/6. Launch another Torp run.

Harassing the same BB, it got sunk and then morved to the next managed to score one torp hit.

F back to Carrier, now I have 6/6, 1/6, 6/6, Lets take some Rockets and go after any remaining DD's or Cruisers. Off we go, hit some some DD no kill thought, went afetr a cruiser but got downed. F back to the CArrier, DD and Cruiser got sunk by my team. Now at 3/6, 3/6, 6/6 got Bomb Planes to go after the Remaining Bb approaching, Got a hit, and a miss, squadron decimated. F back to carrier my Trop Squadrons are Back to 6/6

Got Torp planes and continued to go after that BB 1 hit, then another Reload again 2 hits, BB sunk, Reload Going after enemy remainong CV now...

But by the time I am there my team dispatched the remaining CV's..

My Planes onboard 

6/6, 6/6. 6/6

How is that not unlimited?

It seems to mee that people here are more ager to bash others than actually think about what is being suggested.

Well, guess again please.


PS: And btw this is not the first time that I have made this suggestion. I beleive last year I had expressed the same. If some diminishing returns have been implemented, it does not show. By the time a Player expends one type of Squadron the other type is fully repaired. Therefore a constant stream of planes can be launched from start of the game to end of the game.

Edited by Suraknar
typos & PS
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31 minutes ago, Suraknar said:

Well Thanks for all the replies, including the Toxic ones...

As can be observed by my post count, I do not dwell the forums, I prefer playing the game than epeen jousting here trying to prove something to myself, but I am not perfect like everyone else either. So I drop in to post often following frustration in the game.

And Yesterday night game after game I was very frustrated playing a low tier BB with CV's and constant plane harassement.

So that was the context of my emotions when I made that post :)

I do not play CV's regiularly but I do have CVs in my ship list just o test things out etc, theyare not difficult to play, but I prefer shooting cannons. And today I thought maybe I should probably have playd a couple of matches on my CV before I came here to post though, this is very true. And this is what I did today before posting this reply.

So here I am with 6/6, 6/6, 6/6 of the three types of planes on my Langley tier IV carrier and I launch the rocket one, I figure might as well scout and go after any DD I spot as they will try to rush the capture zone. So I see one shoot it then on the second pass I shoot a Cruiser not far from there too, and then I find myself in the midst of AA from 3 other ships and my Squadron is Decimated, press F return to carrier.

I now have 5/6 Rocket, 6.6 Torp 6/6 Bombs.

I decide to Launch tops Squadron and head over to look for BB's, best targets for torps as theya re are slow to turn etc, may have more AA but hey I could at least land a hit or two I manage to hit the BB twice, before my Squadron gets decimated. F back to Carrier. Now I am at 3/3 Torp Ships, and in the mean time my Rocket Ships are back to 6/6. Launch another Torp run.

Harassing the same BB, it got sunk and then morved to the next managed to score one torp hit.

F back to Carrier, now I have 6/6, 1/6, 6/6, Lets take some Rockets and go after any remaining DD's or Cruisers. Off we go, hit some some DD no kill thought, went afetr a cruiser but got downed. F back to the CArrier, DD and Cruiser got sunk by my team. Now at 3/6, 3/6, 6/6 got Bomb Planes to go after the Remaining Bb approaching, Got a hit, and a miss, squadron decimated. F back to carrier my Trop Squadrons are Back to 6/6

Got Torp planes and continued to go after that BB 1 hit, then another Reload again 2 hits, BB sunk, Reload Going after enemy remainong CV now...

But by the time I am there my team dispatched the remaining CV's..

My Planes onboard 

6/6, 6/6. 6/6

How is that not unlimited?

It seems to mee that people here are more ager to bash others than actually think about what is being suggested.

Well, guess again please.


PS: And btw this is not the first time that I have made this suggestion. I beleive last year I had expressed the same. If some diminishing returns have been implemented, it does not show. By the time a Player expends one type of Squadron the other type is fully repaired. Therefore a constant stream of planes can be launched from start of the game to end of the game.

Gets called out for not knowing anything about CV plane mechanics so instead of owning up too it gets butthurt and calls people that prove him wrong toxic :Smile_popcorn: Hey genius why don't you play tier 6 and up CVs to see how UNLIMITED they are :Smile_teethhappy: 

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2 minutes ago, LastRemnant said:

Gets called out for not knowing anything about CV plane mechanics so instead of owning up too it gets butthurt and calls people that prove him wrong toxic :Smile_popcorn: Hey genius why don't you play tier 6 and up CVs to see how UNLIMITED they are :Smile_teethhappy: 

WG has stated CV have unlimited planes. The fact that you may have to wait for the respawning of planes does not change the fact planes, like shells & torpedoes, are only limited by time. It appears you are incorrect.

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Some highly intelligent comments in this thread...

 

 

 

Edited by Kuckoo

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13 hours ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

94a7bc62c104373a37bf7340e20ded33.png

 

Yo, challenge accepted... the thing is... at the moment I don't see any useful munition in this thread. 

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The last time AA was actually able to prevent CVs from simply spamming viable attack wings all the time and demanded reserve management on part of the CV the CV playerbase basically died.
Which ofc was deemed unacceptable by WG, hence why they completely murdered AA only a single patch later.

So yeah, that won't happen.

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26 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

WG has stated CV have unlimited planes. The fact that you may have to wait for the respawning of planes does not change the fact planes, like shells & torpedoes, are only limited by time. It appears you are incorrect.

That's like saying that the world has unlimited oil reserves because new oil is constantly being produced by ongoing biological and geological possesses. However, just as oil can become economically depleted when it costs more to obtain it than it's worth, so too can the WOWS CV become effectively deplaned when it can't send out a large enough attack group to get through its target's AA to drop ordnance on it.

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11 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:
"Thoughts".
1.  I care about every one of the virtual pilots that gets shot down.  Yes, it is a game.  I know that.  Point is that I don't want to waste even the virtual lives or sacrifice them without purpose.
2.  Currently, if a CV loses enough planes, then the planes that remain either won't be able to get through the AA to complete a strike, or they'll be reduced in effectiveness by only being able to deliver a small portion of a normal delivery of ordnance.
3.  Have you played both RTS and current "re-worked" CV's?  Just curious.
4.  If we go back to limited squadrons, then I want an RTS interface and I want my Zuiho and all the other odd-tiered CV's returned to the game and I want to be able to use all my squadrons simultaneously while also commanding the steering of the ship.
5.  If one squadron at a time is too much for some people now, then imagine what the lamentations would be when every CV player can use three or more squadrons simultaneously to attack one ship.  The only thing slowing down RTS CV/Planes performance was the need to re-arm the planes with ordnance (which included the limited supply of Fighter gun ammunition).  Logistics and timing and map position mattered then, and still matters now.
6.  Fighters would be able to loiter over friendly ships or portions of the map to provide cover and to spot targets.
7.  CV's aren't the problem.  The lack of teamwork during game play and the slow pace of some people to adapt to the game environment is the real drag on team and individual player performances, in my opinion.

Quoting myself, from another discussion thread.
Posted 12 hours ago

"Only those who had CV's before the re-work were in a position to have their odd-tiered CV's *taken* from their ports.

CV's were introduced by WG/WOWs to much fanfare.  Eventually, people played them.  Eventually, some of those who played them "got gud".  
They played so well that some people began to express dissatisfaction about CV's players actually doing "their job" competently.

Such dissatisfaction was vented on the forums in a variety of ways.

Eventually, some people proved they were better at forum posting than ... <well, you can fill in the blank, eh?>

So, the "CV Re-Work" became a thing.  It happened.
CV Players had their odd-tiered ships, such as my Zuiho, yanked from their port.
I played a lot of games with that ship and created many fond memories.
I still miss my Zuiho.

No other ship type was taken from the game. 
No battleships, no cruisers and no destroyers of any tier were taken away as part of a BB or CL/CA or DD "re-work".

So, the price we CV players paid for being competent at playing a game was to have our ships taken because some people complained about us getting "gud".

And people wonder why those of us who are pro-CV get annoyed by those who whine and complain and post rants and behave in a manner that advocates the exclusion of CV players, eh?"

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/218121-is-wargaming-censoring-cv-haters/?page=5

 

I still miss my Bogue...... This was in the RTS era of CV's.... I wish she comes back in some way shape or form.

 

 

But what if the Carrier branches split to Put in the former Odd Tiers as support ships? Like Bogue starts at Tier 6, Independence for Tier 8, and Essex for Tier 10, because after the war ended and some time passed, the Essex's were used as Anti-submarine warships, I think it might be a good way to implement them, and they could have ASW Planes that replace Dive bombers or Rockets. Maybe that could work?

 

Idk it was a random thought idea...

Edited by Hellcat11563
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21 minutes ago, Hellcat11563 said:

I still miss my Bogue...... This was in the RTS era of CV's.... I wish she comes back in some way shape or form.

 

 

But what if the Carrier branches split to Put in the former Odd Tiers as support ships? Like Bogue starts at Tier 6, Independence for Tier 8, and Essex for Tier 10, because after the war ended and some time passed, the Essex's were used as Anti-submarine warships, I think it might be a good way to implement them, and they could have ASW Planes that replace Dive bombers or Rockets. Maybe that could work?

 

Idk it was a random thought idea...

You're not alone.  
Other's have mentioned the notion of bringing back the odd-tiered CV's and having them set-up for anti-submarine-warfare.

I remember the Bogue.  :-)

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1 minute ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

You're not alone.  
Other's have mentioned the notion of bringing back the odd-tiered CV's and having them set-up for anti-submarine-warfare.

I remember the Bogue.  :-)

Well it's not a bad a idea, Bogue was originally built for Escort duties so that would make sense, also can you point me to the discussion talking about ths?

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Just now, Hellcat11563 said:

Well it's not a bad a idea, Bogue was originally built for Escort duties so that would make sense, also can you point me to the discussion talking about ths?

Topics involving submarine play-testing and some CV topics.
Sorry.  I didn't bookmark them.  I'd have to do a forum search, just like you would.

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Just now, Wolfswetpaws said:

Topics involving submarine play-testing and some CV topics.
Sorry.  I didn't bookmark them.  I'd have to do a forum search, just like you would.

Its all good

Edited by Hellcat11563
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