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TheSubman

cv's got juiced without any comment

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all in the past week have noticed cvs doing noticeably more damage with rockets and bombs, yet their was no mention of any buff for cvs in any patch notes recently, last night in a gremy, 4 dbs attack, and do 6K damage with bombs....said wth but moved on....2 games later in a tier 4 match, 3 rockets hit me and do 4K damage...cvs have been broken for quite a long time now....but if they are going to get that much damage potential, game will likely become unplayable vs cvs in mid tiers 

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i dont really see difference no buff or nerf as been done on CV ordinance 

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That's odd. It's as if just overnight or just after an update, CVs suddenly started hitting DDs with rockets and HE bombs with stunning regularity.

It could be that the Sith CV players switched off their targeting computers and just said #expletive it!#, then with the power of the Dark Side of the Force, nailed ships as if by magic.

Never underestimate the power of the Force. I find your lack of faith disturbing....( Force chokes a Twinkie and feeds it to Baby Yoda.)

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There are a lot of factors, some of which include the ship you are driving (armor makes a big difference in mitigation), the type of planes and the type of cv attacking you and where the cv is hitting you, just to touch on the most basic ones. You could be just be running into bad rng and coming up against good cv drivers as well. Without specifics there is no way to know more and give anything more than general advice that you have heard many times.

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2 hours ago, Skyspartan said:

i dont really see difference no buff or nerf as been done on CV ordinance 

Wasn’t there a new British Commander with enhanced CV skills or something released recently? That could the culprit.

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The only thing new I recently did was triple citadel and fatally sank a conquerer with Hakuryu AP bombers.

Why it exploded akin to a certain battle station with a giant superlaser.

Do I think it odd? Nope. Okay, maybe my Sith Pusheen pilots I hired did change things. And the ones I got wearing Storm trooper armor are hilariously accurate with operating the guns and AA.

It's hard to get them to fire torpedoes though. Because they want to ride the torpedo 5 at a time to a target.

And getting them back can be troublesome. I lose one in a life boat and suddenly, they are adopted by my opponent.

But I can't complain. I put out an ad asking for good pilots pushing the envelope and I got these guys. And they are Pusheen the envelope.

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I doubt even WF would pull a secret buff (juice as you term it).

WF farce reworked CVs working as intended, especially at T4, OP, almost invulnerable (if played right) & killer of anything they want to kill (esp if there's 2 of them & they are played right).

You know, just as Broken as WF intended them to be (to prove they are now a more popular class of ship). 

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2 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Wasn’t there a new British Commander with enhanced CV skills or something released recently? That could the culprit.

 

That commander doesn't make RN CV strike even more deadly than they already are

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CV's are taking a perfectly great game and making it crap. They're far to powerful with no counterplay possible since AA and DFAA have been nerfed into oblivion, the addition of Rocket planes to destroy DD play, the 8.0 rework that makes CV's so easy a toddler can be a unicum top damaging player every game, the elimination of Strafing, the elimination of being able to target specific planes like you can with secondaries and most of all allowing CV's to print new planes as needed so even if your AA has a miracle moment and shoots planes down it has no effect on the ship that can always do damage to you but is immune to damage from other ships for 99% of the game.

Besides making DDs to frustrating to play and to weak to boldly move and lead the fleet/capping it has caused the game to be much slower, camping oriented and prone to lemming trains. Ships that used to be very competent at AA like Fletcher, Kidd and others are now as weak as a Kamikaze as far as AA usefulness. Any planes you shoot down are ones that have already dropped their payload on you and are on the way out. 

The 8.0 rework also turned tiers III and IV (sometimes V) into a toxic soup of guaranteed 4 carrier games with short teams to boot. The last week every game I played at tier 4 had 4 CVs and short teams missing at least 3 or 4 ships per side making the CVs even more toxic (these games were all in prime time with over 10k players on the server not in the middle of the night or something), the matches no fun and grinding new lines frustrating. I can't imagine what new players think of the game when they're harassed by double CVs on a short team for the first few hundred games they play. Losing new players as well as the older ones that remember just how fun this game could be before WG began ignoring all CC feedback and breaking all their own rules (Kutuzov removed from game because of the never again god awful toxic threat of a HE throwing ship with smoke....so they make the Smolensk that not only has everything Kutuzov had but add torps and 1000x more dps with 4 guns a mount and 3 second reload....wasn't an entire British line screwed and not given HE because of the awful effect it would have on the game??). WG for years "This game will NEVER have Subs".....now Subs being introduced and hey...guess which type of ship will gain yet more responsibilities/duties and get screwed again....the DD. It seems every change WG has made in some way directly or indirectly screws DDs. Definitely the hardest class to play with the most direct counters to it....yet the main work you do for the team is unrewarded in XP.....(spotting ships and allowing damage to them, spotting  torpedoes,  capping, knife fighting other DDs, defending the caps and now add to it being the defender of the team from Subs...which incidentally can perma spot DDs with little you can do about it).

I often wonder if the Devs play the game at all? If they do they definitely are NOT DD players.

Great game now in a death spiral of poor testing and balancing. I wonder how many are like me. Not quitting because of the time and money investment....but no longer spending a dime as well as cutting games per week from 100 to 10 or 15.  

Edited by CyberKnife
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Nothing has changed.

You may have simply run into a competent CV player for once. Or said CV player just got lucky.

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11 minutes ago, thebigblue said:

It's been in a death spiral for 4 years!!! Radar, hydro, dwt, fire spam, torp spam, smoke spam, CV spam will all kill this game!! Don't let the thousands of NA players on the server every day fool you!! My confirmation bias, blind hatered, self obsessive ignorance know better!!

Hey that's my line lol.

In all seriousness, I find CVs to be feared/respected only if I go off alone.  That may sound like a dumb idea to go off by yourself, but it is a risk/reward scenario.   Watching a wall of deep water torpedoes heading towards an enemy cruiser, BB, and CV who think they are safe is worth it.  

CVs are here to stay.  Players can, as always, choose if this is "over the line."

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10 hours ago, TheSubman said:

all in the past week have noticed cvs doing noticeably more damage with rockets and bombs, yet their was no mention of any buff for cvs in any patch notes recently, last night in a gremy, 4 dbs attack, and do 6K damage with bombs....said wth but moved on....2 games later in a tier 4 match, 3 rockets hit me and do 4K damage...cvs have been broken for quite a long time now....but if they are going to get that much damage potential, game will likely become unplayable vs cvs in mid tiers 

I have noticed the same thing. CVs have certainly been buffed.

I can see why. CV players want to be more powerful. Their damage had been nerfed significantly, because they were creating unrest with the rest of the player base.

Here is the thing. CVs were a bit boring, with heavily nerfed damage output. Other players were scoring citadels, and CVs were basically denied that pleasure, the power rush of doing max damage. So, that was indeed boring for them. The request for more damage is not crazy.

At the same time, CV's do not have to flank players, they don't have to position themselves in order to get citadels. They have infinite range, and they can and do park behind islands on the far side of the map, while they strike for citadel damage. Once again, as always, they take no risk, to deal max damage.

Thus, we see the problem that has always plagued this broken design. They are all attack, with no risk. They hit, without being hit back. Their conceptual design breaks fundamental principles of fair play and thus game design. 

In any combat game, a player who can hit everything else, but who cannot be hit back, will break the game. WG know this to be true, so they limit the number of CVs per match.

If WG were serious, if they were governed by integrity as a core value, they would either remove CVs to their own game mode, or else they would have unlimited numbers of CVs per match. What we have now is a compromise designed to cover the truth with a shabby fiction.

I was asked to take part in a survey yesterday, regarding AA effectiveness. It was banal. It was puerile. The entire survey started with the premise that CVs are not broken, that they can be "fixed" with tweaks to AA interaction mechanics. At no point did the survey permit a discussion about what was actually wrong with the class, and why these tweaks never seem to work.

WG staff are in denial. They are deluded, to a profound degree.

They cannot accept their own failure.

CVs in WOWS are failure of game design. Arguably, they do not belong in a gunboat game. It doesn't work historically, there is no precedent for it. CVs ended gunboats, in the real world. Thus, WOWS need to create something that either ends gunboats, or else is a total fiction, bearing no sensible correlation to the actual world. They may as well have floating pumpkins shooting red and blue lasers.

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It's also possible you are seeing players who just did Ranked Sprint (where CVs were few) coming back into Randoms and not being as vigilant in their CV tactics.

 

Alot of factors play into perceived outcomes like this. You'd have to go over the replays and see what the ships hit by the CVs were doing.

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7 minutes ago, SidTheBlade said:

I have noticed the same thing. CVs have certainly been buffed.

I can see why. CV players want to be more powerful.

The supposition that CV players

 

a)  want to be given more

b) are even on here to complain about CV's being bad

 

is....farcical

 

Enough for me to add  to my 5 page anti CV / pro CV polemicist "on ignore they be" list.

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1 hour ago, Anonymous50 said:

The supposition that CV players

 

a)  want to be given more

b) are even on here to complain about CV's being bad

 

is....farcical

 

Enough for me to add  to my 5 page anti CV / pro CV polemicist "on ignore they be" list.

I only have the logical fallacy/reading comprehension/weigh-measure clones on my ignore list. What a relief. I often muse about adding a few more folks I am sure are total nutters but even they have a little wisdom once in a great while.

Edited by thebigblue

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13 hours ago, TheSubman said:

all in the past week have noticed cvs doing noticeably more damage with rockets and bombs, yet their was no mention of any buff for cvs in any patch notes recently, last night in a gremy, 4 dbs attack, and do 6K damage with bombs....said wth but moved on....2 games later in a tier 4 match, 3 rockets hit me and do 4K damage...cvs have been broken for quite a long time now....but if they are going to get that much damage potential, game will likely become unplayable vs cvs in mid tiers 

Oink! Subman... Look, I, Franz von Goltz, Supreme Commander, I am tired by this kind of crypto anti CV posts. Do you really thing WG buffs and nerfs without informing the player base. 99.9% player base will agree with me. Conclusion? Delete your post. Oink! 

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12 hours ago, Antean said:

I doubt even WF would pull a secret buff (juice as you term it).

WF farce reworked CVs working as intended, especially at T4, OP, almost invulnerable (if played right) & killer of anything they want to kill (esp if there's 2 of them & they are played right).

You know, just as Broken as WF intended them to be (to prove they are now a more popular class of ship). 

Yeah they fixed the desynic for the cv planes said everybody else gotta wait a couple more patches, go figure.

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4 hours ago, thebigblue said:

I only have the logical fallacy/reading comprehension/weigh-measure clones on my ignore list. What a relief. I often muse about adding a few more folks I am sure are total nutters but even they have a little wisdom once in a great while.

Just because I add you to my block list doesn't make me smart, or smarter than you regardless of my reasons, and that logic works both ways. :)

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cv's got juiced without any comment

Oh I'm very curious about it...

I'm sure CV juice must be something bitter and salty, but I can't fathom wich color it is...

Also you are not being very specific, do the asian and the european varieties taste the same as the american?

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1 hour ago, Lady_Athena said:

Just because I add you to my block list doesn't make me smart, or smarter than you regardless of my reasons, and that logic works both ways. :)

I agree. That's why my list only has 1-2 primary accts and another 1-2 confirmed alts. It wasn't because we had dissenting opinions. I respect different points of view and think a person can learn a lot from other folks when discussions are held in a respectful manner. I just found him/them very toxic and reading their posts or replies to other people almost ruined the forum experience for me. Now, poof, they are gone and it's all good.

Edited by thebigblue

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6 hours ago, Anonymous50 said:

The supposition that CV players

 

a)  want to be given more

b) are even on here to complain about CV's being bad....

People often project their attitudes onto others.

"Hey, I want more, and would complain if I don't get it, so obviously everyone else is lile that".

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I honestly have not seen this change that you're talking about. I have gotten lucky sometimes, knocking a 1/6 of their health, in which case I'm going back to that DD, but nothing consistently like what you're referencing.

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The only thing discussed recently was the desync and the bomb sight. We could look at the notes of the update and see.

But if I were to guess, the bomb sight. Because I still miss sometimes even if the reticle is right on target. So the desync is likely not fixed yet.

Because in cases where I do hold the sight on a ship with the air brakes, and desync is not a factor, I hit hard.

No, what you are all experiencing is the sobering fact that players figured out how to use the braking feature to hold a bomb sight longer on a ship before releasing to compensate for the desync and also evasive action.

It used to be speed up, tighten reticle and let go as you fly over the spot you want to hit. But ever since I brake, hold drop, it's devastating. More efficient hits less overpens.

CV players also take full advantage of throttle jockey players by using the brakes and doing higher drops to reduce overpen on cruisers they normally overpen.

A high drop has less downward velocity because you release before the apex. A release after the apex has velocity. And the longer you hold the sight over a target mitigates desync and any lag or frame rate drops.

The good news is desync is not fixed the bad news is when it does, braking will still be used and dodging a bomb drop will be based on how fast you turn instead on how fast you go. And if a CV player makes you turn, he already has control of your ship. Because his team knows you are turning wide.

So when you do observe CV play, pay close attention on how many times a CV turns you out to a fatal citadel by a teammate. 

CVs don't always win matches by damage alone. Spotting, forced turns, and the occasional drop that knocks out your engine is the new doctrine.

If a CV hits you regularity in the engine, then flee to the nearest Wooster. Because a BB is looking at you.

Team play starts with CV air superiority from the start of the match.

RTS, as much of a pain it was to players, is actually harder to do because the skills required are the same as an air traffic controller. You are tracking 11 targets on the map at the same time while also tracking the opponent CV assets.

Because only a small percentage of players can do this, and to be honest I could only grasp half of it myself, it's the hardest ship type to play back then except on co-op.

But because there were so few good at it, it is perceived that WG dumbed it down and a brainless chimp can drop you easy.

The correct answer is no. It's all manual RNG based bomb drops and the torps have to be really precise to be effective. Because dodging torps is actually easiest in the rework version.

However, it doesn't hinder much for the CV RTS experts much. Only the initial alpha strike capability of a 3 flight dev strike. They HE and AP bombers still do well because HE is DOT, while initial AP alpha was only a matter of time before it gets better.

It takes months to master a ship class and maybe longer if you never played the ship type in the first place.

So while the rework is far from what WG or players really wanted, it's actually far more dangerous because now players brake on their drops. Instead of 1 citadel, you are very nearly guaranteed 3 even if desync is in effect.

Desync or any perceived lag that drops frame rate below 60 will affect drop performance.

And recently, monitors have gone on sale that with really good resolution and refresh rate makes CV players perform similar to First person shooters. The higher the refresh, the better the drop.

How does a player mitigate this new development? Well, turning is your only option, but now you have to be aware of who is looking at you. Situational awareness.

Next is protection, you want to stay close to good AA if yours sucks.

A competent CV player can and will hit an AA cruiser if that cruiser is alone. Why? Because even though he might lose planes, he is actually trying to maintain a spot while attacking. If you are in an AA cruiser alone and you are being attacked with torpedoes, then you really are in trouble. Because it's not his torpedoes that get you, he is just healing his planes going in so he can hit and run. No, he is keeping you spotted long enough for a battleship.

If a CV attacks at all to an AA cruiser with bombs, it's because he found a clear shot to you by popping over an island. And if sector reinforce is activated, he already knows that its the open side so he will swing back over the island because AA can't touch him there.

Then there is the rule of 4. 4 km, stay inside 4 km of any ship and you see less flak bursts. You only deal with DPM AA damage. But again, if DFAA is activated, he will hit the nonactivated side and just circle for a second hit.

Players that don't shed bombers are very adept at this.

They key component of mitigation is to never leave yourself in that situation.

Now you might be saying: " Steel is blowing smoke."

But you can find out yourself these tactics by executing them in co-op with a CV of your own.

Not only will you understand how the tactics work, but you will also learn the CV player's limitations and capabilities.

To know your enemy is to know thyself.

Knowledge is power.

I play all ship types and I tinker with everything about those ships because I want any ship I sail to not be one dimensional in capabilities.

Practice, learn, and even get a buddy to tag along to role play attacks for simulation.

This is how I learned about my ships and so can any of you.

You don't have to be good at practice, but it does give you insight of the CV or other ship you might face in combat.

Think of it as an exercise and training opportunity.

I am offering Free advice here. So take it or leave it.

It's up to you.

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