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kishan99

Do you think AA should regen or repairable?

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I personally think AA should be able to regen or be able to be repaired.  If planes can regen, so should AA.   Just today, I had a Donskoi game were I shot down 86 planes.  The planes kept on coming but my AA was severely damaged.  I am not quite sure how I was even able to shoot down anything past 50.  I just kept moving around to throw off his aim so AA would eventually destroy his aircraft. 

Problem is that if AA counters planes, and that AA can be perma destroyed but not the planes, which eliminates the counter, then that would seem like a problem.  

Edited by kishan99
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Regenerate is really a misnomer, plane losses are permanent and the CV only has some of their planes on deck. While called regenerating it is really bringing up planes from the hanger. If anything AA doesn't die fast enough as ships on deaths door can still have extremely strong AA if they have been taking damage from AP which needs a direct hit to take out exposed weapons even though that has a blast too.

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This movie clip is a visual representation of why and how a ship's anti-aircraft artillery is depleted when it is fired upon.

Even the reworked CVs' planes can be depleted to the point that your only option is to switch ordinance or to send out partial squadrons. There are some unicums who say that this never happens to them but it happens to most of the normal players I've talked to.

Edited by Snargfargle
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6 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

This movie clip is a visual representation of why and how a ship's anti-aircraft artillery is depleted when it is fired upon.

 

I love how people always point out how much it took to sink her but they always forget that for much of the battle she was unable to respond to the attacking planes, some times called a mission kill.

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9 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

There are some unicums who say that this never happens to them but it happens to most of the normal players I've talked to.

The issue is if you try and only balance around the average player and ignore the unicums, they will find ways to break the ship. Even something like a full aa spec'd halland in clan battles can't even come close to shooting down enough planes to actually matter. I shot down over 70 one game and the cv was still pumping out full squads. I was even right next to our kremlin and our combined aa couldn't stop a torp run or ap bomb strike. A fully aa spec'd ship used to be able to stop and deny strikes with def aa up. Now it would take misplay on the cv's part to not get a strike off. Meanwhile the surface ship can do nothing except hope the cv eats flak or is bad. 

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2 hours ago, eagle_lance said:

The issue is if you try and only balance around the average player and ignore the unicums, they will find ways to break the ship. Even something like a full aa spec'd halland in clan battles can't even come close to shooting down enough planes to actually matter. I shot down over 70 one game and the cv was still pumping out full squads. I was even right next to our kremlin and our combined aa couldn't stop a torp run or ap bomb strike. A fully aa spec'd ship used to be able to stop and deny strikes with def aa up. Now it would take misplay on the cv's part to not get a strike off. Meanwhile the surface ship can do nothing except hope the cv eats flak or is bad. 

That you shot down 70 planes before the CV sank you (did it?) shows that AA was working as expected. The CV was attacking you but not blapping you into oblivion like a BB can oftentimes do with one salvo. While the CV was attacking you it was not hunting DDs, providing fighters to protect and spot, or scouting for the team. There is more to assisting a team versus a CV than just deplaning it or sinking it.

Edited by Snargfargle
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image0.jpg

Sounds about right for CV players

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9 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

I love how people always point out how much it took to sink her but they always forget that for much of the battle she was unable to respond to the attacking planes, some times called a mission kill.

What I like about that movie clip is that it shows that your enemy are people too who feel pain when they are injured and sadness when their friends are killed.

That's one reason why I liked being a medic -- if you were injured and not a threat then I was going to treat you no matter what side you were on. I didn't do this in the Army per se but I did in civilian life.

After a shootout, some cops, I think, would have just as soon that the perpetrator waited their turn or even bled out, especially if they had shot another cop. I sometimes got the "evil eye" from cops who thought that a fellow cop's non-life-threatening injury was more important than a perpetrator's life-threatening one. However, I've also seen good cops do everything that they possibly could not to shoot someone and then immediately administer first aid or CPR after they had to. Cops and perpetrators, friend or foe -- they all are human.

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36 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

This movie clip is a visual representation of why and how a ship's anti-aircraft artillery is depleted when it is fired upon.

 

Darn those carrier planes; just flying through the AA like that.

By the way; when exactly did P-47 Thunderbolts become carrier aircraft?

:Smile_medal: To your above post.

Edited by Estimated_Prophet

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13 minutes ago, eagle_lance said:

The issue is if you try and only balance around the average player and ignore the unicums, they will find ways to break the ship. Even something like a full aa spec'd halland in clan battles can't even come close to shooting down enough planes to actually matter. I shot down over 70 one game and the cv was still pumping out full squads. I was even right next to our kremlin and our combined aa couldn't stop a torp run or ap bomb strike. A fully aa spec'd ship used to be able to stop and deny strikes with def aa up. Now it would take misplay on the cv's part to not get a strike off. Meanwhile the surface ship can do nothing except hope the cv eats flak or is bad. 

You obviously ran into a very good but not unicum player as they focused on you instead of other less AA heavy ships and even then I would bet they were going up with at least one flight missing.

If we balance around the tiny percentage of players that are unicum the ships become mostly useless in less than unicum player's hands.

1 minute ago, dieselhead77 said:

image0.jpg

Sounds about right for CV players

I consider myself an All-rounder but I will type in chat but never more negative than "we blew this".

On "the average CV" attacking BB's and to a certain extent cruisers makes sense. The maneuverability of almost all DD's is such that for most CV players they are wasting their time, taking multiple squadrons to put them down when they could have done more for the team by going after those BB's and cruisers.

Just now, Estimated_Prophet said:

Darn those carrier planes; just flying through the AA like that.

By the way; when exactly did P-47 Thunderbolts become carrier aircraft?

Japanese movie and the majority of their audience just saw a US plane although there is a bit of resemblance between the Hellcat and the Thunderbolt as both used great big radial engines. It is like all the war movies many of us watched on TV while growing up, we knew the tanks with the German crosses on them were actually American tanks but we didn't care. 

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9 hours ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Darn those carrier planes; just flying through the AA like that.

By the way; when exactly did P-47 Thunderbolts become carrier aircraft?

Directors sometimes take a bit of artistic license. Oftentimes this is because they have to use the props that are available, like when an indie Revolutionary War movie shows cap-lock muskets being used.

Quote

F6F Hellcat and F4U Corsair fighters, SB2C Helldiver dive bombers, and TBF Avenger torpedo bombers.

 A F6F Hellcat looks a lot like a P-47.

P-47-rmpg.jpg

00-f4fwildcat-741x388.jpg

Edit: This is a F4F Wildcat.

Republic_P-43_Lancer.jpg?resize=560,290&

Edit: This is a Republic P-43 Lancer

Edited by Snargfargle
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If some carrier planes can repair mid-air, AA guns should be able to repair on deck.

Edited by mofton
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41 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Directors sometimes take a bit of artistic license. Oftentimes this is because they have to use the props that are available, like when an indie Revolutionary War movie shows cap-lock muskets being used.

 A F6F Hellcat looks a lot like a P-47.

00-f4fwildcat-741x388.jpg

Republic_P-43_Lancer.jpg?resize=560,290&

History nerds like many of us are will see the differences but for most people they won't see it as long as the use the Razorback instead of they later bubble canopy.

Showing my nerdness the P47 looks like a prototype. with two guns firing through the prop.

39 minutes ago, mofton said:

If some carrier planes can repair mid-air, AA guns should be able to repair on deck.

That tiny repair is mostly useless and is better thought of as planes driven off rejoining the formation.

 

 

Edited by BrushWolf
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6 minutes ago, mofton said:

If some carrier planes can repair mid-air, AA guns should be able to repair on deck.

It used to be that the whole squad took damage at once, it was spread out over a bunch of planes and the heal had a big impact.  They changed it a while ago so all damage is done to one plane at a time, so the drop fast, one after the next.  Now the heal might save one plane, two tops.

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2 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

the P47 looks like a prototype. with two guns firing through the prop.

That tiny repair is mostly useless and is better thought of as planes driven off rejoining the formation.

Yes, I was trying to find a model that looked like the planes in the movie.

You are right about the repair. It was useful early on but they changed the way planes are damaged and now it really does nothing much at all.

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2 hours ago, kishan99 said:

I personally think AA should be able to regen or be able to be repaired.  If planes can regen, so should AA.   Just today, I had a Donskoi game were I shot down 86 planes.  The planes kept on coming but my AA was severely damaged.  I am not quite sure how I was even able to shoot down anything past 50.  I just kept moving around to throw off his aim so AA would eventually destroy his aircraft. 

Problem is that if AA counters planes, and that AA can be perma destroyed but not the planes, which eliminates the counter, then that would seem like a problem.  

But after 50 planes w/badly damaged AA you were still able to shoot down an additional 36 planes...not too shabby...that's an additional 72% more planes than you were expecting to be able to shoot down.

Theoretically some AA should be repairable (to account for AA that actually wasn't damaged but crew was killed & eventually other crew were able to replace them...or minor damage was repairable) but for game balance purposes if all AA was able to regent back to full health then bottom tiered CVs would be screwed all game & only be relegated to spotting & attacking IJN torp DDs & Musashis.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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I just learned something new. I've traditionally taken PM on my AA ships to help prevent the loss of AA modules. Now I find that it has no effect on them.

Quote

Anti-aircraft mounts cannot be disabled, only destroyed; as such, the Preventative Maintenance commander skill has no effect on them. Only Auxiliary Armaments Modification 1 can help prevent their destruction by making each mount more resilient to incoming damage.

 

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44 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

But after 50 planes w/badly damaged AA you were still able to shoot down an additional 36 planes...not too shabby...that's an additional 72% more planes than you were expecting to be able to shoot down.

that only happened because the Kaga was an absolute potato at aiming which is not common for CVs.  I honestly got lucky with the rng of the bomb drops and some of his torpedo drops were wide spread.   I was left with a little over 1k health when I sank him.  He focused me all game; he didn't even go for any other ship.   Right before I sank him, he launched at full squadron of rocket planes and I was like, "How is this even possible?  86 damn planes and he stills has a fully squadron?"  

 

Edit: I looked on the WG wiki and looks like it can have a 96 aircraft on deck...  what the hell is this? lol

Edited by kishan99

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11 minutes ago, kishan99 said:

Kaga

I was going to ask if it was a Kaga. The Kaga is known for its large plane complement. However, it also has several downsides, like weak rocket attacks and easier-to-down planes.

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No problem with regenerating AA.  If CVs can hide in the back with no counter regenerating planes the entire match, ships should be able to regenerate their only defense against the constant onslaught.

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IMO AA should regen/repair. CVs only get stronger as the battles goes. Ships get destroyed, reducing AA, ships spread around the map, and even the ships that survive usually take dmg which destroys their AA. All while CVs can get to late game with full squads. 

 

Ive had many situations where most my AA is gone and the CV can fly around me without having to worry about anything. This is just dumb.

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8 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Directors sometimes take a bit of artistic license. Oftentimes this is because they have to use the props that are available, like when an indie Revolutionary War movie shows cap-lock muskets being used.

 A F6F Hellcat looks a lot like a P-47.

00-f4fwildcat-741x388.jpg

Republic_P-43_Lancer.jpg?resize=560,290&

giphy.gif

 

So...... the Top aircraft you posted is an F4F Wildcat, the fighter that served as the primary Navy fighter the beginning of WW2, then was relegated to the CVEs and secondary tasks later in the war.

 

The second aircraft you have posted is a P-43 Lancer. It lacked armor, slef-sealing fuel tanks and was considered obsolete in 1941, though they were sent to China as lend-lease.

 

 

8 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Kinda blurry but I think that's a Hellcat.

Untitled.thumb.jpg.e4db41ae4d01aedd0cdb2c2e11d25975.jpg

Grumman-F6F-Hellcat8-1152x648.jpg

 

Yes, that is definitely an F6F Hellcat

 

 

And these are P-47s

 

P-47-rmpg.jpg

P3%20(1).jpg

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19 minutes ago, Xlap said:

IMO AA should regen/repair. CVs only get stronger as the battles goes. Ships get destroyed, reducing AA, ships spread around the map, and even the ships that survive usually take dmg which destroys their AA. All while CVs can get to late game with full squads. 

 

Ive had many situations where most my AA is gone and the CV can fly around me without having to worry about anything. This is just dumb.

I would also have no problem with AA being repaired in some way. Possibly even with diminishing returns or something like that. I just wanted to point out that CVs don't really get stronger later, it's more than the herd defense against them gets weaker as the herd diminishes. It's really semantics but I wanted to point that out. 

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1 hour ago, Lord_Slayer said:

So...... the Top aircraft you posted is an F4F Wildcat, the fighter that served as the primary Navy fighter the beginning of WW2, then was relegated to the CVEs and secondary tasks later in the war.

The second aircraft you have posted is a P-43 Lancer. It lacked armor, slef-sealing fuel tanks and was considered obsolete in 1941, though they were sent to China as lend-lease.

 

 

And these are P-47s

 

P-47-rmpg.jpg

P3%20(1).jpg

Sorry about that, I was just going by what the articles said. Nice post!

LOL, even a Google search on the images reveals their true identity. The guy that wrote the article I referenced probably just got his captions mixed up.

Quote

Yes, that is definitely an F6F Hellcat

At least I got that part right because those were the fighter planes in the movie.

Edited by Snargfargle

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