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Edge_O_Insanity

CV rockets need a nerf

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Im sick and tired of having 30-40% or more of my HP taken by CVs in ONE PASS by rocket planes. This is not balance.

Midway struck me (udaloi) with one pass, nose in to his planes for 9383, set two fires (another 698 dmg) , broke engine, rudder, and one torp tube. He took 10k from a ship with 19150 total HP and broke 3 modules...In...one...pass...
In return I was able to down 1 attack plane. 1. 

CVs taking reduced fire and flood damage, IS NOT BALANCED.

CVs being able to bounce AP at close range, IS NOT BALANCED.



WG, seriously fix this crap. 

Honestly if I didnt have 600+ days of premium or I could sell this crap and recoup some of my money I would.  

Edited by Edge_O_Insanity
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To be honest, rocket plane should be removed all together. Rocket plane was not part of the actual strategy of any carrier against other ships, and the ability to spot DD is close to be enough to deter them as a CV.

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11 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

To be honest, rocket plane should be removed all together. Rocket plane was not part of the actual strategy of any carrier against other ships, and the ability to spot DD is close to be enough to deter them as a CV.

Yeah often a CV simply spotting a DD is more than enough as their team will typically target the DD if spotted.

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5 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

To be honest, rocket plane should be removed all together. Rocket plane was not part of the actual strategy of any carrier against other ships, and the ability to spot DD is close to be enough to deter them as a CV.

Entirely untrue, later in WWII, SOP for the USN CV's was to have 4 squadrons of aircraft per carrier, one of fighters, one of fighter's armed with rockets, one of dive bombers, and finally one of torpedo bombers. The fighters with rockets were intended to attack shortly before the torpedo bombers, in order to give the torpedo bombers the greatest chance of survival.

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2 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Entirely untrue, later in WWII, SOP for the USN CV's was to have 4 squadrons of aircraft per carrier, one of fighters, one of fighter's armed with rockets, one of dive bombers, and finally one of torpedo bombers. The fighters with rockets were intended to attack shortly before the torpedo bombers, in order to give the torpedo bombers the greatest chance of survival.

May well be historically accurate, but this is not a simulator.  Its a tactical FPS that has counterplay built in for most engagements.

CVs are a strategic platform and inherently cannot be balanced in a tactical FPS, atleast not in their current form.  There is no counterplay unless the CV messes up, and even then it usually isnt game ending for the CV. 

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17 minutes ago, Edge_O_Insanity said:

May well be historically accurate, but this is not a simulator.  Its a tactical FPS that has counterplay built in for most engagements.

CVs are a strategic platform and inherently cannot be balanced in a tactical FPS, atleast not in their current form.  There is no counterplay unless the CV messes up, and even then it usually isnt game ending for the CV. 

True, it's not a simulator. Air detection range is far shorter than in real life. Also spotting in real life is a two way deal, if a destroyer can see a Fuso, the Fuso can see the destroyer. Destroyers are stealthy, and in real life, also nearly blind.  It is also far less a tactical game than say, World of Tanks and far more strategic than you give it credit. In World of Warships, many ships can make a poor choice at the start of a match, and the ship is effectively dead long before someone actually shoots it.

There is plenty of counterplay to deal with the threat a CV poses, all of it involves not running off on your own trying to 1 v/s 12 the other team. Being agressive as a team, moving up to take objective and making the match shorter also does wonders. I've seen it used, and used it myself, it is effective. I also use CV's to prey on the fools that run off on their own away from all support, so I know that what I'm seeing here is players that cannot and will not adapt screaming to have the rules changed to "make them good". 

Edited by SgtBeltfed
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10 minutes ago, Edge_O_Insanity said:

May well be historically accurate, but this is not a simulator.  Its a tactical FPS that has counterplay built in for most engagements.

No, it is a nautical themed combat RPG. This is not a FPS.

 

11 minutes ago, Edge_O_Insanity said:

CVs are a strategic platform and inherently cannot be balanced in a tactical FPS, atleast not in their current form.  There is no counterplay unless the CV messes up, and even then it usually isnt game ending for the CV. 

As in any team based RPG, counterplay is specialized and distributed between different character classes, no character is able to counter all types of attacks. To fight the damn wizards/mages you need a specialized anti-magic class or just deplete their mana/spell points 

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2 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

True, it's not a simulator. Air detection range is far shorter than in real life. Also spotting in real life is a two way deal, if a destroyer can see a Fuso, the Fuso can see the destroyer. Destroyers are stealthy, and in real life, also nearly blind.  It is also far less a tactical game than say, World of Tanks and far more strategic than you give it credit. In World of Warships, many ships can make a poor choice at the start of a match, and the ship is effectively dead long before someone actually shoots it.

There is plenty of counterplay to deal with the threat a CV poses, all of it involves not running off on your own trying to 1 v/s 12 the other team. Being agressive as a team, moving up to take objective and making the match shorter also does wonders. I've seen it used, and used it myself, it is effective. I also use CV's to prey on the fools that run off on their own away from all support, so I know that what I'm seeing here is players that cannot and will not adapt screaming to have the rules changed to "make them good". 

I mean this with all my affection- Get bent guy.  You run right into personal attacks instead of debating the issue. 

If the counter to CVs is for the entire team to ball up into an AA bubble, that is not counterplay.  It is a broken mechanic.  If you cant see that, then you are part of the problem. 

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7 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

True, it's not a simulator. Air detection range is far shorter than in real life. Also spotting in real life is a two way deal, if a destroyer can see a Fuso, the Fuso can see the destroyer. Destroyers are stealthy, and in real life, also nearly blind.  It is also far less a tactical game than say, World of Tanks and far more strategic than you give it credit. In World of Warships, many ships can make a poor choice at the start of a match, and the ship is effectively dead long before someone actually shoots it.

There is plenty of counterplay to deal with the threat a CV poses, all of it involves not running off on your own trying to 1 v/s 12 the other team. Being agressive as a team, moving up to take objective and making the match shorter also does wonders. I've seen it used, and used it myself, it is effective. I also use CV's to prey on the fools that run off on their own away from all support, so I know that what I'm seeing here is players that cannot and will not adapt screaming to have the rules changed to "make them good". 

People will complain than change so they either learn to adapt or leave. I'm glad WG is bringing changes. Good response.

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I've been saying this since day one of rocket planes. Before CV rework when my DD's got wrecked it was by a gunboat 40% of the time, cruiser 50% and CV  5-10%.  After CV rework my DD get destroyed by rocket planes 90% of the time. 

Yeah, something is broken.

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I’m tired of getting Wall of Skilled by DDs, but you don’t see me making topics about it on the forum do you?

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8 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

No, it is a nautical themed combat RPG. This is not a FPS.

 

As in any team based RPG, counterplay is specialized and distributed between different character classes, no character is able to counter all types of attacks. To fight the damn wizards/mages you need a specialized anti-magic class or just deplete their mana/spell points 

If you want to call it that, then what is supposed to be the CV counter?  As of now, there is none, unless the CV player flys directly into flak clouds.  Even then he will still likely get a hit off.

Not a huge deal for a BB to lose 5k in a pass.

CA/CL can manage and usually have heals to help mitigate as well.

a DD with 20k hp takes 5-10k and hes just lost 25-50% of their HP and no way to regen it.

Its broken, and mainly the spotting and rocket planes are the culprit. That and a direct lack of counter-play that doesnt involve denigrating into a mass of ships. 

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9 minutes ago, Edge_O_Insanity said:

If you want to call it that, then what is supposed to be the CV counter?  As of now, there is none, unless the CV player flys directly into flak clouds.  Even then he will still likely get a hit off.

Not a huge deal for a BB to lose 5k in a pass.

CA/CL can manage and usually have heals to help mitigate as well.

a DD with 20k hp takes 5-10k and hes just lost 25-50% of their HP and no way to regen it.

Its broken, and mainly the spotting and rocket planes are the culprit. That and a direct lack of counter-play that doesnt involve denigrating into a mass of ships. 

You park your DD next to your CV, you should be pretty safe there... you'll have a CAP and all.

Edited by ArIskandir
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Folks,

Cool it with the personal stabs.

-Hapa

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11 minutes ago, Edge_O_Insanity said:

I mean this with all my affection- Get bent guy.  You run right into personal attacks instead of debating the issue. 

If the counter to CVs is for the entire team to ball up into an AA bubble, that is not counterplay.  It is a broken mechanic.  If you cant see that, then you are part of the problem. 

Not attacking anyone personally, just an observation that happens to fit 95% of these posts.

It also doesn't have to be the entire team balling up, just grouping up with 2 other ships is usually enough.

Edited by SgtBeltfed
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The funny thing is, CV's should generally only go after DD's as a last resort or if it's a soft target. With the overwhelming amount of CA/CL's with hydro/radar and HE spam to spare they should be the primary DD hunters. Sure CV's should spot but they should be more worried about the BB's and keeping them occupied and away from combat.

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58 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

To be honest, rocket plane should be removed all together. Rocket plane was not part of the actual strategy of any carrier against other ships, and the ability to spot DD is close to be enough to deter them as a CV.

 

39 minutes ago, Edge_O_Insanity said:

May well be historically accurate, but this is not a simulator.  Its a tactical FPS that has counterplay built in for most engagements.

This is so funny.

One guy says CVs shouldn't be able to have aircraft doing rocket attacks against ships because it wasn't an actual thing conducted by them.

Another poster showed it was historical.

Then the other guy says it shouldn't happen even though it was historical.

Bill Murray LOL - Reaction GIFs

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DD Torpedoes CV Rocket Planes
On average 45 seconds to dodge On average 0.3 seconds to dodge
Reloads in about 1-2 minutes Turns around next strike in 8-10 seconds
Needs to put themselves in danger Launches from complete safety
Hydro negates threat heavily AA from 2019 onwards is a joke

"They are the same thing"

- CV Apologists

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35 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

There is plenty of counterplay to deal with the threat a CV poses, all of it involves not running off on your own trying to 1 v/s 12 the other team. Being agressive as a team, moving up to take objective and making the match shorter also does wonders. I've seen it used, and used it myself, it is effective. I also use CV's to prey on the fools that run off on their own away from all support, so I know that what I'm seeing here is players that cannot and will not adapt screaming to have the rules changed to "make them good". 

Be specific. What is this counterplay? 

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6 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:
DD Torpedoes CV Rocket Planes
On average 45 seconds to dodge On average 0.3 seconds to dodge
Reloads in about 1-2 minutes Turns around next strike in 8-10 seconds
Needs to put themselves in danger Launches from complete safety
Hydro negates threat heavily AA from 2019 onwards is a joke

"They are the same thing"

- CV Apologists

You need to start that dodge pretty much when they start their attack run so you have a lot longer to dodge than you are claiming.

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17 minutes ago, SgtBeltfed said:

Not attacking anyone personally, just an observation that happens to fit 95% of these posts.

It also doesn't have to be the entire team balling up, just grouping up with 2 other ships is usually enough.

Hahaha no. My last outing in Neustrashimy I was between two alleged AA cruisers and a nearby BB and still got rockets for thousands of HP lost. 

AA. Doesn't. Work. 

Simple as that.

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3 minutes ago, TheTrickpony said:

The funny thing is, CV's should generally only go after DD's as a last resort or if it's a soft target. With the overwhelming amount of CA/CL's with hydro/radar and HE spam to spare they should be the primary DD hunters. Sure CV's should spot but they should be more worried about the BB's and keeping them occupied and away from combat.

Doesn't work that way.

First this a CV should do, is find out where the reds are going. Don't need the details, but knowing where they are going in number will help your team react appropriately.

Second is to achieve destroyer superiority. The first team to run out of destroyers usually loses. Destroyers offer vision control, in a way that CV's cannot. A CV is like launching a flare in the dark, a DD is more like having night vision optics. The CV doesn't have to sink the DD's, just make sure someone sinks the DD, which in my experience is usually what happens.

The last thing that a CV should bother doing is going after the battleships, as per weapon dropped they are worth the least XP and credits, have the least impact on vision control, and are the least mobile ships.

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Really, I don't know why is so difficult to understand... For the sake of clarity, indulge me this example.

You are preparing your character for the next raid and you know, everybody knows, even the DM tells you: "Expect vampires in the next dungeon". 

Instead of loading some wooden stakes, holy water and a crucifix, you don't and go on with  your old trusty dual daggers and +2 leather armor with acid protection... because there are also traps, and oozes, etc. 

You go into the dungeon well equipped to fight most enemies but vampires, after all you have a witch hunter in your party and you think "the witch hunter will kill the vampire", then instead of staying around with your party you cloak and go on your own to do what burglars usually do, you wan't all that booty for yourself!... until the vampire shows up, you are alone, the witch hunter is nowhere near to help you, the vampire melts your daggers and laugh at you before killing you. Who's to blame?... let me guess, the DM that told you there will be vampires in the dungeon.

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30 minutes ago, SkaerKrow said:

I’m tired of getting Wall of Skilled by DDs, but you don’t see me making topics about it on the forum do you?

Not even remotely comparable.  

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5 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Hahaha no. My last outing in Neustrashimy I was between two alleged AA cruisers and a nearby BB and still got rockets for thousands of HP lost. 

AA. Doesn't. Work. 

Simple as that.

And I 've had it work well, both for me and against me. Go find yourself better cruisers to hang with I guess.

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