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HallaSnackbar

Overpenns are getting a bit ridiculous

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I get it that WG wanted to protect DD's and cruisers from that lucky AP shell lobbed early game at 18km.  Where the issue keeps coming up is the same DD's and cruisers pulling out broadside to the same BB at sub 10km, taking a full salvo of 16" shells for minimal damage.

I get the fuse timer concept and before people start jumping on the "realism" and how those shell should just pass through without detonating let's remember first of all this is not a simulator.   Secondly even if it was, you can't say having 12 - 16" shells passing through the hull and superstructure of a ship would not cause serious damage, break modules, kill crews, cause flooding etc.

My proposal is this, in any single salvo the first overpenn still causes minimal damage however each additional overpenn of that same salvo should increase in damage exponentially.   The days of a light cruiser or DD sitting broadside to a BB and "tanking" it with overpenns while gunning it down need to be over.

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So basically, you don't want there to ever be a need for a BB to switch to HE (outside of the British BBs)?  Probably not going to happen, as what you suggest would basically make every single DD and cruiser food for BBs.

Edited by Old_Baldy_One

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At high tiers even AP overpenetration alpha is quite damaging on DDs. I have gotten chunked for 7-8k hp when being careless. Consider that this is the equavalent of losing 30-40% of your HP often without a chance for repair. 

That said I would agree it's ridiculous on some cruisers, especially in sub 10km range.

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Its pretty rediculous that a cruiser hits the BB with 2-4 shells every 6-9 seconds for 3-6k, but then the BB hits the cruiser back with 5 AP shells the size of a house when only getting to shoot every 26 seconds or worse and hits for......2300.

 

Come on

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32 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

So basically, you don't want there to ever be a need for a BB to switch to HE (outside of the British BBs)?  Probably not going to happen, as what you suggest would basically make every single DD and cruiser food for BBs.

Not necessarily,  a single he shell should still do more damage than a single or even two overpenns.  When shooting at maneuvering DD's at range, he should still be a better choice.  I am talking about that DD or cruiser that chooses to sit in smoke while you close the distance then gets proximity spotted still fully broadside and eats a full salvo but still survives.  That should be a fatal mistake regardless of the shell type fired.

Edited by HallaSnackbar

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8 minutes ago, HallaSnackbar said:

Not necessarily,  a single he shell should still do more damage than a single or even two overpenns.  When shooting at maneuvering DD's at range, he should still be a better choice.  I am talking about that DD or cruiser that chooses to sit in smoke while you close the distance then gets proximity spotted still fully broadside and eats a full salvo but still survives.  That should be a fatal mistake regardless of the shell type fired.

I agree its a little sad that DDs and cruisers can sometimes get away with making fatal mistakes with just scratches.  That said, the rate at which fatal mistakes are significantly punished far far far far outweighs the risks BBs take when making mistakes.  Cruisers and DDs can be wiped off the map in a single shot, which is not really something that happens too often with BBs.

They are trying to make BB drivers make a choice between HE and AP.  Even with this overpen stuff, most BB drivers forget they even have HE.  Any "bonus" to overpens would just be less reason to use HE, and that's not what WG is aiming for.

If they were to change something around this, I'd suggest giving all BBs the Expert Loader perk for free (maybe with a slight disadvantage of increasing the next round of reloading by a few seconds), with the current Expert Loader perk buffing it.  That way, when you are charging that DD in smoke, you can quickly change to HE and hit them hard, without having to wait the full cycle.  Of course, just taking EL to begin with reduces this problem also.

 

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If you wanted consistent gunnery, you play Cruisers, but that comes at the cost of survival capability.

 

Battleships emphasize survival.  Make a mistake in a DD or Cruiser, you're going to get smashed.  The funny part is despite all the complaints about BB dispersion and the RNG nature of their main batteries, is that Battleships are typically Damage Average leaders for most of the tiers out there.  Probably because of the BB ability to survive so much, that eventually, some of those salvos go their way.

 

People complain about their BB Overpenning, but they sure as hell don't say anything when they actually smash some Cruiser with multi-Citadel hits, or land a bunch of shells on a DD taking big chunks of HP off the lowest HP ships in the game.  Not to mention that Repair Party is a standard feature for ALL Battleships, helping drive the point of surviving through thick and thin.  Meanwhile Repair Party access for Cruisers is very limited and Destroyers are even worse off in access to that consumable.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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2 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If you wanted consistent gunnery, you play Cruisers, but that comes at the cost of survival capability.

 

Battleships emphasize survival.  Make a mistake in a DD or Cruiser, you're going to get smashed.  The funny part is despite all the complaints about BB dispersion and the RNG nature of their main batteries, is that Battleships are typically Damage Average leaders for most of the tiers out there.  Probably because of the BB ability to survive so much, that eventually, some of those salvos go their way.

 

People complain about their BB Overpenning, but they sure as hell don't say anything when they actually smash some Cruiser with multi-Citadel hits, or land a bunch of shells on a DD taking big chunks of HP off the lowest HP ships in the game.  Not to mention that Repair Party is a standard feature for ALL Battleships, helping drive the point of surviving through thick and thin.  Meanwhile Repair Party access for Cruisers is very limited and Destroyers are even worse off in access to that consumable.

Inconsistent shell performance is always going to rile people up, when the player base is casual and the game is arcade. :Smile_glasses:

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IMO, Rico/non pens are the real issue... You can actually achieve a %90 achievement rate for them... Making 157MM and below guns utterly useless.

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Two thoughts on this:

1. When I'm in my DD, I have no problem sailing broadside next to a BB I know is using AP.  The shells will do little damage to me.  This is a farce of WG logic and cracks me up every time.

2. The same patch which nerfed AP damage to every ship DDs, actually nerfed AP damage to EVERY EFFIN SHIP.   Don't care what their patch notes say,,,, it nerfed AP for everything.  

So,,,,, get used to it.  WG likes Flameslingers.  Flameslingers are pew pew fast paced platforms.  Flameslingers are generally CLs.  So they took the opportunity, in the name of helping DDs, to EFFIN nerf AP against all CLs/DDs.   Balance my friends.  Have some vodka.

Cheers!!

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WE must create an army of Canadian Battleship Profile Pictures!

  • Cool 1

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42 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

Of course, just taking EL to begin with reduces this problem also.

 

It's amazing how that 1extra point can mess up your build though for your ship sometimes .

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This is one case where a little history goes a long ways.

Read up on The Battle off Samar, Yamato's only surface engagement, where a group of IJN battleships and heavy cruisers was utterly humiliated by a group of DD's, DE's and CVE's that collectively massed less than Yamato alone.

Overpen was a huge factor in this battle, Yamato put a bunch of 18" holes in DD's and DE's in the engagement, with limited effect, as did the other BB's and even the CA's. The IJN wasn't so lucky on the receiving end. 

Be glad that WG hasn't properly modelled the results of hitting a IJN torpedo launcher with anything, even a single 5" shell. At Samar the USS White Plains (a CVE with a single 5" gun) broke the Chokai (a Takao-class CA) with 8 5" hits which cooked off the torpedo fuel. That weakness was endemic to these torpedo launchers (the Long Lance's hit hard, but the fuel included LOX and was very explosive and hits to the torpedo launchers were the biggest weakness of IJN cruisers)

Yeah, overpen is frustrating. It was equally so in real life.

Edited by Mawz77

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3 hours ago, HallaSnackbar said:

I get it that WG wanted to protect DD's and cruisers from that lucky AP shell lobbed early game at 18km.  Where the issue keeps coming up is the same DD's and cruisers pulling out broadside to the same BB at sub 10km, taking a full salvo of 16" shells for minimal damage.

WG wants everyone to use HE/SAP unless they're 100% sure they can get citadel or pen with AP.

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