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Bluemoon51

Movement At Sea

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Let me start by saying I think overall World of Warships from a visual standpoint is stunning, one only needs to look at the ports to see the progress it has made from the early days and most if not all of the maps are now mini-stories themselves. However, the one thing I think the game is really lacking is the feeling of movement, the water feels very two dimensional as was playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey the other night(and I know Greek Triremes would have been much lighter, but when you sail there there is a real feeling of movement and the ocean feels real and not lifeless, I also enjoy seeing that there is life in the sea too.

What do other people thinks is that something you agree with? is it even possible within this type of engine? would it impact gameplay?

 

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     Realistic pitch and roll would be great for some of us, but I'm afraid some players might wind up shouting for Ralph at the lifelines. :Smile_teethhappy:

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2 hours ago, Bluemoon51 said:

Let me start by saying I think overall World of Warships from a visual standpoint is stunning, one only needs to look at the ports to see the progress it has made from the early days and most if not all of the maps are now mini-stories themselves. However, the one thing I think the game is really lacking is the feeling of movement, the water feels very two dimensional as was playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey the other night(and I know Greek Triremes would have been much lighter, but when you sail there there is a real feeling of movement and the ocean feels real and not lifeless, I also enjoy seeing that there is life in the sea too.

What do other people thinks is that something you agree with? is it even possible within this type of engine? would it impact gameplay?

 

Some clan mates and I have essentially moved over to ATLAS. Its still an Alpha, and needs LOTS of love, but Ive commmented that Im impressed with the way the game depicts pitch and yaw, that the ships actually feel like they are moving through open ocean. It also amazes me that the game imparts a fairly realistic sense of speed in the game, unlike WoWS. 

That said, ATLAS, compared to WoWS, is a huge resource hog, boith on the CPU and GPU. Some player systems might have a hard time with it. WoWS is fairly light on resource demands and I think is more friendly to a wider range of platforms. 

It would be amazing to get the ocean and movement effects that ATLAS has in WoWS, but there are far bigger problems with WoWS that need, or should be, addressed before they invest in more cosmetic [edited].

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3 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

t would be amazing to get the ocean and movement effects that ATLAS has in WoWS, but there are far bigger problems with WoWS that need, or should be, addressed before they invest in more cosmetic [edited].

One would assume that the team that works on the games cosmetics isn't the one that is dealing with gameplay and balance..

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If you had Pitch and roll do you know how many people would get  Sea Sick  That and nobody would be able to hit anything!

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So you don't want to hit anything. 

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2 hours ago, Bluemoon51 said:

One would assume that the team that works on the games cosmetics isn't the one that is dealing with gameplay and balance..

One would think but based on the dumpster fire Ive seen of late I have to wonder....

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23 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

So you don't want to hit anything. 

Yeah...there is the fact that actually, ya know, simulating the way ships move, rather than the reskin of a tank game we have, would add an additional element that would add too much challenge for some. If you have the basest sense of how naval ballistics and FCS's work, its actually not that difficult. "Fire on the roll!" as Percy Scott would say. Wouldn't want to jack up anyone's precious stats, tho. It would drive the cutters into a frenzy.

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4 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

One would think but based on the dumpster fire Ive seen of late I have to wonder....

Very true!!!

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2 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

 If you have the basest sense of how naval ballistics and FCS's work, its actually not that difficult. "Fire on the roll!" as Percy Scott would say. Wouldn't want to jack up anyone's precious stats, tho. It would drive the cutters into a frenzy.

LOL, that doesn't make much sense. Naval ballistics doesn't have RNG in it. You wouldn't hit anything, You definitely haven't thought it through.

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32 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

So you don't want to hit anything. 

You understand this is a simulation and we are talking about movement not aiming stability they aren't linked.

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1 hour ago, Raven114 said:

If you had Pitch and roll do you know how many people would get  Sea Sick  That and nobody would be able to hit anything!

Sounds like a personal problem for them. Never had any respect or sympathy for lowly wogs or no-seagoing types that have issues with sea sickness.

Sea sickness is an imbalance in the inner ear aggravated by the motion of the ship, much car sickness or air sickness. This is a video game; youre not actually moving. If someonne got seasick from that, theyve got bigger issues.

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Unfortunately, adding realistic visual effects can also require more system resources and better GPU. While improving the game for some it can do the opposite for those on older or less expensive computers.

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2 minutes ago, jager_geist said:

LOL, that doesn't make much sense. Naval ballistics doesn't have RNG in it. You wouldn't hit anything, You definitely haven't thought it through.

It doesnt? isntthat what RNG simulates? The random inconsistencies in the powder lots, air density, rotation of the earth, barrel wear, etc etc that  create dispersion in the first place? 

Funny...even before the advent of mechanical computers in the FCS, ships managed to hit things...

You should read the work done by Percy Scott, CAPT, RN, on naval gunnery and ballistics. Little pixel boats bobbing and weaving in a videp game is childs play. All you would have to do is time your shots to coincide with the roll. Except in excessive sea states (not likley to be modelled), pitch on the scale we are talking would almost be a non-issue.

Me thinks people are thinking this wouold be overly complicated.

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4 minutes ago, STINKWEED_ said:

Unfortunately, adding realistic visual effects can also require more system resources and better GPU. While improving the game for some it can do the opposite for those on older or less expensive computers.

Thats basically what I said, all though far more succinctly put. Thanks, Stinkweed!

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24 minutes ago, BBsquid said:

Sea sickness is an imbalance in the inner ear aggravated by the motion of the ship, much car sickness or air sickness. This is a video game; youre not actually moving. If someonne got seasick from that, theyve got bigger issues.

Some can get seasick in these situations.  When the visual queues from the eyes don't coincide with what the inner ear is telling the brain, sea sickness can occur.  Some people have a hard time with 3D movies or movies that have a lot of movement for that very reason.  People with that problem will have an issue with virtual glasses when a lot of content hits the masses.

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29 minutes ago, Murcc said:

Some can get seasick in these situations.  When the visual queues from the eyes don't coincide with what the inner ear is telling the brain, sea sickness can occur.  Some people have a hard time with 3D movies or movies that have a lot of movement for that very reason.  People with that problem will have an issue with virtual glasses when a lot of content hits the masses.

I see your poiint, but I dont think it necessarily applies to what would develop in game. People with problems with rapid motion in movies are normally looking at a realtively small, fixed area, and that implied motion plays havoc with them. People that get car sick, for example, generally have a worse time in the back seat, with limited reference points, than say someone sitting up front. I know this is a gross generalization, and there are no absolutes.

Shipoboard, our nuggets had a hard time if they worked inside the skin of the ship. If we got them topside and had them focus on the horizon...a good majority adjusted well and were shipshape in a day or two. Again, no absolutes. My last ship had an Air Warfare officer that would projectile vomit  as soon as we cast off the mooring lines in port---even tiopside. He wasnt with us very long.

As far as the effect as it would apply in a realtively slow paced game like WoWS, where the ships would arguably have a slow role (I cant see the point of any company modelling excessive sea states), I cant see the effect being that bad. Ideally, most players spend the majority of their time looking across the map, trying to determine where to go, and maintaininng SA (note: I did say ideally). I think the only problem would be for those players that spend an inordinate amounnt of time target fixated in the gun sight. There, with the limited field of view, with the camera rolling up and down...that might make some ill. On the upside,it might encourage them to pop out of gun sight mode more often and look around.

JMHO, and I freely admit I could be way off base.

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7 hours ago, BBsquid said:

As far as the effect as it would apply in a realtively slow paced game like WoWS, where the ships would arguably have a slow role (I cant see the point of any company modelling excessive sea states), I cant see the effect being that bad. Ideally, most players spend the majority of their time looking across the map, trying to determine where to go, and maintaininng SA (note: I did say ideally). I think the only problem would be for those players that spend an inordinate amounnt of time target fixated in the gun sight. There, with the limited field of view, with the camera rolling up and down...that might make some ill. On the upside,it might encourage them to pop out of gun sight mode more often and look around.

I suspect you are correct.  The amount of roll should be fairly gentle and no worst than watching a movie where the horizon is moving a bit.

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5 hours ago, Murcc said:

I suspect you are correct.  The amount of roll should be fairly gentle and no worst than watching a movie where the horizon is moving a bit.

After I woke up and had some coffee, Murcc...I kinda cede your point. I remembered I had a roommate and a girlfriend that got dizzy/ill when they watched my play my MiG29 and SU27 flight sims. The yanking and banking in dogfights, the rapid scrolling effect of the HUD, and whaytever else really messed them up. I distinctly recall a time I had my gf actinng as WSO on a bombing run while dodging AAA and SAMs moving low and fast. IIRC I had to hold her hair later lol. So yeah, I accept that people can be sickened by perceived motion in a game.

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14 hours ago, STINKWEED_ said:

Unfortunately, adding realistic visual effects can also require more system resources and better GPU. While improving the game for some it can do the opposite for those on older or less expensive computers.

So make it an option to reduce said effects for those with less than adequate pc's.  It should not be a one or the other decision.

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9 hours ago, Snarky_Wombat said:

So make it an option to reduce said effects for those with less than adequate pc's.  It should not be a one or the other decision.

I honestly thing the visuals of the ships in movement isn't bad. A 500% improvement from what they  started with. I guess it could have effects of the ships bouncing their bows in rough seas and all the additional splash effects for those who have higher end computers and graphic cards as an option. 

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Sure.  My problem is when people argue against something because some people don't have good pc's and therefore we should not have it, whatever it is.  I am a strong argument of giving options instead.

 

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On 5/14/2020 at 3:52 AM, Bluemoon51 said:

Let me start by saying I think overall World of Warships from a visual standpoint is stunning, one only needs to look at the ports to see the progress it has made from the early days and most if not all of the maps are now mini-stories themselves. However, the one thing I think the game is really lacking is the feeling of movement, the water feels very two dimensional as was playing Assassin's Creed Odyssey the other night(and I know Greek Triremes would have been much lighter, but when you sail there there is a real feeling of movement and the ocean feels real and not lifeless, I also enjoy seeing that there is life in the sea too.

What do other people thinks is that something you agree with? is it even possible within this type of engine? would it impact gameplay?

 

So we actually tried this at one point before the game went live.

And let me tell you it did not go well, especially for those players that can get vertigo or actually sick, I think there are mods that add that in, but TBH, it doesn't work well for us.

Perhaps in the future we might have a slider to add or remove certain amounts of this.

-Hapa

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It's a video game. Add too much realism and you get a true sim with real issues. RNG would be removed of course and a single torpedo ruins a BB player's day.

You wouldn't want Mario to get wrecked while wrecking his cart? And countless others games basically nerf reality. You have to. Or ESRB would be all over it.

Like nobody would realistically grow that many turnips on animal crossing. That's a lot of gas. That would leave a hole in the ozone layer.

Videogames have to change something to make it entertaining and concessions are made for reasonable game play.

You want a sailing experience? Get on a sailing boat. Put it in game and you will have your kids hurling on the carpet.

 

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Actually, given that the water in the game is almost universally Sea State 2 or lower and the mass of warships, it wouldn't make any actual difference, as a ship moving through such water doesn't really yaw and pitch much (to which I was endlessly grateful when we actually got to sail on such flat water).  Probably not worth the time to code unless they were going to put in higher Sea States and the effects of trying to handle ships in them (which would probably have a lot of people asking for it to be removed).

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