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Fog_Cruiser_Nurnberg

ok, time to restore Worcesters radar range maybe?

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With the Ochakov Having a great concealment for a cruiser it can get it's detection down to 9.1. This ship also has a 10KM radar range. If my memory is correct when WG updated radar ships, Worcester got it's nerfed to better match it's max concealment. and yet now we have a russian ship that has the same radar range and concealment as Worcester used to have.

I was annoyed when the "simplified" radar by lessening the difference between the USN and Russian Navy but now that they just gave a russian ship something that a USN had that was deemed a bit to strong, I think there is room for argument to have Worcester radar range increased to what it used to be before.

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3 minutes ago, Fog_Cruiser_Nurnberg said:

With the Ochakov Having a great concealment for a cruiser it can get it's detection down to 9.1. This ship also has a 10KM radar range. If my memory is correct when WG updated radar ships, Worcester got it's nerfed to better match it's max concealment. and yet now we have a russian ship that has the same radar range and concealment as Worcester used to have.

I was annoyed when the "simplified" radar by lessening the difference between the USN and Russian Navy but now that they just gave a russian ship something that a USN had that was deemed a bit to strong, I think there is room for argument to have Worcester radar range increased to what it used to be before.

Nyet

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5 minutes ago, Fog_Cruiser_Nurnberg said:

With the Ochakov Having a great concealment for a cruiser it can get it's detection down to 9.1. This ship also has a 10KM radar range. If my memory is correct when WG updated radar ships, Worcester got it's nerfed to better match it's max concealment. and yet now we have a russian ship that has the same radar range and concealment as Worcester used to have.

I was annoyed when the "simplified" radar by lessening the difference between the USN and Russian Navy but now that they just gave a russian ship something that a USN had that was deemed a bit to strong, I think there is room for argument to have Worcester radar range increased to what it used to be before.

 

 

Yes this is 100 percent a big fat NOOOOOOO. Have you seen the new UU upgrade for Worcester? Yea, this is a huge no.....I don't think anyone wants a 1 minute long radar with a 90 sec cooldown that has range..... and they get an extra one on top...... Yea fat NO

Edited by Slumlord_Dasboot
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Ochakov do not have anywhere close to the DPM of the worcester, giving the 10KM back to Worcester would mean a lot of DD (especially those with slow acceleration) simply are impossible to escape the rapid-fire of death.

 

The only way the worcester is going to gain back 10km radar is to have her main gun reload nerf to 7s~. 

Edited by Xcalib3r
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15 minutes ago, Fog_Cruiser_Nurnberg said:

With the Ochakov Having a great concealment for a cruiser it can get it's detection down to 9.1. This ship also has a 10KM radar range. If my memory is correct when WG updated radar ships, Worcester got it's nerfed to better match it's max concealment. and yet now we have a russian ship that has the same radar range and concealment as Worcester used to have.

I was annoyed when the "simplified" radar by lessening the difference between the USN and Russian Navy but now that they just gave a russian ship something that a USN had that was deemed a bit to strong, I think there is room for argument to have Worcester radar range increased to what it used to be before.

Id much rather they add radar to Smolensk rather than adding it to what is already one of the most overpowered T10s in the game

Stealth radar on cruisers with actual DPM and armor is almost as bad as CVs in terms of ruining the game.

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3 minutes ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Id much rather they add radar to Smolensk rather than adding it to what is already one of the most overpowered T10s in the game

Stealth radar on cruisers with actual DPM and armor is almost as bad as CVs in terms of ruining the game.

Yes, other than Smolensk, while we're at it i think Kleber and Marceau deserved a 7.5km radar like the Smaland as well.  ;-)

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Worcester is already very strong, she doesn't need more buff.

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No, no ship should be able to stealth radar. Specially ships with insane DPM like Worcester that can kill a DD in seconds. This leave DDs with no chance of counterplay. 

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25 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

no thanks.  Wooster is strong enough as is. 

I’ll have to take your, and everyone else’s, word for that.

RoF is great, but I’ve not been impressed by its ability to actually damage things.

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Its not Russian why would they give it useable radar range?

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1 hour ago, Xcalib3r said:

Ochakov do not have anywhere close to the DPM of the worcester, giving the 10KM back to Worcester would mean a lot of DD (especially those with slow acceleration) simply are impossible to escape the rapid-fire of death.

 

The only way the worcester is going to gain back 10km radar is to have her main gun reload nerf to 7s~. 

You DD players have no such sympathy for  ships with slow acceleration that cannot escape your blistering walls of skill and reloads from teleportation...

Worcester doesn't even have torpedoes, just spam and utility. 

Stop nerfing USN ships...

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Yep 9 k radar when other USN have 10 k is [edited] ....

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As if we don't have enough radar ships in high tier game, most random battles often have 3 to 6 radar ships per side, making it impossible to get anywhere close to the cap when these fire breather camp close to cap and take turn spamming radar all day long when there wasn't enough BB in the match to counter them.  

out of the 12x T10 cruisers in my port 6 of them have radars: Staling, Moskva, DM, Worcester, Salem, and Mino.  soon there's going to be the 7th when the new heavy russian cruiser come online.  lol

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1 hour ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

I’ll have to take your, and everyone else’s, word for that.

RoF is great, but I’ve not been impressed by its ability to actually damage things.

Never really had a problem damaging things.  You dump enough rounds down range that anything you are spamming will be on fire shortly.  You have enough pen without IFHE to pen DDs, most cruiser armor, and farm BB superstructers.  If you take IFHE, you can farm some BBs deck armor, and bow/stern armor.  You don't have to sacrifice hydro or DFAA for the other.   Radar is still usable.  You have a trolly citadel letting you get away with bad positioning more often.  There isn't a ship in the game that wants you close to them.  You may not have torps, but the DPM is still nasty.  I played the wooster before its radar nerf.  It was broken.  There was no situation where i felt severely handicapped.  I had tools for everything.  You were and still are a very good swiss army knife.  The ship is particularly nasty when kiting.  If you are looking for tier 10 cruisers to buff, look no further than the goliath. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Frederick_The_Great said:

Never really had a problem damaging things.  You dump enough rounds down range that anything you are spamming will be on fire shortly.  You have enough pen without IFHE to pen DDs, most cruiser armor, and farm BB superstructers.  If you take IFHE, you can farm some BBs deck armor, and bow/stern armor.  You don't have to sacrifice hydro or DFAA for the other.   Radar is still usable.  You have a trolly citadel letting you get away with bad positioning more often.  There isn't a ship in the game that wants you close to them.  You may not have torps, but the DPM is still nasty.  I played the wooster before its radar nerf.  It was broken.  There was no situation where i felt severely handicapped.  I had tools for everything.  You were and still are a very good swiss army knife.  The ship is particularly nasty when kiting.  If you are looking for tier 10 cruisers to buff, look no further than the goliath.

Out different opinions may lie with never having been very good with positioning strategically.

Tactically I’m not so bad, but I always seem to be out of position to really affect battles... :Smile_sceptic:

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1 hour ago, War182 said:

Yep 9 k radar when other USN have 10 k is [edited] ....

Manifested by the DD Mafia's fables of Worcester jumping over torpedo spreads and materializimg next to DD drivers too lazy to move out of their own smoke; or use that 13km hyper cavitation torpedo range.

Edited by Crokodone
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The ultimate upgrade change is going to bump the duration to something like 52 seconds with a minute and a half cool down plus it can get 5 charges. And you want to give it back stealth radar?

You just know this guy doesn't play DDs.

Edited by ksix

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35 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

Out different opinions may lie with never having been very good with positioning strategically.

Tactically I’m not so bad, but I always seem to be out of position to really affect battles... :Smile_sceptic:

One of the best ways to learn is look where the enemy goes that annoys you the most.  Where do they stop you or your teammates from being effective.  Ships like the wooster or DM can take up lovely spots near caps, putting you in a position to heavily influence that part of the map.  Methodically move from one power position to the next depending on the flow of battle and be careful not to overextend.  If you more often than not find yourself out of the fight, waiting several minutes between combat, look at where you went and if you could of moved differently.  sometimes it cant be helped.  sometimes it can. 

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4 hours ago, DolphinPrincess said:

Id much rather they add radar to Smolensk rather than adding it to what is already one of the most overpowered T10s in the game

Stealth radar on cruisers with actual DPM and armor is almost as bad as CVs in terms of ruining the game.

I'd argue it would actually be worse.

I remember the 10km radar Worcester days, and I tried to play DD back then. The only correct move until you knew where the Worcester spawned was to literally do nothing and sit by your BBs. It was absolutely dumb, and I tried everything. Nothing could save you from a Worcester popping up 9km from you and taking at least half your HP because you were a kilometer in his radar trap by the time you spotted him. Then the icing on the cake, no one else could spot him for you (even CV) so he got to play vision games whenever he wanted. It was pure cancer, and made me quit DD for the duration of the time before it got nerfed. It wouldn't be as bad today now that radar has a 5 second window and planes die a pinch slower to Worcester AA, but it would still break the living hell out of WoWS. 10km radar Worcester pushes DDs out of their spot as Worc out-spots pretty much everything else anyways, and comes with a no go AA zone, more firepower, and melts any DD that foolishly decided to try to play the game at the same time as it existing. I'd argue it was the worst meta WoWS has ever had, right up there with with the flying shimakaze days.

 

So yeah no. Worc can suck a big one a stay where it is. 

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2 hours ago, Crokodone said:

Manifested by the DD Mafia's fables of Worcester jumping over torpedo spreads and materializimg next to DD drivers too lazy to move out of their own smoke; or use that 13km hyper cavitation torpedo range.

Tell me good sir what I should do about a ship that I cant spot, cant torp, and cant outgun in a DD. It's not just lazy smoke people that had troubles against 10km Worcester, it was every DD ever. 

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If Worcester's Legendary was unchanged, there'd be cause to bring the Radar range back up, but the Legendary is greatly altered with the proposed changes.  A Legendary-equipped Worcester can adopt a Full Stealth Build.  Her concealment : radar range gap will be similar to what Des Moines has.

11 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

From a Radar Cruiser perspective, this change to her Legendary makes her better.  She can adopt a Full Stealth Build and get her concealment range down to 9.76km, which is among the best in High Tier Cruisers.  She can't Stealth Radar because her Radar range got nerfed long ago down to Cleveland 9km levels.  The gap between her Stealth Build detection and Radar ranges will be similar to Des Moines.

Worcester 9.76km detection vs 9km Radar range

Des Moines 10.89km detection vs 10km Radar range

I'd say DM will still be the better Radar Cruiser contesting the cap than Worcester, but a DD running into a Worcester out in open water and doesn't pull back immediately is going to have a bad time.

 

The old Slot 5 Worcester Legendary made her a garbage Radar Cruiser because adopting it worsened her detection range to 10.84km, which is like DM, but unlike DM you had awful 9km Radar in Tier X.  It would leave almost a 2km gap between her Legendary Concealment range and Radar range.

 

The consumables reload and the extra charges are a welcome change.  I've often burned through my consumables when doing Radar Cruiser roles.  The extra charge is great.  The consumables reload buff is nice because Radar was always in high demand.

11 hours ago, Kizarvexis said:

Yeah, getting the CSM1 upgrade back will be big. 

With SI, you get;

48 second cooldown Damage Control Party w/unlimited charges
64 second cooldown Defensive AA Fire w/6 charges
96 second cooldown Surveillance Radar w/5 charges
64 second cooldown Repair Party w/5 charges
96 second cooldown Hydroacoustic Search w/5 charges

 

That's a lot of charges.

DM would still have a Radar range edge but Legendary Worcester will have extra charges for all consumables as well as a quicker reload for all of them.

The more I thought about it, the change sounds decent, unlike most of the other Legendary changes so far (RIP Henri IV).  I'd say this should be given a chance.

 

Also, though the RU Cruisers have Radar range, their active time is lower than USN / RN Radar.  Some base Radar values in Tier X.

 

Worcester (can't Stealth Radar) 9km radar, 40 seconds active time (recall Worcester's gun reload)

Petropavlovsk (has Stealth Radar capability) 12km radar, 15 seconds active time (strong guns but slow reload)

Alexander Nevsky & Moskva (can't Stealth Radar) 12km radar, 30 seconds active time

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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13 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

Tell me good sir what I should do about a ship that I cant spot, cant torp, and cant outgun in a DD. It's not just lazy smoke people that had troubles against 10km Worcester, it was every DD ever. 

WRONG: Khabarovsk never had problems with Worcester.  Kleber doesn't have problems. Too Soviet and French DDs all USN cruisers are free xp, including Grozovoi. Swede-Pan European DDs have no problems with anything their 90kt missi-torpedoes.

Outspot? Worcester has 9.1km concealment. What DD aside Khabarovsk has a stealth greeter than 9.1km even stock? 

This is why the DD mafia is the progress block of everything. You can't tell the truth to float your boat.

Edited by Crokodone
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14 hours ago, ksix said:

 You just know this guy doesn't play DDs.

Except i do, what i don't do is sing your mafioso tune. :cap_old:

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