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Whitebuster

Moskva good at angled bow tanking?

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After some research into Moskva's gameplay and strategies, it seems that Moskva has some good angled bow tanking abilities thanks to its 50mm bow plating that can even bounce 18" shells. I'm wondering if it's as good as the Yamato/Musashi at the bow tanking role. Is it able to hold its own at a choke point against incoming BBs?

Since Moskva has a terrible turn radius of 1050m and mediocre rudder shift time, it's very hard to turn around to disengage. The best solution, according to my understanding, is to keep the bow angled against the opponents and reverse in an attempt to disengage while dishing out damage. Has this tactic ever worked for you? If not, how do you disengage from enemy fire without overextending?

Thanks for your feedback!

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Moskva is pretty good in bow tanking / angling in, but there's limitations to that.

 

Though she has a 50mm deck and a considerable 50mm icebreaker in the lower half of her bow, the upper half of the bow is still 25mm.  That can still get Pen'ed easy by an unlucky shot.

 

There is also the matter that there are HE shells that will Pen 50mm armor, i.e. High Tier German CAs, and RN CAs with 234mm guns (Premium VIII Cheshire, Tech Tree IX Drake and X Goliath).  Hindenburg IMO is a significant concern.  Though the German Cruier HE shells have low HE alpha damage, Hindy has 12 guns and can be spec'ed to fire at 8.6 second reload before AR is kicking in.  Couple that with her high pen, that 50mm armor becomes irrelevant to Hindenburg.  RN BBs also have a penchant for using HE a lot, so things like Lion, Conqueror, and Thunderer firing their Mega HE shells will sh*t on you.

 

Moskva can capably tank but understand that while she has a healthy 65k HP pool, that's not going to matter against some of her HE focused opponents out there.  If someone insists on firing AP only against you, you're fine, but decent players will switch shells.  Meanwhile, actual BBs with thick deck armor like Yamato, Kremlin, GK, etc. have 100k+ HP.  They also have straight up 32mm bows.

 

Bow reversing works if the reds aren't pushing hard, but if they're surging forward you're in big trouble if ships are off to your side and are starting to get favorable angles.  The better thing I found out late with her is to recognize when a position is becoming untenable early on and bail before things are focused on you.

 

She's a great ship, I respect Moskva as an opposing ship, but I never felt comfortable with her due to her BB concealment, monstrous size, even more monstrous citadel, and BB-like maneuverability.  Just like with BBs, you have to be careful when you use bow on, angling tactics.  Resorting to it by default may not be a good choice depending on the threats in the area.  If I wanted a ship that sails like a Battleship, has BB conealment, then I'll just play a BB, get BB HP levels, and BB armor.

 

Something to help you out that I've seen some Moskva users do is use islands.  Not to sit behind and lob shells over like a USN Cruiser, but using the island to shield one of your sides.  Doing that cuts off whole swathes of the map that enemies can use to try to get flank shots on you.  But do be careful of using that tactic in a CV game, especially if the enemy CV has AP Bombers.  CV users will use the blind spot that the island causes as an approach avenue to get in close and drop AP Bombs on you.  AP Bombs LOVE Moskva.  Below is an example of a Moskva using an island to cover its side, but he made the mistake of doing this in a CV game with Enterprise, who has fantastic AP Dive Bombers.  The video link below is time stamped to where Eurobeat is attacking the Moskva, but it it's early on.  15 seconds mark if it doesn't immediately take you there.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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22 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Moskva is pretty good in bow tanking / angling in, but there's limitations to that.

 

Though she has a 50mm deck and a considerable 50mm icebreaker in the lower half of her bow, the upper half of the bow is still 25mm.  That can still get Pen'ed easy by an unlucky shot.

 

There is also the matter that there are HE shells that will Pen 50mm armor, i.e. High Tier German CAs, and RN CAs with 234mm guns (Premium VIII Cheshire, Tech Tree IX Drake and X Goliath).  Hindenburg IMO is a significant concern.  Though the German Cruier HE shells have low HE alpha damage, Hindy has 12 guns and can be spec'ed to fire at 8.6 second reload before AR is kicking in.  Couple that with her high pen, that 50mm armor becomes irrelevant to Hindenburg.  RN BBs also have a penchant for using HE a lot, so things like Lion, Conqueror, and Thunderer firing their Mega HE shells will sh*t on you.

 

Moskva can capably tank but understand that while she has a healthy 65k HP pool, that's not going to matter against some of her HE focused opponents out there.  If someone insists on firing AP only against you, you're fine, but decent players will switch shells.  Meanwhile, actual BBs with thick deck armor like Yamato, Kremlin, GK, etc. have 100k+ HP.  They also have straight up 32mm bows.

 

Bow reversing works if the reds aren't pushing hard, but if they're surging forward you're in big trouble if ships are off to your side and are starting to get favorable angles.  The better thing I found out late with her is to recognize when a position is becoming untenable early on and bail before things are focused on you.

 

She's a great ship, I respect Moskva as an opposing ship, but I never felt comfortable with her due to her BB concealment, monstrous size, even more monstrous citadel, and BB-like maneuverability.  Just like with BBs, you have to be careful when you use bow on, angling tactics.  Resorting to it by default may not be a good choice depending on the threats in the area.  If I wanted a ship that sails like a Battleship, has BB conealment, then I'll just play a BB, get BB HP levels, and BB armor.

 

Something to help you out that I've seen some Moskva users do is use islands.  Not to sit behind and lob shells over like a USN Cruiser, but using the island to shield one of your sides.  Doing that cuts off whole swathes of the map that enemies can use to try to get flank shots on you.  But do be careful of using that tactic in a CV game, especially if the enemy CV has AP Bombers.  CV users will use the blind spot that the island causes as an approach avenue to get in close and drop AP Bombs on you.  AP Bombs LOVE Moskva.  Below is an example of a Moskva using an island to cover its side, but he made the mistake of doing this in a CV game with Enterprise, who has fantastic AP Dive Bombers.  The video link below is time stamped to where Eurobeat is attacking the Moskva, but it it's early on.  15 seconds mark if it doesn't immediately take you there.

 

Thank you for such a good detailed explanation! I really appreciate it.

I'm a BB main and the tankiness of Moskva makes it very appealing. It looks like a BB that sacrificed some HP for a radar. Have you had any success playing Moskva as a BB?

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3 minutes ago, Whitebuster said:

Thank you for such a good detailed explanation! I really appreciate it.

I'm a BB main and the tankiness of Moskva makes it very appealing. It looks like a BB that sacrificed some HP for a radar. Have you had any success playing Moskva as a BB?

I haven't played her as much because as I said, I didn't like how she is.  I felt more comfortable in Tier VII Schors than I ever did with the later RU Cruisers.  What I provided was just the harsh lessons I learned from the time I did put in with her, as well as seeing her in action.  Either spectating a match, or me as a ship opposing her.

 

Hang around a bit though, there's bound to be someone that uses her a lot more with better success, so wait for their input.  I was merely providing some worst case situations where her tankiness isn't quite as good as advertised.

 

I know people sometimes use the joke like "Battleship" Moskva or "Battleship" Hindenburg, but make no mistake, they are still Cruisers and do not have that staying power of a true Battleship.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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If you go bow in and your flank loses it's hard to get out.

You can also turn around and reverse at the enemies while angling enough to fire your front guns. It makes it easy to disengage, but harder to chase the enemies if your flank wins.

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23 minutes ago, WernerHerzdog said:

If you go bow in and your flank loses it's hard to get out.

That was a big problem I ran into when I got her.  The previous version of Islands of Ice, I got caught out in the open in the eastern part of the map.  The flank in the south was collapsing and I had enemies to the west of me, aiming at me.  In a more normal Cruiser with reasonable concealment like USN & IJN Cruisers, you can hold fire and "go dark" and get the hell out of there, save the ship.  But with Moskva's BB concealment, you can't.  And if you try to turn, you're dead because people will shoot her sides.  She's a very large ship and though she's strong frontally, she's IMO, worse than Minotaur if caught on the sides.  Minotaur is squishy, but she's not monstrously large.  Moskva's sides are so big, it's impossible to miss her.

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its best to reverse and angle so you can use all 3 guns as the dpm is already mediocre but as you are reversed it means you can get away and not expose your delicate sides, even a gentle breeze across the side dev strikes moskva and stalins.

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