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Gunga_Dinner

Match Making, Queue Dumps, Divisions, Ranked, and Random Battles

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Hello all.

I was just in a 9v9 queue dump on the Trap map.  The battle lasted 10 minutes.  I enjoyed it and there were several 'clencher' moments.

The reason for this post?  I often see mention of divisions and ranked out players as possible considerations for 'balancing' MM or used as examples of showing how MM stacks one team over the other.  In this particular battle, at the start, it would've appeared that everything was against the fleet I was in.  Eight of the nine red fleet players had participated in Ranked Sprint, five had ranked out, AND they had a division.  The green fleet had only four Ranked Sprint players, three of whom ranked out, and no division.  To be fair, I hadn't noticed any of that until the post battle screens though.

The battle started and out team showed remarkable teamwork for a random battle.  There was no bickering, there was no armchair Admiral trying to tell everyone what to do.  All the Captains simply worked together and we meshed well.  Both sides pushed to the caps and contested them with planes buzzing around.  It was nip and tuck, but once the red fleet lost A and C caps, they quickly scattered and were steadily gunned down until they were no more.

This is just a single example, but I post it to show that random is random and Ranked rank nor Divisions doesn't always mean one team has an advantage over the other.

Keep your powder dry Captains!

Ranked2.thumb.jpg.1f372aa3e853dec94203e04795a2c68d.jpg

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Hahaha. No. 

I've twice collected large runs of data on this, once almost 800 games. Essentially, the side with the preponderance of players who have achieved low Rank has a 60% chance of winning. Ditto for the side with one more division.  What counts is not a single data point like this which is a common occurrence, but multiple data points over time. 

If divisions don't matter, why do people have much higher win rates divved than not? Why div at all? The answer is, of course, that divisions do matter.

Congrats on a well fought game. 

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18 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Hahaha. No. 

I've twice collected large runs of data on this, once almost 800 games. Essentially, the side with the preponderance of players who have achieved low Rank has a 60% chance of winning. Ditto for the side with one more division.  What counts is not a single data point like this which is a common occurrence, but multiple data points over time. 

If divisions don't matter, why do people have much higher win rates divved than not? Why div at all? The answer is, of course, that divisions do matter.

Congrats on a well fought game. 

Thank you.  I agree a single battle doesn't prove much of anything, but people say words like always etc. and you seldom see people post from the opposing view point so I thought I would.

I don't believe Divisions don't matter, but nor do I believe they mean an automatic victory.  This season of Ranked Sprint perhaps has the most relevance to Random skills since it is 12v12, but even so...shrug.

I can think of several reasons for both your why division questions.  People with higher win rates perhaps division because they take the game more seriously and want to be in battles with same minded people.  Why Division at all?  Cause you're playing with clan mates, cause you want to voice instead of type, because you're being given pointers from another player, because you want to make sure there are planes to shoot down in every battle, and the list goes on.

Just because, this was my next battle, fought on Tears:

Ranked3.thumb.jpg.399e73342e75e9f58332fe40c7753aee.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Just because, this was my next battle, fought on Tears:

Ranked3.thumb.jpg.399e73342e75e9f58332fe40c7753aee.jpg

Ouch. Battles like that suck. Just got out of one, on losing end. 

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39 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

Ouch. Battles like that suck. Just got out of one, on losing end. 

Their Yammy either disconnected or gave up half way through the battle.  The Buffalo yolo'd into B, the Chappy hugged an island so close he couldn't shoot and was perma spotted by the kidd.  The Roon charged the Ibuki, Alabama and Amagi and then turned broadside to all three.  I didn't notice their divisioned ships at all.

And my third battle, this one on Northern Lights, and again the green fleet had fewer and less ranked players.

Ranked4.thumb.jpg.76e4cf35a37a4239d1a7d2061a5050ce.jpg

The Budyonny, Faragut, and Guepard all parked at the island near A and sat there permaspotted me and ground down by my teammates.  The BBs all huddled in the middle of the map less the Masshole who made an end round the map at C and was out of the battle the first half.

That is three battles in a row where the team with less and lower ranked players have won and the divisions didn't seem to sway the battle one way or the other.

My point is that you can't just look at the teams from the start and decide you've already lost and blame MM for it.  If you go in thinking you've already lost and you give up, you're just making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Do your best, fight your best, and fight until the battle is over. 

Edited by Gunga_Dinner

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In fact...  Going back to my two previous battles this morning:

Another victory for the fleet with fewer/lower ranked sprint Captains.

Ranked5.thumb.jpg.dc692ee6bcb7e064f21f73c0fb645ce5.jpg

In fact, my only loss so far today was this:

Ranked6.thumb.jpg.c865d385da9a99fd0ed2d9c8ad15525d.jpg

Where not only did we have the better ranked sprint Captains, we had a division of ranked out Captains.

 

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the number of players div'ed per team should be equal... even wg learned this lesson in their other games... why they didn't bring that here I don't know...

the only time I saw them respond on here was that, next game maybe your team would have all the divs and it will balance out over time... 

that is not the point...

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2 hours ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Hello all.

I was just in a 9v9 queue dump on the Trap map.  The battle lasted 10 minutes.  I enjoyed it and there were several 'clencher' moments.

The reason for this post?  I often see mention of divisions and ranked out players as possible considerations for 'balancing' MM or used as examples of showing how MM stacks one team over the other.  In this particular battle, at the start, it would've appeared that everything was against the fleet I was in.  Eight of the nine red fleet players had participated in Ranked Sprint, five had ranked out, AND they had a division.  The green fleet had only four Ranked Sprint players, three of whom ranked out, and no division.  To be fair, I hadn't noticed any of that until the post battle screens though.

The battle started and out team showed remarkable teamwork for a random battle.  There was no bickering, there was no armchair Admiral trying to tell everyone what to do.  All the Captains simply worked together and we meshed well.  Both sides pushed to the caps and contested them with planes buzzing around.  It was nip and tuck, but once the red fleet lost A and C caps, they quickly scattered and were steadily gunned down until they were no more.

This is just a single example, but I post it to show that random is random and Ranked rank nor Divisions doesn't always mean one team has an advantage over the other.

Keep your powder dry Captains!

Ranked2.thumb.jpg.1f372aa3e853dec94203e04795a2c68d.jpg

Congrats on working together and getting the win.

I can't tell you enough how little value getting to rank 1 in Sprint impacts a random game. I've seen a ton of bad players with the rank 1 next to their names currently in randoms.

Now if they have the clan battle Hurricane or Typhoon colors in their clan name that's a different story.

 

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1 hour ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

Congrats on working together and getting the win.

I can't tell you enough how little value getting to rank 1 in Sprint impacts a random game. I've seen a ton of bad players with the rank 1 next to their names currently in randoms.

Now if they have the clan battle Hurricane or Typhoon colors in their clan name that's a different story.

 

Teamwork is definitely overpowered!  Wish it happened more often.  Who doesn't like to be carried?

@Taichunger I ended up fighting 10 battles this morning.  The end result?  The team with the better/more Ranked Sprint players won 30% of the battles.  There were no battles with an equal distribution of Ranked Sprint players.

@SKurj perhaps there simply weren't enough divisions in queue at the appropriate tier at the time.  I would rather have a battle than wait longer for the same number of divisions per side.

 

Oddly, none of my battles seem to have contributed to my clan's Naval Battle preparation.

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10 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Teamwork is definitely overpowered!  Wish it happened more often.  Who doesn't like to be carried?

@Taichunger I ended up fighting 10 battles this morning.  The end result?  The team with the better/more Ranked Sprint players won 30% of the battles.  There were no battles with an equal distribution of Ranked Sprint players.

@SKurj perhaps there simply weren't enough divisions in queue at the appropriate tier at the time.  I would rather have a battle than wait longer for the same number of divisions per side.

 

Oddly, none of my battles seem to have contributed to my clan's Naval Battle preparation.

I hear ya, and that is likely the reasoning wg will give for not balancing the number of players div'ed.  There may or may not be the server population to do it in wows though at least in NA, wows isn't too terribly far behind tanks...  in my experience it is more common to see imbalanced number of div'ed players in games than equal, and wg admitted they do not balance by number in wows...

I often find mm is too quick... sometimes I don't get a chance to change my mind because i forgot flags for example.. I can't click fast enough to prevent being tossed into a game...  I don't know if div'ed players already face a longer wait. (i never div)

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Everyone knows this is an issue, and it is exploited. People div to increase their chances of winning.

Yet the powers that be continue to keep their heads in the sand.

Also, the screen shots are reflective of the state of the game--STOMP NATION.

 

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1 minute ago, Lt_Newcastle said:

Everyone knows this is an issue, and it is exploited. People div to increase their chances of winning.

Yet the powers that be continue to keep their heads in the sand.

Also, the screen shots are reflective of the state of the game--STOMP NATION.

 

not really an exploit...   any 2 or 3 players in constant communication and working together will have an impact on the game... even if they are terrible at the game it will increase their impact even a little bit.

All wg can really do is to balance the number of div'ed players per team, or toss divs altogether and they will never do the latter...  

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I believe divs as a whole are balanced between sides, in that each team will have no more than a 1 div advantage.  Now, that means the div as a whole, not the amount of people in that div.  You can have 3 divs on each side, while at the same time you only have 6 people in divs on one side, and 9 on the other.  It looks as the div as 1 unit, regardless of how many people are in it.

Edited by Old_Baldy_One

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@SKurj @Lt_Newcastle @Old_Baldy_One

For what it is worth:

I went back and looked at the Divisions in today's 10 battles.  In those 10 battles, the was a single battle with no divisions, two battles with an equal number of divisions and seven battles where one side had a division and the other didn't.

In the seven battles where one side had a division and the other did not, the side with the Division won twice and lost five times.

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Just now, Gunga_Dinner said:

@SKurj @Lt_Newcastle @Old_Baldy_One

For what it is worth:

I went back and looked at the Divisions in today's 10 battles.  In those 10 battles, the was a single battle with no divisions, two battles with an equal number of divisions and seven battles where one side had a division and the other didn't.

In the seven battles where one side had a division and the other did not, the side with the Division won twice and lost five times.

While it does not guarantee a win obviously it still improves their chances.

WoT used to allow differing number of platooned players per team...  wg saw the spreadsheets which indicated the potential imbalance so corrected it.

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@SKurj

MM FTW!!!  I just see so many complaints about MM that I thought I'd try and poat something more objective.  Thank you for your thoughts.

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