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cerich67

newish player, bit frustrated

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So, with some time on hands, started playing, dropped some cash and enjoyed the game and learning at first.

However, once I got a Vlll DD premium it seems that the majority of my randoms have dropped me in with iX and X ships to play against. OK..whatever right? That said,  between getting slapped by the CV's in 2-3 runs (and yes, I have learned to turn off aa), and can stick close to BB/C who then get upset that I am not scouting, but when do scout they often hang back so far that they leave me completely exposed to CV aircraft, or let me take the beating and kill steal) or pegged by RDF/radar, then dealing with the IX/X ships that has a rate of fire that I can't even try and match, super close detection distances etc... Basically going up against at least half of the field with ships that have vastly superior capabilities.

Basically it seems that the choice is to spend the game trying to survive and doing very little in the battle or trying to engage and being dead pretty quickly.

It really seems like WOW has set things up that this level will either force you to buy a IX/X so you can compete somewhat or just being a fun target for those that have.

Yeah, I make some stupid decisions, yeah, I am not great and trying to learn, however this stage is sucking the fun out of the game.

Thoughts?

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13 minutes ago, cerich67 said:

buy a IX/X so you can compete somewhat

Buying premiums wont change what you're experiencing. 

Edited by Farm_Fresh_Eggs
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obviously my personal opinion is garbage. so i will remove it..  have fun all

 

Edited by tjaluk
i am garbage
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16 minutes ago, tjaluk said:

my advice after playing for 2 yrs is:

dont buy premiums.  95% of them are mediocre to bad.

quit while you are ahead.

run, run away.

i wish i had never spent a red cent on this game

my choices of premmies are warspite. scharnhorst. jean bart and nelson.

most tech tree ships are superior to the premiums

i hope you have more fun and success than i have

also, turn game chat off for peace of mind

 

Good advice.....keep getting hammered because of my low to mid 40 win rate .... :-(

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Yeah, just tried a game where I literally was located the second the game started being the most forward unit of my team on start, had two waves of aircraft straffing me within 20 seconds and down to less than half health.

So basically, while the faster action of a DD could potentially be fun, they have skewed the game so hard against that it's worthless to play it seems

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12 minutes ago, cerich67 said:

Yeah, just tried a game where I literally was located the second the game started being the most forward unit of my team on start, had two waves of aircraft straffing me within 20 seconds and down to less than half health.

So basically, while the faster action of a DD could potentially be fun, they have skewed the game so hard against that it's worthless to play it seems

CV are fun and engaging game play! cv make games alot more interesting and create exciting new metas and strategies! - cv defenders.

you will learn if you are a DD in a cv game when you spawn you reverse otherwise you get cv taxing your hp.

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58 minutes ago, tjaluk said:

my advice after playing for 2 yrs is:

dont buy premiums.  95% of them are mediocre to bad.

quit while you are ahead.

run, run away.

i wish i had never spent a red cent on this game

my choices of premmies are warspite. scharnhorst. jean bart and nelson.

most tech tree ships are superior to the premiums

i hope you have more fun and success than i have

also, turn game chat off for peace of mind

also the most fun is at tier 5-7. you will notice the change of gameplay in tier 9-10.

there is no reward for racing to tier 10.  find a ship you enjoy playing and stick with it for a while.   

the fun is in the playing, not winning or advancing fast.  not all ships suit everyone.

Good luck.  

 

So much fake news here.

Most premiums are as good or better then techtree ships or not part of the techtree. They also offer a different playstyle.

There is a learning curve within the game, buying a T8+ premium as a newish player can lead to frustration. This is also based on a different Meta in higher tiers. 

Opposite to WoT, you can do damage to higher tier ships, so T8 vs T10 isn't as bad as WoT.

A long time ago, WoT had the philosophy, that a premium is better then the base tank of the same tier, but worse then the fully researched version. 

Here the ship is as least as good as the fully researched ship (yes, that's not true for all).

Examples

Warspite -> Queen Elizabeth 

The Warspite is a "real" BB, since she can depend on her AP shells. The later techtree QE was made with the RN HE spam meta in mind. 

Boise -> Helena

The Boise was considered the red haired stepchild when she hit the server. Less range then the Helena and a bit slower reload. But hey, you get RN superheal. 

Scharnhorst->Gneisenau

The first ship is the original. WG said, that they want to have a clean caliber progression, so they mage her the premium ship (and just forget about this when they add the RN BB). She is a very heavy cruiser but with less secondary and AA then a fully researched Gneisenau. Propably one of the beginner friendliest premium in game.

Anshan->Fushin

The Anshan is a quite good DD. Opposite to her techtree sister, she has regular torps (and a +50% free XP camo)

Shinonome->Fubuki

other kind of torpedos but an extra gun turret. 

Atago->Mogami

Atago is an excellent cruiser who passed the test of time. You also get a heal over the 5x3 155mm gun option.

Prinz Eugen->Hipper

Another example of a cruiser, that was meh and offered nothing over the techtree ship till they added a heal.

Mass/Alabama->NC

The first is maybe the best USN BB considering $ to credit earning. The Alabama came first, she lack the secondaries but, has a bit better AA and torpedo protection. And she is more in line with the usual USN BB captain builds. The NC is good, but those two are just better

T-61->Gaede

Think we don't even have to talk about who is the better boat.

 

I stop here, I have work to do.

 

Not all premiums suits all players. You may go through reviews to get an idea, LittleWhiteMouse do some of the most "scientific" ones.

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I find that playing as a DD its all about understanding  ur situation  awareness. Some DD have it easier when dealing with certain  issues that being able to disengage or dealing with a C.V. Being bottom tier can be annoying  especially  when playing a DD. But understanding the enemy movements and reacting to ship positions can help. No reason to rush to death if u know the enemy dd on ur  cap is better dpm or concealment than you. 

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35 minutes ago, ITZ_ACE_BABY said:

CV are fun and engaging game play! cv make games alot more interesting and create exciting new metas and strategies! - cv defenders.

you will learn if you are a DD in a cv game when you spawn you reverse otherwise you get cv taxing your hp.

So true and now with Subs coming into the game you can be located from above the water and below it!

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2 hours ago, Farm_Fresh_Eggs said:

Buying premiums wont change what you're experiencing. 

But the point is WG makes players think it will.

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3 hours ago, cerich67 said:

So, with some time on hands, started playing, dropped some cash and enjoyed the game and learning at first.

However, once I got a Vlll DD premium it seems that the majority of my randoms have dropped me in with iX and X ships to play against. OK..whatever right? That said,  between getting slapped by the CV's in 2-3 runs (and yes, I have learned to turn off aa), and can stick close to BB/C who then get upset that I am not scouting, but when do scout they often hang back so far that they leave me completely exposed to CV aircraft, or let me take the beating and kill steal) or pegged by RDF/radar, then dealing with the IX/X ships that has a rate of fire that I can't even try and match, super close detection distances etc... Basically going up against at least half of the field with ships that have vastly superior capabilities.

Basically it seems that the choice is to spend the game trying to survive and doing very little in the battle or trying to engage and being dead pretty quickly.

It really seems like WOW has set things up that this level will either force you to buy a IX/X so you can compete somewhat or just being a fun target for those that have.

Yeah, I make some stupid decisions, yeah, I am not great and trying to learn, however this stage is sucking the fun out of the game.

Thoughts?

 

So, I think there isnt a really simple answer to your situation - how to perform well in a DD at high tier facing an enemy with CV, radar and RPF spotting.  

I am not a DD main so you should definitely do what they say instead.

However, I would deal with the situation is along the following lines: 

  • My primary objective is to stay alive as long as I can - if I can survive to late battle, I could be quite useful. 
  • My primary goal is to spot the enemy for my team to shoot at, rather than doing large amounts of damage myself. 
  • If I am a gunboat like the Loyang, I will seek battle with an enemy torpedo boat if I have close support, otherwise I will use my ship (or in the case of a Loyang, also my sonar) to spot enemy torps well before they hit my teammates. 
    • If a torpboat, I will not seek battle with the enemy destroyers; instead I will stay with my team until mid battle (due to CV spotting), then try to flank where the enemy is camping behind an island and torp them. 
    • If the enemy has higher tier gunboats, regardless of whether I am a gunboat or a torpboat, I do not seek battle and I run away & smoke up if battle finds me.  Also, I stick a bit closer to my team.  
  • Early battle, I will stick to my team like glue - at least 4km ahead of a ship with useful AA, and no more than 8km ahead so if the enemy CV's planes come for me I immediately run back into cover. 
    • If I am on the flank where the enemy CV is less active, I will push forward more to spot/engage in DD duel/accelerate my timeline for torping enemy campers, depending if I am a gunboat or torpboat DD. 
  • None of the above doesnt mean I shy away from taking some calculated risks.  If I feel that my flank is open, I may try to take a cap.  But I definitely will not die for a cap - in these circumstances, I expect I will require at least three separate attempts to have a decent chance to take a cap.  For example: 
    • a) start capping, get radared - bail immediately; as such its important not to start a cap being bow-on to the enemy, as it will take too long to bail when radared. 
    • b) after 30 seconds, move towards cap again, expect to get spotted by CV and have to smoke up and/or run back to my team for AA support (taking damage all the way from both the CV and enemy ships, because everyone ought to shoot a spotted destroyer). 
    • c) move towards cap again and encounter enemy DD - almost certainly with more HP than me or otherwise outclasses me - bail again towards my team and try to smoke up or otherwise break ling of sight. Enemy radar may be up again by this point (partciularly if they have more than 1 radar ship).  
    • d) Try again...  but always before trying, make sure you have an exit strategy planned (ie, if I get radared run to island on left; if enemy DD then run towards friendly on right, etc) so you can immediately execute the plan when it all goes wrong, instead of thinking up something on the spot like a deer in the headlights.  
  • Late battle, look for opportunities to: 
    • Take unguarded caps.  This can be harder with a CV present, but often by this point CVs are trying to farm damage of lonely, low HP friendlies so they could be focused far away from the cap points.  This provides an opportunity. 
    • Torpedo lonely battleships that are moving towards you - whether in a torpboat or a gunboat, the lonely battleship is the best food.  This is realistically the first opportunity you have to actually do damage this battle - savour it, but dont screw it up and make certain not to die for the chance.  
  • Throughout the battle, maintain contant vigilance (via the Minimap) of: 
    • Where the enemy radar cruisers are likely to be, or last known to be.  
    • Where the enemy CV's planes currently are, and where their general/primary area of operation will be (CVs can roam across the whole map, but tend to like striking ships on the side where they spawned.  If you are on the 'free' side, take more risks - if you are on the 'danger' side, camp more with team so the enemy CV keeps trying to strike you and shred their planes in the process, instead of nailing you for free.  
  • Hopefully in these shenanigans, you've managed to spot some enemy targets for your team to actually shoot at.  I personally dont maintain much focus on this, but I will tag an enemy radar cruiser with the F3 button to encourage people to shoot at it if I wont die taking my eye off the ball. 

 

I hope these things help.  See also the second post in this thread for some suggestions for general improvements to map awareness (under Section 3) and some good guides for future reference (under Section 4). 

Also, I agree with others about the premium ships - just because you have a premium ship doesnt give you a tactical advantage.  Some premium ships are stronger, some are about the same, and some are weaker than their tech tree equivalents.  The first post in the thread linked above might help you pick a premium ship that is right for you; however, as a general rule of thumb buying a T8+ premium ship when you arent ready for it means you'll have a bad time, as you wont be familiar with the high tier gameplay like I outlined above.  You learn all of that gradually through mid tiers in a gentler way.  

Good luck!

Edited by UltimateNewbie
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3 hours ago, cerich67 said:

So, with some time on hands, started playing, dropped some cash and enjoyed the game and learning at first.
However, once I got a Vlll DD premium it seems that the majority of my randoms have dropped me in with iX and X ships to play against.

Yeah, I make some stupid decisions, yeah, I am not great and trying to learn, however this stage is sucking the fun out of the game.
Thoughts?

What jumped out at me immediately when I read your post is this...you are complaining about having a hard time in a Tier 8 DD against Tier 10's, and your forum profile shows you have played 1,000 games.

Destroyers require a lot of experience to play at high tiers.  As you have found out, they have a low health pool so if you don't play them wisely you don't last long. I am in no way trying to insult you by saying this, but I doubt you have the experience to be successful with a Tier 8 destroyer, yet.

When I started playing, I didn't buy a high tier premium ship and jump right into top tier play.  I didn't race up to high tiers in a single tech tree line.  What I did was start with several ship types in both nations (there were only US and IJN lines, back then).  Playing all of them spread my gaming time out and slowed my progression up the tiers.  As a result, by the time I reached Tier 8, I was well experienced, had a firm grasp on game mechanics, and did respectably well.

Buying premium ships at tiers that are above your experience level can result in frustration, and that appears to me to be what is going on in your case.

Slow down; play lower tiers for a while.  At Tier 10 gameplay, every gimmick in the game is available to everyone, and you are expected to be proficeint with all of it to play well.  Work your way up the tiers more slowly so you are gradually exposed to those gimmicks (i.e. radar, lethal CV attacks, etc) and can learn them at lower tier levels, rather than diving in to their maximum effects.

Edited by desmo_2
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52 minutes ago, desmo_2 said:

What jumped out at me immediately when I read your post is this...you are complaining about having a hard time in a Tier 8 DD against Tier 10's, and your forum profile shows you have played 1,000 games.

Destroyers require a lot of experience to play at high tiers.  As you have found out, they have a low health pool so if you don't play them wisely you don't last long. I am in no way trying to insult you by saying this, but I doubt you have the experience to be successful with a Tier 8 destroyer, yet.

When I started playing, I didn't buy a high tier premium ship and jump right into top tier play.  I didn't race up to high tiers in a single tech tree line.  What I did was start with several ship types in both nations (there were only US and IJN lines, back then).  Playing all of them spread my gaming time out and slowed my progression up the tiers.  As a result, by the time I reached Tier 8, I was well experienced, had a firm grasp on game mechanics, and did respectably well.

Buying premium ships at tiers that are above your experience level can result in frustration, and that appears to me to be what is going on in your case.

Slow down; play lower tiers for a while.  At Tier 10 gameplay, every gimmick in the game is available to everyone, and you are expected to be proficeint with all of it to play well.  Work your way up the tiers more slowly so you are gradually exposed to those gimmicks (i.e. radar, lethal CV attacks, etc) and can learn them at lower tier levels, rather than diving in to their maximum effects.

This is excellent advice.

1000 battles and you think you know the game?  Umm...nope.

Buy a premium and think you will have better results?  Umm...nope.

Play a tier 8 against stiff competition and think the game is at fault and not you?  Umm...nope.

OP, this game of ours is a chess match.  Take it slow, don’t over-extend, watch for gaps/opportunities in your opponents play.

If you don’t have your mini map at the largest setting or next to largest setting....then make that change.

If you aren’t watching that mini map at least 60% of the time...then do so.

If you don’t think you have the time to watch that mini map...then you are playing too fast and too carelessly.

 

And PLEASE...you joined a clan.  Division up with your clan mates and learn from them.  Your game will improve and your win rate will improve.  

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I think the OP needs a bit more seasoning in random play. He needs to better understands DD game mechanics like spotting, aiming torpedoes, how to use smoke, reading the mini map, etc.

Additionally, he seems to have skipped over DDs at tiers 4-5-6 which is where you really learn to play. I'm really not understanding why he would go from T2/3 UK DD immediately up to T7 Jervis when game play changes significantly and mistakes are punished quickly.

My advice would be to spend a lot of time at T4/5 and learn more about DD play. I would also suggest trying some of the other lines (US, Japan, Russia) to decide whether he likes torp DDs or gunboat DDs better.

Once you can increase your damage output, XP and survivability then move up to T6 and so on. Don't make it a race to get to T10 without being able to enjoy the game.

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7 minutes ago, Sabene said:

This is excellent advice.

1000 battles and you think you know the game?  Umm...nope.

Buy a premium and think you will have better results?  Umm...nope.

Play a tier 8 against stiff competition and think the game is at fault and not you?  Umm...nope.

OP, this game of ours is a chess match.  Take it slow, don’t over-extend, watch for gaps/opportunities in your opponents play.

If you don’t have your mini map at the largest setting or next to largest setting....then make that change.

If you aren’t watching that mini map at least 60% of the time...then do so.

If you don’t think you have the time to watch that mini map...then you are playing too fast and too carelessly.

 

And PLEASE...you joined a clan.  Division up with your clan mates and learn from them.  Your game will improve and your win rate will improve.  

Ummm... let's address your reply

I never said I think I know the game, quite the opposite actually

I never said that buying a premium made me think i would get better results as far as my gameplay, I was postulating that possibly buying one would even the playing field considering how often a tier 8 gets matched up againts 9 and 10 tier ships that have some clear advantages.

Umm, the game is matching tier 8 against higher tiers, that it is stiff of course is to be expected, is the capablities of a tier 8 vs a tier 10 not different? Would two exactly equal players not have to depend on luck to prevail agints the other in a ship 2 tiers above? 

Good advice on play it slower

Done

Starting to

Sometimes

as time allows I hope to

 

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10 minutes ago, 1SneakyDevil said:

I think the OP needs a bit more seasoning in random play. He needs to better understands DD game mechanics like spotting, aiming torpedoes, how to use smoke, reading the mini map, etc.

Additionally, he seems to have skipped over DDs at tiers 4-5-6 which is where you really learn to play. I'm really not understanding why he would go from T2/3 UK DD immediately up to T7 Jervis when game play changes significantly and mistakes are punished quickly.

My advice would be to spend a lot of time at T4/5 and learn more about DD play. I would also suggest trying some of the other lines (US, Japan, Russia) to decide whether he likes torp DDs or gunboat DDs better.

Once you can increase your damage output, XP and survivability then move up to T6 and so on. Don't make it a race to get to T10 without being able to enjoy the game.

actually jumped tier 2/3 to haida, because ... Canadian, ex RCN (the real one) and my grandfather happened to command two of Haida's sister ships. That may have been a jump.. LOL

Then got the tier 8..because why not and was in more over my head.. 

The Jervis, just playing around, not many games with her yet

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1 hour ago, UltimateNewbie said:

So, I think there isnt a really simple answer to your situation - how to perform well in a DD at high tier facing an enemy with CV, radar and RPF spotting.  

I am not a DD main so you should definitely do what they say instead.

However, I would deal with the situation is along the following lines: 

  • My primary objective is to stay alive as long as I can - if I can survive to late battle, I could be quite useful. 
  • My primary goal is to spot the enemy for my team to shoot at, rather than doing large amounts of damage myself. 
  • If I am a gunboat like the Loyang, I will seek battle with an enemy torpedo boat if I have close support, otherwise I will use my ship (or in the case of a Loyang, also my sonar) to spot enemy torps well before they hit my teammates. 
    • If a torpboat, I will not seek battle with the enemy destroyers; instead I will stay with my team until mid battle (due to CV spotting), then try to flank where the enemy is camping behind an island and torp them. 
    • If the enemy has higher tier gunboats, regardless of whether I am a gunboat or a torpboat, I do not seek battle and I run away & smoke up if battle finds me.  Also, I stick a bit closer to my team.  
  • Early battle, I will stick to my team like glue - at least 4km ahead of a ship with useful AA, and no more than 8km ahead so if the enemy CV's planes come for me I immediately run back into cover. 
    • If I am on the flank where the enemy CV is less active, I will push forward more to spot/engage in DD duel/accelerate my timeline for torping enemy campers, depending if I am a gunboat or torpboat DD. 
  • None of the above doesnt mean I shy away from taking some calculated risks.  If I feel that my flank is open, I may try to take a cap.  But I definitely will not die for a cap - in these circumstances, I expect I will require at least three separate attempts to have a decent chance to take a cap.  For example: 
    • a) start capping, get radared - bail immediately; as such its important not to start a cap being bow-on to the enemy, as it will take too long to bail when radared. 
    • b) after 30 seconds, move towards cap again, expect to get spotted by CV and have to smoke up and/or run back to my team for AA support (taking damage all the way from both the CV and enemy ships, because everyone ought to shoot a spotted destroyer). 
    • c) move towards cap again and encounter enemy DD - almost certainly with more HP than me or otherwise outclasses me - bail again towards my team and try to smoke up or otherwise break ling of sight. Enemy radar may be up again by this point (partciularly if they have more than 1 radar ship).  
    • d) Try again...  but always before trying, make sure you have an exit strategy planned (ie, if I get radared run to island on left; if enemy DD then run towards friendly on right, etc) so you can immediately execute the plan when it all goes wrong, instead of thinking up something on the spot like a deer in the headlights.  
  • Late battle, look for opportunities to: 
    • Take unguarded caps.  This can be harder with a CV present, but often by this point CVs are trying to farm damage of lonely, low HP friendlies so they could be focused far away from the cap points.  This provides an opportunity. 
    • Torpedo lonely battleships that are moving towards you - whether in a torpboat or a gunboat, the lonely battleship is the best food.  This is realistically the first opportunity you have to actually do damage this battle - savour it, but dont screw it up and make certain not to die for the chance.  
  • Throughout the battle, maintain contant vigilance (via the Minimap) of: 
    • Where the enemy radar cruisers are likely to be, or last known to be.  
    • Where the enemy CV's planes currently are, and where their general/primary area of operation will be (CVs can roam across the whole map, but tend to like striking ships on the side where they spawned.  If you are on the 'free' side, take more risks - if you are on the 'danger' side, camp more with team so the enemy CV keeps trying to strike you and shred their planes in the process, instead of nailing you for free.  
  • Hopefully in these shenanigans, you've managed to spot some enemy targets for your team to actually shoot at.  I personally dont maintain much focus on this, but I will tag an enemy radar cruiser with the F3 button to encourage people to shoot at it if I wont die taking my eye off the ball. 

I hope these things help.  See also the second post in this thread for some suggestions for general improvements to map awareness (under Section 3) and some good guides for future reference (under Section 4). 

Also, I agree with others about the premium ships - just because you have a premium ship doesnt give you a tactical advantage.  Some premium ships are stronger, some are about the same, and some are weaker than their tech tree equivalents.  The first post in the thread linked above might help you pick a premium ship that is right for you; however, as a general rule of thumb buying a T8+ premium ship when you arent ready for it means you'll have a bad time, as you wont be familiar with the high tier gameplay like I outlined above.  You learn all of that gradually through mid tiers in a gentler way.  

Good luck!

Well said.........    But, after 15K battles it begs to ask the question:  Is ^^^^ any fun or is it time well spent?   The answer is no.  As a DD main, your well written response is the exact reason I don't play DD's anymore....  Nor, most everything else.  There isn't any value-added use of the limited time many have in a game that "just isn't any fun....."   Now, if they'd provide us a 100% effective mitigation to Radar........chaff/jamming/ARMs......and, effective AA that matches the +/-2 MM, I'd be back.   Till then, what's the point of constantly being someone else's fodder !!!  Being the last ship and all of that work;  unable to escape planes that regenerate and your damage doesn't nor can you fight back; just killed the game for a great many of us......... No.  I'd rather invest my few, precious hours in games that are actually fun...........  And, you can see our "retirement" in the vast increase of constant stomps........we all left for COOP and of late, other games, without uninstalling.....  You reap what you sow !  

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As a recovering potato, I can attest to the advice already given, but let me offer a couple of suggestions.

First, given the number of battles you have played, stay in ships at Tier 5 and below until your win rate and personal rating in most of those ships is at least average.  There is no way you are ready at this point in time to be driving a T8 DD.

You seem to be interested in becoming a DD main.  Run up the USA tech tree until you get the T4 Clemson and master it.  Clemson is one of the best DDs in the game at its tier, and T4 is 'protected' so you will not face any ships above T5.

Just because you are interested in driving DDs, play BBs and CLs so you learn their strengths and weaknesses.  That will help you understand what you need to do in your DD to both stay alive and kill the reds.

Play conservatively whenever you are bottom tier, and don't get overconfident when you are top tier.  I've been blapped too many time in a top tier CL by a bottom tier BB because of making that mistake.  :Smile_Default:

Most of all, play to have fun.  Winning is an important element to having fun, and helping your team win will add to the fun as well.  Good luck going forward, and hope to see you on my team soon.

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17 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

Well said.........    But, after 15K battles it begs to ask the question:  Is ^^^^ any fun or is it time well spent?   The answer is no.  As a DD main, your well written response is the exact reason I don't play DD's anymore....  Nor, most everything else.  There isn't any value-added use of the limited time many have in a game that "just isn't any fun....."   Now, if they'd provide us a 100% effective mitigation to Radar........chaff/jamming/ARMs......and, effective AA that matches the +/-2 MM, I'd be back.   Till then, what's the point of constantly being someone else's fodder !!!  Being the last ship and all of that work;  unable to escape planes that regenerate and your damage doesn't nor can you fight back; just killed the game for a great many of us......... No.  I'd rather invest my few, precious hours in games that are actually fun...........  And, you can see our "retirement" in the vast increase of constant stomps........we all left for COOP and of late, other games, without uninstalling.....  You reap what you sow !  

Well, sure - when you are bottom tier you do have to play more conservatively in order to win. 

When top tier, the Loyang is a brutal cap bully - it would be able to smack any T6 DD around, probably without being spotted at all as it uses its hydro offensively.  And its AA would be sufficient to give a T6 carrier pause.  

So yes, its swings and roundabouts.  But its also why I've largely given up on high tier battles and I play mid tiers, 5-7.  I've always found them much more fun and enjoyable - not because there is no/minimal radar, but because of the combination of chaos and skilled players makes it truly a mixed up battle.  

Coop, Operations, low tier and high tier randoms are all dull and reptitive.  Mid tier is where its at.  And there is nothing nicer than smacking a NC around in a Leander as well, so I dont mind getting up tiered as much.  

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I’d rather be a T8 DD than any other T8 ship besides maybe Roma. Torps are torps and stealth is stealth. Playing DD can be some of the most dynamic and rewarding gameplay in the game. I just ranked out in Marceau and it was intense. The ship you choose effects your style. If it has weak AA, you’re going to need smoke, fighter drops, and to stay out of radar range. This is why I lean toward the French even though they usually have weak AA. By being mobile you don’t really need the smoke and Marceau has good AA. I think T8 is a good place to learn dd if you already know all the other mechanics. T10s will just be better but if you dont know what to do with them the results will be the same.

Edited by KnifeInUrNeck
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I have been playing the game for about 6 months now. The way I see it:

DD's can be the most fun class to play, but are also the hardest class to play. And it is not even close.

Here are my two cents for someone having played around 1200 random games (EU and NA combined).

 

A few things I have picked up along the way:

  • LEARN TO USE THE MINIMAP!!! Make it as big as possible, and through the official modstation I have installed a few mods to enhance my mini-map, as well as giving me info about the weaponry of enemy ships.
  • In lower tiers, you learn to deal with enemy DD's and CV.
  • In T5 - 7 you also learn to deal with hydro.
  • T8 and up, radar and RPF get added. Assume EVERY DD at a minimum has RPF at that point.

 

  • Focus on staying alive.
  • Take your time

 

I now rarely play Randoms above T6; I do so on occasion, either by accident, or to get some missions done (and also see how I am progressing). It is worth it, IMHO. Realize that as it is, there seem to be quite a few good players who are now playing lower tiers more and more, because they have become more fun (and T9 and T10 are boring). There is a reason why many very good players are happy that next Ranked will be T7. Even though they know odds are there will be more bad and mediocre players around in those games.

 

Basically, at the start of the game you should be able to identify the hydro and radar-ships immediately. Watch videos and how-to-play guides.

 

  • In a CV game, it is the job of the CV player to spot DD's more so than it is yours! Unfortunately many CV drivers seem to be in it only to farm damage for themselves. Their power is spotting.
  • Ignore BB's yelling at you in CV games, especially if the enemy CV is active on your flank. And usually the ones yelling hardest are the ones who prefer to end the game with full HP, and barely venture south of the B-line, and hide behind islands.
  • Every DD line plays very differently from others. Make sure you are familiar with them from playing yourself (or having faced them enough) - know what they can and cannot do.
  • Also play other ship classes in near similar tiers, also to get an idea of what they can and cannot do.
  • Stay in T5 and T6 until you have at least a 10 pt captain to put on the ship. You desperately need CE to survive in higher tiers. If you do not have a 10 point captain for a T7+ ship, and do not have the Commander XP to get him to 10 points, play the ship in Co-op until he has 10 points.
  • Try and do more damage than your HP while still staying alive.

 

The way I approach it now - rouhgly since a few months:

  • Focus on getting to know your ship; if need be, spend some time in Co-op

 

Priorities in game (roughly in order):

  1. Use mini map
  2. Stay allive while spotting
  3. Use mini map
  4. Identify priority threats and targets
  5. Use mini map
  6. Deal more damage than your HP
  7. Use mini map and awareness (go out of bino-zoom and look around you)
  8. Try to take it to the enemy.
  9. Use mini map

 

Since counsciously trying to work on those things - the past three months - I like to think my level of play has improved quite a bit. I have seen the returns quite quickly:

 

  • A 122k game in Harekaze (T8 in a T8 match) where I survided until near the end with three fellow cruisers, and we almost pulled the game back from complete and total defeat. The first time where I felt I had a (for my standards) extremely good game, 1450 base XP in a loss.
  • Ending up - by accident - in a T9 Friesland in a T9 game with a 6pt captain, and no flags (thus 7.1 km concealment), no premium consumables. Also three radar cruisers in the game, and out DPM'ed and definitely outspotted by most enemy DD's. Alaska and Kronshadt (two of the radars) ended up on my flank anyway  In the end I did 44k damage, ending 5th on the team - I only survived for so long because of what I had picked up from watching better players, and focussing on the important things: Watch mini-map, focus on awareness. 
  • I now tend to end up in the middle or top of the team's rankings.

 

If need be, spend some time on Twitch looking at various streamers and how they play DD in game. Some are also very good at talking through a game if need be. Moreover, you tend to see different play styles, from rather defensive to very aggressive. Sometimes they also criticize DD play from others when in game themselves. Admittedly some of them take getting used to or are considered whiners and salty, but still. As I am from the EU, Twitch streamers I have watched and fairly regularly watch are:

 

- Flambass (EU); known for various stunts (up the middle on Two Brothers, Speshul divisions), but even then, look at how he plays those games. Also how (especially Two Brothers up the middle) he tends to talk through what random team-mates are doing when they go along up the middle. He tends to give team mates and enemies credits where credits are due in game. And on occasion he has brilliant potato moments (and will admit so when he does).

- Flamu (EU)

- Mr Gibbins (EU)

- StatsBloke (EU) who plans to start a "Zero to Hero" series (something of a beginner guide).

- Lord Zath (NA (does also do replay analysis))

- Wookie Legend (NA)

- Notser (NA)

- Keviseeb (NA), mostly for the laughs.

- iChase ((NA) also has a very good "how-to" series on youtube).

 

In some ways I would even give The Mighty Jingles (on Youtube) a shot, as there are often some hidden pointers in his comments.

Similarly to EU, there might also be a "How to" or "Replay analysis" channel on Discord for NA. I know EU has one, where the analysis tends to be done by players belonging to top clans (quite a few of them were active players in the top 8 clans in the latest KOTS EU tournament).

Edited by What_do_I_know

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am i reading this right....

new player buys way to high tier and runs into a steep learning curve?

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12 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Well, sure - when you are bottom tier you do have to play more conservatively in order to win. 

When top tier, the Loyang is a brutal cap bully - it would be able to smack any T6 DD around, probably without being spotted at all as it uses its hydro offensively.  And its AA would be sufficient to give a T6 carrier pause.  

So yes, its swings and roundabouts.  But its also why I've largely given up on high tier battles and I play mid tiers, 5-7.  I've always found them much more fun and enjoyable - not because there is no/minimal radar, but because of the combination of chaos and skilled players makes it truly a mixed up battle.  

Coop, Operations, low tier and high tier randoms are all dull and reptitive.  Mid tier is where its at.  And there is nothing nicer than smacking a NC around in a Leander as well, so I dont mind getting up tiered as much.  

 

Well, it all depends a bit on how you approach it. I have had some brilliant and extremely enjoyable Operations games with random squads.

Highlight: Completing Narai with a 3 DD, 4 Cruiser line-up, and getting 5 stars out of it. Completely random team mates, and first reaction of everyone was "O f***!" Luck was we had two (very) good DD players in a division, and because everyone was in that "O ****" mode, there was a lot of co-ordination through chat, and concentrated game play. 

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Your biggest mistake was picking DD's. They can be brutally hard to play. Especially since the game is broken when it comes to DD's. You have to deal with; impossibly nimble capital ships, guns that do about 200 average damage, virtually indefensible CV attacks, absolutely absurd radar/ hydro implementation, torps that are mediocre on most DD's and teams that don't support you. You have to learn the nuances of each boat. You don't play a Shima ( stealth torping) the same way you play a Kleber (gunning 90% of the time) for example. Each boat has it's niche. Finding it can be costly. 

Don't rush into capping, spotting or anything else that your teammates tell you to. Most of them are clueless when it comes to DD's. Keep an eye on the tactical situation (via the minimap), never think in the present moment, think at least 15 seconds ahead of now. If you're in a stealthy boat, stalk your prey like a puma. If you don't have strong AA, stay close to ships that do until later in the battle. Don't be afraid to run away then circle back to cap. Try to be aware of where the radar ships are.  Build your skill on a lower tier premium DD. One of my favorites is the Kamikaze R.  Don't be afraid to lauch 100 torps to score 1 hit - you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Don't worry about your WR. Contrary to what most people tell you, you don't have a lot of influence on WR in a DD (as opposed to a CV for example). The days of good DD players carrying potato teams have passed. 

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5 hours ago, cerich67 said:

So, with some time on hands, started playing, dropped some cash and enjoyed the game and learning at first.

However, once I got a Vlll DD premium it seems that the majority of my randoms have dropped me in with iX and X ships to play against. OK..whatever right? That said,  between getting slapped by the CV's in 2-3 runs (and yes, I have learned to turn off aa), and can stick close to BB/C who then get upset that I am not scouting, but when do scout they often hang back so far that they leave me completely exposed to CV aircraft, or let me take the beating and kill steal) or pegged by RDF/radar, then dealing with the IX/X ships that has a rate of fire that I can't even try and match, super close detection distances etc... Basically going up against at least half of the field with ships that have vastly superior capabilities.

Basically it seems that the choice is to spend the game trying to survive and doing very little in the battle or trying to engage and being dead pretty quickly.

It really seems like WOW has set things up that this level will either force you to buy a IX/X so you can compete somewhat or just being a fun target for those that have.

Yeah, I make some stupid decisions, yeah, I am not great and trying to learn, however this stage is sucking the fun out of the game.

Thoughts?

You went too fast and spent money to get to a tier you’re not prepared for - not singling you out, way too many people race to high tier play and most create a worse experience for everyone.

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