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Destroyer_KuroshioKai

Frustrations abound with the meta. Dont get mad, get even.

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I have been in the competitive community a while.  Not as long as some, but longer than most.  Each season one thing would hold true.  The meta was always a radioactive dumpster fire to deal with.  Because they were well thought out comps.  The cutting edge Hurricane teams most often set the meta, and other clans seeing how frustrating it is to play against, they inevitably adopt it as their own.  Personally I and my clan mates at CUTER tend to hold the opinion that matching the in meta comp exactly forces you to rely on the hope you can out skill or out luck your opponent.  Hope is not a good plan.  This is why you often see us running a counter meta comp.

So tonight I was playing with the guys at RBMK and we had been kicking around ideas about how to counter the Venezia heavy comps.  So we get to talking on a break about the strong and weak points of the Hak, 2x Stalingrad, and Venezia comp.  So we get to brain storming a counter comp on the fly taking advantage of the limited spotting an all CA comp has, the weaker cap control, and what a smoke heavy flank might do.  We ran a full smoke Somers, a LU smoke Minotaur, and Salem on our pushing flank, with a LU Moskva, 2x Venezia on the kiting flank with a Midway as our CV.  This game is what followed.  

Having WG fix your frustrations with a meta is not a good idea long term.  It limits the amount of comps you will see over the course of the season, and that is less content in the game.  Instead take 10 minutes or so and talk out the issues with your team.  It will bring the team closer together, and make things that much sweeter when you conquer your frustration.

Is there any comps you guys have found success beating the Venezia comps?

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allways interested in your topics.

Thanks for this thread.

.....

A couple of thoughts:

A couple HALLAND's to torp the Venezia. 

Or

A couple Hindies.

.....

What's your thought on 3 Puerto Rico's, 3 Stalins and A Kremlin?

 

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I need to run with this guy for a while. That was fantastic.

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2 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

allways interested in your topics.

Thanks for this thread.

.....

A couple of thoughts:

A couple HALLAND's to torp the Venezia. 

Or

A couple Hindies.

.....

What's your thought on 3 Puerto Rico's, 3 Stalins and A Kremlin?

 

I think AP is a bad way to tackle the Venezia issue.  They are so fast and nimble they can bounce most most of the AP unless you shoot the moment they turn out to shoot a full broadside.  Its why I like LU Moskva over Stalingrad.  You have much better HE DPM and fire chance.  Further I think a CV is completely superior to a BB.  The spotting alone is huge and a well played CV can dish out a ton of damage and prevent any low HP ship from escaping.  I think WG should have let the limit be 2x BB max or 1x BB 1x CV max.  Even then I still think the 1x CV tops the BB, but at least you are trading BB level of crossfire on a map.

Hindenburg with its huge superstructure tends to take a beating by Venezia.  Unless you can smoke it up and keep it concealed I think there are better options.  Smoking a Zao seems really intriguing if you dont need perma smoke, but I have concerns about the AA.  We ran a Mino just to make sure we had full smoke coverage if needed plus plenty of AA to protect the DD.  This is one of those comps, if the DD dies the game is lost.  Smolensk could be an option at longer ranges, but I like the Mino closer in and thats specifically how we wanted to fight.  If the shots were longer than 12-13km its probably best to just go dark and force the Stalingrads/Venezia/CV to spot you.  

10 minutes ago, Tyberius_D said:

I need to run with this guy for a while. That was fantastic.

I'm glad you liked it.

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5 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

We ran a full smoke Somers, a LU smoke Minotaur, and Salem on our pushing flank, with a LU Moskva, 2x Venezia on the kiting flank with a Midway as our CV. 

Was there a reason to use Midway instead of Hakuryu?

 

and I may look dum, but LU?

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4 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

I think AP is a bad way to tackle the Venezia issue.  They are so fast and nimble they can bounce most most of the AP unless you shoot the moment they turn out to shoot a full broadside.  Its why I like LU Moskva over Stalingrad.  You have much better HE DPM and fire chance.  Further I think a CV is completely superior to a BB.  The spotting alone is huge and a well played CV can dish out a ton of damage and prevent any low HP ship from escaping.  I think WG should have let the limit be 2x BB max or 1x BB 1x CV max.  Even then I still think the 1x CV tops the BB, but at least you are trading BB level of crossfire on a map.

Hindenburg with its huge superstructure tends to take a beating by Venezia.  Unless you can smoke it up and keep it concealed I think there are better options.  Smoking a Zao seems really intriguing if you dont need perma smoke, but I have concerns about the AA.  We ran a Mino just to make sure we had full smoke coverage if needed plus plenty of AA to protect the DD.  This is one of those comps, if the DD dies the game is lost.  Smolensk could be an option at longer ranges, but I like the Mino closer in and thats specifically how we wanted to fight.  If the shots were longer than 12-13km its probably best to just go dark and force the Stalingrads/Venezia/CV to spot you.  

I'm glad you liked it.

Beauty!!!  Love your 2nd smoke, the 'fish hook'!  Then you  close the trap...reminds me of the final defense of Little Round top by the 20th Maine.

Always love that you explain your way of thinking.

Thanks for the vid.

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53 minutes ago, Y_Nagato said:

and I may look dum, but LU?

Legendary Upgrade, aka Unique Upgrade. The Minotaur gets an enhanced smoke generator, but I don't have mine yet so I can't say if it's worth it. For some specific tactical situations, it might be; @Destroyer_KuroshioKai should be able to expand on that.

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16 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Legendary Upgrade, aka Unique Upgrade. The Minotaur gets an enhanced smoke generator, but I don't have mine yet so I can't say if it's worth it. For some specific tactical situations, it might be; @Destroyer_KuroshioKai should be able to expand on that.

Oh ok. I have that upgrade on my mino but I prefer to run radar. Yes it is quite memesque to do some 45 sec line of smokes.

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6 hours ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

Having WG fix your frustrations with a meta is not a good idea long term.  It limits the amount of comps you will see over the course of the season, and that is less content in the game.  Instead take 10 minutes or so and talk out the issues with your team.  It will bring the team closer together, and make things that much sweeter when you conquer your frustration.

+1

 

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1 hour ago, Y_Nagato said:

Was there a reason to use Midway instead of Hakuryu?

 

and I may look dum, but LU?

It’s what our cv main wanted to try.

Legendary upgrades.  Sorry I’m too use to abbreviations that.

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45 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Legendary Upgrade, aka Unique Upgrade. The Minotaur gets an enhanced smoke generator, but I don't have mine yet so I can't say if it's worth it. For some specific tactical situations, it might be; @Destroyer_KuroshioKai should be able to expand on that.

To expand on it it turns Minotaur into a huge vape machine.  Lots of smoke to use and I believe lowers the smoke firing  range a bit too.

 There are specific reasons why I would run Legendary on a ship or not. Had I taken my Gearing for example since I didn’t expect to be digging out DDs for my team the higher  torp and gun DPM without that LU would work better.

 You have to really think about what you are trying to do with a ship then make the best build for it.

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1 hour ago, Y_Nagato said:

Was there a reason to use Midway instead of Hakuryu?

 

and I may look dum, but LU?

I don't think any LU for CV's are 'working'. 

Personal choice perhaps, I reckon for whatever reason.

 

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Bad page

Edited by Y_Nagato

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1 minute ago, Y_Nagato said:

Yusuf was the strong men under Abd al- Malik of the Omeyyades and was the one that finished to fixed (modify) the text in 714.

 

and yes, thinking the Allah guided the hand of Muhammed is not a rational explanation. If a man write a “book”, chances are that he knew how to write. The idea that he did not is part of the cult to reinforce that the text is holy and cannot be criticized. 

That's an interesting context in which to discuss bucking the trend in a meta, but I fear it's far too politico-religious for the mods to let it survive long. :fish_panic:

22 minutes ago, Destroyer_KuroshioKai said:

You have to really think about what you are trying to do with a ship then make the best build for it.

Absolutely. It's to the point where I'm thinking that once I grab Hayate (for example), I should just stick her in my port and sit on her until she's copied across to my PTS (if they're still doing that), then play with slots 3 and 6 for a while before settling on them in the live server. I can see my intended use and your intended use being very different things; and while your advice is always very welcome, it's ultimately my responsibility to decide how I'm going to apply it to how I play IJN DD.

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That's an interesting context in which to discuss bucking the trend in a meta, but I fear it's far too politico-religious for the mods to let it survive long. :fish_panic:

You were faster than I could delete it, it was not suppose go come here but on an other forum haha

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1 hour ago, Y_Nagato said:

You were faster than I could delete it, it was not suppose go come here but on an other forum haha

Does this mean that someone on a religious discussion forum is wondering how an online 20th Century naval combat game fits into a debate on the early history of Islam? :Smile_trollface:

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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2 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Does this mean that someone on a religious discussion forum is wondering how an online 20th Century naval combat game fits into a debate on the early history of Islam? :Smile_trollface:

All hail our lord and savior Warspite!

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Just now, Y_Nagato said:

All hail our lord and savior Warspite!

But it was the Queen Elizabeth that did shore bombardment for the Gallipoli campaign (and the other BBs which did it are unfortunately not in the game), although I'm not completely sure that anyone ever saw it in Christian vs. Muslim terms (and certainly Ataturk after the war did everything he could to build goodwill between Turkey and its former enemies; the words on the Gallipoli memorial say all that needed to be said).

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30 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

But it was the Queen Elizabeth that did shore bombardment for the Gallipoli campaign (and the other BBs which did it are unfortunately not in the game), although I'm not completely sure that anyone ever saw it in Christian vs. Muslim terms (and certainly Ataturk after the war did everything he could to build goodwill between Turkey and its former enemies; the words on the Gallipoli memorial say all that needed to be said).

Thanks for bringing up the Ataturk’s inscription.  Learned something today. 

Edited by ORPBury

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I didn't get mad, or get even, I just got out.  

The meta in PVP is a big reason why I'm mainly a PVE player.  

 

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