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wildcat18

Tier 4-6 BB guns

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Are the American guns wonky? With Russian and German guns, as long as I do my part the guns do their job. It seems the American guns can be a crap shoot. Before you answer, for the most part i know when to use ap and when not too. Also, its not about the accuracy of the guns. My accuracy with all 3 nations fall between 35-40% but American damage is below the other 2 nations. Less full damage pens, less citadel hits? Not sure, just seems wonky with American guns.

Edited by wildcat18

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US BB guns in Tier IV-VI?

Yes, a lot are indeed wonky with the exception of certain ones.

 

Some Sigma values, FYI.  Sigma is basically the tendency of shots to go towards the center of your dispersion pattern.  The BB with the highest Sigma is Yamato at 2.1. 

1.8 I consider to be an okay BB Sigma value.

 

IV Wyoming 305mm x12:  1.5 Sigma - Atrocious.  Lots of guns but the accuracy is worthless.

V New York 356mm x10:  1.8 - Not bad actually.  1.8 is quite reasonable.  A decent compromise of rifle count, accuracy, gun size.  If only her armor was decent.

V Premium Texas:  See "New York."

VI New Mexico 356mm x12: 1.5  - See, "Wyoming."

VI Premiium Arizona 356mm x12:  1.8 - Well liked due to reliable guns.

VI Premium West Virginia 406mm x8:  1.8 - Not many rifles, the 1.8 Sigma is kind of iffy for only that many guns, but she's doing more than fine.

 

Keep in mind, Sigma isn't the End-All-Be-All value for reliable guns as other things can compensate.  Dispersion size, gun reload, amount of rifles, etc. can play a role.

 

New Mexico and Arizona actually share the same atrocious dispersion numbers, limited gun range, awful reload speed, yet Arizona performs highly, and people love her.  What is the difference?  Her 1.8 Sigma makes her more reliable.

Same tier IJN BB counterpart Fuso actually has 1.5 Sigma which is trash, the same gun size as New Mexico, the same amount of rifles.  Yet Fuso performs better, even in Ranked.  Why is that?  Because she reloads at 28 seconds, with the better IJN BB dispersion, while New Mexico and Arizona reload at 34 or 35 seconds.  Fuso's dispersion is better at 20 or so kilometers than New Mexico and Arizona is at with 16km.  What this means is Fuso's dispersion pattern even at range is better than New Mexico's, but her awful 1.5 Sigma means she shotguns pretty bad.  But another offset to Fuso's bad Sigma is that she reloads quickly at 28 seconds to make up for it.

 

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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12 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

US BB guns in Tier IV-VI?

Yes, a lot are indeed wonky with the exception of certain ones.

 

Some Sigma values, FYI.  Sigma is basically the tendency of shots to go towards the center of your dispersion pattern.  The BB with the highest Sigma is Yamato at 2.1. 

1.8 I consider to be an okay BB Sigma value.

 

IV Wyoming 305mm x12:  1.5 Sigma - Atrocious.  Lots of guns but the accuracy is worthless.

V New York 356mm x10:  1.8 - Not bad actually.  1.8 is quite reasonable.  A decent compromise of rifle count, accuracy, gun size.  If only her armor was decent.

V Premium Texas:  See "New York."

VI New Mexico 356mm x12: 1.5  - See, "Wyoming."

VI Premiium Arizona 356mm x12:  1.8 - Well liked due to reliable guns.

VI Premium West Virginia 406mm x8:  1.8 - Not many rifles, the 1.8 Sigma is kind of iffy for only that many guns, but she's doing more than fine.

 

Keep in mind, Sigma isn't the End-All-Be-All value for reliable guns as other things can compensate.  Dispersion size, gun reload, amount of rifles, etc. can play a role.

 

New Mexico and Arizona actually share the same atrocious dispersion numbers, limited gun range, awful reload speed, yet Arizona performs highly, and people love her.  What is the difference?  Her 1.8 Sigma makes her more reliable.

Same tier IJN BB counterpart Fuso actually has 1.5 Sigma which is trash, the same gun size as New Mexico, the same amount of rifles.  Yet Fuso performs better, even in Ranked.  Why is that?  Because she reloads at 28 seconds, with the better IJN BB dispersion, while New Mexico and Arizona reload at 34 or 35 seconds.  Fuso's dispersion is better at 20 or so kilometers than New Mexico and Arizona is at with 16km.  What this means is Fuso's dispersion pattern even at range is better than New Mexico's, but her awful 1.5 Sigma means she shotguns pretty bad.  But another offset to Fuso's bad Sigma is that she reloads quickly at 28 seconds to make up for it.

 

I really do appreciate your effort in helping but it has nothing to do with the accuracy or the sigma of the guns. I pointed that out in my original post.

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42 minutes ago, wildcat18 said:

I really do appreciate your effort in helping but it has nothing to do with the accuracy or the sigma of the guns. I pointed that out in my original post.

You asked whether USN BB guns from Tiers 4-6 were wonky. 

Wonky is commonly undertstood to be not straight or askew.  

Haze outlined, in more detail than your deserved, that yes - USN BBs guns from Tiers 4-6 were typically wonky.  Particularly the T4 Wyoming and T6 New Mexico.  

Furthermore, this has implications for more than just pure hit chance, which is presumably what you meant by accuracy - it means that if you aim correctly at the enemy's citadel, you are less likely to hit it as often than in other ships.  This would be expected to negatively impact your average damage over a large number of battles.  

Also, the maximum damage that the relevant USN, IJN, UK, French and Soviet battleships at the relevant tiers can be found on the wiki.  

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Damage is reduced somewhat because at the time of development during those years, the guns got a new shell. The A hull usually had the lightweight shell. The B hull got the heavy.

WG did nerf the ranges and it kinda reduced the chances of nasty pens from 21kms unless you had a spotter. Even then, a low percentage shot. But once mastered, really devastating.

The damage is nerfed somewhat because South Carolina had basic armor scheme to protect itself from 305mm at the citadel box at range. Properly angled at closer ranges makes it hard to sink. South Carolina has one weakness and that is the torpedo protection.

Moving up to Wyoming, The A hull has very little torps protection, but B does and it makes its belt hard to pen at range, until you are close. But again, designed to repel 13.5 in shells at the time at long ranges. Original Wyoming was a test ship for range finders and directors. While Arkansas was in service and had full upgrades, but only patrolling the US coast. Wyoming in game is Arkansas layout but has to be class ship. WG again, had to nerf a bit in terms of damage because armor is technically OP. NY and Texas have armor to repel 14 inch guns and the armor is significantly robust. Had WG made them with good damage, it would be hard to keep in tier 5.  They eventually made a similar mistake with GC for Italy.

Texas had to be what it is for historical accuracy, however she is nerfed a bit in power because she is deadly in real. Again, damage output was key.

NM has same armor scheme as Colorado but a shorter ship. NM was slated to get 16 inch guns but they were delayed until Colorado. The 12-14 inch guns are very good if you know how to use them. The armor OP for sure and her range is reduced for balance.

Now shooting at other ships is tricky. You get more overpens with cruisers below tier than at tier. That rule applies to all of them. Main shooting focus is middle of any ship as any hit to the bow or stern is likely going to overpen or saturate and result in less damage.

So your shooting philosophy is center mass wide and through the#2 turret at range or if they be bow on. Drop those shells on the bridge at long range and it dips in, so it will be sweet.

Now it's one thing to know, but another to do. It's about execution, and practice is key. Practice in training room with all ships you face and try to hit the difficult shots because in Randoms, they all be difficult.

By tier 7, you will have the patience to pick your targets easily and prioritize based on which ship presents itself. I usually shoot at anything favorable and not looking at me. But in a knife fight, take your time with aim. Single fire with care like you are a gunfighter.

Then you can get in a few gunfights with cruisers like one I had ages ago in my Colorado. I engaged a Pensacola, Cleveland, nurnberg, and a Omaha. All at different ranges. While Omaha and Pensacola are easy, they were not looking at me at first, so I told them" are you going to open fire or whistle Dixie?"

I shot the nurn first because he had not fired his torps in the match so far and as predicted he tried to open up. I got the Cleveland second as he was closest and while not wide, a single shot through his bow is near fatal. The secbat and subsequent reload got him. The pensa was furthest and I got him before he gets close. Bow shot, hit the engine, he was stopped but reload got him. Omaha, despite having torpedoes misses because I tapped the brakes and turned in on him and with just two turrets I deleted.

The Omaha behind me asked me about the order, but was preoccupied by the display of Colorado violence he witnessed to participate, yet he got the DD that popped out of nowhere.

Target selection and knowing when to fire will get the results you seek. You will do fine. Mastering the US line will teach you to be great later on and when you sail Montana, you will be tall in the saddle with Ennio Moricone music in your head from one of those spaghetti westerns. Just don't trust that ugly dude about a job involving gold. But it's okay to deliver a couple of mules for a sister named Sara. US BB line has True Grit.

"Lock and load!" said by Gunnery Sergeant John Stryker in movie, Sands of Iwo Jima.

Edited by SteelRain_Rifleman

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2 hours ago, wildcat18 said:

Are the American guns wonky? With Russian and German guns, as long as I do my part the guns do their job. It seems the American guns can be a crap shoot. Before you answer, for the most part i know when to use ap and when not too. Also, its not about the accuracy of the guns. My accuracy with all 3 nations fall between 35-40% but American damage is below the other 2 nations. Less full damage pens, less citadel hits? Not sure, just seems wonky with American guns.

 Since you mention three specific nations I'll address the difference you may be seeing.

 Most of it is probably an effect of shell speed and the range you're shooting from. USN shells are slower than the other two, and with few exceptions, USN BB's have longer range. For any given range USN shells will impact at a greater angle increasing the effective armor thickness of any vertical surface.  If you like to use the extra range to stay further back this will make the issue more obvious on some targets. Further, some ships, particularly at low/mid tier have pronounced torpedo belts resulting in more zero damage pens. Russian guns in particular deal with this better than USN because of shear velocity.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ares1967 said:

 Since you mention three specific nations I'll address the difference you may be seeing.

 Most of it is probably an effect of shell speed and the range you're shooting from. USN shells are slower than the other two, and with few exceptions, USN BB's have longer range. For any given range USN shells will impact at a greater angle increasing the effective armor thickness of any vertical surface.  If you like to use the extra range to stay further back this will make the issue more obvious on some targets. Further, some ships, particularly at low/mid tier have pronounced torpedo belts resulting in more zero damage pens. Russian guns in particular deal with this better than USN because of shear velocity.

 

You might be point on, that was helpful, thank you. I like tanking (bow on or angled), not one for staying back and sniping. I move in with all 3 nations. So some of the damage disparity could be from the first few volleys heading in.

Edited by wildcat18

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