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DieBesten121

How do you deal with challenged Players?

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First ever post on the forums since I'm just so flustered right now... I've been playing wows on and off since Beta in 2013, and would like to think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to win a match. However I've noticed a sharp increase in high tier steamrolls caused by team mates that simply don't understand game mechanics or have no common sense. I had a game today in the Ostergotland that literally ended in just over 4 minutes with half my team dead and me having captured the only cap and killing their Lightning contesting it. Not to my surprise half the players on my team had a sub 46% win rate, and mediocre average damage. Now I can understand lower tiers where people are trying to learn, but in tier 10 games you would think people wouldn't yolo, or give broadside half the game or make stupid plays. Yet I'm apparently wrong, and it in general just hinders my enjoyment of the game. I like to consider myself a pretty calm person but when I see just utterly bad players there's no way I can't say something to them, usually in the form of constructive criticism. This happened abundantly in last ranked season and I got suspended from chat 3 times for being reported ( I think user reports are a stupid system for that reason since it's just abused) and am not looking to get a fourth... Now am I wrong to call out other players when they make bad plays or are just playing badly in general? In the hopes of improving the game for them and myself if I ever encounter them on my team again? How do you handle these kinds of teams / players? I just miss the matches when both teams are balanced and the game comes down to the last second or the last kill. Those have been replaced by just utter steamrolls for me in recent months.

Edited by DieBesten121
Correction
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The information you share doesn't exist in the game anywhere so you're just a ________  (insert whatever here).

It'd be nice if there was a training and tactics area of the game to point players to, but there isn't even a good single source of info on the game period, let alone anything of value within the client to instruct players.  I get chat vacations in ranked from players that just don't get it.  Anything with a center cap, a buff area, or cap the rings seems to really just go right over the head of a lot of people for whatever reason.  Had a DD that wouldn't get within 2 squares of the center because there was 2 DDs somewhere in it and he didn't understand spotting.  After numerous people telling him what to do, he literally drives to J1 and sits there (not as if that made a difference from sitting at I5).    Saw him again 2 games later and he was BEHIND the BBs spamming torps...

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I'm often active in chat. I will call out a play but (almost) never the persons character. I've never been chat banned.

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2 hours ago, DieBesten121 said:

First ever post on the forums since I'm just so flustered right now... I've been playing wows on and off since Beta in 2013, and would like to think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to win a match. However I've noticed a sharp increase in high tier steamrolls caused by team mates that simply don't understand game mechanics or have no common sense. I had a game today in the Ostergotland that literally ended in just over 4 minutes with half my team dead and me having captured the only cap and killing their Lightning contesting it. Not to my surprise half the players on my team had a sub 46% win rate, and mediocre average damage. Now I can understand lower tiers where people are trying to learn, but in tier 10 games you would think people wouldn't yolo, or give broadside half the game or make stupid plays. Yet I'm apparently wrong, and it in general just hinders my enjoyment of the game. I like to consider myself a pretty calm person but when I see just utterly bad players there's no way I can't say something to them, usually in the form of constructive criticism. This happened abundantly in last ranked season and I got suspended from chat 3 times for being reported ( I think user reports are a stupid system for that reason since it's just abused) and am not looking to get a fourth... Now am I wrong to call out other players when they make bad plays or are just playing badly in general? In the hopes of improving the game for them and myself if I ever encounter them on my team again? How do you handle these kinds of teams / players? I just miss the matches when both teams are balanced and the game comes down to the last second or the last kill. Those have been replaced by just utter steamrolls for me in recent months.

You cannot control others only yourself. 
You need to reflect on what you were saying in chat and how you were saying it. 
Your personal justification for why you think you are right doesn't justify what you say to people at all, because it is subjective. Just because you think what you did or said was right does not make it right. 

Post some replays of your matches that you believe caused the ban and let others be the judge of what you said. 

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     Maybe it's because the game is populated by, you know, people?

     Play Co-op, and half of your problem goes away. Bots never chat.

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2 hours ago, DieBesten121 said:

First ever post on the forums since I'm just so flustered right now... I've been playing wows on and off since Beta in 2013, and would like to think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to win a match. However I've noticed a sharp increase in high tier steamrolls caused by team mates that simply don't understand game mechanics or have no common sense. I had a game today in the Ostergotland that literally ended in just over 4 minutes with half my team dead and me having captured the only cap and killing their Lightning contesting it. Not to my surprise half the players on my team had a sub 46% win rate, and mediocre average damage. Now I can understand lower tiers where people are trying to learn, but in tier 10 games you would think people wouldn't yolo, or give broadside half the game or make stupid plays. Yet I'm apparently wrong, and it in general just hinders my enjoyment of the game. I like to consider myself a pretty calm person but when I see just utterly bad players there's no way I can't say something to them, usually in the form of constructive criticism. This happened abundantly in last ranked season and I got suspended from chat 3 times for being reported ( I think user reports are a stupid system for that reason since it's just abused) and am not looking to get a fourth... Now am I wrong to call out other players when they make bad plays or are just playing badly in general? In the hopes of improving the game for them and myself if I ever encounter them on my team again? How do you handle these kinds of teams / players? I just miss the matches when both teams are balanced and the game comes down to the last second or the last kill. Those have been replaced by just utter steamrolls for me in recent months.

If you were chat banned, then there lies the crux of the problem. 

To influence others, you have to first honor and respect where they're at.  You can be "right" all you want, but if you're doing it in a manner that displays self-righteousness, shaming others, and name-calling, then all others are going to see is vomit, and no one is going to listen to you.

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As it is their right to play as if they had a tomato for a brain it is also your right to say whatever you want. WG even incorporated a chat system for both your team and for both teams to read. Say what you want, just understand that there are consequences...Even if you are right, polite and helpful. I can unload all of my reports on anyone I chose for any reason I chose. I often report players from games I recall 7 months ago.....

The fastest way to get reported is to tell someone the truth. As a professional when it comes to chat bans, I don't swear or any of that stuff... But I will tell people I told you so after trying to tell them not to push early in a standard battle in a double CV game.....or not to rush to the 1 or 10 lines, because it's capture the base not get as far from both as possible.....Pow, -2karma.....

 

The problem is that there are terrible players in this game and they simply seem unable to learn from their mistakes. Thousands of games and still playing at 42% wr and a complete lack of understanding how ships and points work.

The real problem that you have is caring. You get penalized for caring and trying to help. Ironically, the ones that you are trying to enlighten, don't care. But they can still report you.

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3 hours ago, DieBesten121 said:

First ever post on the forums since I'm just so flustered right now... I've been playing wows on and off since Beta in 2013, and would like to think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to win a match. However I've noticed a sharp increase in high tier steamrolls caused by team mates that simply don't understand game mechanics or have no common sense. I had a game today in the Ostergotland that literally ended in just over 4 minutes with half my team dead and me having captured the only cap and killing their Lightning contesting it. Not to my surprise half the players on my team had a sub 46% win rate, and mediocre average damage. Now I can understand lower tiers where people are trying to learn, but in tier 10 games you would think people wouldn't yolo, or give broadside half the game or make stupid plays. Yet I'm apparently wrong, and it in general just hinders my enjoyment of the game. I like to consider myself a pretty calm person but when I see just utterly bad players there's no way I can't say something to them, usually in the form of constructive criticism. This happened abundantly in last ranked season and I got suspended from chat 3 times for being reported ( I think user reports are a stupid system for that reason since it's just abused) and am not looking to get a fourth... Now am I wrong to call out other players when they make bad plays or are just playing badly in general? In the hopes of improving the game for them and myself if I ever encounter them on my team again? How do you handle these kinds of teams / players? I just miss the matches when both teams are balanced and the game comes down to the last second or the last kill. Those have been replaced by just utter steamrolls for me in recent months.

I am very talkative in chat, and I often provide helpful advice to my team.  

The only times I've been chat banned is when I've gone off my nut and really earnt it - via the automated system rather than player reports.  Its part of the reason why I dont play ranked anymore. 

So, there is room for you to improve with your encouragement of better play.  

But, you are right - high tiers are no guarantee that players arent knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers.  All you can really do is tell the lemming train to not stop or we lose, let go and then move into the next battle. 

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Chat has become too toxic (me included) so I have it disabled now and I enjoy the game more plus the added benefit of making the chat report trolls ineffective.

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4 hours ago, DieBesten121 said:

How do you handle these kinds of teams / players?

You can't, although I will sometimes report a player for unsporting conduct rather than simply poor play. Watching a Massachusetts expecting a Bayern to tank for him against half the enemy team is really miserable. The rest of the team was debating in chat whether he was a bot or particularly stupid. My diagnosis was "gutless coward". Various factors suggested to me he'd bought a prestige ship to feed his machismo but was incapable of using it in the appropriate manner. We squeaked out a win somehow, but it was one of the very few victorious battles I've been in that I honestly thought we deserved to lose.

There are people I've come across from time to time who if I'd had my way at the time would have their high-tier premium ships taken away or even their account deleted, but one or two of them have actually managed to reform themselves and become competent players. There's one in particular whose name made me headdesk every time I saw him on my team list, but the last couple of times I saw him in co-op he'd actually fought well, and it's got to the point where I say hi to him in chat if I see him.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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Holy wall of txt batman... My eyes, ok lets fix the OP's post.

"First ever post on the forums since I'm just so flustered right now... I've been playing wows on and off since Beta in 2013. I would like to think I have a pretty good grasp on what it takes to win a match. However, I've noticed a sharp increase in high tier steamrolls caused by teammates... I am under the impression they simply don't understand game mechanics or have no common sense.

I had a game today in the Ostergotland that literally ended in just over 4 minutes with half. With my team dead, I captured the only cap and killing their Lightning contesting it. Not to my surprise half the players on my team had a sub 46% win rate, and mediocre average damage. Now I can understand lower tiers where people are trying to learn, but in tier 10 games you would think people wouldn't yolo, or give broadside half the game or make stupid plays. Yet I'm apparently wrong, and it just hinders my enjoyment of the game.

 I like to consider myself a pretty calm person. However, when I see just utterly bad players in a match...  I can't say nothing to them usually, in the form of constructive criticism. This happened abundantly in last ranked season. I got suspended from chat 3 times for being reported ( I think user reports are a stupid system for that reason since it's just abused) and am not looking to get a fourth...

Now am I wrong to call out other players when they make bad plays or are just playing badly in general? In the hopes of improving the game for them and myself, In  future encounters in a match again? How do you handle these kinds of teams / players? I just miss the matches when both teams are balanced and the game comes down to the last second or the last kill. Those have been replaced by just utter steamrolls for me in recent months."

^^^^FIFY OP thank me later...


Few things,

  • I disagree on your "grasp" on how to win a match when you been inconsistent playing WOWS for 7 years... Not even the regulars who experienced the meta changes have a "grasp" on how to win consistently...
  • High tier matches have been power creep extensively since 2018... This notion that what you learned in mid or low tiers is valid for high tier matches... This is a distorted view on your part...
    • HIgh tier DD play is not the same as low or mid tier DD play...
    • CL game play at low and mid tiers, dont have to worry about instant death compared to high tiers
    • CVs are disproportional at all tiers
    • The only ship class in where your argument fits, BBs of any tier...
  • I call into question, your ability to adapt...
  • From a Statistics POV, the server make up WR wise... Haven't change since 7 years ago... %45 to %55WR block reflect the %90 percentile of the server population.. Which means, you're trashing the majority of the server population for ALL server regions... 
  • If you manage to get a chat ban.... Its not the "stupid system" at fault... Chat bans are HARD to get.... You're more then likely to get a Solo warrior first then a chat ban... So far, all chat bans have been justified and verified by a staff member... I have no reason to doubt that process.
  • If you cant say anything nice, dont say it at all...  So yes you're in the wrong to use language that gave you a chat ban...

In summery OP, You're a little rusty... Its ok... I can tell you based on what I noted above... Its not a team issue...

Its you.

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I agree with everything you are saying.

That being said, when it comes to complaining in chat, many people do it without knowing what is actually going on. Not saying you aren't right sometimes. I have been the victim of [edited] people in chat many times. Let me give you a couple of examples.

In a random game, the team split up about 50-50 and the side I went to fought about half the enemy team. At the end of that "mini" battle, I was the only one left standing in my DD. The rest of my team was losing on the other side of the map and some mentally challenged person called me out in chat for being way out of position and useless. I had probably about 3 kills and more than 100K dmg at that point. What should I have done? Left my teammates before the last red had been sunk?

In another random game, I was in one of the new EU DDs and I had lost almost all my health (around 700 left). We didn't have any caps and we were losing so our CV player told me to take a cap that had a red DD in it (it had been spotted there not long ago). I impolitely told him to do it himself. I have no health or smoke, so it would just be throwing away my ship since he would spot me first and one hit would have killed me.

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When it comes to poor players in games, I have several thoughts.

First, we should keep firmly in mind - and I admit this isn't always easy - that all poor players are not on MY team.  At least, not all the time.  Sometimes, they are over there among the reds.

Second, when I'm in a battle, for the vast majority of the time in a battle, I am FAR too busy to even notice most other players on my team (just ask the folks I've rammed accidentally).  That goes for red players who aren't in my immediate vicinity or in my gunsight (just ask the red BB captains who have blapped me from the far side of the map).  In pauses in the action, I'll sometimes see a ship that seems to be badly out of place, but I generally don't know how/why he got there, and without knowing that, I can hardly criticize his current position/actions, can I?  Example from my own experience:  In a battle a few days ago, a red DD suddenly popped up way back in our backfield, clearly intent on killing our CV.  I was the closest cruiser, so I turned and went after him.  I eventually killed him, which kept our CV alive and doing what CVs do.  I turned and headed back for the battle.  A few seconds later, some dead guy in chat started [edited] about me "hiding" in the back.  

All that said, how I handle "poor" players is...I don't.  I can only control what I do.  I do the best I can in every battle, and assume most other players on my team will do the same.  That doesn't mean I won't make suggestions to my team sometimes.  But there's no point in going beyond that.  In two years playing the game, I've never been chat banned.  And I've reported some one exactly once. 

The only "poor" players I do anything at all about are those on the red team.  I find they make the best targets...

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15 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

You can't, although I will sometimes report a player for unsporting conduct rather than simply poor play. Watching a Massachusetts expecting a Bayern to tank for him against half the enemy team is really miserable. The rest of the team was debating in chat whether he was a bot or particularly stupid. My diagnosis was "gutless coward". Various factors suggested to me he'd bought a prestige ship to feed his machismo but was incapable of using it in the appropriate manner. We squeaked out a win somehow, but it was one of the very few victorious battles I've been in that I honestly thought we deserved to lose.

There are people I've come across from time to time who if I'd had my way at the time would have their high-tier premium ships taken away or even their account deleted, but one or two of them have actually managed to reform themselves and become competent players. There's one in particular whose name made me headdesk every time I saw him on my team list, but the last couple of times I saw him in co-op he'd actually fought well, and it's got to the point where I say hi to him in chat if I see him.

"gutless coward?"  Really??  That could be an eight year old on his father or grand father's account......  Ouch!  

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2 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

That could be an eight year old on his father or grand father's account......  Ouch!  

I know how my kids played Warships when they were eight. This was not a child playing on a carer's account.

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9 minutes ago, Farm_Fresh_Eggs said:

Chat bans should have their own achievement.

"Salty Sailor" - awarded for fifty chat bans accumulated.

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6 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

"gutless coward?"  Really??  That could be an eight year old on his father or grand father's account......  Ouch!  

 

3 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I know how my kids played Warships when they were eight. This was not a child playing on a carer's account.

That's why i try not to be rude in chat.

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Just fit the little fella with a new helmet and let him go out and play...

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Make recommendations in chat.  In a nice way.  Then play in a manner that maximizes your chance for victory even if they don't comply.  Sometimes, there is nothing you can do.  Sometimes, you can carry.  Do what you can in chat.  Do what you can in play.  

But don't berate someone in chat.  Ultimately, counterproductive.  It's hard, I know...sometimes, the salt instinct just gets the best of you.

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6 hours ago, DieBesten121 said:

How do you handle these kinds of teams / players?

I complain to WG that they have a system where captains fail to the top, do not have to learn anything about the game, and are not put into a skill based MM system.

This situation is totally at the feet of WG. They have made choices that make the situation exactly what it is.

Skill is not needed to play this game, as such there are many unskilled players.

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4 hours ago, John_Crace said:

I'm often active in chat. I will call out a play but (almost) never the persons character. I've never been chat banned.

Yeah I have never been chat banned either.

I have found instead of getting angry I may try to coax some players to help if possible. By trying to politely coordinate the team if I am sunk so that plans can be made and support pooled. Or if I am alive and able to fight I will offer my support if a player or perhaps players can help me.

For example had a couple DDs and a CA acting a little nervous about moving up to a base early on in a match that knew they could take, so I told them my Bismarck would be moving up with them if they could help provide escort I could knock out the enemy ships. They agreed and did as I asked and I took out an enemy cruiser that might have given them a good fight and had my secondary guns working on a DD. Those previously hesitant players were then far more bold and willing to follow any further instructions I gave them since I had proven I was capable and true to my word and style in Bismarck I had given them close support that was also effective.

So my point is instead of acting annoyed and yelling at players in chat, I typically try to instead sort of negotiate with them which can’t get me chat banned and is just different enough of an approach that players tend to listen a bit more I think.

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I think you have to take what's been going on for the last 2 months that being the increase in lopsided games with a grain of salt . Just a lot of people stuck inside who are playing for the first time and not knowing what there doing .

I have gotten salty a few times during games especially when drinking it 's probable backfired on me half the time . You say stupid stuff and then your team wins you call out a player he ends top of the leader board in HP with 3 kills .

I think it's better to say nothing if you have nothing good to say or if you have to at least some form of constructive criticism . 

With that being said we all lose it so you just have to try your best to keep it civil during tough times .

 

 

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7 hours ago, DieBesten121 said:

high tier steamrolls caused by team mates that simply don't understand game mechanics or have no common sense

same issues on both sides [green and red]. I handle it by clubbing those seals as fast as possible.... its a bit of whack a mole... who kills which side fastest wins. is what it is... if you are as good as you think you are, your STATS should be booming!

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