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We have been rightfully worried about BB vs Sub counter play . I that giving that BB planes the power to drop depth charges is a great idea .... That would force Subs to keep range on BB / That could make the torps a little easier to dodge .

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42 minutes ago, War182 said:

I that giving that BB planes the power to drop depth charges is a great idea

yes, this WAS a thing that scout planes did iirc

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43 minutes ago, War182 said:

We have been rightfully worried about BB vs Sub counter play . I that giving that BB planes the power to drop depth charges is a great idea .... That would force Subs to keep range on BB / That could make the torps a little easier to dodge .

There needs to be some, even if it is limited, way for all ships to attack subs. Otherwise the end of a match might become a real PITA, especially at higher tiers.

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if you visit the devblog page you will see WG agrees with you...

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In terms of making the battle "fair" or "balanced" (each person have their POV of what that means). It will open up Pandora's box of headaches...

As it stands, the survivability of a sub is already low thanks to dept charges... The mechanics/interface of shooting torps underwater is poorly reviewed, designed and executed.

No thank you... Right now, the plan is the have subs in their own mode, until they fix the issues I noted... Subs will be meh at best... Like the current flavor of the month.

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I'm on record as advocating for ASW Plane consumables available for ships that can mount a catapult plane and/or CV's.

That said, a BB has plenty of options already.

1.  Sink everything that threatens your team's ASW assets and submarines (so that they can do their job and sink the enemy submarines and help you sink everything else, too).
2.  Sail fast enough and maneuver enough to dodge submarine torpedoes.
3.  Capture areas.
  3-A.  Even the slowest BB's sail faster than a submerged submarine in the current play-testing games.  A submarine must go to periscope-depth or fully surface to contest/capture an area.  While surfaced or at "P.D.", a submarine can be fired-upon and damaged by BB ordnance (main and secondary batteries, and in some cases, torpedoes).
 The "counter play" is to play smarter and better earlier in the game to prevent a "BB vs. Submarine" situation.  But, even if that is the situation you're faced with, the BB can force a submarine to either surface enough to risk getting damaged or force the submarine to lose the game because they are not capturing enough areas to prevent a points-win for the BB.  Use maneuvers and islands to break torpedo-homing target-locks and win on points.
4.  Sail closer to the "action" than you ever thought possible.  Take risks.  Hone your skills for dealing maximum damage in the shortest time while dodging incoming ordnance of all kinds.

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I think this potentially a great idea depending on how all the testing plays out. 

Based on aircraft now, the planes would have a limited patrol radius, a limited number of launch times, a limited flight time, and a limited amount of potential damage if they work similarly to fighters or spotters.

Using current planes as a base, ASW planes would provide the ability to ward away an incoming sub without actually directly engaging it or directly engaging it to damage or destroy it. The limits placed on the plane could keep them from being overly effective but their mere presence could buy time for a BB or CA to disengage. Much like AA being an automated system, ASW would have the same general idea: A soft counter that relies on players skill in maneuvering or ship builds to create efficiency.

This also opens up new avenues for a 2nd line of carriers, more usefulness for the direction center for fighters captian skill, and new ship lines.

 

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36 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

In terms of making the battle "fair" or "balanced" (each person have their POV of what that means). It will open up Pandora's box of headaches...

As it stands, the survivability of a sub is already low thanks to dept charges... The mechanics/interface of shooting torps underwater is poorly reviewed, designed and executed.

No thank you... Right now, the plan is the have subs in their own mode, until they fix the issues I noted... Subs will be meh at best... Like the current flavor of the month.

 

13 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I'm on record as advocating for ASW Plane consumables available for ships that can mount a catapult plane and/or CV's.

That said, a BB has plenty of options already.

1.  Sink everything that threatens your team's ASW assets and submarines (so that they can do their job and sink the enemy submarines and help you sink everything else, too).
2.  Sail fast enough and maneuver enough to dodge submarine torpedoes.
3.  Capture areas.
  3-A.  Even the slowest BB's sail faster than a submerged submarine in the current play-testing games.  A submarine must go to periscope-depth or fully surface to contest/capture an area.  While surfaced or at "P.D.", a submarine can be fired-upon and damaged by BB ordnance (main and secondary batteries, and in some cases, torpedoes).
 The "counter play" is to play smarter and better earlier in the game to prevent a "BB vs. Submarine" situation.  But, even if that is the situation you're faced with, the BB can force a submarine to either surface enough to risk getting damaged or force the submarine to lose the game because they are not capturing enough areas to prevent a points-win for the BB.  Use maneuvers and islands to break torpedo-homing target-locks and win on points.
4.  Sail closer to the "action" than you ever thought possible.  Take risks.  Hone your skills for dealing maximum damage in the shortest time while dodging incoming ordnance of all kinds.

These are not useful suggestions for the WG acknowledged issue of one side only having BBs and CAs left when the other side has submarines, or maybe only submarines.  BBs and CAs need to be able to do something in that circumstance.

HMS Warspite did sink a U-Boat by having her spotter drop bombs or depth charges on it, so what is being asked for is not a fantasy fabrication like much of this game.

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1 minute ago, Helstrem said:

 

These are not useful suggestions for the WG acknowledged issue of one side only having BBs and CAs left when the other side has submarines, or maybe only submarines.  BBs and CAs need to be able to do something in that circumstance.

HMS Warspite did sink a U-Boat by having her spotter drop bombs or depth charges on it, so what is being asked for is not a fantasy fabrication like much of this game.

Your words indicate that you did not read the first sentence of my post.

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Honestly, we shouldnt even need to ask for counterplay. But aparently WG doesnt understand the concept of play vs counterplay. Considering that we still dont have counterplay to CVs, i dont doubt WG is not going to give any counterplay to BBs and crusiers against subs.

 

During the PTS tests, ive seeing many situations where the sub just sits under a BB or crusier for several minutes, even games that ended by time because there were no more ships with depth charges left in one team and a sub on the other one, so basicly there was no way to deal with that sub. 

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23 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Sink everything that threatens your team's ASW assets and submarines (so that they can do their job and sink the enemy submarines and help you sink everything else, too).

but see, there lies the problem, they can only do that but so fast, and you cant control if your teams DDs decide to suicide in making your helping end up being for nothing in the end because they get themselves killed, and teamwork isnt exactly a thing you see in this game, and i bet you that wont change even when subs come about

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2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Your words indicate that you did not read the first sentence of my post.

The first sentence is made irrelevant by the rest of the post.  When somebody says "I'm not a racist, but...." and goes on to say a racist thing, their little preamble doesn't mean anything.  Your opening sentence is the same kind of thing.  You list off a bunch of things that don't actually address the problem at all, suggesting that the status quo is just fine when even WG admits it is not.

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Earth ship Pilot:
A message from the Gamilon ship, sir: "Earth fleet, we advise you to surrender now". What shall I tell them?

Captain Abraham Avatar:
Tell them they're idiots!

Earth ship Pilot:
What?

Captain Abraham Avatar:
I said - idiots!

Earth ship Pilot:
This is the Earth flag ship 225. Our answer: Idiots! Over.

Quoted from Star Blazers, Season 1 Episode 1

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1 hour ago, War182 said:

We have been rightfully worried about BB vs Sub counter play . I that giving that BB planes the power to drop depth charges is a great idea .... That would force Subs to keep range on BB / That could make the torps a little easier to dodge .

I've been suggesting this since it was first revealed that only DDs would have ASW gear.  

IMO, it's an absolute necessity to give any ship with a catapult the option to mount "scout bombers".

 

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18 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

These are not useful suggestions for the WG acknowledged issue of one side only having BBs and CAs left when the other side has submarines, or maybe only submarines. 

??????

Have you played or testing the Sub mod ?? How (in my statement in post #5) affect your impossible (and highly irrational) scenario when the AI is involved?

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5 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

I've been suggesting this since it was first revealed that only DDs would have ASW gear.  

IMO, it's an absolute necessity to give any ship with a catapult the option to mount "scout bombers".

 

In the Public-Test-Server, several cruisers are equipped with depth-charges (not all, but several).

Teams are not "helpless" against submarines.

Don't forget that both teams start out with submarines, which can sink each other.

And there's still time for WOWs to fine-tune things and make changes before the release of Submarines.

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13 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Teams are not "helpless" against submarines.

Don't forget that both teams start out with submarines, which can sink each other.

Neither of which changes the need for every ship to be able to engage every ship directly. 

Teamwork is hypothetical at best, and the presence of ships at the start of battle doesn't mean they'll be there 5 minutes in. 

 

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1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Teams are not "helpless" against submarines.

Teams are not helpless, individual players/ships are. 

 

No ship should be invulnerable or helpless agaisnt anything. 

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1 hour ago, Navalpride33 said:

??????

Have you played or testing the Sub mod ?? How (in my statement in post #5) affect your impossible (and highly irrational) scenario when the AI is involved?

Yes, I have.  Your post does not address the problem, it hand waves it away.  Your personal dislike for where BBs are powerwise does not change the fact that as it currently stands BBs, and CAs, have no recourse against submarines in the cases where that matchup is forced.  WG themselves acknowledged this and said they have ideas they are working on internally to address it.  That submarines will be in their own mode, at least initially, doesn't change that fact at all.

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1 hour ago, KilljoyCutter said:

Neither of which changes the need for every ship to be able to engage every ship directly. 

Teamwork is hypothetical at best, and the presence of ships at the start of battle doesn't mean they'll be there 5 minutes in. 

 

why are subs any different to other ships that can engage and attack from stealth?  

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4 minutes ago, SKurj said:

why are subs any different to other ships that can engage and attack from stealth?  

You keep asking that, and I keep saying that the solution to a problem in the game isn't to add more of that problem.

This is the last time I'm answering the same question. 

From now on, you're only going to get "asked and answered". 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, KilljoyCutter said:

You keep asking that, and I keep saying that the solution to a problem in the game isn't to add more of that problem.

This is the last time I'm answering the same question. 

From now on, you're only going to get "asked and answered". 

 

you keep saying every ship needs to be able to directly counter another and there are so many cases of this inequality wth difference is it going to make to add another....

teams are balanced, not ships...    

direct counter doesn't work currently even at equal tier, and it gets worse as you get uptiered.  

Obviously every ship able to counter every ship is not WG's goal.

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3 hours ago, War182 said:

We have been rightfully worried about BB vs Sub counter play . I that giving that BB planes the power to drop depth charges is a great idea .... That would force Subs to keep range on BB / That could make the torps a little easier to dodge .

Nyet, comrade. Battleship will deploy glorious tankovksyflotta to do the job!

 

Tanksub.jpg

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