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I found that quite interesting.

Do you realize that we had something similar occur recently? After the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991, global temperatures were 1 degree F cooler than normal, which is actually a big deal considering how much stored heat 1 degree F of temperature change in the oceans represents.

Edited by Snargfargle

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1 hour ago, jags_domain said:

My fav YouTube

What I particularly like about The History Guy is he covers such a wide range of topics.

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18 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

What I particularly like about The History Guy is he covers such a wide range of topics.

And his stuff is really different.  He did one at the tank museum.  The normal 5 fav tanks.

His best was a rusted tank repaire vehicle.  It truly was history that deserve to be remember.

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49 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I found that quite interesting.

Do you realize that we had something similar occur recently? After the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991, global temperatures were 1 degree F cooler than normal, which is actually a big deal considering how much stored heat 1 degree F of temperature change in the oceans represents.

How darrreee you!!!!!  Lol

If you get the referance.

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31 minutes ago, jags_domain said:

How darrreee you!!!!!  Lol

If you get the reference.

Environmental science is a complex issue and emotional bias only clouds things. I have three degrees in biology, a year of post-grad study in historical geology, have taught environmental science and ecology in college, and yet consider myself just barely versed enough to rationally discuss the causes of climate change and its impact on humanity and the Earth's biosphere. It took me over twenty years to complete my university education. Apparently, however, mentally-ill 16-year-old girls have access to founts of scientific knowledge that I don't know of. 

 

 

Edited by Snargfargle
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Not being specifically trained in communication, I couldn't have put this any better, or as well.

Quote

 

There’s a reason that we don’t look to teenagers for guidance on fraught issues of public policy. With very rare exceptions — think, say, the philosopher John Stuart Mill, who was a child prodigy — kids have nothing interesting to say to us. They just repeat back what they’ve been told by adults, with less nuance and maturity.

Much of the climate advocacy of young people boils down to the plaint that all parents know well: “I want it, and I want it now.” As one headline on a National Geographic story put it, “Kids’ world climate strikes demand that warming stop, fast.”

Behind the foot-stomping is the idea that a long-running global phenomenon could be quickly stopped, if only adults cared as much as the kids did. This fails to account for such recalcitrant factors as costs and complexity, but when do children ever think of those? (And who can blame them? They’re children.)

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/09/greta-thunberg-climate-activist-united-nations/

 

 

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2 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Environmental science is a complex issue and emotional bias only clouds things. I have three degrees in biology, a year of post-grad study in historical geology, have taught environmental science and ecology in college, and yet consider myself just barely versed enough to rationally discuss the causes of climate change and its impact on humanity and the Earth's biosphere. It took me over twenty years to complete my university education. Apparently, however, mentally-ill 16-year-old girls have access to founts of scientific knowledge that I don't know of. 

 

 

See you are using reasoning Ang rational thought to reach a conclusion that might or might not be true.

Very well said Sir.

 

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I've been a science geek since the the 1960s, which was when global cooling was occurring, and have been following climate change research and news since April 22, 1970. That was the first Earth Day and the day I attended a lecture by a professor about global cooling and a new ice age.

1970 - U.S. and Soviet Press Studies of a Colder Arctic: The United States and the Soviet Union are mounting large‐scale investigations to determine why the Arctic climate is becoming more frigid, why parts of the Arctic sea ice have recently become ominously thicker and whether the extent of that ice cover contributes to the onset of ice ages.
https://www.nytimes.com/1970/07/18/archives/us-and-soviet-press-studies-of-a-colder-arctic-us-and-soviet-press.html

1975 - The Cooling World: Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the Arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve.
http://www.denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

But then this happened and the cooling stopped.

Greater-than-expected solar activity heated the outer layers of Earth's atmosphere and increased drag on Skylab. By late 1977, NORAD also forecast a reentry in mid-1979; a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) scientist criticized NASA for using an inaccurate model for the second most-intense sunspot cycle in a century, and for ignoring NOAA predictions published in 1976.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylab

More recently.

May 2017 - Reinforcing the double dynamo model with solar-terrestrial activity in the past three millennia: We predict the upcoming Modern grand minimum in 2020-2055
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1705.04482.pdf

2018 - The Chill of Solar Minimum - SABER monitors infrared emissions from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances that play a key role in the energy balance of air 100 to 300 kilometers above our planet’s surface. By measuring the infrared glow of these molecules, SABER can assess the thermal state of gas at the very top of the atmosphere–a layer researchers call “the thermosphere.”   As 2018 comes to an end, the Thermosphere Climate Index is on the verge of setting a Space Age record for Cold. “We’re not there quite yet,” says Mlynczak, “but it could happen in a matter of months.”
https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2018/09/27/the-chill-of-solar-minimum/

June 12, 2019 - Solar Activity Forecast for Next Decade Favorable for Exploration: The forecast for the next solar cycle says it will be the weakest of the last 200 years. The maximum of this next cycle – measured in terms of sunspot number, a standard measure of solar activity level – could be 30 to 50% lower than the most recent one. The results show that the next cycle will start in 2020 and reach its maximum in 2025.
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/solar-activity-forecast-for-next-decade-favorable-for-exploration

July 14, 2018 - Italian forecasters think solar minimum is causing global cooling: The climate could be at a really crucial crossroads over the next few years. Big changes seem to be waiting for us, and we could all be witnesses to something very unusual.
https://www.ilmeteo.it/notizie/meteo-sole-stanco-autunno-inverno-messi-ko-neve-gelo-tendenza

August 11, 2019 - China Scientists Warn Of Global Cooling Trick Up Nature’s Sleeve: "Driving forces include the sun, the atmosphere, and its interaction with the ocean. We have detected no evidence of human influence."
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3022136/china-scientists-warn-global-cooling-trick-natures-sleeve

Some more history.

 

Edited by Klaatu_Nicto

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19 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Environmental science is a complex issue and emotional bias only clouds things. I have three degrees in biology, a year of post-grad study in historical geology, have taught environmental science and ecology in college, and yet consider myself just barely versed enough to rationally discuss the causes of climate change and its impact on humanity and the Earth's biosphere. It took me over twenty years to complete my university education. Apparently, however, mentally-ill 16-year-old girls have access to founts of scientific knowledge that I don't know of. 

 

 

 

As you'll hear at 3:29 in this video, even professionals don't understand it all.

 

A primer on solar climate forcing.

 

A model that cannot replicate past events makes it's predictions about the future dubious. Zharkova's model has replicated past events.

 

 

 

Recommendations for CMIP6 solar forcing data
https://solarisheppa.geomar.de/cmip6

Researchers find bottom of Pacific getting colder, possibly due to Little Ice Age
A pair of researchers, one with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, the other Harvard University, has found evidence of deep ocean cooling that is likely due to the Little Ice Age.
https://phys.org/news/2019-01-bottom-pacific-colder-possibly-due.html

The Long Memory Of The Pacific Ocean
Cold waters that sank in polar regions hundreds of years ago during the Little Ice Age are still impacting deep Pacific Ocean temperature trends....These findings increase the impetus for understanding the causes of the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age as a way for better understanding modern warming trends.
http://www.whoi.edu/news-release/the-long-memory-of-the-pacific-ocean

 

Surface water that sinks to the deep ocean off the coast of Greenland resurfaces in the Pacific Ocean 1000 years later.   :Smile_amazed:

 

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2 minutes ago, Klaatu_Nicto said:

even professionals don't understand it all.

Some say that astronomy is a useless science, as the stars and planets don't affect us much on a day-to-day basis. However, they fail to recall that the Sun also is a star and it does affect us, literally, daily. 

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7 minutes ago, Klaatu_Nicto said:

A pair of researchers, one with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, the other Harvard University, has found evidence of deep ocean cooling that is likely due to the Little Ice Age.

When you scuba dive you get first-hand experience in how the temperature of a body of water changes with depth. It's quite shocking sometimes to descend through a thermocline into to water that's 30 degrees colder than that at the surface.

In the ocean there are not only thermoclines but haloclines too. There are "lakes" and "rivers" of higher-salt-concentration water at the bottom of the oceans. You can actually see freshwater streams coming into the ocean by the way the water's refraction changes.

Global temperatures are strongly affected by differential-saline undersea currents as they take cold water from the Poles to the Equator and return warm water back to the Poles. Without them the Earth would freeze and only have a narrow band of open water near the Equator.

As you are likely living near Puget Sound you really ought to take up scuba diving. When I lived in the PNW I dove in Puget Sound hundreds of times. The marine biotic community of the PNW is one of the most diverse in the world. Jacques Cousteau himself said that it rivaled even that of the Red Sea. 

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4 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

When you scuba dive you get first-hand experience in how the temperature of a body of water changes with depth. It's quite shocking sometimes to descend through a thermocline into to water that's 30 degrees colder than that at the surface.

In the ocean there are not only thermoclines but haloclines too. There are "lakes" and "rivers" of higher-salt-concentration water at the bottom of the oceans. You can actually see freshwater streams coming into the ocean by the way the water's refraction changes.

Global temperatures are strongly affected by differential-saline undersea currents as they take cold water from the Poles to the Equator and return warm water back to the Poles. Without them the Earth would freeze and only have a narrow band of open water near the Equator.

As you are likely living near Puget Sound you really ought to take up scuba diving. When I lived in the PNW I dove in Puget Sound hundreds of times. The marine biotic community of the PNW is one of the most diverse in the world. Jacques Cousteau himself said that it rivaled even that of the Red Sea. 

 

When I first entered college in 1972 my plan was to get a degree in Oceanography and hopefully work some day at a place like Woods Hole but fate had another plan for me.  I was big fan of Greenpeace back then. I had a 'Save The Whales' sticker outside near the front door.  Big fan of Cousteau too.

 

 

What I want to know is how does that swordfish get that fish it speared in it's mouth? :Smile_Default:

Edited by Klaatu_Nicto

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1815 - not a good year. Besides the Tambora eruption the world also experienced a pandemic.

The Volcano That Change The World

 

 

The True Story of the White Island Eruption

At 2:10, a GeoNet camera taking pictures at ten-minute intervals caught an image of Hayden’s group in the distance. They have left the inner rim and are walking in single file back down a gentle slope, heading for the jetty.

For all but three, it was the last picture of them alive.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2411711/whakaari-white-island-new-zealand-volcano-eruption-2019?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

 

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5 hours ago, Klaatu_Nicto said:

 

Volcanoes are cool. I first went up to St Helens before they even officially reopened all of the roads. The place literally looked like the surface of the Moon. There was nobody there to stop me so I hiked up to the caldera, which was still steaming. I've been there several times since. It's still impressive but unfortunately it's gotten "touristy" and crowded too. The ground squirrels have taken advantage of the situation though and will run up your leg and steal food from your plate if you don't watch them. There were so many of them the last time I was there that I half expected to see a family sit down at a picnic table only to be swarmed by a mob of hungry ground squirrels, which would depart after eating their fill, leaving only a family of skeletons sitting at the table.

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During 1980 I had spent most of my time with Weyehaeuser at their forestry lab in Centralia. Sometimes during my lunch breaks I'd find a place to park with a good view of the volcano in hopes it would erupt while I was watching.  I was hired as a temporary for my department, electronics instrumentation R&D, and two weeks before the eruption I hit the max hours and was released.  I was originally sent to Centralia  build a system to measure dissolved oxygen in fish farm tanks but after that was finished  I stayed and ended up working with an engineer and scientists trying to develop faster growing trees.  

Would you believe the worlds newest glacier is inside St. Helens. :Smile_amazed:

 

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Volcanoes and earthquakes are among my favorite subjects.  I've been into catastrophism ever since my mother read me a story in the late 1950s about a farmer in Mexico who one day noticed smoke coming out of a small hole in his field. That small hole became a volcano, Parícutin.

 

About 1300 years before Tambora...............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Klaatu_Nicto said:

During 1980, I had spent most of my time with Weyerhaeuser at their forestry lab in Centralia. I stayed and ended up working with an engineer and scientists trying to develop faster growing trees.  

I was getting out of the Army right around that time but shortly after that I took a trip to the PNW to visit my cousin. Years later, I ended up teaching natural resources technology at a college outside Portland. I was mostly on the fisheries side of things but we had a forestry program at the college too. I can identify most of the trees but don't know much about forestry per se. Many of my students, however, were in the integrated natural resources program so they took both fisheries and forestry classes and I learned a lot from having them on my stream survey field trips and watching them practice forestry surveys too. 

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29 minutes ago, Klaatu_Nicto said:

Volcanoes and earthquakes are among my favorite subjects.  I've been into catastrophism ever since my mother read me a story in the late 1950s about a farmer in Mexico who one day noticed smoke coming out of a small hole in his field. That small hole became a volcano, Parícutin.

I actually still have a book that I got when I was about seven that has that story in it!

There is an old cinder cone about a hundred miles from here that the folk's used to take us to every summer when we were kids.

fixedw_large_4x.jpg

Yes, it's not much to look at but when the rest of the country around here looks like this you take any mountain you can get.

sandsage.jpg

 

Edited by Snargfargle

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Geometry Guided Construction of Earliest Known Temple, Built 6,000 Years Before Stonehenge
https://www.aftau.org/press-release---turkish-temple

 

 

 

Glass in The Soil of a 13,000-Year-Old Settlement in Syria Points to Comet Impact
https://www.sciencealert.com/cosmic-impact-in-syria-almost-13-000-years-ago-may-have-given-the-world-agriculture

 

 

Edited by Klaatu_Nicto

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Quote

 the fact that life in the town continued suggests a group of survivors managed to hold on and rebuild, perhaps recognising that changes would now be needed, and the old ways would no longer support them in this brave new world, and its cooler, more arid environment.

Cultural anthropologists always put too much emphasis on so-called "cultural" events.

As a biologist, I would venture a guess that agriculture probably started in the area because weedy annuals were the first to re-establish themselves in the area of the comet impact and such plants, especially when young, are usually edible. The climate change that was going on at the same time probably made the area more amenable to grasses too, from which grains were developed and with which livestock could be fed, said livestock being grazing and browsing animals that were drawn themselves to the new growth.

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A Secret Space Plane is Carrying a Solar Experiment to Orbit
The idea of beaming solar energy to Earth with radio waves is decades old. But this weekend, the technology gets its first test in orbit.
https://www.wired.com/story/a-secret-space-plane-is-carrying-a-solar-experiment-to-orbit/

 

 

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