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GIock_

Coming back after three years....

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It has been an interesting ride so far.  Loving most parts of the game again.  I have played about 50-75 battles id say.  I also want to say I'm not making this post cuz my jimmies are rustled that bad deep down.

I know I'm preaching to the choir and WG wont realistically change anything but the CV's are a mess.  It was bad before, but my god Is it worse than ever.  The lack of AA effectiveness game wide really makes surface ships helpless.  Took two 15k salvos from a CV right off the rip of a game in my Moskva while I was holding a nice defensive spot early in a game.  Forced me to back off and then I got another focus when he came around again and I died from some extra cruiser fire.  Legit took the dude 2 rocket salvos and an AP bomb strike to do 50k damage to a supposedly "tanky" cruiser (my aa isn't too strong on my build but it doesn't matter these days anyway it seems, plus its a soviet ship so it shouldn't ever take damage XD). I know CV is supposed to "punish camping", but dang I was only 5 minutes in the game tryna radar a cap for the boiz in the small boats behind a sizeable island.  

The DD play at high tiers is fun with no CV, but an absolute nightmare with them when you get singled out.  As much as I hate the way radar functions in this game (should be LOS imo), you can still play around it.  My top tier DD's always get focused, as they should if the enemy team is trying to win, but other than smoke I'm helpless to a competent CV.  I can counter surface ships, but the endless full squadrons are pretty ridiculous.  The rocket planes make DD's play toys; if CV's can perma spot my class that's very fragile, they should have to put some serious work into damaging me.  Eating 10k from rocket planes in two salvos full evasive in a speed boosted Udaloi while smoke is on cool down a'int no joke.  There just isn't much counterplay to CV and it always feels so cheap (that was always the case tho XD).

At least in the old days CV's would get deplaned if they threw away too many early on.  There's a lot of brain dead play that happens in CV's and one good CV player has far too much influence over the battle for their team.  Honestly that's my biggest problem of all is that a purple player can pick apart anyone and everyone with impunity.  When a team loses their CV things trend down harder and harder every second after that CV is lost (unless inconsequential at the end of the game obv). They can be on opposite sides of the map in minutes and can damage at will along with perma spotting targets for teammates to fire and often go undetected 90 percent of the game.  Wayyyyyyyy too much utility for how much damage they can do and vice versa.

Let me make it clear that I don't think if you play CV's you're a bad person, I just think you're playing an overpowered class is all.  I am very curious to see how subs will change up the game whenever they are introduced; seeing they are as hard to balance as CV.

Again, I know this post has been made by everyone in the community it seems, just adding my brick into the wall.  There are a lot of problems with the game and WG is never going to make everyone happy.

I just find this one to be the easiest to fix since they could at least take away one or two of the CV crutches and really improve the health of the game (and the community especially) with some nerfs.  Spreadsheets don't matter as the Smolensk has shown, its just a way to deflect, and that's ok for WG.  We keep giving them our money as I did the other day when they gave me a sick coupon my first day back (for not playing in forever XD) and I bought the Mainz.  We have to vote with our wallet but the art department does make it hard.  This game has always been on the cusp, but we have fell victim to power creep, like all video games that see constant rebalancing.  Mistakes get made but at this point the pot is boiling and WG intends to watch this frog cook it seems.  

Overall, glad to be back, for now.

Godspeed

Edited by GIock_
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Agreed...CVs are overpowered in a purple players hands.....so is any other ship.

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Welcome back Kangaroo and that brick is golden! IF it matters, I agree with your sentiments 100%.

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12 minutes ago, SgtSpud said:

Agreed...CVs are overpowered in a purple players hands.....so is any other ship.

True, but the CV reach makes its influence far more impactful in a purple player's hands...

Edited by Khafni
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If you think CVs are overpowered, I would encourage you to get your hands on them and start playing them. 

 

Most of the people that complain about CVs, simply don't play them. I often feel like they have far less influence on a map then other ships because you simply lack deleting power. 

 

You can be a god tier CV player, that knows how to slingshot perfectly, always goes to the right places ect, but if your teammates drop like flies it really isn't going to matter. 

 

In a game where you have equal skill levels, a CV may make the difference, but a CV is not impacting most games, the MM is. 

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As patiently as possible,  no CV's are not 'worse than ever' and saying that is just dumb,  especially when your last encounter with them was three years ago,  back when  they were far,  far worse.  Multiple squadrons that could spot DD's at full distance and could stay overhead and a ton more alpha strike damage.    CV's can be effectively deplaned still,  a CV launching one or two planes is essentially useless and isn't going to be doing anything other than beefing up the enemies shot down numbers by a few more ticks.  

You.  Can.  Play.  Around.  Planes.  Go do some searches on how.  If you're willing to work around radar you can do the same for planes.  Turn off your AA,  leave it off until you get spotted,  turn into the planes to screw with their aiming,  smoke up.  Make yourself a hard target to hit and they'll leave you alone for easier targets.  Educate yourself instead of coming to the forums and making another one of these threads.

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31 minutes ago, Khafni said:

True, but the CV reach makes its influence far more impactful in a purple player's hands...

Remember the good old time where CV could Dev Stike a Tirpitz with AP bombs? Or could Dev Strike DD with cross drop?

I remember.

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4 hours ago, Y_Nagato said:

Remember the good old time where CV could Dev Stike a Tirpitz with AP bombs? Or could Dev Strike DD with cross drop?

I remember.

Do I remember!

Years ago I got my very first T10. I was so proud I had finally made it to T10. Shimakaze. Put flags and camo and my best captain and took it out for a fight. Very first time in the ship.

Less than two minutes into the game, I am positioning in the open water center to scout. Torps still not ready and a Midway sees me. Cross-drop and dead. Had not shot once. Had not seen a red ship yet anywhere in the map. Not fun.

Edited by alexf24
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6 minutes ago, Slumlord_Dasboot said:

 Most of the people that complain about CVs, simply don't play them. I often feel like they have far less influence on a map then other ships because you simply lack deleting power. 

what is vision for 500 alex.

 

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I also remember AA ships being able to deplane a Carrier

 I also remember fighters could keep carriers from ravaging the home fleet

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The endless planes and the impunity of the AA is what makes it so bad I think for me this time.  Like I said, you used to be able to deplane a CV.  Saw a Halland shoot down 78 aircraft today and the team had about 50 more combined.  Way more than any CV used to have iirc.   Might be exaggerating by saying worse than ever, but they aren't much better imo.  

From what I remember seeing, the damage records on CV's went up by 100-150k on CV's after the new system was put in.  There are just so many advantages stacked one way for carriers compared to other ships simply because the ship itself isn't really doing the work.  

Edited by GIock_

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3 minutes ago, GIock_ said:

The endless planes and the impunity of the AA is what makes it so bad I think for me this time.  Like I said, you used to be able to deplane a CV.  Saw a Halland shoot down 78 aircraft today and the team had about 50 more combined.  Way more than any CV used to have iirc.   Might be exaggerating by saying worse than ever, but they aren't much better imo.  

First off,  educate yourself.  Planes are not unlimited,  not even close.  And actually most carriers have around the same total number of aircraft they had previously,  and that is in a 'perfect' environment where planes are constantly regenerating.  Which they aren't,  since you have to have plane losses to start regeneration.

And finally,  yes,  they are far better.  Single squadrons that can only do damage over  time to most targets,  far more limited spotting capacity,  the system in its current for forces losses off onto CV players by targeting the last plane in the squadron,  and the system in place requires more player interaction for less overall output from what we had previously,  or to put it a bit differently there is less of a gap between the unicum and the layman.  Further CV sniping is largely gone,  meaning that you no longer have situations where one team has a CV and has the run of the roost while the other doesn't,  and in those situations where you do the lone CV team no longer has the massive advantage they had before.

Literally the only thing that changed is that now it's easier for CV's to hunt DD's due to rocket planes but as I said before,  there are counters to that.  Learn them.

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2 minutes ago, GIock_ said:

The endless planes and the impunity of the AA is what makes it so bad I think for me this time.  Like I said, you used to be able to deplane a CV.  Saw a Halland shoot down 78 aircraft today and the team had about 50 more combined.  Way more than any CV used to have iirc.   Might be exaggerating by saying worse than ever, but they aren't much better imo.  

For a tier 10 CV, back under RTS, that's pretty close to what they carried (Hak had 120ish, and the Midway a little less as I recall). Add in some of those are patrol fighters and CV fighter drops, and that wouldn't have deplaned a tier 10 CV back in the RTS days.

Crying that planes are endless and immune to AA is purely an exaggeration.  You can still deplane a CV, by shooting down roughly as many planes as you did back under RTS, provided that those are actually plane kills, and not catapult fighters and CV summoned fighters.

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30 minutes ago, Palladia said:

You.  Can.  Play.  Around.  Planes.  Go do some searches on how.

 

A13usaonutL._AC_CLa_2140,2000_61pUSxrJT1L.png_0,0,2140,2000+0.0,0.0,2140.0,2000.0_UX342_ (1).jpeg

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1 hour ago, SgtSpud said:

Agreed...CVs are overpowered in a purple players hands.....so is any other ship.

With a single difference. Any other ship has to expose itself in some manner, the CV can attack with impunity and without risking his ship.

An imbalance that can't be fixed.....:Smile_coin:

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Nevermind they were in the game however long ago and are less powerful now than before with the cross drop nightmare. But hey, thanks for dropping another tear in the bucket !!!! Lol. Rant over.

The game is quite different than the last time you played and you have a lot of catching up to do. Power creep, dozens of adjustments and rebalancings have occured. It's going to take a while to recalibrate your play style particularly if you are fond of ninja boats. That whole solo yolo hail mary surprise them from behind or island ambush nonsense is long over. These days DD success is all in the planning and details. You need to ask yourself what am I going against, where are they located, what's the range on their radars, where are the planes and how far am I from good AA support?

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7 minutes ago, awiggin said:

With a single difference. Any other ship has to expose itself in some manner, the CV can attack with impunity and without risking his ship.

An imbalance that can't be fixed.....:Smile_coin:

Someone saw my point finally.

 

As far as deplaning goes now, I just rarely see half squadrons towards the end of the game unless the CV is a complete tater tot.  

I know I haven't played in awhile, but I understand the basics of the game well enough to know that CV's are in a really weird place power wise (this is pre subs).

Edited by GIock_

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Nevermind they were in the game however long ago and are less powerful now than before with the cross drop nightmare. But hey, thanks for dropping another tear in the bucket !!!! Lol. Rant over.

The game is quite different than the last time you played and you have a lot of catching up to do. Power creep, dozens of adjustments and rebalancings have occured. It's going to take a while to recalibrate your play style particularly if you are fond of ninja boats. That whole solo yolo hail mary surprise them from behind or island ambush nonsense is long over. These days DD success is all in the planning and details. You need to ask yourself what am I going against, where are they located, what's the range on their radars, where are the planes and how far am I from good AA support?

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7 minutes ago, awiggin said:

With a single difference. Any other ship has to expose itself in some manner, the CV can attack with impunity and without risking his ship.

An imbalance that can't be fixed.....:Smile_coin:

The. Ship. Isn't. Killing. You. It's. The. Planes.

Kill the planes and the ship is little more than a parking ramp. You are looking at the problem incorrectly.

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1 minute ago, thebigblue said:

The. Ship. Isn't. Killing. You. It's. The. Planes.

Kill the planes and the ship is little more than a parking ramp. You are looking at the problem incorrectly.

You cant stop the planes until you destroy the ship, or is this another thing I am getting wrong.  Obv they can control the last planes they have up after the ship is destroyed.

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45 minutes ago, Palladia said:


You.  Can.  Play.  Around.  Planes.  Go do some searches on how.  If you're willing to work around radar you can do the same for planes.  Turn off your AA,  leave it off until you get spotted,  turn into the planes to screw with their aiming,  smoke up.  Make yourself a hard target to hit and they'll leave you alone for easier targets.  Educate yourself instead of coming to the forums and making another one of these threads.

I just laugh when i see players saying this... they keep saying to "adapt" but they never say how... how you adpat to something that is much faster, can spot and strike any where on the map and dont care about terrain.... and you can even shot at it to kill it faster... 

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22 minutes ago, Palladia said:

First off,  educate yourself.  Planes are not unlimited,  not even close.  And actually most carriers have around the same total number of aircraft they had previously,  and that is in a 'perfect' environment where planes are constantly regenerating.  Which they aren't,  since you have to have plane losses to start regeneration.

And finally,  yes,  they are far better.  Single squadrons that can only do damage over  time to most targets,  far more limited spotting capacity,  the system in its current for forces losses off onto CV players by targeting the last plane in the squadron,  and the system in place requires more player interaction for less overall output from what we had previously,  or to put it a bit differently there is less of a gap between the unicum and the layman.  Further CV sniping is largely gone,  meaning that you no longer have situations where one team has a CV and has the run of the roost while the other doesn't,  and in those situations where you do the lone CV team no longer has the massive advantage they had before.

Literally the only thing that changed is that now it's easier for CV's to hunt DD's due to rocket planes but as I said before,  there are counters to that.  Learn them.

Well said. This whole player from long ago just came back from walkabout with tidings of wisdom and clarity schtick smells like trolling or an alt acct.

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1 minute ago, thebigblue said:

Well said. This whole player from long ago just came back from walkabout with tidings of wisdom and clarity schtick smells like trolling or an alt acct.

I think you're just reading too deep pal. Lay off the reefer.

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