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LunchCutter

How much armour does a Yorck have??

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Late stages of a game and I'm engaging a Yorck that just popped up behind a island in my Giulio Cesare. Loaded AP he's coming straight at me at 6-8k so I fire pretty much directly at him, 4 hits, 1 OP 3 ricochets... 1 AP shell figuratively went right through the 150m long boat without activating.. lol?  I spin around and fire the rear guns, 5 ricochets.. I'm thinking 'er.. RNG why??' He's spamming me with fire and torps doing massive damage, yet I reload and fire again, multiple ricochets... 1 970 damage OP hit, again, fire the rear guns and repeat, nothing can hurt this cruiser from hell.. Even my secondaries are doing zero damage. 

 Finding these things almost invincible... Attached a screenshot of the post game report with my hits on him, he nailed me but a CV finished him off. Either RNG was been a mighty evil biatch or they have 30 inches of solid armour...:p The comical dispersion of my guns just added salt to the wound. 

Untitled-1.jpg

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Yorck, NO, and Pensacola were recently buffed and now have 25mm of plating from bow to stern.

Edited by Nevermore135

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Either fire high or use HE on an oncoming ship.

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14 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Yorck, NO, and Pensacola were recently buffed and now have 25mm of plating from bow to stern.

How does 25mm block a 14 inch shell? In WoT 150mm is needed to block a 3 inch shell? :P

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1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

Yorck, NO, and Pensacola were recently buffed and now have 25mm of plating from bow to stern.

Did it happen already? I thought it was next patch.

Nevermind. I found it. It did happen already. lol. 

Edited by Tzarevitch

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25mmx14.3=357.5

357.5>356mm=no overmatch

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Just now, MrDeaf said:

25mmx14.3=357.5

357.5>356mm=no overmatch

Ok but it still does not make sense to my little brain how that can bounce a 14 inch shell perfectly angled, when the same shell will go straight though a Colorado. 

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21 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

How much armour does a Yorck have??

By LunchCutter,

 

Depends upon whether you're shooting at it or sailing one being shot at.  :-)

They're "squishy", like other cruisers.  

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1 minute ago, LunchCutter said:

Ok but it still does not make sense to my little brain how that can bounce a 14 inch shell perfectly angled, when the same shell will go straight though a Colorado. 

it doesn't?

Colorado should also have 25mm plating all over the hull. Only the superstructure has less than 25mm on Colorado.

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1 minute ago, LunchCutter said:

Ok but it still does not make sense to my little brain how that can bounce a 14 inch shell perfectly angled, when the same shell will go straight though a Colorado. 

Yeah.  But only in certain places.

It was "bow on" to you, so it was trying to bounce AP shells.

If you are facing a cruiser with a battleship, use High-Explosive (HE) projectiles unless you're sure to hit their broadside.
Otherwise, as @BrushWolf mentioned, try to hit a turret and incapacitate it or destroy it completely.

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Yorck = troll armour, one of my favourite T-7 CA's for that reason.

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16 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

it doesn't?

Colorado should also have 25mm plating all over the hull. Only the superstructure has less than 25mm on Colorado.

Technically, Colorado (as well as other mid-tier BBs) have 26mm of extremity plating now. It was buffed from 25mm with the IFHE changes since 152mm HE now pens 25mm.

But you are correct that Colorado can bounce 14” AP off her extremity plating or her upper belt.

Edited by Nevermore135
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17 minutes ago, LunchCutter said:

How does 25mm block a 14 inch shell? In WoT 150mm is needed to block a 3 inch shell? :P

Because in Warships just like often times in Tanks you are not dealing with perfectly flat steel plates with a shell hitting perfect 45° angle into it. But rather you are dealing with angled steel plates which greatly increases effective armor thickened to the point that the penetration power of the shell has to be great enough to fight bouncing off. And then the thicker the steel plate the added to the angle the chances of avoiding shell penetration grows. Also there are issues such as a shell being too high in velocity where it will overpen really thin armor, or some armor is made up of several thin layers to set off shells before they hit anything too critical. So there are a lot of variables in armor protection as design teams over the years fame upwith many clever ideas.

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Just noting that GC has 320mm or 12.6" guns not 14" so it really struggles at high angles of attack.

More generally this is a game artifact of how the shells are modeled. Basically the game makes a simplified calculation based on effective Armour thickness based on angle of impact with some fudge factors thrown in.

What the game DOES NOT model is the kinetic energy of a 1 ton shell and it's ability to buckle and deform structural members behind the armor plate. In reality most of those ricochets would make a real mess of the bows of most ships due to kinetic energy and inertia. In the real world even a 12.5 mm Browning round will get close to penetrating 25mm of steal at 45 degrees and will certainly throw a 2-3 kilo block of steel around violently. Imagine the impact of a 25 kilo 6 inch shell or a 500 kilo 12 inch shell thin plating would be badly deformed even if not "Penetrated" this is all overlooked by the game calculations.

Edited by Ellyh

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1 hour ago, LunchCutter said:

How does 25mm block a 14 inch shell? In WoT 150mm is needed to block a 3 inch shell? :P

The same way the 19mm plating on the bow of your Giulio Cesare can bounce anything smaller than an 11” shell. It’s an integral mechanic of this game. I’m not certain how WoT is relevant.

Edited by Nevermore135
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1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

The same way the 19mm plating on the bow of your Giulio Cesare can bounce anything smaller than an 11” shell. It’s an integral mechanic of this game. I’m not certain how WoT is relevant.

^^^

Overmatch Mechanics.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds#AP_overmatch

"An AP shell whose diameter is greater than 14.3 times the thickness of an armor plate will overmatch and pass through it regardless of angle. Here are some thresholds where this occurs, which determines whether it is feasible to "bow-tank" a particular AP shell."

 

Overmatch hasn't changed over the years, it's been consistently the same.  Here's a December 2019 iChase video on Autobounce and Overmatch.

 

This is why Overmatch is so important.  It sh*ts on bow tanking, angling tactics if your guns can Overmatch the opponent's armor.

 

For years I played this game, I had no idea what Overmatch was.  I did not know why my AP shells would obliterate one ship and another I'd struggle to do any damage against.  On the flip side of that, for a long time, I did not understand why I could go bow on and angle against certain opponents very well and another enemy would cause catastrophic damage to me.  I thought I was doing everything right, but I lose 1/4 or maybe 1/3 of my HP from a single enemy salvo.

 

Like understanding Stealth / Concealment / Spotting mechanics which is a major hurdle in getting better in this game for a new player, doing the same with Autobounce / Overmatch mechanics is a CRUCIAL thing to know.  Knowing what weapons your opponent(s) ship has, knowing your own ship's protection scheme and values, you would know what actions are viable and sound, as well as know what actions will get you rekt. 

 

Bow tanking, angling with Baltimore's 27mm bow against Richelieu's 380mm AP salvo is a valid tactic and will frustrate the Richy player.  But do that against a North Carolina and her 406mm AP shells, Baltimore is going to get REKT.

H

A

R

D

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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26 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

^^^

Overmatch Mechanics.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_thresholds#AP_overmatch

"An AP shell whose diameter is greater than 14.3 times the thickness of an armor plate will overmatch and pass through it regardless of angle. Here are some thresholds where this occurs, which determines whether it is feasible to "bow-tank" a particular AP shell."

 

Overmatch hasn't changed over the years, it's been consistently the same.  Here's a December 2019 iChase video on Autobounce and Overmatch.

 

This is why Overmatch is so important.  It sh*ts on bow tanking, angling tactics if your guns can Overmatch the opponent's armor.

 

For years I played this game, I had no idea what Overmatch was.  I did not know why my AP shells would obliterate one ship and another I'd struggle to do any damage against.  On the flip side of that, for a long time, I did not understand why I could go bow on and angle against certain opponents very well and another enemy would cause catastrophic damage to me.  I thought I was doing everything right, but I lose 1/4 or maybe 1/3 of my HP from a single enemy salvo.

 

Like understanding Stealth / Concealment / Spotting mechanics which is a major hurdle in getting better in this game for a new player, doing the same with Autobounce / Overmatch mechanics is a CRUCIAL thing to know.  Knowing what weapons your opponent(s) ship has, knowing your own ship's protection scheme and values, you would know what actions are viable and sound, as well as know what actions will get you rekt. 

 

Bow tanking, angling with Baltimore's 27mm bow against Richelieu's 380mm AP salvo is a valid tactic and will frustrate the Richy player.  But do that against a North Carolina and her 406mm AP shells, Baltimore is going to get REKT.

H

A

R

D

One of the good things to come out of the IFHE rework was the adjustment to midships plating of a lot of cruisers. I’m not a big fan of the degree of standardization WG went with, but giving cruisers more options to defend against high calibers besides not getting hit is a good thing IMO. Now, with many more cruisers having areas of 25, 27, or 30mm, a savvy cruiser player can angle and bait shots into their upper belts and punish many less skilled or greedy players. Now, a BB player who knows what they are doing can aim for your extremities anyways, but it gives skilled players more counterplay options.

I really think one of the best things a new player can do is spend a bit of time just examining the armor layouts of various ships in the tech tree, to get an idea of just what different guns can and cannot penetrate. I’ve gotten my share of good laughs when a Sinop decides they are going to bow-tank my Izumo (because that’s what Soviet BBs do?) or a Baltimore or Des Moines decides to turn away from my Bismarck instead to staying bow-on and reversing behind cover.

Then again, I’m also looking forward to reprising my fun from the last tier VII ranked sprint seasons, where I had a good time charging Sinops in my Scharnhorst while trolling them into shooting my belt. Bonus points if they didn’t know Scharnhorst had torpedoes.

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As someone that hatyes Yourk the first time through. Then they fixed the AP and now its amazing.

The Armor does some.magical things.  I bounced Yammy sells in my Fed at point blank with the right angling.

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7 hours ago, LunchCutter said:

Late stages of a game and I'm engaging a Yorck that just popped up behind a island in my Giulio Cesare. Loaded AP he's coming straight at me at 6-8k so I fire pretty much directly at him, 4 hits, 1 OP 3 ricochets... 1 AP shell figuratively went right through the 150m long boat without activating.. lol?  I spin around and fire the rear guns, 5 ricochets.. I'm thinking 'er.. RNG why??' He's spamming me with fire and torps doing massive damage, yet I reload and fire again, multiple ricochets... 1 970 damage OP hit, again, fire the rear guns and repeat, nothing can hurt this cruiser from hell.. Even my secondaries are doing zero damage. 

 Finding these things almost invincible... Attached a screenshot of the post game report with my hits on him, he nailed me but a CV finished him off. Either RNG was been a mighty evil biatch or they have 30 inches of solid armour...:p The comical dispersion of my guns just added salt to the wound. 

Untitled-1.jpg

Yorck is some of the most fun you'll ever have in a Cruiser.

Armor overmatch in this game works differently to WoT.

32mm plating is enough to bounce a 1 ton shell (16inch) off of it whereas IRL a 16inch shell would phase through 32mm plating like a hot knife through butter at ANY angle.

~Hunter

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