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Skuggsja

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With the upcoming change to consumables all being unified into premium I'd like another quality of life improvement: Permanent basic camo.

We've all seen it or done it, someone has not mounted or run out one of the 3 basic camos. Though it might not always be the biggest issue, in some ships it is a major disadvantage, like destroyers.

So if premium consumables can become the standard in hopes of equaling player performance, can we have the same apply for basic camo? Basically if a player doesnt mount a camouflage they should have Type 5 or Type 1 camo as the base instead of a ship with no camo.

I'm just throwing this out there to see what others think. In my mind making all consumables premium is much the same as mounting the most basic camo. It would help new players and prevent the "battle on" button from being so potentially dangerous.

Edited by Skuggsja
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Free premium consumables ------>Power creep...

I wouldn't be surprised if today's premium will be replaced by some other power creep option in a year or two.

I dont see a halt to the situation... Its not helping the cause.

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Free consumables just actually nerfed much about the economy but that's another subject.

Free camo would also end another revenue source for WG..   Let's also not forget the COOP mains who many do not use Camo at all but save them for OPS etc.

Why bother will anything at all.  Stay on this track and if people have their ways every ship will be exactly the same.

BORING

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35 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Free premium consumables ------>Power creep...

I wouldn't be surprised if today's premium will be replaced by some other power creep option in a year or two.

I dont see a halt to the situation... Its not helping the cause.

They converted consumables to be standardized so that their wasnt a huge disadvantage between players that used them and players that didnt.

If giving all players the same standard of game play across the board is power creep, I dont know what power creep is...

25 minutes ago, Col_Nasty said:

Free consumables just actually nerfed much about the economy but that's another subject.

Free camo would also end another revenue source for WG..   Let's also not forget the COOP mains who many do not use Camo at all but save them for OPS etc.

Why bother will anything at all.  Stay on this track and if people have their ways every ship will be exactly the same.

BORING

Nerfed the economy? The silver credit economy? Again, it was to create equal footing between players that used them and players that didnt. 

Free type 1 or 5 camos that they give out for daily mission rewards dont have an effect on income unless the absolute worst players in the game are purchasing silver credits from the shop to buy basic, nearly free camos.

I also dont see how creating an equal playing field by giving type 1 or 5 camos makes the game more boring... You want ships on your team not running the basic dispersion and detectabilty buffs given by the most basic and cheapest silver credits only camo in the game?

Did I write something incorrectly in the original post or are you guys not mopping up what I'm spilling?

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1 hour ago, Skuggsja said:

With the upcoming change to consumables all being unified into premium I'd like another quality of life improvement: Permanent basic camo.

We've all seen it or done it, someone has not mounted or run out one of the 3 basic camos. Though it might not always be the biggest issue, in some ships it is a major disadvantage, like destroyers.

So if premium consumables can become the standard in hopes of equaling player performance, can we have the same apply for basic camo? Basically if a player doesnt mount a camouflage they should have Type 5 or Type 1 camo as the base instead of a ship with no camo.

I'm just throwing this out there to see what others think. In my mind making all consumables premium is much the same as mounting the most basic camo. It would help no players and prevent the "battle on" button from being so potentially dangerous.

I'm all for this camo idea. Since some camos come with extra buffs those could be added on prior to each battle at a cost like 100% XP boost - 15k credits, or 150% commander XP  - 25k credits, etc. Knowing WG they will make those only purchasable using doubloons.

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50 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Free premium consumables ------>Power creep...

I wouldn't be surprised if today's premium will be replaced by some other power creep option in a year or two.

I dont see a halt to the situation... Its not helping the cause.

I don't see how converting premium consumables into free ones is power creep.  If anything, it just means that lesser players who for whatever reasons don't use premium consumables now will be doing so in the future, placing them on a competitive playing field with players who normally use premium consumables.  

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2 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I don't see how converting premium consumables into free ones is power creep.  If anything, it just means that lesser players who for whatever reasons don't use premium consumables now will be doing so in the future, placing them on a competitive playing field with players who normally use premium consumables.  

Considering when I first started, the two options were decent options...Now, not anymore... You use premium only because its a better option, why is it a better option ??? Its been power creep-ed by nerfs and buffs of the other consumable option. 

I would not be surprised, if they create a new consumable option to replace the upcoming free one.

Its this some tactic, are being used to make premium ships over capable/over powered so that, people dont see tech ship as legitimate choices...

Limited choices cause by power creep will result in limited or dull play style, dull in game battles, and more complaints of mundane/monotones battles.

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Every ship that relied on DOT will have less effectIveness if everyone has premium damage control (and heal, when applicable) to mitigate the fires and floods.  
 

This change is a greater boon obviously to ships with more consumables than to those with fewer, so the gimmick ships again benefit more than those which play it straight.

Edited by Mono_De_Mantequilla
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27 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Considering when I first started, the two options were decent options...Now, not anymore... You use premium only because its a better option, why is it a better option ??? Its been power creep-ed by nerfs and buffs of the other consumable option. 

The option is to pay more credits to reduce reload time and have one more available consumable

(Edit: This is Nagato's damage repair as it was the ship I had selected)

For example:

Standard Damage Repair Party

- Repairs 390 HP per second 

- Action time 28 Seconds

- Reload Time 114 Seconds 

- Number of Consumables 3

Premium Damage Repair Party 

- Repairs 390 HP per second 

- Action time 28 Seconds

- Reload Time 76 Seconds 

- Number of Consumables 4

So giving everyone option 2 is power creep? Standardizing everyone to only the premium version does nothing but equal the playing field.

12 minutes ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

Every ship that relied on DOT will have less effectI’ve was if everyone has premium damage control (and heal, when applicable) to mitigate the fires and floods.  
 

This change is a greater boon obviously to ships with more consumables than to those with fewer, so the gimmick ships again benefit more than those which play it straight.

Every ship that relies on DOT will also have the ability to farm more damage from a ship that recovers HP. Also, having more consumables, does not equate to a player properly using said consumables.

(Edit: Also, the non premium consumable Des Moines will have to wait additional time before reusing his radar, again making him less effective than his Premium Consumable using counter part.)

Every single ship in game gets consumables and now they will all have the exact same amount. Your team having a Des Moines with 3 Charges of Radar is no longer less capable than the enemy Des Moines running premium that has 4 charges of radar.

Back on topic:

Providing Type 1 Camo reduces concealment by -3%.

Shimakaze running no camo, concealment skill or module has a 7.1km detection. Running Type 1 camo reduces that concealment to 6.9km.

Instead of having naked ships with +3% more detectabily, all ships would have Type 1 camo mounted if no other camouflage was selected by the player. Thus, removing another advantage created by players not running at least the most basic camouflage. Just like players not running premium consumables was deemed as too much of an advantage for those that do, perhaps Type 1 camo could become the standard as opposed to a naked ship to help new players and even the playing field. (Also, it would help players when you dont realize you ran out of a camo and hit the "battle on button.")

Edited by Skuggsja

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Dumbing down the game some more to cater to players who cannot be bothered to properly install Camo and premium consumables does not make things better, in my opinion.

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16 minutes ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

Dumbing down the game some more to cater to players who cannot be bothered to properly install Camo and premium consumables does not make things better, in my opinion.

I do see you point and generally would agree, but they're doing the premium consumable thing anyway so I figure why not make one if the basic camos standard.

Honestly though, as much as I'm ok with punishing someone on the enemy team for being naked, I wish it didn't happen on my team. Afterall, we all want to win the match and that seems like a potential advantage or disadvantage to one team right at the start.

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2 hours ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

Dumbing down the game some more to cater to players who cannot be bothered to properly install Camo and premium consumables does not make things better, in my opinion.

Considering 80% of the current player base never bothered to learn how to aim, read the mini map, etc. it's a necessary evil at this point.

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6 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Free premium consumables ------>Power creep...

I wouldn't be surprised if today's premium will be replaced by some other power creep option in a year or two.

I dont see a halt to the situation... Its not helping the cause.

 

5 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Considering when I first started, the two options were decent options...Now, not anymore... You use premium only because its a better option, why is it a better option ??? Its been power creep-ed by nerfs and buffs of the other consumable option. 

I would not be surprised, if they create a new consumable option to replace the upcoming free one.

Its this some tactic, are being used to make premium ships over capable/over powered so that, people dont see tech ship as legitimate choices...

Limited choices cause by power creep will result in limited or dull play style, dull in game battles, and more complaints of mundane/monotones battles.

Sorry, but that is nonsense.  There are lots of examples of powercreep in this game, but this is not one of them.  Consumables have not been changed like you state.  All the switch to  universal premium consumables at no cost does is even the playing field for those who couldn't afford to run premiums or didn't know about it.  Given that most of the consumables are defensive in nature it also, slightly, reduces the overall lethality of the game, which has definitely suffered powercreep.

If WG were to decide offenses have gotten too potent and start buffing ship's survivability, will you complain about powercreep?  I mean, that would technically be powercreep, but it would also be an attempt to restore a lower level of lethality as the game had earlier.

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7 hours ago, Skuggsja said:

I do see you point and generally would agree, but they're doing the premium consumable thing anyway so I figure why not make one if the basic camos standard.

Not part of the NTC plan thats why

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15 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Free premium consumables ------>Power creep...

Why? Are you suddenly worried now that the plebs will always have the same consumable load-out as you?

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14 hours ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

Dumbing down the game some more to cater to players who cannot be bothered to properly install Camo and premium consumables does not make things better, in my opinion.

dumbing down??

this is just a difference between the "haves" and the "have nots" I mean I don't run premium consumables or expendable camo's while grinding,  i can't afford to if i want to be able to buy that next ship up the line.

 

So I am the guy in the stock ship, still on A hull, without camos or premium consumables on your team...

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You do not need to buy the next ship as soon as you research it.  Do you not enjoy playing any ship that you are not "grinding" to get to the next one?  You should be able to earn enough credits by playing your lower-tier ships, to be able to afford to play them reasonably-well equipped.  A type1 (-3% detect) or type2 (+4% dispersion) camo only costs 7500 credits after all.

You do not need to run premium consumables on low-tier ships where the economy does not support their use.  I don't think most folks do.  Most low-tier ships have few consumables anyway, so if you wanted to use premium damage control and a low-cost expendable camo it should not break the bank.

WG gives out so many free bonus camos in every event, even as a relatively new player you should be bringing them in (as long as you are playing the event-eligible Tier V+ ships).  And the daily mission-chain rewards every month include a day of 24 type1, a day of 24 type2, a day of 12 type5 camo.  Also a day of premium consumable rewards for damage control, repair party, engine boost, radar, hydro...

If you are really worried about bringing down your team while you still have stock ships, you could try grinding out the modules in co-op.  Premium consumables do not tend to be very valuable in co-op since the battles are usually much shorter, and since your bot counterpart will also be running the A-hull, with no camo and stock consumables, you will not be at a disadvantage.

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23 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Free premium consumables ------>Power creep...

I wouldn't be surprised if today's premium will be replaced by some other power creep option in a year or two.

I dont see a halt to the situation... Its not helping the cause.

I don't think you understand what power creep means, because giving *everybody*  free premium consumables doesn't qualify.  

If anything, the current situation whereby you have to pay for premium consumables would be akin to power creep as some players don't make enough credits to afford them, so those players are using the "underpowered" consumables.

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2 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

I don't think you understand what power creep means, because giving *everybody*  free premium consumables doesn't qualify.  

If anything, the current situation whereby you have to pay for premium consumables would be akin to power creep as some players don't make enough credits to afford them, so those players are using the "underpowered" consumables.

Refer to post #7.

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1 hour ago, Mono_De_Mantequilla said:

You do not need to buy the next ship as soon as you research it.  Do you not enjoy playing any ship that you are not "grinding" to get to the next one?  You should be able to earn enough credits by playing your lower-tier ships, to be able to afford to play them reasonably-well equipped.  A type1 (-3% detect) or type2 (+4% dispersion) camo only costs 7500 credits after all.

You do not need to run premium consumables on low-tier ships where the economy does not support their use.  I don't think most folks do.  Most low-tier ships have few consumables anyway, so if you wanted to use premium damage control and a low-cost expendable camo it should not break the bank.

WG gives out so many free bonus camos in every event, even as a relatively new player you should be bringing them in (as long as you are playing the event-eligible Tier V+ ships).  And the daily mission-chain rewards every month include a day of 24 type1, a day of 24 type2, a day of 12 type5 camo.  Also a day of premium consumable rewards for damage control, repair party, engine boost, radar, hydro...

If you are really worried about bringing down your team while you still have stock ships, you could try grinding out the modules in co-op.  Premium consumables do not tend to be very valuable in co-op since the battles are usually much shorter, and since your bot counterpart will also be running the A-hull, with no camo and stock consumables, you will not be at a disadvantage.

It is still about haves and have nots...  I can't get to the next ship without grinding the current one, so I will do so... and I won't spend hours mindlessly killing bots when i earn more than double even in a loss in random.  You people with all the fancy stuff may just have to carry those of us without.  I will spend fxp on upgrading the ship if it is one of my primary lines... (IJN/GE in my case) but I won't spend the fxp (currently have less than 20k) I still need to save up on RN or USN for example, so those I will endure the stock grinds. (these are typically T6-T8)

I am down to my last 10mil, I am close to being able to unlock RU/GE/USN BB's for T8 (due to 200%), I need at least 5-6 times that to just buy those ships and fit them with modules, so regardless of which non-prem I am running it will likely be premium consumable and camo free.  The only places I will run prem consumables are premiums which I am not short of so I can grind the credits when/if i decide to sit down and do so.

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3 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

Refer to post #7.

The definition of power creep:

Power creep - The situation where updates to a game introduce more powerful units or abilities, leaving the older ones underpowered.  

Giving everybody free premium consumables doesn't meet anything in this definition.  The CURRENT situation, with standard consumable and purchasable premium consumables does qualify as power creep to a certain extent as some players can't afford to use premium consumables.

So in all actuality the exact opposite of your claim is happening.  Your response in post #7 is just non-sensical.

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2 minutes ago, Aaron_S_Merrill said:

  Your response in post #7 is just non-sensical.

I Respect your POV even if we disagree....

Edited by Navalpride33

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1 minute ago, Navalpride33 said:

I Respect your POV even if we disagree....

Just curious, why do you have a habit of editing out large chunks of a persons's posts? Particularly the pertinent parts?

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in very simple terms.... if the game was balanced around everyone running around with premium consumables.. and yet people weren't using them as much as WG had expected.... could that have introduced some imbalance?

How would you balance the game?  I think they would have to balance around prem consumables or risk things being even more op, or is that a wrong assumption?

At least by standardizing consumables it's one less variable in the balance equation.

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14 hours ago, SKurj said:

dumbing down??

this is just a difference between the "haves" and the "have nots" I mean I don't run premium consumables or expendable camo's while grinding,  i can't afford to if i want to be able to buy that next ship up the line.

 

So I am the guy in the stock ship, still on A hull, without camos or premium consumables on your team...

Without camo you are actively hurting your own ability to grind, the small bonuses to concealment and enemy dispersion can be the difference between life and death that swings the match or just allows you to get one more kill/10k more damage which gives you more xp/silver.

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