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Ensign_Cthulhu

Stepping Up: Quick Notes on New Ships. Monarch --> Lion

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This is something new I'm trying, in which I detail my experiences moving into new ships along the tech tree. Constructive criticism on the structure of these posts is invited.

THE OLD:

Tier 8 Monarch, widely regarded as one of the worst ships in the BB line at Tier 8, and not without good reason. Her guns are horrifically short ranged compared to some ships at her tier and the guns themselves aren't exactly barn-burners, being your typical RN 15 inch, albeit she has nine of them. She used to have disgustingly good concealment, better than many cruisers (and still better than some0, but this advantage largely vanished when the concealment expert skill was normalised to 10% for all ship types. This ship took me a long time to get through, but it was mostly because of lack of motivation. When I made up my mind to do well in her, she performed admirably - and indeed she is one of only four ships in which I have scored a Kraken. I will be keeping her, and when I have the ECXP to spare I will put a 10 pointer in her with a tank build.

 

THE NEW:

Lion, at Tier 9, has some immediate advantages over Monarch. Her guns are bigger, her fire chance is higher, and she shoots further straight out of the box than the Monarch does fully upgraded. So I am already one step ahead before any of the upgrade slots are filled. She has fewer HP stock than the Monarch does fully buffed, but this is no surprise. However, in comparison to her Tier 8 sister - which I have sometimes chosen to regard as the slowest and most heavily armed battlecruiser in the game  - she accelerates like a poleaxed sloth and steers like a drunken pig on Valium, and her turret rotation demands several boxes of WD40. She really wants a captain with Expert Marksman, and once I put my BB-specialised 19 pointer (Jack Dunkirk) in her and fully retrained him, the ship felt a LOT better. Half a dozen battles and she was performing to spec; I had a couple of co-op slugfests with 80-100K damage each, and I was happy.

Being a Tier 9 ship, she really demands a good Random battle to be sure of profitability. Tier 9 is in an awkward place without the extra boost in service cost reduction that the tier 10 ships get from their permacamos, and if you're going to play her a lot in co-op then a permacamo and premium time are essential unless you're swimming in so many credits that you don't even care or you've got Zulu (+20% credit earning) and India Bravo Terrathree (-10% service costs) flags to burn.

Her fire chance is as notorious as advertised, but my first night in the ship didn't offer much opportunity to check it out. I was still getting used to the guns and my hit rate wasn't what it could be, in addition to which I was upgrading her in stages - first with no modules at all and a zero point captain, then with the modules and finally the fully skilled, battleship-oriented 19 pointer.

I did also check her AP shells out, and they should not be neglected against anything that offers broadside. At some stage I hope we are offered a British special commander with the enhanced Expert Loader skill (i.e. -75% time to swap from AP to HE instead of -50%) similar to Halsey and Sansonetti, because the incendiary notoriety of her HE main armament masks a potentially very productive AP capability.

This is my module selection:

image.thumb.png.958ac5b7da348d094d31426b92d28743.png

I decided to go with a range build both to be more competitive against this ship's contemporaries and to avoid the 15% penalty in turret rotation that goes with the Slot Six reload buff. It's bad enough as it is: 45 seconds out of the box. With the captain's enhanced turret rotation skill, I have it down to 36 seconds. I could have got it down even further with the turret rotation mod in slot 3, but I elected to minimize my dispersion at long range.

This is my captain build:

image.thumb.png.08f9da54eb135c80db86bcd34a811fab.png

If I were starting from scratch with any nonspecialised captain, I would take Priority Target, Expert Marksman, Superintendent (for the extra heal) and Fire Prevention for the first 10 points, later filling in with Basics of Survivability, Concealment Expert and either High Alert in a nonspecialised captain or Jack of All Trades in Jack Dunkirk or his brother Bert. The proliferation of ultra-rapid-fire destroyers and light cruisers at these high tiers made me prefer a survival build over a concealment one, but if you already have a BB captain with concealment expert for the first 4-point skill, it's nothing to tear your hair out over; make Fire Prevention the long-term goal.

 

WHAT DID IT COST?

I dressed my Lion in a Tier 9 permacamo that I won in last year's Halloween: Raid for the Filth event. A standard permacamo will set you back 4000 doubloons for the same functionality. The ship cost me a little over 13.5M credits with clan discounts, the modules another 6.875M and cutting the retraining fee in half was another 200,000 credits for a bit over 20 million all up. Grinding everything out and getting to the Conqueror will take you 390,000 XP, or to put it another way, a bit under a hundred days at 4000 XP a night. The express version through the B hull only is 309K. That's still not a grind I'll be tackling in any great rush.

 

At this stage you can expect Episode 2 to be about the Amagi. Let me know if there's anything I failed to cover that you think I should include for next time, or for edits to this first episode.

  • Cool 3

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IMO, for non specialized captains, Adrenaline Rush is going to be a better skill than High Alert for almost any ship.  The bonus to Jack of all Trades with the Dunkirk captains is good when combined with signals for when you need to print a new ship.  I don't know why you're so worried about your turret speed, since RN BB's aren't brawlers by any regard.  If you're running enhanced Expert Marksman, you can slot the reload mod in spite of the traverse speed penalty (it should mostly offset) so you can put more ordinance downrange.  And the likelihood of hitting anything at those extreme ranges is minimal with dispersion.  She has better range than the Soyuz, Fat Freddy and Alsace, only lags behind the Izumo by a kilometer, leaving Jean Bart, Iowa and Musashi to outrange her.  Musashi isn't a fair comparison for the T9 ships as she is a T10 ship with T10 range.  Lion has better concealment than the lot of them, so that can mitigate her shorter range.  But at the end of the day, it is your ship, so you can specialize it however you see fit.

Amagi is a fine ship too, she got my T8 Filth camo.

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I've always enjoyed playing the manarch…. good battleship

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I liked the Monarch much better than the Lion. Had almost unicum-like stats with the Monarch in the 21 games I played in it. And I'm barely an average player. Anyway, thanks for the write up.

 

 

Capture.JPG

Captureh.JPG

Edited by Colonel_Potter

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

This is something new I'm trying, in which I detail my experiences moving into new ships along the tech tree. Constructive criticism on the structure of these posts is invited.

THE OLD:

Tier 8 Monarch, widely regarded as one of the worst ships in the BB line at Tier 8, and not without good reason. Her guns are horrifically short ranged compared to some ships at her tier and the guns themselves aren't exactly barn-burners, being your typical RN 15 inch, albeit she has nine of them. She used to have disgustingly good concealment, better than many cruisers (and still better than some0, but this advantage largely vanished when the concealment expert skill was normalised to 10% for all ship types. This ship took me a long time to get through, but it was mostly because of lack of motivation. When I made up my mind to do well in her, she performed admirably - and indeed she is one of only four ships in which I have scored a Kraken. I will be keeping her, and when I have the ECXP to spare I will put a 10 pointer in her with a tank build.

 

THE NEW:

Lion, at Tier 9, has some immediate advantages over Monarch. Her guns are bigger, her fire chance is higher, and she shoots further straight out of the box than the Monarch does fully upgraded. So I am already one step ahead before any of the upgrade slots are filled. She has fewer HP stock than the Monarch does fully buffed, but this is no surprise. However, in comparison to her Tier 8 sister - which I have sometimes chosen to regard as the slowest and most heavily armed battlecruiser in the game  - she accelerates like a poleaxed sloth and steers like a drunken pig on Valium, and her turret rotation demands several boxes of WD40. She really wants a captain with Expert Marksman, and once I put my BB-specialised 19 pointer (Jack Dunkirk) in her and fully retrained him, the ship felt a LOT better. Half a dozen battles and she was performing to spec; I had a couple of co-op slugfests with 80-100K damage each, and I was happy.

Being a Tier 9 ship, she really demands a good Random battle to be sure of profitability. Tier 9 is in an awkward place without the extra boost in service cost reduction that the tier 10 ships get from their permacamos, and if you're going to play her a lot in co-op then a permacamo and premium time are essential unless you're swimming in so many credits that you don't even care or you've got Zulu (+20% credit earning) and India Bravo Terrathree (-10% service costs) flags to burn.

Her fire chance is as notorious as advertised, but my first night in the ship didn't offer much opportunity to check it out. I was still getting used to the guns and my hit rate wasn't what it could be, in addition to which I was upgrading her in stages - first with no modules at all and a zero point captain, then with the modules and finally the fully skilled, battleship-oriented 19 pointer.

I did also check her AP shells out, and they should not be neglected against anything that offers broadside. At some stage I hope we are offered a British special commander with the enhanced Expert Loader skill (i.e. -75% time to swap from AP to HE instead of -50%) similar to Halsey and Sansonetti, because the incendiary notoriety of her HE main armament masks a potentially very productive AP capability.

This is my module selection:

image.thumb.png.958ac5b7da348d094d31426b92d28743.png

I decided to go with a range build both to be more competitive against this ship's contemporaries and to avoid the 15% penalty in turret rotation that goes with the Slot Six reload buff. It's bad enough as it is: 45 seconds out of the box. With the captain's enhanced turret rotation skill, I have it down to 36 seconds. I could have got it down even further with the turret rotation mod in slot 3, but I elected to minimize my dispersion at long range.

This is my captain build:

image.thumb.png.08f9da54eb135c80db86bcd34a811fab.png

If I were starting from scratch with any nonspecialised captain, I would take Priority Target, Expert Marksman, Superintendent (for the extra heal) and Fire Prevention for the first 10 points, later filling in with Basics of Survivability, Concealment Expert and either High Alert in a nonspecialised captain or Jack of All Trades in Jack Dunkirk or his brother Bert. The proliferation of ultra-rapid-fire destroyers and light cruisers at these high tiers made me prefer a survival build over a concealment one, but if you already have a BB captain with concealment expert for the first 4-point skill, it's nothing to tear your hair out over; make Fire Prevention the long-term goal.

 

WHAT DID IT COST?

I dressed my Lion in a Tier 9 permacamo that I won in last year's Halloween: Raid for the Filth event. A standard permacamo will set you back 4000 doubloons for the same functionality. The ship cost me a little over 13.5M credits with clan discounts, the modules another 6.875M and cutting the retraining fee in half was another 200,000 credits for a bit over 20 million all up. Grinding everything out and getting to the Conqueror will take you 390,000 XP, or to put it another way, a bit under a hundred days at 4000 XP a night. The express version through the B hull only is 309K. That's still not a grind I'll be tackling in any great rush.

 

At this stage you can expect Episode 2 to be about the Amagi. Let me know if there's anything I failed to cover that you think I should include for next time, or for edits to this first episode.

My first battle in lion was love at first salvo....

4 fires and a 16k HE damage on a Mushi.

Before they nerfed the citadel, she was tanky as all get out.

I still like her better than conquer. 

 

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Good write up.  I finished the Minarch awhile ago, waiting for a sale to buy the Lion.  I found Monarch's RoF + AR could put out some good dpm in the right context.

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I honestly sold the Monarch cause it's a fantasy ship and doublooned to Lion and Conqueror. I just got the Vanguard which is better statistically don't think I'd have enjoyed Monarch. They all got those QE 15 guns that aren't bad but typically ain't fitting the UK BB players playstyle. Given how many battles you've played, UK BB is probably not reflective of your playstyle but you get the point. 

Love Lion and Conqueror even though it's been powercrept a bit and I am often the only one(especially in Lion don't think I've seen another Lion in ranked, Conqueror was common in rando, but in ranked seems players are opting for other ships).  

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8 hours ago, Batmantis_ said:

IMO, for non specialized captains, Adrenaline Rush is going to be a better skill than High Alert for almost any ship. 

Your point is noted, but I'm wary of taking Adrenaline Rush in a ship whose heal is as powerful as the high-tier British BBs, Nelson or Salem. It seems to me that you are taking a skill which at various points you undo by design, and the points are better used elsewhere. Adrenaline Rush is actually quite rare on any of my ships, and if we get another free respec at any stage I will seriously consider removing it from all my captains.

6 hours ago, Aristotle83 said:

sold the Monarch cause it's a fantasy ship

It was one of the serious what-ifs on the road to what eventually became the KGV class, and came very close to getting the nod. I think it has a worthwhile place in the game, and it provides a relatively smooth progression between ten 14-inch guns in the KGV and nine 16-inch guns in the Lions. The only realistic alternatives were to put Vanguard in at Tier 8 or make Rodney (Nelson's sister ship) the Tier 7 and KGV the T8 with some sort of tweak to make her 14 inch guns competitive.

8 hours ago, Colonel_Potter said:

I liked the Monarch much better than the Lion.

I certainly liked mine better than the KGV. That ship and I did not get along for some reason, and I was relieved to move up to the T8.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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Nice write up, +1. :cap_like:

I advanced to the Monarch several weeks ago, but haven't made much progress on it as I've been working on other lines/ships/etc.  Will probably get back to it this weekend if I get the time.  I do like it more, so far, than the KGV, but that's been mostly in co-op play.  Quite a bit more to grind in it to get to the Lion.  I've also had Amagi for quite awhile; slowly working it, Ibuki (INJ T9 CA) and Iowa up to Izumo, Montana and Zao, respectively.  Again, the Amagi for me has been a slow grind.  I also need to get working on my Edinburgh and get to Neptune sometime.  May have just outlined my tasks for the coming week of 200% games.  :cap_look:

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3 minutes ago, chrisope said:

May have just outlined my tasks for the coming week of 200% games.  

:Smile_veryhappy:

My current frustration is that very few of the ships I want to grind in the 200% week are valid for the Strong-Willed campaign.

I've got 90K XP standing in the way of the Amagi and about 162K in the case of the Vladivostok. The Sinop, like the Maass, is still practically straight out of the box.

40,000 to get from Vasteras to Skane.

Not enough credits to get them all.

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5 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

My current frustration is that very few of the ships I want to grind in the 200% week are valid for the Strong-Willed campaign.

I understand that.  I'll be trying to balance the campaign with grinding a few ships and adding ECXP with my two 19 pointers. I bit the bullet and advanced Yamamoto the other day to 19 points from nearly 16; so now I have he and Tsar Ovechkin getting me ECXP.  My next task ECXP-wise will be to get a USN captain to 19 points; probably Doe or Halsey (Doe is on my MO, haven't used Halsey anywhere yet). And, as I've written elsewhere, work the campaigns.

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Nice write up.  I pretty much bad the same thoughts as you considering the Lion and the Monarch.  I finally bought the Conqueror and will be giving her a shot soon.  

One of the best things to remember in these two BBs is when to disengage and use that monster heal.  There were a few times where I pushed too hard thinking I can take on a cruiser and wind up eating damage from a long distance Musashi shot.  

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5 minutes ago, chrisope said:

 I bit the bullet and advanced Yamamoto the other day to 19 points from nearly 16; so now I have he and Tsar Ovechkin getting me ECXP.

I had a Japanese 14 pointer and my Fishy Space Battles captain vying for that honour until I pulled my finger out and finished the Yamamoto campaign. Yamamoto instantly leapfrogged them both, becoming my senior candidate with 15 points out of the box. After I got him to 19 points, it no longer made sense to concentrate on his countryman immediately and Fishy will get the next slot. Technically the next nearest is Halsey, but I already have a US captain so the one after Fishy will probably be the French captain I have in my Jean Bart. 

The more nations I have at least one 19 pointer in, the better. Then I will concentrate on doubling up. The only one I have two in is Britain, and I had to spend dearly to put Jack Dunkirk in the Lion last night. 125,000 pts took a big chunk out of the reserves, but at least now the ship is at full efficiency and he can start making it back immediately.

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1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The more nations I have at least one 19 pointer in, the better. Then I will concentrate on doubling up.

I'm trying to follow that advise also.  I know the USN one should be quick (I have 1.5 million + ECXP now), and russian and german should follow fairly quickly with two 19 pointers being used (as long as I remember to use them on any given day).  UK and french will take a bit longer, and no plans right now for the pan-asian and pan-europe lines for a 19 pointer, as I'm still at T6 or T7 in those and have minimal captains since they are only DD lines for the time being.

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Thanks for the write up @Ensign_Cthulhu. Currently stuck on the KFC and just can't find the motivation to grind on it. Hopefully the Monarch will be better once I get there.

 

Edit: Dang autocorrect, should be KGV but it made me chuckle when I noticed it, so I'll leave it there :cap_haloween:

Edited by contag10n

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