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Gemlin

[SUGGESTION] Manual Secondaries Change

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I think if you pick the captains manual secondary skill, it should act as follows:

I'd like to see your ships secondaries work as if you didn't have manual secondaries, AS LONG AS YOU DON"T HAVE A TARGET SELECTED as your secondary gun target.

If you select a target for your secondaries, then the skill works exactly how it works right now. It only shoots at that target and its hit rate, dispersion is as it is currently. Once the ship is sunk or the player deselects the secondary target, the secondaries returns to function like you didn't have the skill.

 

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Thats a great idea. 

 

I also think secondaries should bhe able to shoot from both sides of the ship simultaneously.  It makes no sense that guns can only shoot off one side of the ship. We are at battle stations. Do people actually think a ship is only crewed enough to shoot AA guns or secondaries off one side of the ship?

 

Fix it!

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2 minutes ago, Gemlin said:

I think if you pick the captains manual secondary skill, it should act as follows:

I'd like to see your ships secondaries work as if you didn't have manual secondaries, AS LONG AS YOU DON"T HAVE A TARGET SELECTED as your secondary gun target.

If you select a target for your secondaries, then the skill works exactly how it works right now. It only shoots at that target and its hit rate, dispersion is as it is currently. Once the ship is sunk or the player deselects the secondary target, the secondaries returns to function like you didn't have the skill.

 

So basically have your cake and eat it too?

I think the skill is balanced the way it is.  You are rewarded for the increased workload and risk choosing this skill brings.  Doing as you describe would leave no downside and make the skill a ' no brainer' which Wargaming has said they want to avoid for any and all Captain skills.

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It leaves a massive downside. If you spec full secondaries you have to choose between fire prevention, superintendent and concealment. You will only get 1 of those 3.

Just now, Gunga_Dinner said:

So basically have your cake and eat it too?

I think the skill is balanced the way it is.  You are rewarded for the increased workload and risk choosing this skill brings.  Doing as you describe would leave no downside and make the skill a ' no brainer' which Wargaming has said they want to avoid for any and all Captain skills.

 

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An consideration to this would be to have  passive skill unlocks for type specific builds with captain skills. 

For example if you use 11 captain points that are specifically used for a full secondary build then this unlocks the passive ability associated with spending those points.

 That way it would allow those who are using over 50% of your captains skill points for a specific function to get something unique from it other than a limited functionality. 

I am not saying make it game breaking but even a 10-15% rate of fire increase or reload increase would give the points used a more satisfying end rather than feeling like all or nothing. Or increased range for German secondaries.

You could even make it nation specific for greater depth as this would more playable options and replayability. 

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29 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

So basically have your cake and eat it too?

I think the skill is balanced the way it is.  You are rewarded for the increased workload and risk choosing this skill brings.  Doing as you describe would leave no downside and make the skill a ' no brainer' which Wargaming has said they want to avoid for any and all Captain skills.

So, where does that leave Concealment? Apart from the four points it takes to have it, where is it’s necessary downside? You concealment users are having their cake and eating it, too?

Uhhh, fire prevention? Demolition expert? Last stand? Expert marksman? Expert loader? Priority target? Preventive maintenance? AFT? BFT?

Adrenaline rush and the increased rate of fire it brings? Where’s its built-in downside?

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44 minutes ago, Gemlin said:

I'd like to see your ships secondaries work as if you didn't have manual secondaries, AS LONG AS YOU DON"T HAVE A TARGET SELECTED as your secondary gun target.

It would be over powered. If they reduced the accuracy of the manually aimed ones a bit then it would be balanced - but then folks probably wouldn't pick it either. 

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33 minutes ago, megahugenoob said:

It leaves a massive downside. If you spec full secondaries you have to choose between fire prevention, superintendent and concealment. You will only get 1 of those 3.

 

Well, you can at least get rid of one of those choices.  If you plan on using your secondaries enough that Manual Secondaries would be beneficial, then you're going to be close enough that concealment expert isn't going be useful.

But I am curious, you say there is a massive downside.  Can you elaborate?  I am also saying there is a downside, your secondaries don't fire unless you specify a target.  I think that is balanced and fair fit what you get when you do specify a target and spend the skill points.  What do you mean?

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44 minutes ago, Gemlin said:

I think if you pick the captains manual secondary skill, it should act as follows:

I'd like to see your ships secondaries work as if you didn't have manual secondaries, AS LONG AS YOU DON"T HAVE A TARGET SELECTED as your secondary gun target.

If you select a target for your secondaries, then the skill works exactly how it works right now. It only shoots at that target and its hit rate, dispersion is as it is currently. Once the ship is sunk or the player deselects the secondary target, the secondaries returns to function like you didn't have the skill.

 

Not a Bad idea m8. So if your target gets sunk and youre in the middle of a firefight your dumbed down reqular secondaries get turned back on. Interesting . Don't see how that would really affect the game any, as you still are a secondary specd ship either way. So you gain a perk with your investment of 4 points that aren't cheap be any standard . Allowing you to have regular secondaries upon you target sinking wouldn't be bad.  IMO. :Smile_honoring:

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Since we are talking about a 4 point, primarily MEME worthy skill...I can't see how it would be overpowered to have it work as normal without a target selected.  It would still be a secondaries build and therefore still be just for "giggles".  Be basically the same mechanic is sector AA...one side gets stronger while the other gets weaker.

Currently it is one of only two 4 point skills with a downside, the other being IFHE, which was actually overpowered.

I don't see any reason really that this would be overpowered in any way.  Cake and eat it too...Yes - but again we are talking a skill that is primarily used for the giggle factor.  It will never be the primary skill for any spec.

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1 hour ago, megahugenoob said:

Thats a great idea. 

 

I also think secondaries should bhe able to shoot from both sides of the ship simultaneously.  It makes no sense that guns can only shoot off one side of the ship. We are at battle stations. Do people actually think a ship is only crewed enough to shoot AA guns or secondaries off one side of the ship?

 

Fix it!

Tell that to the AA guys...

"Capn' torpedo bombers on port and rockets on starboard. What are your orders?"

"Midway torps and Shokaku rockets, eh? Alright men, drop your stuff and head to port side"

*ship leans left*

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25 minutes ago, FullMetal_Inferno said:

Tell that to the AA guys...

"Capn' torpedo bombers on port and rockets on starboard. What are your orders?"

"Midway torps and Shokaku rockets, eh? Alright men, drop your stuff and head to port side"

*ship leans left*

AA still functions on both sides of the ship, even if sectored.

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17 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

AA still functions on both sides of the ship, even if sectored.

But at a penalty (unless they changed it...haven't played in awhile).

When you priority select a side it increases that side by nerfing the unselected side.

1 hour ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

Currently it is one of only two 4 point skills with a downside, the other being IFHE, which was actually overpowered.

(Actually it's 1 of 3)

W/the 4 point AA commander skill it increased the selected side more & nerfs the unselected side even more.

Unfortunately it (the nerf to the unselected side) isn't listed in the (4 point) skill definition that the nerf occurs...it just does.

As I said I haven't played in a (fairly long) while & AA has been changed since then but not sure if that has as I'm not sure of the exact changes.

As per the OPs suggestion...I believe that when no target is selected w/manual 2ndaries that the ships base stat 2ndaries (w/out any upgrades or commander skills applied) should function...as an alternative.

 

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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All I ask for is when you ACTIVE the manual secondaries (By selecting a Ship with the Control Key), the skill activates, with all the bonuses.

If no ship is selected, your secondaries work just like you didn't have the skill, no captain skill bonuses from the manual secondary skill.

That way if I chose to sail between two ships and I want my secondaries to fire at both, I don't CONTROL select any ships and they secondaries work like I didn't have the skill and fire at both ships.

If I want to concentrate on one ship, I control click it, and now all my secondaries focus on that ship with all the captain bonuses of the skill.

 

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3 hours ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

Well, you can at least get rid of one of those choices.  If you plan on using your secondaries enough that Manual Secondaries would be beneficial, then you're going to be close enough that concealment expert isn't going be useful.

But I am curious, you say there is a massive downside.  Can you elaborate?  I am also saying there is a downside, your secondaries don't fire unless you specify a target.  I think that is balanced and fair fit what you get when you do specify a target and spend the skill points.  What do you mean?

Sure,

I think we can all agree that by exposing yourself your going to be taking more damage. The current meta encourages island camping, HE Spam and torp soup.  By not sitting back and using cover you are going to attract more of all of that.

Secondaries generally dont shoot over islands either so you need to have direct line of sight in MOST instances which again causes you to expose yourself.

Secondary damage is not fast enough / deadly enough to warrant exposing yourself in most situations.  Most ships run concealment so if a  GK or Mass or something is charging them, most of the time they will reverse and continue to spam HE on you or disengage by going dark. Not to mention Secondary batteries can get destroyed so you are forced to use your modules to prevent that which further limits the  utility of your ship.

Some GK Specific issues: My GK has 15.9 KM spotting range in its 2ndary build.   This means on almost every map I am getting spammed with  shells before I can even get to cover. Its not uncommon at all for me to lose 15-30% of my life before I get to safety.  The GK has a massive superstructure and is the biggest boat in the game. So just shooting in the right time zone is gonna get you something.   I have to expose full broadside to bring my rear guns into action also.  The armor is a double edged sword because its thickness actually causes shells to reliably pen and prim rather than overpen.   Lets not forget, even with a secondary spec, it improves the AA on the GK.  EVen with that, this ship is still absolute garbage at protecting itself from air strikes.  Seeing that you are the size of a small planet, you are not agile, and your gonna be up near caps you make the most inviting target.

 

Long and the short of it, if you overcome all of the above and manage to get into 2ndary range its not an obscene request that your ship be able to shoot at ships on both sides of you. I really dont see a scenario where GK's are yoloing through a cap guns blazing burning everyone down with secondaries. Its never gonna happen.

Edited by megahugenoob

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On 4/30/2020 at 3:03 PM, Gemlin said:

I'd like to see your ships secondaries work as if you didn't have manual secondaries, AS LONG AS YOU DON"T HAVE A TARGET SELECTED as your secondary gun target.

This is absolutely a great idea.

It makes sense in a lot of niche situations. For example, if I'm going through the roaster in the 200% xp weekend, and in a BB that I forgot having opted for manual secondaries; or another example, if my brother is playing in my account, not realizing that I have opted for manual secondaries in a lot of my BBs.

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Id still like to see this added.

Manual secondaries "Bonus' and dispersion" doesn't activate until I control-click a ship. Otherwise it acts like every other ship. (Fires secondaries without the bonus'es)

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