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Crownlol

Are Premiums an effective trainer/grinder for new lines?

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To be clear, I'm not asking what I assume is a common newbie question ("hOw Do i rUsH tIeR 10!?"), rather asking about efficient commander and line grinding.  I'm happy playing at my T7/T8 level for the meantime while I work to unlock T10 the regular way.

However, I'm a bit of an altoholic.  I'm also terrible with Commander management (until recently I was buying the new 3pt commander with every new tier).  I'd like to farm a new line, but the idea of going back to T1/T2 to play up to T8, paying for my commander to follow me the whole way, seems inefficient.  If I *know* there's a new line I want to play, wouldn't it be best to buy a T7/T8 Premium (I'm itching to buy a bote anyway), buy a 10pt Commander, and farm out the Free XP equivalent of the tech tree grind?  That way my commander wouldn't have to keep starting over, and once I get the tech tree up to where the Premium is, I can just swap him over.  Though I guess I'd only have one Commander with full points for two boats...

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Crown

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just use the premium to retrain the commander with each new ship and pay nothing

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There are two ways to go about doing this.

The first involves acquiring large numbers of premium ships to cover off all your nations and ship types. That can get very expensive very quickly, although there are opportunities from time to time to win premium ships in-game, obtain them for coal or FXP, or through contests on people's YouTube or Twitch streams. Watch out for those.

The second involves picking ONE captain in ONE ship that you really like, and can play until the cows come home. That captain will be your first 19 pointer.  

The premium ship you obtain is in that nation, and preferably of the same type as the chosen ship of the chosen captain, although there is room for leeway in many cases (cruiser and battleship captains cross over OK, but neither go all that well in DD unless it's a cruiser captain who already has Last Stand). You play that captain in both ships each day, religiously, until they become a 19 pointer and start accumulating Elite Commander XP. Then that captain does all the heavy lifting, and you use the ECXP to retrain other captains as they move up from ship to ship, and/or to promote THEM to 19 pointers so they can help carry the load. 

See here:

 Let me know if you want to discuss specifics of the ships you play, what you are considering buying, etc.

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Yes, newer players can benefit from having premium ships as captain trainers. The keys to having a good trainer are:

1. The premium ship HAS to be in the nation of the tech tree line you’re getting it for.

2. The skills suitable for the premium ship need to match up to those suitable for the tech tree line into which you will be assigning the captains.

3. You should like playing, and be able to perform well in, that premium ship.

Now, once you get to the point of having an array of 29-point captains in your service providing you a steady stream of Elite Commander XP, then that pool of XP becomes your “captain trainer,” which then obviates the need for premium ships as trainers.

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Crownlol,

Your question does not have a simple answer.  I would research the ship first and LWM (Little White Mouse) has great reviews of the premium ships and usually says something like the commander specs are the same for the tech tree ships.  The reason why I say this is because some premium ships are not the same as the tech tree ships.  A perfect example is the Massachusetts.  It plays more like a German BB than the other US Battleships in the tech tree.  That is just an example, but definitely not the only one.  Once you are sure that you will not need different skills than the tech tree, using a premium ship to build commanders is not a bad idea.  You can move commanders between their trained ship and the premium for free, so in essence you can have one commander for two different ships.

I know people who love playing the premium ships so they put all their commanders on them for training to get them to 19 point commanders and then put them back on their original ship and then start over with another commander.  The first person that comes to mind has the Kamikaze (something something, maybe R) and loves to play it.  It uses the same skills as the rest of the Japanese Destroyer line and he uses it to raise all his commanders to 19 pointers for that line.

Hopefully this helps and gives you some direction.

C130 signing out

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4 minutes ago, MannyD_of_The_Sea said:

an array of 29-point captains

Whoopsy, typo! 

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37 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

There are two ways to go about doing this.

The first involves acquiring large numbers of premium ships to cover off all your nations and ship types. That can get very expensive very quickly, although there are opportunities from time to time to win premium ships in-game, obtain them for coal or FXP, or through contests on people's YouTube or Twitch streams. Watch out for those.

The second involves picking ONE captain in ONE ship that you really like, and can play until the cows come home. That captain will be your first 19 pointer.  

The premium ship you obtain is in that nation, and preferably of the same type as the chosen ship of the chosen captain, although there is room for leeway in many cases (cruiser and battleship captains cross over OK, but neither go all that well in DD unless it's a cruiser captain who already has Last Stand). You play that captain in both ships each day, religiously, until they become a 19 pointer and start accumulating Elite Commander XP. Then that captain does all the heavy lifting, and you use the ECXP to retrain other captains as they move up from ship to ship, and/or to promote THEM to 19 pointers so they can help carry the load. 

See here:

 Let me know if you want to discuss specifics of the ships you play, what you are considering buying, etc.

This is super helpful, thank you!

 

Specifically, here's my current plan:

 

**Main**

USN BBs.  Currently about 1/2 through Colorado, Captain is 11pts.  Thinking of buying Massachusets to make this grind more bearable, I love the 406s but these things are so effing slow.  However, buying a Premium so close to my main seems a little... pointless?

 

**Primary Alt**

RN CAs.  I hear these kinda suck and I'm looking to switch to:

 

**New Primary Alt**

USN CAs.  These seem awesome, especially Des Moines.  None of my "crew" play USN Cruisers, so we have no Surveillance radar.  However, I have no xp in this line at all.  Seems to be a good place to buy a Premium.

 

**Top Premium Wants**

Mainz.  I really want to play a fast-firing T8 Cruiser.  I was hoping to use this Premium to farm Free XP to unlock the USN CA line, but now that I think about it, it would be a wasted captain outside of being a fun ship to play.

Dunquerque.  I think the next BB line I want to play after USN is French, they just seem to have some really neat ships and I'm the only BB player in my group.

Sharnhorst: Already own it, love it.

 

(Obviously, I like playing gunbotes)

Edited by Crownlol

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29 minutes ago, Crownlol said:

However, buying a Premium so close to my main seems a little... pointless?

It doesn't matter what tier the Premium is, so long as you do well in it and it's at Tier 5 or better so you can run directive missions with it. However, the Massachusetts is a bad choice for a trainer if you're a newer player. To get the most out of it demands a captain with a skill set tilted heavily towards its secondary battery, which is not what the US tech-tree battleships need.

When I was a n00b, I bought the Texas. The ship was cheap (and I think still is, look at the premium shop when you're logged in via the main site and you might find a special offer price), she's basically a New York with much better light AA. An alternative might be the West Virginia 41, which is Colorado a tier lower and lets you run her in the majority of the Operations scenarios. You will at least be familiar with that. I think the Life Ring offer which raises funds for veterans' mental health is still running, and if it is and IF you buy her, you should get her that way & do a little extra good with your money. The alternative at Tier 8 to the Massa is the Alabama.  Georgia is available for coal, but like Massachusetts she is an oddball and a stand-out. Arizona is, roughly speaking, a premium New Mexico at the same tier with better accuracy.

Link to Little White Mouse's ship reviews: 

 

29 minutes ago, Crownlol said:

USN CAs.

Marblehead is available for 34,000 coal at Tier 5. She is a light cruiser, but you will have to grind through her tech tree sister Omaha to get to the heavies anyway. She is tolerable, NOT ideal, as a trainer for battleship and destroyer captains. She is fragile and will teach you the virtues of positioning yourself so as to shoot lots and get shot at less. In the more remote future is Salem, for around about 250,000 coal. She is a long-term proposition. She is a premium Des Moines, with some changes including a bonus on her post-battle service costs that makes her very cheap to run for a Tier 10 ship. She heals better but her radar isn't as good. I got mine at the end of 2018 after about six months of coal grinding (More Resources containers ALWAYS) and using the appropriate coupon in the Armory, and I have over half a million XP on her. 

29 minutes ago, Crownlol said:

Mainz.  I really want to play a fast-firing T8 Cruiser.  I was hoping to use this Premium to farm Free XP to unlock the USN CA line, but now that I think about it, it would be a wasted captain outside of being a fun ship to play.

Save your FXP for premium ships. The problem with unlocking the higher tiers of a line is that you're not familiar with its peculiarities, so you get punished hard and disheartened easily. Believe me when I say that the slow way is the safe way. If you were climbing the German cruiser line (and it's not a bad one), Mainz would probably not be a bad investment... but tech-tree Cleveland will give you much the same sort of gameplay with radar thrown in, and if you finish the American Cruisers collection I think you get a free permacamo for her (get a container for 1000 coal in the armory for the first piece and the rest drop in daily containers over time). 

The Public Test Server is a good place to check out tech tree ship lines you might want to climb, although it's only available intermittently.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/?category=public-test 

I can't speak to the Dunkerque because I don't own her, but I quite liked the French battleships from Tier 5 on up to 7. I'm currently somewhat stalled at Tier 8 through being distracted by other things!  T3 and T4 were forgettable, but fortunately not too much work to get through.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu
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One issue with using a premium for captain grinding specifically is that a premium ship of a nation / line might not be representative of that line and play differently, thus require a different captain build to bring the best out. Massachusetts for example is a great ship, but she really benefits from a unique captain build that doesn't work well with the line ships. Alabama is a better ship to train captains for the USN BB line with.

Of course, this doesn't take things like enjoyment into account.

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6 minutes ago, Lert said:

One issue with using a premium for captain grinding specifically is that a premium ship of a nation / line might not be representative of that line and play differently, thus require a different captain build to bring the best out. Massachusetts for example is a great ship, but she really benefits from a unique captain build that doesn't work well with the line ships. Alabama is a better ship to train captains for the USN BB line with.

Of course, this doesn't take things like enjoyment into account.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.  However, my reason for *wanting* a premium was to have a change of pace from the lines I've been grinding -- these 20kt BBs can be infuriating!

 

 

Edited by Crownlol
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6 minutes ago, Crownlol said:

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.  However, my reason for *wanting* a premium was to have a change of pace from the lines I've been grinding -- these 20kt BBs can be infuriating!

 

 

And just keep in mind that the XP you grind on the premiums has to be converted to FXP with doubloons before you can use it.

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13 hours ago, Crownlol said:

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.  However, my reason for *wanting* a premium was to have a change of pace from the lines I've been grinding -- these 20kt BBs can be infuriating!

 

 

It gets a lot better once you are past the Colorado, but that ship will teach you lessons in positioning yourself effectively that are vital for your development. North Carolina does 27-ish knots with her engine module upgraded, and that doesn't take long to grind out once you have the basic ship.

If you want something fast, the Japanese Tier 5 Kongo does 30 knots fully upgraded at Tier 5, and the French battleships from Tier 6 onwards are also pretty nippy.

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14 hours ago, Crownlol said:

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.  However, my reason for *wanting* a premium was to have a change of pace from the lines I've been grinding -- these 20kt BBs can be infuriating!

 

 

If you want ships that are fast:

IJN BB line:
Kongou at Tier 5 is probably the fastest BB for her tier with the longest range.

Amagi at Tier 8 is a good pick.

German BB line:
From Tier 7 to Tier 10 they are fast.

French BB line:
From tier 6 to tier 10 they are fast.

American BB line:
Iowa, Georgia, Montana and Ohio are the speed demons of the Americans. The rest are all under the 28kt area.

~Hunter

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Considering the cost of many premium ships you can save a lot of real money just only doing the 250k silver reboost and just playing through the skill degradation. This idea of buying a premium ship to retrain is a trap and only useful to those who swap captains around silver ships a lot. Worst case you can pay 500 dubs many times before ever coming to the price of a premium ship. Plus think of it this way, all that time you spend on the premium ship is XP not going on your new ship. Let alone not having all skills active really only matters in competitive play and randoms aren't that.

  

there are lots of opportunities to get premium ships for free and that is the best route however if you don't care the cost buy ships you like

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Hi, YES, premium ships are really good as captain trainers / retainers (when you are low credits / doubloons and need to move a captain from a ship to the next one)

There is a pinned LWM post in General Discussion of all reviewed ships.

At the bottom of each review is an analysis of whether the ship is suitable for competitive, random, PVE or captain training.

I heartfully suggest reading those posts. They are excellent written and not biased.

That said, there are some ships better than others as a general purpose trainers.

Aigle for frnch DDs and cruisers, Graf Spee for German BBs and Cruisers, Gallant for British DDs and Cruisers, and so on.

I would suggest tier 5/6/7 ships as you can also use them in Scenarios.

GL & HF

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18 hours ago, Crownlol said:

To be clear, I'm not asking what I assume is a common newbie question ("hOw Do i rUsH tIeR 10!?"), rather asking about efficient commander and line grinding.  I'm happy playing at my T7/T8 level for the meantime while I work to unlock T10 the regular way.

However, I'm a bit of an altoholic.  I'm also terrible with Commander management (until recently I was buying the new 3pt commander with every new tier).  I'd like to farm a new line, but the idea of going back to T1/T2 to play up to T8, paying for my commander to follow me the whole way, seems inefficient.  If I *know* there's a new line I want to play, wouldn't it be best to buy a T7/T8 Premium (I'm itching to buy a bote anyway), buy a 10pt Commander, and farm out the Free XP equivalent of the tech tree grind?  That way my commander wouldn't have to keep starting over, and once I get the tech tree up to where the Premium is, I can just swap him over.  Though I guess I'd only have one Commander with full points for two boats...

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Crown

Hi, welcome to WoWS. 

I go into a bit more detail about what makes a good premium ship in this thread, see a discussion on what premium ships are good value for newer players can be found on my New Player Guide Premium Ships for New Players

But, I think the short answer to your question is 'generally yes' premium ships are good captain trainers, but importantly some premium ships are better captain trainers than others.  The general principle is that the closer a premium ship is to its tech tree equivalent, the better it is for captain training because a captain optimised for the tech tree ships will also be optimised for the premium ship.  German premium battleships Scharnhorst and Tirpitz are excellent captain trainers because their skills exactly match the German battleship tech tree - they are also pretty effective with German heavy cruiser captains.  The Massachusettes, however, is not a good captain trainer because it has strong secondary guns that are worth putting captain skills into, but the USN tech tree battleships have terrible (almost non-existant) secondaries. 

As I outlined in that thread, premium ships do more than just retrain captains though - they earn more credits, and they can be a fun experience to play.  

Still, you shouldnt be getting a new 3 point captain each time you get a new ship.  YOu should be moving them up as you go, so you get to about 10 captain skill points when your ship is T6 (T6 ships without Concealment Expert do a lot of dying).  

Hope that helps.  Good luck!

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I've got a lot of ships and a lot of Captains.  I'm part of the "World of Warships Collector's Club".

None are Tier-10 or 19-point-Captains.

So, you probably don't want to follow my behavior.

1.  Get a 10-point Captain before I purchase my "next ship".
2.  Get the "next ship" in question.  Assign selected Captain to that ship.
3.  Play for the fun of it.

Understand that only tech-tree ships can grind to unlock the next ship up the tech-tree line.  (Assuming one doesn't spend Free-XP to do the research.)
Moving Captains around is expensive (re-training costs or playing games with skills at 50% effectiveness until training completed) unless you are using premium ships or spending CXP/FXP/Doubloons.
Premium ships do not unlock tech-tree ships.  But they have other perks and are fun to play.

I like to get Captains from collections and events, too.  They can enjoy some R&R in "reserve" barracks status while I am waiting to welcome their future ship in to my port.
Captains that arrive with lower amounts of skill points (zero to 6 points), are usually assigned one of my lower-tier ships or come with a new ship that I bought to fill-in some gaps in a tech-tree line.

Currently, my most experienced Captain is commanding my Ryujo with 14 skill points.  It makes no sense to move him to another ship, because of the re-training involved.
My former Zuiho Captain is currently assigned to my Shokaku.

I figure one of my Commanders will eventually get to 19 skill points.  I'm not in a rush to get there.  I'd rather play to have fun. 
Occasionally, I'll spend some time grinding one or two up to 6 or 10 skill points to round-out their skill-set.
But, after 10 points, it takes a while to get to the next point, and so on, and so on.

Good luck.  Have fun.  :-)

 

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2 hours ago, fourteenfour said:

This idea of buying a premium ship to retrain is a trap and only useful to those who swap captains around silver ships a lot. Worst case you can pay 500 dubs many times before ever coming to the price of a premium ship. Plus think of it this way, all that time you spend on the premium ship is XP not going on your new ship. 

I agree. Although I have used them to retrain a captain or two, the biggest use of my high-tier premiums is EXP generation with 19-point captains.

But since my high-tier premiums consist of Musashi and Georgia, (plus Thunderer after today's coal) I didn't have to pay any money for them.

Edited by Skpstr

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1 hour ago, Skpstr said:

I agree. Although I have used them to retrain a captain or two, the biggest use of my high-tier premiums is EXP generation with 19-point captains.

But since my high-tier premiums consist of Musashi and Georgia, (plus Thunderer after today's coal) I didn't have to pay any money for them.

 

I don't mind spending a little money if it gives me the ability to switch roles more easily and helps train my captains.  It's time I'm really limited on these days :(

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4 hours ago, fourteenfour said:

Plus think of it this way, all that time you spend on the premium ship is XP not going on your new ship.

I'm going to present a counter-argument, which is not the same as saying that your argument doesn't have merit.

In these days of obscenely productive XP flags and camos, not to mention Warships premium time now offering 1.65X XP bonus vs. 1.5X credit bonus, it's not hard for XP accumulation to outstrip credit earnings by a very large margin. In addition, we now have a combination of snowflake events - which encourage you to keep the previous ship after you're done grinding it - and free port slots handed out in the daily chains, which enable you to find space for all the newer ships at zero cost. 

The combination of all these things has in my experience been a repeated credit crunch as I move up to the next, increasingly expensive, ship and have to fit out all its modules. Time spent playing premium ships might not contribute toward climbing the tech tree, but it does allow me to play the ship with the captain skills undiminished while I contribute toward the credit balance, and it lets me play 19 point captains or candidates for that status in multiple ships a day to reap their first-win XP rewards. It closes that credit gap, and it's a thing worth bearing in mind.

Encouraging newer players to get what they can for free in game before they open their wallets is, of course, always a good thing; and there's been a useful and welcome expansion in the number of mid-tier premium ships available for coal recently. 

When I play this game, I don't always want to have the pressure of advancing a grind. I want to be able to have fun, and sometimes only a particular premium ship will give me what I'm looking for. More credits are always welcome. More ECXP is always welcome. The next ship up is not always as important as having fun while advancing other agendas (credit replenishment, 19-pt captain training or ECXP farming for instant retraining).

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2 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

When I play this game, I don't always want to have the pressure of advancing a grind. I want to be able to have fun, and sometimes only a particular premium ship will give me what I'm looking for. More credits are always welcome. More ECXP is always welcome. The next ship up is not always as important as having fun while advancing other agendas (credit replenishment, 19-pt captain training or ECXP farming for instant retraining).

I agree!  I've been playing this game for relaxation and entertainment for 4+ years (since Beta).  Usually for a short time on weeknights after work, then as time permits on weekends.  My first tier 10 was this past month when I achieved the Moskova, for the russian cruiser split.  The rest of my lines (and I have all lines at least started and to T5 or so, minimum) vary from T6 to T9.  I have had no raging desire for the 'end game' tier 10 achievement.  I have played in randoms in higher tiers, with my T8 ships (some with my first premium ship, the Tirpitz way back when when I probably should not have been playing a T8 boat, but was divisioning with my brother and a clan member from WoT who got me into WoWs in the first place).  I have purchased many premiums (I have become a ship collector), but vary my play to have fun (mostly in co-op lately, but I still dabble in randoms on occasions).  My credit hoard is ok for now; but I still grind through various premiums to add credits and ECXP for later use.  I've generally been happy with my pace, and although I'd like to get to T10 in some more lines (IJN BB, USN BB, USN CA, to name a few), I have not seriously done any grinding except for rare occasions (i.e., the russian CL/CA split).

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it depends on the premium and how the rest of the line plays. I.E, Belfast is a good ship but a lousy trainer for RN CLs since Belfast has HE shells while RN CLs do not.

Same with the first two premium Italian cruisers, which both have HE shells instead of SAP.

Massachusetts and Georga fall into the same issue in that a captain built for them won't be as efficient on a standard US BB.

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17 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

It gets a lot better once you are past the Colorado, but that ship will teach you lessons in positioning yourself effectively that are vital for your development. North Carolina does 27-ish knots with her engine module upgraded, and that doesn't take long to grind out once you have the basic ship.

If you want something fast, the Japanese Tier 5 Kongo does 30 knots fully upgraded at Tier 5, and the French battleships from Tier 6 onwards are also pretty nippy.

And of course, Georgia opens with "Ahead, Warp Factor 9, Engage."

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On 4/29/2020 at 12:26 PM, Crownlol said:

To be clear, I'm not asking what I assume is a common newbie question ("hOw Do i rUsH tIeR 10!?"), rather asking about efficient commander and line grinding.  I'm happy playing at my T7/T8 level for the meantime while I work to unlock T10 the regular way.

However, I'm a bit of an altoholic.  I'm also terrible with Commander management (until recently I was buying the new 3pt commander with every new tier).  I'd like to farm a new line, but the idea of going back to T1/T2 to play up to T8, paying for my commander to follow me the whole way, seems inefficient.  If I *know* there's a new line I want to play, wouldn't it be best to buy a T7/T8 Premium (I'm itching to buy a bote anyway), buy a 10pt Commander, and farm out the Free XP equivalent of the tech tree grind?  That way my commander wouldn't have to keep starting over, and once I get the tech tree up to where the Premium is, I can just swap him over.  Though I guess I'd only have one Commander with full points for two boats...

 

Thanks for the help,

 

Crown

Free XPing more than the first few ships in a line will take forever, even with a high tier premium grinding the XP.

Getting a Premium ship to train/retrain a commander in isn't a bad idea, and it'll earn credits nicely.

Fastest way is probably dumping all the XP and credit flags you can find on the tech tree ships as you grind them out. 

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