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Hatred of CVs and why it is silly

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raw

 

This is going to go well.........

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The issue is that you in so many ships you cant do anything to stop a CV from killing you or in the first min of the game you loose a huge amount of your health pool. Defensive AA is a joke and dosnt help so you just sit around and wait for a planes attack  to end.  

 

 

Also the if one team has a good CV player and the other team has someone who stinks at CV play like myself then its an incredible detriment to the team. Which is why I have CV just sitting in my port. I actually liked the old CV play better.  Just wait for subs to come out then people will hate them more since a sub underwater can somehow out spot everyone else. 

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TLDR summery: I like very poor and not well thought out game design.

 

...good for you.

Thanks for sharing?

Edited by Rabbitt81
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I have a few battles under my belt at this point so I feel comfortable responding to why people get annoyed at carriers. I generally do not mind them but I specialize into all AA options so I can at least defend myself. However, after watching T4 carriers attacking T3 and T4 ships that have literally no air defense, I'm not sure there's anyone that can justify that. So there's one reason.

Another reason would be that carriers attack ships from positions on the map where they are not exposed to counter attack. CV captains will argue that it's no different then battleships firing at ranges that other ships can't fire back at, or ships firing from smoke or from behind islands, or destroyers launching torpedo attacks from stealth. My response to that would be all of the aforementioned scenarios put those ships into positions where a counter is possible. Ship launched spotter planes, radar, sonar, pushing into smoke or around islands etc. We can find enemy ships that are engaging us; we just have to use patience and tactics. This cannot be done with a carrier remotely piloting his planes from across the map. 

In regards to reporting players for simply playing a carrier I have two responses. First, that's unfortunate and it's not a practice I agree with or encourage. Second karma means nothing and gets you nothing so who cares if you get reported. Personally, I believe people should be able to play whatever ship they want without recrimination. But only one carrier should be allowed per team. More then one changes the whole dynamic of the match, again just my opinion. 

 

YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S JUST LIKE, MY OPINION, MAN - Opinion ...

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34 minutes ago, Sbels said:

Ok folks time to start a firestorm. The hatred of CVs is getting to the point of psychotic. Lets take a few points here. CVs do less damage than any other class overall. Lets looks at some general gripes about them.

1. Spotting CVs can keep ships spotted , yes they can for a bit till the squad of planes is shot down. DDs can also keep ships spotted and in general for longer and also able to do more damage while doing so (if they land torps).

leaving DDs aside ships AA range is lower than their concealment vs air range, this means a CV can effectivly keep them permanently spoted, Olso DDs cant keep track of half the enemy team movement without putting him at great risk. 

2. CVs have unlimited planes in fact they do not CVs (even the mighty Kaga) can and often do get deplaned rather quickly and are then forced to send up partial squads. The argument that CVs should not be able to replenish planes is also silly as CVs carried spare airframes lashed up to the hanger ceiling to be pulled in to service should a plane be lost but the crew recovered.

unless he is trhowing planes into a group of AA ships he wont loose many, the only way AA becomes effective is when multiple ships AA auras overlap or the CV player is cluless and keeps running into the flak clouds

3. CVs are immune to attack, I wish they were but CVs are generally hunted down with extreme prejudice and killed quickly when found.

"when found" is the keyword here, any half smart CV will look the map and move away from incoming danger not to mention they have good health and speed to escape, They can olso attack while running away forcing the attacking ship to turn and try to dodge to reduce the damage from incoming planes 

4. CVs can attack anywhere on the map yes they can but its takes a awhile for the planes to get their far longer then shells from ships (and I have seen more than a few maps that high tier BBs can nearly completely cover if set up correctly) and then they MIGHT be able to make two attack runs before the squad is shot down.

yes ships guns range is to much for the given map size but last time i check BBs or cruisers firing from long range didnt have homming shells that can go around cover, find a target and then hit it.

now lets look at damage 

Midway aside as its HE bombs do a decent lick of damage if they land well. AP bombs do maybe cruiser damage if they Cit a ship and are USELESS against DDs this is stupidly underpowered btw as the bursting charge of even battle ship AP was maybe a couple hundred pounds while AP bombs carried 500+ pounds of explosive. HE bombs Yes they do decent damage (aside from RN mini bombs at lower tiers which make up for it with somewhat higher fire chance), And yes they start fires. The trick is DON'T put the fire out until the bombers are gone or go after something else you don't know how many time I have set 1 fire on a BB he puts it out and in the say 30 seconds it takes for me to turn around and set up another run his dam con has run it course and look new fire. 

CV torps do little damage and have very low flood chance and as they can only launch generally 2-4 (again Midway aside) and they are slow and short ranged. Yes RN CVs can drop them in your back pocket but they are the weakest torps of all the CVs also.

Rocket planes...... ahhh rocket planes ok these are annoying yes they do stupid amounts of damage to DDs save IJN rockets which are rather weak and launched in far fewer numbers than USN OR RN. A maneuvering DD can avoid them though if they watch where the rocket squad is trying to set up the run by turning into the squad and not turning broad to the squad which most DD drivers know to do.

YES CVs are my favorite class to play followed oddly by DDs and when I am in a DD ya know what I do if there is a CV on the enemy team I make it my mission to go and show him what REAL torps can do.

I am saying all this cause the people who want to report a CV for simply being a CV is stupid it would be like ok lets report all the DDs on the enemy team cause they will keep my big fat BB spotted forever which DDs do regularly until they have fed the BB enough Torps to send her to the bottom.

CVs are not over powered they can be annoying yes but so can every other class 

1. DDs stealth torping and keeping people spotted.

2. Cruisers (especially USN and Smolensk) parking behind an island and spamming HE at everything that comes into range.

3. BBs hand of god smackdown if they land more than 2 cits.

CVs are annoying yes I will agree but no more annoying than any other class in the game and yes a well played CV can help his/her team to victory the same can be said for all other ship classes.

In closing please stop hating on CV players and reporting on sight they are not breaking any rules by playing their CV now if they play badly or act like a jerk in chat or whatever then report away but reporting simply because they are a CV is as I said at the top slightly psychotic.

 

 

 

 

answer in red, One would think they learn from the mistakes of WOT but then they go out and create CV wich is an arty with homming shells that can find its own targets :Smile_facepalm: 

Edited by pepe_trueno
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CV players who hide behind rocks all game and then complain that they aren't strong enough and why does everyone hate me, need to go get a self esteem book and a stuart smally affirmation video. 

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Trying to lecture people on how they should feel. Bold.

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46 minutes ago, pepe_trueno said:

answer in red, One would think they learn from the mistakes of WOT but then they go out and create CV wich is an arty with homming shells that can find its own targets :Smile_facepalm: 

You forgot that CVs are fire and flood proof as well.

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1 hour ago, Lonewolfpj said:

I actually liked the old CV play

Myself included. Now, imo, the CV rework has made all play worse.

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14 minutes ago, Gunga_Dinner said:

You forgot that CVs are fire and flood proof as well.

Hey....that's not true.  Fires burn for a full 5 seconds.  

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CVs have safety nets built in - fly into an AA ball, lose your squadron?  Big deal, launch another squadron while the one you lost gets rebuilt.  What safety nets do DDs get when caught by radar and 2-3 cruisers shooting?  What safety net do cruisers get when caught broadside by BBs?  What safety net do BBs get when caught in a torp trap or HE spam?  And CVs most powerful asset - spotting - when done well will explicitly keep planes from getting shot down.  CV might not do a lot of damage, but their presence is felt.  Bring back de-planing.

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1 hour ago, Sbels said:

Ok folks time to start a firestorm. The hatred of CVs is getting to the point of psychotic. Lets take a few points here. CVs do less damage than any other class overall. Lets looks at some general gripes about them.

1. Spotting CVs can keep ships spotted , yes they can for a bit till the squad of planes is shot down. DDs can also keep ships spotted and in general for longer and also able to do more damage while doing so (if they land torps).

2. CVs have unlimited planes in fact they do not CVs (even the mighty Kaga) can and often do get deplaned rather quickly and are then forced to send up partial squads. The argument that CVs should not be able to replenish planes is also silly as CVs carried spare airframes lashed up to the hanger ceiling to be pulled in to service should a plane be lost but the crew recovered.

3. CVs are immune to attack, I wish they were but CVs are generally hunted down with extreme prejudice and killed quickly when found.

4. CVs can attack anywhere on the map yes they can but its takes a awhile for the planes to get their far longer then shells from ships (and I have seen more than a few maps that high tier BBs can nearly completely cover if set up correctly) and then they MIGHT be able to make two attack runs before the squad is shot down.

now lets look at damage 

Midway aside as its HE bombs do a decent lick of damage if they land well. AP bombs do maybe cruiser damage if they Cit a ship and are USELESS against DDs this is stupidly underpowered btw as the bursting charge of even battle ship AP was maybe a couple hundred pounds while AP bombs carried 500+ pounds of explosive. HE bombs Yes they do decent damage (aside from RN mini bombs at lower tiers which make up for it with somewhat higher fire chance), And yes they start fires. The trick is DON'T put the fire out until the bombers are gone or go after something else you don't know how many time I have set 1 fire on a BB he puts it out and in the say 30 seconds it takes for me to turn around and set up another run his dam con has run it course and look new fire. 

CV torps do little damage and have very low flood chance and as they can only launch generally 2-4 (again Midway aside) and they are slow and short ranged. Yes RN CVs can drop them in your back pocket but they are the weakest torps of all the CVs also.

Rocket planes...... ahhh rocket planes ok these are annoying yes they do stupid amounts of damage to DDs save IJN rockets which are rather weak and launched in far fewer numbers than USN OR RN. A maneuvering DD can avoid them though if they watch where the rocket squad is trying to set up the run by turning into the squad and not turning broad to the squad which most DD drivers know to do.

YES CVs are my favorite class to play followed oddly by DDs and when I am in a DD ya know what I do if there is a CV on the enemy team I make it my mission to go and show him what REAL torps can do.

I am saying all this cause the people who want to report a CV for simply being a CV is stupid it would be like ok lets report all the DDs on the enemy team cause they will keep my big fat BB spotted forever which DDs do regularly until they have fed the BB enough Torps to send her to the bottom.

CVs are not over powered they can be annoying yes but so can every other class 

1. DDs stealth torping and keeping people spotted.

2. Cruisers (especially USN and Smolensk) parking behind an island and spamming HE at everything that comes into range.

3. BBs hand of god smackdown if they land more than 2 cits.

CVs are annoying yes I will agree but no more annoying than any other class in the game and yes a well played CV can help his/her team to victory the same can be said for all other ship classes.

In closing please stop hating on CV players and reporting on sight they are not breaking any rules by playing their CV now if they play badly or act like a jerk in chat or whatever then report away but reporting simply because they are a CV is as I said at the top slightly psychotic.

 

 

 

 

Your stated purpose is to start a "firestorm". You think trolling will cause players to accept CV's?

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To respond to the OP - I did not hate CVs at all when they were RTS style. I found them challenging to play - there was a lot to do, especially with higher tier & more plane squadrons to deal with, etc.

Now I hate CVs all thanks to the idiotic & farcial CV rework. &, OP, I am not silly, nor is anyone else, in hating that.

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2 hours ago, Sbels said:

Ok folks time to start a firestorm. The hatred of CVs is getting to the point of psychotic. Lets take a few points here. CVs do less damage than any other class overall. Lets looks at some general gripes about them.

1. Spotting CVs can keep ships spotted , yes they can for a bit till the squad of planes is shot down. DDs can also keep ships spotted and in general for longer and also able to do more damage while doing so (if they land torps).

2. CVs have unlimited planes in fact they do not CVs (even the mighty Kaga) can and often do get deplaned rather quickly and are then forced to send up partial squads. The argument that CVs should not be able to replenish planes is also silly as CVs carried spare airframes lashed up to the hanger ceiling to be pulled in to service should a plane be lost but the crew recovered.

3. CVs are immune to attack, I wish they were but CVs are generally hunted down with extreme prejudice and killed quickly when found.

4. CVs can attack anywhere on the map yes they can but its takes a awhile for the planes to get their far longer then shells from ships (and I have seen more than a few maps that high tier BBs can nearly completely cover if set up correctly) and then they MIGHT be able to make two attack runs before the squad is shot down.

1. That spotting is unexpected and random. and does not care about terrain. I can expect where a dd is going to be and gauge where it is by when I get spotted and mitigate it because of that. I can make myself go dark usually with distance or terrain or stop shooting etc. I can then perform maneuvers while dark. The CV can send squad after squad spotting you at inopportune times. So while trying to play smart and react to the minimap, the CV can spot you at will. In a dd that spotting is extreme. I can disengage from fights and go dark, but with the CV most dd's don't have the aa power to get rid of the spotting, so you either use a smoke to stop yourself being spotted from a CV and nothing more or you run the gauntlet of enemy fire from being perma spotted on top of the damage the plane will do.

2. A smart player can usually mitigate his losses quite well.

3. Clans are literally using their well angled armored deck CV's in clan battles to tank and provide AA cover to their team.

4. How quickly can another ship position their complete offensive power to any part of the map compared to a CV?

 

CV's are hated because of the way they make people play. People demand spotting and capping by DD's, yet with a CV , the DD is forced to stay quite close to friendly ships to hopefully discourage the CV from attacking if the CV wants to focus DD's. Most CV players are too stupid to focus DD's, so this is a huge skill imbalance with CV's. If your team has a bad CV, you will be forced away from the caps, because the DD either dies or won't go away from the lemming train/ball of AA while the enemy team is able to push into caps with DD's undetected. THis compounds the problem as unspotted dd's cause battleships and cruisers to turn tail and run.

The smart plays of flanking and kiting with small number of ships is severely discouraged when playing against a goo CV player. The only safe play against a good CV player is a lemming train. If you have a bad CV player that doesn't do the same against the kiting and flanking ship then your team gets easily flanked and obliterated.

WG marketed this as a "thinking man's game" yet CV's take the ability of players to play smartly and tactically away because of the aforementioned problems. No one is going to complain about their damage output, it is their ability to focus stray ships (that may be playing very well tactically and kiting an enemy team expertly) and their ability to spot targets at will that players are complaining about.

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1.) CVs are the highest performing type in the game. Performing well above the balance range. This means the data clearly shows CVs need a LARGE nerf.
2.) CVs are a low/no risk in a game WITHOUT respawns. That is ultimately game breaking.
3.) if OWSF was so broken that WG had to implement smoke changes and the bloom system, then why are CVs allowed to be OWSF to the maximum?

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2 hours ago, Sbels said:

Ok folks time to start a firestorm. The hatred of CVs is getting to the point of psychotic. Lets take a few points here. CVs do less damage than any other class overall. Lets looks at some general gripes about them.

1. Spotting CVs can keep ships spotted , yes they can for a bit till the squad of planes is shot down. DDs can also keep ships spotted and in general for longer and also able to do more damage while doing so (if they land torps).

2. CVs have unlimited planes in fact they do not CVs (even the mighty Kaga) can and often do get deplaned rather quickly and are then forced to send up partial squads. The argument that CVs should not be able to replenish planes is also silly as CVs carried spare airframes lashed up to the hanger ceiling to be pulled in to service should a plane be lost but the crew recovered.

3. CVs are immune to attack, I wish they were but CVs are generally hunted down with extreme prejudice and killed quickly when found.

4. CVs can attack anywhere on the map yes they can but its takes a awhile for the planes to get their far longer then shells from ships (and I have seen more than a few maps that high tier BBs can nearly completely cover if set up correctly) and then they MIGHT be able to make two attack runs before the squad is shot down.

now lets look at damage 

Midway aside as its HE bombs do a decent lick of damage if they land well. AP bombs do maybe cruiser damage if they Cit a ship and are USELESS against DDs this is stupidly underpowered btw as the bursting charge of even battle ship AP was maybe a couple hundred pounds while AP bombs carried 500+ pounds of explosive. HE bombs Yes they do decent damage (aside from RN mini bombs at lower tiers which make up for it with somewhat higher fire chance), And yes they start fires. The trick is DON'T put the fire out until the bombers are gone or go after something else you don't know how many time I have set 1 fire on a BB he puts it out and in the say 30 seconds it takes for me to turn around and set up another run his dam con has run it course and look new fire. 

CV torps do little damage and have very low flood chance and as they can only launch generally 2-4 (again Midway aside) and they are slow and short ranged. Yes RN CVs can drop them in your back pocket but they are the weakest torps of all the CVs also.

Rocket planes...... ahhh rocket planes ok these are annoying yes they do stupid amounts of damage to DDs save IJN rockets which are rather weak and launched in far fewer numbers than USN OR RN. A maneuvering DD can avoid them though if they watch where the rocket squad is trying to set up the run by turning into the squad and not turning broad to the squad which most DD drivers know to do.

YES CVs are my favorite class to play followed oddly by DDs and when I am in a DD ya know what I do if there is a CV on the enemy team I make it my mission to go and show him what REAL torps can do.

I am saying all this cause the people who want to report a CV for simply being a CV is stupid it would be like ok lets report all the DDs on the enemy team cause they will keep my big fat BB spotted forever which DDs do regularly until they have fed the BB enough Torps to send her to the bottom.

CVs are not over powered they can be annoying yes but so can every other class 

1. DDs stealth torping and keeping people spotted.

2. Cruisers (especially USN and Smolensk) parking behind an island and spamming HE at everything that comes into range.

3. BBs hand of god smackdown if they land more than 2 cits.

CVs are annoying yes I will agree but no more annoying than any other class in the game and yes a well played CV can help his/her team to victory the same can be said for all other ship classes.

In closing please stop hating on CV players and reporting on sight they are not breaking any rules by playing their CV now if they play badly or act like a jerk in chat or whatever then report away but reporting simply because they are a CV is as I said at the top slightly psychotic.

 

 

 

 

 

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Lol it goes both ways for me... if im in a ship I feel they are to strong and not like them, and if im in my carrier (furious) I feel my planes get shot down to quick... hahaha   cant win on this one    :Smile_coin:         I been playing my carrier more as a spotter for my team since i cant hit much of anything anyway...  if I do take a shot at a ship I usually take one shot and move on I dont like to pick on one ship unless its heading twards my carrier then I normally miss it anyway and get sunk... its all good

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Carriers are definately in a much better place since the initial rework. I gotta admit, immediately following the rework my CVs were *super strong* 

But with the changes over time, and all the new ship lines with good AA, I think it's mellowed out. 

 

The main thing that bugs me is the way people treat CV players. Feels like every match people are giving CV players grief, for no reason other than they are driving a CV. It is immature and shallow. I don't care how much you hate a game mechanic or class, our fellow players deserve to be treated better, especially during this pandemic. 

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Just now, Sir_Orrin said:

Carriers are definately in a much better place since the initial rework. I gotta admit, immediately following the rework my CVs were *super strong* 

But with the changes over time, and all the new ship lines with good AA, I think it's mellowed out. 

 

The main thing that bugs me is the way people treat CV players. Feels like every match people are giving CV players grief, for no reason other than they are driving a CV. It is immature and shallow. I don't care how much you hate a game mechanic or class, our fellow players deserve to be treated better, especially during this pandemic. 

This is because CVs *as a class* are broken. They're a griefing class, nothing less. Even a bad CV player will provide tons of spotting for his team due to the nearly unlimited planes. If you play a griefing class, expect to get griefed.

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3 minutes ago, Sir_Orrin said:

. I don't care how much you hate a game mechanic or class, our fellow players deserve to be treated better, especially during this pandemic. 

Why especially during this pandemic?

I agree that people should be civil to each other.  While I don't enjoy having carriers in the game, I don't hate them.  They are a mostly tolerable annoyance.  When they start showing up every battle, I stop playing until their numbers drop again.

But what does the pandemic have to do with it, especially?

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