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Terminal_Frost1

Ship limits in clan battles

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Most matches seem to follow the same meta:

1 BB or CV

4-5 Heavy cruisers

1-2 DDs

I'm of the belief that the game should limit how many heavy cruisers are in a match to two.

Most matches simply become Russian or Puerto Rico matches with very little diversity.

While I see different BBs and DDs in most matches, It always seems like its the same cruisers that constantly make the appearances day in and day out which in my opinion isn't fun but instead annoying and boring.

If you disagree let me know.

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Right now all my team is seeing is haku, ven's, a few stalin's and occasionally a halland. Would be nice to be able to do different strategies but cv's just suck all the strategy out of the game. It simply comes down to who trades better. 

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Hakuryu, Venezia, Stalingrad, to a lesser extent Halland, Goliath. The meta this season is extremely stale only two weeks in. Imo still beats playing against Kleber comps. 

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The only limit used to be how many BB's and I think that CV's have the same limit so if you want to run a seven cruiser or DD set up go for it. The seven DD one in particular is great as an end of night way to blow off steam.

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1 Kremlin, 1 Des Moines, 2 Moskva, 3 Stalingrad. Ugh! LOL. Needless to say that was not a fun match to be a DD against that line up.

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and what do those heavy cruisers all have in common (PR, DM, Stalin, Moskva).....radar.

We are rarely seeing DDs because, well TY CVs, and if there isn't a CV, its a cruiser with radar, or 2, or 3, or 4, or 5.

Would be nice if there was a cost system in place or something.  You have X points to spend, and can only bring ships that cost less than that.  The more a ship is used, the higher the cost is each night.  For example, say you have 2000 points and Stalin on day 1 costs 250.  After a ton of Stalins get through day one, on day two, Stalin costs 500....etc.  Each ship is assigned a cost and you have to determine how to divy up that cost.

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1 hour ago, Terminal_Frost1 said:

Most matches seem to follow the same meta:

1 BB or CV

4-5 Heavy cruisers

1-2 DDs

I'm of the belief that the game should limit how many heavy cruisers are in a match to two.

Most matches simply become Russian or Puerto Rico matches with very little diversity.

While I see different BBs and DDs in most matches, It always seems like its the same cruisers that constantly make the appearances day in and day out which in my opinion isn't fun but instead annoying and boring.

If you disagree let me know.

1. Stalingrads and Puerto Ricos are not "heavy cruisers".  They're supercruisers or large cruisers or battle cruisers (all essentially the same thing).  The Des Moines, Goliath, and Henri IV are Heavy Cruisers.

2. I agree that there's a lack of diversity, but this isn't the way to get it.  A far better way to generate diversity would be to limit how often a player can play a given ship in a limited amount of time.  For example, if you play a Stalingrad at 8pm, perhaps you shouldn't be able to play it again until at least 8:30pm (or even 9pm, if your Stalin is sunk).  This forces your Stalin out of the window for the next clan battle, and forces you into another ship.

Mind you, if your clan has enough of the preferred ships, your team might be able to constantly juggle who plays what ship in such a way that your clan is able to get the team comps it wants.  Also note, I'm aware that some players may not have deep ports.  But the solution to that is to use rental ships as the one group of ships that can be used repetitively.  (I'd just suggest that WG not use any Russian ships in the rental rotation, since they tend to be the cause of this lack of variety.) 

3. A point that you don't mention, but others have noted, is that the Haku seems to be far and away the most popular of the tier 10 CVs for CBs.  I think that this is because they have the combination of good, fast (for TB launched torps) torpedoes and devastating AP bombs.  It's sad in a way that the Midway, a popular CV in randoms, doesn't seem to be nearly as popular in CBs because it lacks the strong alpha strike in its dive bombs and its torps are a good deal slower.  

 

4. Here's a point of frustration for me.  WG seems to be very intent on making maps that are hyper balanced, probably with competitive play in mind.  But at the same time, it doesn't seem like WG cares that their tech tree ships aren't all close to equally capable (or balanced?) with clan battles in mind.  There are a small number of tech tree ships that stand head and shoulders above other TT ships when it comes to their viability for competitive CBs play, while the other TT ships are only seen used by less competitive clans.  I think that this greatly affects the variety of ships seen in CBs.

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CVs in CWs suck, plain and simple.  CWs with CVs is simple the same issues that are in randoms.

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From our viewpoint, there does seem to be an overpowering ship in the meta, and it's not a CV. Stalingrad forces you to either play it, or play a ship that can substitute for it depending on whether you need it for HP or spotting utility. It's funny that both BB and CV teams can work, but only with the right support, which Stalingrad can cover both roles.

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We aren’t seeing many dds. When we do they are rarely a factor. 
 

As for the presence of so many SC/BC well Stali and PR have larger health pools that CAs and simply having significant hp advantage makes a huge difference. Moscva has high hp and that bow armor. We typically bring a smoli or dm to have some daka daka as an area denial ship but other than that it’s stalis, pr, or Moscva. 

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1 hour ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

 funny that both BB and CV teams can work

When a bb can keep vision and strike anywhere on the map then they can be interchangeable. Until then a cv is required to be competitive for teams of equal skill. 

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2 hours ago, eagle_lance said:

Right now all my team is seeing is haku, ven's, a few stalin's and occasionally a halland. Would be nice to be able to do different strategies but cv's just suck all the strategy out of the game. It simply comes down to who trades better. 

The carrier is dictating the team line-ups now.

The above line-ups are this season meta.

It seems bringing a dd is putting that team at a disadvantage. 

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20 minutes ago, eagle_lance said:

When a bb can keep vision and strike anywhere on the map then they can be interchangeable. Until then a cv is required to be competitive for teams of equal skill. 

BB can take a lot more hits than CV, especially since CV plays death by a thousand cuts, and has a much larger attack turn around time. If a CV doesn't have at least two really tanky cruisers on the team (ie Stalingrad),  it will fall behind in damage. CV teams just can't take the hits vs a BB team if they don't have something resembling super cruisers to function as a tank substitute.

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24 minutes ago, Shannon_Lindsey said:

BB can take a lot more hits than CV, especially since CV plays death by a thousand cuts, and has a much larger attack turn around time. If a CV doesn't have at least two really tanky cruisers on the team (ie Stalingrad),  it will fall behind in damage. CV teams just can't take the hits vs a BB team if they don't have something resembling super cruisers to function as a tank substitute.

Maybe gale is more of a toss up, but in typhoon everyone brings a haku and at least 2-3 venezia

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The view from a clan that is just now able to participate in Clan Battles:
 

On 4/27/2020 at 5:25 PM, Crucis said:

2. I agree that there's a lack of diversity, but this isn't the way to get it.  A far better way to generate diversity would be to limit how often a player can play a given ship in a limited amount of time.  For example, if you play a Stalingrad at 8pm, perhaps you shouldn't be able to play it again until at least 8:30pm (or even 9pm, if your Stalin is sunk).  This forces your Stalin out of the window for the next clan battle, and forces you into another ship.

This would limit clans with low membership and with low T10 ships to choose from.  If you only have 1 (not counting any rentals) you are out for the next run.  And if your clan doesn't have a guy sitting on the bench to come in, your whole clan suffers. 
You may as well force a clan to have at least one of each class. 

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5 hours ago, OnePrarieOutpost said:

The view from a clan that is just now able to participate in Clan Battles:
 

This would limit clans with low membership and with low T10 ships to choose from.  If you only have 1 (not counting any rentals) you are out for the next run.  And if your clan doesn't have a guy sitting on the bench to come in, your whole clan suffers. 
You may as well force a clan to have at least one of each class. 

You missed the part where I suggested that rentals be allowed to be used repeatedly as backup.

But in the end, people can't complain about a lack of variety in clan battles and then gripe when someone offers up a rational solution to the perceived problem.  The reality is that if one wants more variety in the ships played in CBs, it would have to be enforced by rules such as what I've suggested.

Also, when you say "You may as well force a clan to have at least one of each class," I don't have a clue what you're talking about because of the utter laziness of people on this forum with regard to the use of the word "class".  Do you use "class" to mean ship type?  Or do you use the word properly to mean the actual class of ship, such as Montana class or Goliath class, etc.?  

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cv in clan is a broken meta. makes all dd useless except halland and it for only aa. allows for no surprise. add a few venizia and its really broke.  allow 1 bb. and then 1 ship model. 1 venizia, 1 stalin, 1 des moine. make it more diverse and it would limit op ships like the stalin. if a clan wants to bring 6 cruisers they would all have to be different.  as for cv, a good cv driver can still control the game to much,. 7x7 makes it to easy on the cv to spot and control.

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Doesn't this happen every season though? Don't get me wrong, I'm not an advocate for CVs in CBs, but once an effective meta is established, it's quickly adopted from pretty much STORM and up and the play becomes stale anyway.

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