Jump to content
You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section.
Hapa_Fodder

Results of Submarines event on Public test

67 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

8,307
[WG]
Administrator, Developers, Community Department, WG Staff, In AlfaTesters
4,689 posts
15,325 battles

Aloha,

A thank you from our developers for all your feedback and information from that feedback:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/15

Please leave your feedback below.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

  • Cool 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,167
[DRFTR]
Beta Testers
3,983 posts
13 minutes ago, ArmoredFrostX said:

I could not even enter into a single Submarine Battle.

why not? 

I was able to every time i tried, sometimes queue was 3-4 mins

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
877 posts
6,656 battles
16 minutes ago, SKurj said:

why not? 

I was able to every time i tried, sometimes queue was 3-4 mins

I was a lot luckier.  Never had to wait more than 60-90 sec for a Submarine Battle.  If you play late at night, you have a higher probability of getting in quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,272
[FRR]
Members
911 posts
21 minutes ago, SKurj said:

why not? 

I was able to every time i tried, sometimes queue was 3-4 mins

I tried 6 times on different days. The queue was really long, more than 5 minutes, so I decided my time would be better spent doing something better. Looking forward to playing it on the live server.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
128
[RST]
Members
568 posts
12,071 battles

I didn't even try sub last weekend.  Previous round of PT I waited about 5 minutes to get in.  Was having a lot more fun playing DD or cruiser and hunting the lil buggers.  Played a lot of games like that and very little wait time.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
310
[WOLFA]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,238 posts

it's official subs in 9.4 live as a special gamemode, some adjusting but think they can be fun change-up from ships

taking bets on what prem sub gets released first ;p

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,350
[WMD]
Members
1,908 posts
10,780 battles

I'm looking forward to sub battles as a game mode on the live server. We will get to see just how it all works in a live environment without ruining random battles like the CV rework did for many months. 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
63 posts
4 hours ago, groomsiebelle said:

I didn't even try sub last weekend.  Previous round of PT I waited about 5 minutes to get in.  Was having a lot more fun playing DD or cruiser and hunting the lil buggers.  Played a lot of games like that and very little wait time.

Agreed! I had a blast in my DD's hunting the little worms down and dropping charges on them. :cap_like:

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
877 posts
6,656 battles

I think WG'll set up subs in a similar manner to CVs - even tiers only.  My guesses:

Tier 4:

  • US - R or S class
  • Russian - Bars class
  • German - UB III class

Tier 8

  • US - Gato class
  • Soviet - K class
  • German - Type IX

Tier 10

  • US - Tench class
  • Soviet - Foxtrot class
  • German - Type XXI
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,368
[WPORT]
Members
9,038 posts
13,819 battles
10 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Aloha,

A thank you from our developers for all your feedback and information from that feedback:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/15

Please leave your feedback below.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

I participated.  Thanks for announcing/inviting us in the first place, and thanks for posting the "results" for us to view.

Wolfswetpaws/WolfsWetPawsPubTest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,503
[PVE]
Members
8,210 posts
24,273 battles
18 hours ago, Hapa_Fodder said:

Aloha,

A thank you from our developers for all your feedback and information from that feedback:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/15

Please leave your feedback below.

Mahalo,

-Hapa

By diversify "naval battles" do you mean that as a general statement or are you specifically referring to the weekly clan competition as including sub play in the separate mode as viable for earning stars (assuming the general statement but just clarifying)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[DRAH]
Members
421 posts
10,499 battles

Overall I was impressed by the feedback. It is clear that the 8.4 sub mode is temporary and not the end of the testing phase. I expect at least 1 more PTS or isolated sub mode based on the laundry list of things they want to work on. I also expect further flaws in their ASW model to be highlighted by the sub mode on live servers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
165
[DRAH]
Members
421 posts
10,499 battles
21 minutes ago, 1598_2016 said:

When ARE subs coming to the main version of the game (Meaning not legends or blitz or ltms)?

 

When Wargaming thinks they are ready, it is clear from the tone of the blog that it is still some way off so I assume several months at this stage.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,548
[ALL41]
Beta Testers
2,425 posts
10,682 battles
Quote

One of the most popular questions you asked after trying to play on submarines in the Public Test - "what means of protection from submarines will heavy cruisers and battleships have?" For now, we have some ideas of counterplay against submarines for these ships.

Look, there is no counterplay. None is needed. Right now destroyers are able to fire torps under stealth and those torps travel the whole way to BBs undetected. A sub firing its torps at 3km and those torps be detected at 1.5km is no different than a DD firing torps at 15km and not having them detected until 1.5km. Do not make up 'counterplay' that is NOT needed and its already a PROVEN fact they are not needed. You will just add another factor you will fail at trying to balance for no reason or benefit. 

 

Quote

Counteracting a submarine's sonar pings is currently possible by actively maneuvering and directing bow or stern towards the submarine. However, in spite of the efficiency of these countermeasures, we consider them insufficient and we are planning to make the counterplay simpler by letting a surface ship know if a submarine has chosen her as a target.

 

Again, no, this is not the solution. You have just removed the submarine's core feature: its stealth. Unlike a DD a sub has to get very close to its target and its absolutely helpless to destroyer and cruisers depth charging it. It cannot escape and since most cruisers have sonar consumable and several DDs have too, subs have it very difficult as it is. The Public Test vs mostly bots did NOT provide a functional test bed of how a GROUP of players would deal with subs. 

 

Quote

Sonar pings are a completely new mechanic in our game, and its main feature is the ability to emit pings underwater at targets above and below the submarine. On one hand, it gives more brings a new type of interaction with other ships to the table, on the other hand - emitting itself is not always clear: what is the distance to the target, what speed it has, what lead to take... We have plans to make these mechanics more comfortable in the future.

 

SONAR PINGS and HOMING TORPS are the REASON why you have the two above issues and more. Sonar pings and homing torps NEED TO BE REMOVED. This the one CONSTANT feedback you have been receiving in the forums since the first round of tests. Its dumb, its gamey and it only pushes players to game the game rather than play the sub. 

If subs dont have ping-homing torpedoes then they become no more dangerous than a DD firing torpedoes. It relies on player skill at firing torps not on a gimmick mechanic that emulates 1960's sub technology. 

If subs dont have homing torps their best chance to get hits is to get CLOSE to a target. Much closer than a destroyer can possibly get and thus MUCH more dangerous and risky it is. 

 

I posted this in another feedback thread and I'll post it here now. Pings/Sonar should be a SCOUTING tool for subs to support the team. It would make them the kings of recon and get bulk of xp and credits via spotting not damage/kills. Torpedo play should be representative of WW2 sub combat not late cold war with magical fairy dust. 

 

Please implement a more balanced, fun and realistic version of sonar and torpedo attacks. Please give submarines a functional role for the team. 

 

Let's start with the sonar/ping mechanics:

Sonar is passive 'listening' or active 'pinging'.

- Passive listening provides info on range, vector, estimated speed and ship type all from listening to the engine noise of ships over a certain period of time. The farther away that ship is the less accurate the info is.  

- Active pinging has the sub emitting a powerful sonar pulse that travels to the target and back, providing accurate and instant information on things that reflected the sonar pulse. Doing this however, reveals the presence and location of the sub to anyone listening.

 

In WoWs, this can be implemented by merely having the subs always be acquiring passive sonar data. IRL sound of ships can be detected by low-profile subs much farther than the subs can visually spot a ship. 

Therefore, subs in WoWs should have underwater detection range as being the longest detection range stat...while their surface VISUAL detection range should be quite short. This CAN BE DONE using existing game mechanics.

 

How? Simple! If we use Cachalot as an example of how to do it:

1- Set the underwater detection range to be 21km but under 'cyclone' visual range reduction set to ZERO permanently. 

2- Set Surface detection range to be 21km BUT the ship would be under 'cyclone' visual range reduction permanently. 

3- When underwater, subs will only update passive sonar detection location of targets on minimap once every 10 seconds. This emulates the sonarman having to listen for a time to triangulate range,speed and bearing. 

4- Subs do not get spotting credit unless they visually spot the target (inside 8km while on surface) or they active target-ping a red ship (see more on this below). 

...and just like that, you have a sub that can detect targets out to 21km when underwater but only shows them to player as minimap contacts. When on surface same sub will share only minimap data to team and will only spot the target visually if inside 8kms. 

 

Now that we have passive detection set, we move to active detection: Ping. Sonar Ping should be implemented as the sub's primary SCOUTING and FLEET ASSIST toolset. It should provide enemy ship location at long range as well as give friendly ships buffs to gun stats when shooting at a target ship. 

1- Subs must point the nose of their ship towards target. The ping will use the same aim-cone width that torps use.  

2- Pings can be emitted on wide cone (the full torpedo cone) or narrow cone (the current little white line used to aim torpedoes). Wide cone ping travels out slowly (80kn?) while narrow cone travels very fast (150kn?). 

3- The ping can travel out to 21km (max spotting range) but is limited to LOS. Aka it cant go through mountains. 

4- Of course, active pings would be available on a medium duration timer to re-use... like, 30 seconds to re-use unlimited uses timer. 

5- A sub emitting an active ping will reveal its location to ALL ships within LOS and 360 degrees, out to max range (21km) on minimap. Remember that the enemy only gets to spot your sub WHEN the ping touches them... this means a sub can ping and relocate behind cover and 30 seconds later when the ping touches a ship at 20km it will only show your minimap info where you emitted the ping from not where your sub is right now. Basically merging the current 'minimap blip' with the minimap's option setting of showing previously detected ship last known locations. 

6- Wide Ping is the 'scouting' ping. It will emit the full-width of cone ping out to those 21kms and any ship it touches will have its location updated on the minimap. Sub will only share minimap data with team if sub is on surface. 

7- Narrow Ping is the 'targeting' ping. It will make the target ship be visible as if visually spotted for 15 seconds. Targeting ping is basically a targeted radar as it ignores smokescreens. Sub only shares this visual spotting data with team if sub is on the surface. For those 15 seconds, sub will receive spotting and credit for any damage dealt to that ship for those 15 seconds. Enemy ships tagged with targeting ping receive a debuff equivalent to the Type5 camo bonuses (aka, it would be +3% detectability by sea and +4% to incoming shell accuracy). 

8- Hostile Subs detected by pings will not be shared as visual spotting data unless said sub was on the surface. Otherwise it will be shown on minimap only. 

...with this system, a sub is now the best scout a fleet can have. It can stealthily approach the enemy fleet while on surface and spot for team plus debuff targets of camo bonuses or it can provide long range detection and minimap info for team even if sub has to reveal itself to. 

 

Sub Detection mechanics:

- Subs should have a simple 'base' detection range stat which is modified by the sound the sub emits and the depth it is at. 

- For example, Cachalot base underwater detection range should be 0.5km. The guaranteed detection range of 2km should not apply to subs. 

- Noise Modifiers:

-- If at full engine setting then +3km detect

-- If at 3/4s then +2km detect.

-- If at 1/2 OR reverse then +1km detect. 

-- If at 1/4th then +0.5km detect. 

-- If at 0 speed then -0.5km detect. 

 

- Depth Modifiers:

-- If at surface, +4km detect to other surface ships. 

--If at 'detection depth' (aka periscope) of 6 to 12m then +2km detect. 

-- If at 'operational depth' of 12 to 30m then +1km detect. 

--If at 'deep' depth of 30 to 50m then -0.5km detect. 

- If at 'crush' depth (50 to 70m) then -2km detect and reduces the range from which active hydroacoustic consumables from other ships will detect this sub by 75%. It will still pick it up but only if directly above it. Since depth charge effectiveness depends on the surface ship detecting the sub in order to set the correct depth it will make the hydro consumable an important tool for the attack phase not just an easymode 'I SEE YOU OUT TO 4KM' button.  

- Subs with hydroacoustic consumable will have full hydro range detect if at same depth level as the sub they detecting. 

 .... This effectively would allow our Cachalot example to travel slowly underwater with minimal detection chances or dive deep and travel at higher speeds but battery power would be consumed (there is no change to battery power consumption based on engine setting as it is good and balanced as it is now). 

 

Torpedo attack mechanics:

This one is simple.

1- The sub has to manually set a running depth for his torpedoes before firing them.

2- Each ship has a different keel depth. Torpedoes hitting the keel deal citadel damage. Those hitting on surface or anywhere but keel just do regular mitigated damage.  

3- Subs can only hit other subs by dumb-firing torpedoes if they set the depth to be the same as enemy sub occupies when torps hit it. Remember, passive sonar updates only once every 10 seconds ...so sub fights will be hair raising. Likewise, since subs only passive detect every 10 seconds it means sub torps coming at them will be seen only every 10 seconds.  

4- Since there are no more homing torps, the sub has to fire the torps using the same lead-aim indicator they have on the surface. Since other ship's position data is available only every 10 seconds it means you only get updated/accurate lead aim indicator every 10 seconds and its valid barely for a second or two. Subs have a hard life!

5- Torps have a specific rate at which they will climb or dive. This means a sub that is 30m underwater firing torps at a surface ship will need to take into account the time it will take the torps to reach that depth... which may be significant. Sub players can use this to their benefit to have torps swim under undesirable targets and hit the desired target instead. 

6- Torpedoes have similar stealth mechanics to submerged subs. I wont list the depth modifiers but the idea is that you could fire a torpedo from very deep and it would be undetectable until it reaches its running depth (lets just say the deepest keel of any ship in the game is the depth torps become detectable by surface ships).  If you know your torps fired from 50m will take 8km to reach the surface..and your target is at 9km... it may be worth taking the shot from that deep rather than surfacing or firing from periscope depth and risk the torp being spotted along the way. 

 

7- I know this will be controversial but I think this is balanced: Sub torp damage should be LOW. If Cachalot now does 8k damage then it should be reduced to 6k per  torp launcher fired (aka 3k dmg per tube, 2 tubes per launcher). 

HOWEVER...

Sub Torps should inflict guaranteed flood damage that is of long duration (40 seconds?). This both enables the victim to have a CHANCE at nullifying the bulk of the torp damage (flood) if their repair is up but will still be taking damage equivalent to a penetrating BB shell. Given subs have so much stealth advantage this is fair and equitable for both sides of the coin. Subs get the bulk of their xp and coin by spotting to begin with.

Since torp attacks will now be much harder due to no homing easymode torps and more dangerous given the need to shoot from much closer range to get hits... it makes the submarine have a unique niche in the team: The king of spotting and the queen of picking targets.. usually the most critical ones to help team out. Aka that radar ship hugging the island permaspotting your DDs and preventing the cap... or the BB hanging in the back slaying your cruisers. 

Damage wise, with the now faster reload speeds for torps, subs are still going to be able to be inflicting nearly a full BB citadel hit worth of damage on targets they hit per forward armament salvo striking. 

 

8- Finally, Subs should NOT count towards victory conditions. Aka subs should not be allowed to cap and subs should not count towards the 'surviving ships' victory condition. This means that if only 1 sub and 1 surface ship are left one team and 1 surface ship left on the enemy team...if the enemy ship takes out the surface ship the game ends with victory for the enemy team. This is to balance out the fact BBS and CVs have no means of detecting nor defeating a sub that remains operating deep. 

  • Cool 5
  • Sad 1
  • Boring 1
  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
804
[MR-1]
Members
1,901 posts
22,741 battles

yes subs were better than expected  . yes a special game mode like the PTS  would be a suitable start introduction and yes would be nice  if we could use the deck guns like they did in the real world  and maybe  1 AA gun . I also have to agree with JAKeller  they will probably  be like the CV's in the techtree  3 or 4 subs . but they would have to do that with all the nations that had subs and not just the USN, German and Russian's . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,167
[DRFTR]
Beta Testers
3,983 posts
13 hours ago, 1598_2016 said:

When ARE subs coming to the main version of the game (Meaning not legends or blitz or ltms)?

 

 

13 hours ago, Ellyh said:

When Wargaming thinks they are ready, it is clear from the tone of the blog that it is still some way off so I assume several months at this stage.

in  9.4 as already stated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
236 posts
7,533 battles
15 hours ago, Skyfaller said:

Look, there is no counterplay. None is needed. Right now destroyers are able to fire torps under stealth and those torps travel the whole way to BBs undetected. A sub firing its torps at 3km and those torps be detected at 1.5km is no different than a DD firing torps at 15km and not having them detected until 1.5km. Do not make up 'counterplay' that is NOT needed and its already a PROVEN fact they are not needed. You will just add another factor you will fail at trying to balance for no reason or benefit. 

 

 

Again, no, this is not the solution. You have just removed the submarine's core feature: its stealth. Unlike a DD a sub has to get very close to its target and its absolutely helpless to destroyer and cruisers depth charging it. It cannot escape and since most cruisers have sonar consumable and several DDs have too, subs have it very difficult as it is. The Public Test vs mostly bots did NOT provide a functional test bed of how a GROUP of players would deal with subs. 

 

 

SONAR PINGS and HOMING TORPS are the REASON why you have the two above issues and more. Sonar pings and homing torps NEED TO BE REMOVED. This the one CONSTANT feedback you have been receiving in the forums since the first round of tests. Its dumb, its gamey and it only pushes players to game the game rather than play the sub. 

If subs dont have ping-homing torpedoes then they become no more dangerous than a DD firing torpedoes. It relies on player skill at firing torps not on a gimmick mechanic that emulates 1960's sub technology. 

If subs dont have homing torps their best chance to get hits is to get CLOSE to a target. Much closer than a destroyer can possibly get and thus MUCH more dangerous and risky it is. 

 

I posted this in another feedback thread and I'll post it here now. Pings/Sonar should be a SCOUTING tool for subs to support the team. It would make them the kings of recon and get bulk of xp and credits via spotting not damage/kills. Torpedo play should be representative of WW2 sub combat not late cold war with magical fairy dust. 

 

Please implement a more balanced, fun and realistic version of sonar and torpedo attacks. Please give submarines a functional role for the team. 

 

Let's start with the sonar/ping mechanics:

Sonar is passive 'listening' or active 'pinging'.

- Passive listening provides info on range, vector, estimated speed and ship type all from listening to the engine noise of ships over a certain period of time. The farther away that ship is the less accurate the info is.  

- Active pinging has the sub emitting a powerful sonar pulse that travels to the target and back, providing accurate and instant information on things that reflected the sonar pulse. Doing this however, reveals the presence and location of the sub to anyone listening.

 

In WoWs, this can be implemented by merely having the subs always be acquiring passive sonar data. IRL sound of ships can be detected by low-profile subs much farther than the subs can visually spot a ship. 

Therefore, subs in WoWs should have underwater detection range as being the longest detection range stat...while their surface VISUAL detection range should be quite short. This CAN BE DONE using existing game mechanics.

 

How? Simple! If we use Cachalot as an example of how to do it:

1- Set the underwater detection range to be 21km but under 'cyclone' visual range reduction set to ZERO permanently. 

2- Set Surface detection range to be 21km BUT the ship would be under 'cyclone' visual range reduction permanently. 

3- When underwater, subs will only update passive sonar detection location of targets on minimap once every 10 seconds. This emulates the sonarman having to listen for a time to triangulate range,speed and bearing. 

4- Subs do not get spotting credit unless they visually spot the target (inside 8km while on surface) or they active target-ping a red ship (see more on this below). 

...and just like that, you have a sub that can detect targets out to 21km when underwater but only shows them to player as minimap contacts. When on surface same sub will share only minimap data to team and will only spot the target visually if inside 8kms. 

 

Now that we have passive detection set, we move to active detection: Ping. Sonar Ping should be implemented as the sub's primary SCOUTING and FLEET ASSIST toolset. It should provide enemy ship location at long range as well as give friendly ships buffs to gun stats when shooting at a target ship. 

1- Subs must point the nose of their ship towards target. The ping will use the same aim-cone width that torps use.  

2- Pings can be emitted on wide cone (the full torpedo cone) or narrow cone (the current little white line used to aim torpedoes). Wide cone ping travels out slowly (80kn?) while narrow cone travels very fast (150kn?). 

3- The ping can travel out to 21km (max spotting range) but is limited to LOS. Aka it cant go through mountains. 

4- Of course, active pings would be available on a medium duration timer to re-use... like, 30 seconds to re-use unlimited uses timer. 

5- A sub emitting an active ping will reveal its location to ALL ships within LOS and 360 degrees, out to max range (21km) on minimap. Remember that the enemy only gets to spot your sub WHEN the ping touches them... this means a sub can ping and relocate behind cover and 30 seconds later when the ping touches a ship at 20km it will only show your minimap info where you emitted the ping from not where your sub is right now. Basically merging the current 'minimap blip' with the minimap's option setting of showing previously detected ship last known locations. 

6- Wide Ping is the 'scouting' ping. It will emit the full-width of cone ping out to those 21kms and any ship it touches will have its location updated on the minimap. Sub will only share minimap data with team if sub is on surface. 

7- Narrow Ping is the 'targeting' ping. It will make the target ship be visible as if visually spotted for 15 seconds. Targeting ping is basically a targeted radar as it ignores smokescreens. Sub only shares this visual spotting data with team if sub is on the surface. For those 15 seconds, sub will receive spotting and credit for any damage dealt to that ship for those 15 seconds. Enemy ships tagged with targeting ping receive a debuff equivalent to the Type5 camo bonuses (aka, it would be +3% detectability by sea and +4% to incoming shell accuracy). 

8- Hostile Subs detected by pings will not be shared as visual spotting data unless said sub was on the surface. Otherwise it will be shown on minimap only. 

...with this system, a sub is now the best scout a fleet can have. It can stealthily approach the enemy fleet while on surface and spot for team plus debuff targets of camo bonuses or it can provide long range detection and minimap info for team even if sub has to reveal itself to. 

 

Sub Detection mechanics:

- Subs should have a simple 'base' detection range stat which is modified by the sound the sub emits and the depth it is at. 

- For example, Cachalot base underwater detection range should be 0.5km. The guaranteed detection range of 2km should not apply to subs. 

- Noise Modifiers:

-- If at full engine setting then +3km detect

-- If at 3/4s then +2km detect.

-- If at 1/2 OR reverse then +1km detect. 

-- If at 1/4th then +0.5km detect. 

-- If at 0 speed then -0.5km detect. 

 

- Depth Modifiers:

-- If at surface, +4km detect to other surface ships. 

--If at 'detection depth' (aka periscope) of 6 to 12m then +2km detect. 

-- If at 'operational depth' of 12 to 30m then +1km detect. 

--If at 'deep' depth of 30 to 50m then -0.5km detect. 

- If at 'crush' depth (50 to 70m) then -2km detect and reduces the range from which active hydroacoustic consumables from other ships will detect this sub by 75%. It will still pick it up but only if directly above it. Since depth charge effectiveness depends on the surface ship detecting the sub in order to set the correct depth it will make the hydro consumable an important tool for the attack phase not just an easymode 'I SEE YOU OUT TO 4KM' button.  

- Subs with hydroacoustic consumable will have full hydro range detect if at same depth level as the sub they detecting. 

 .... This effectively would allow our Cachalot example to travel slowly underwater with minimal detection chances or dive deep and travel at higher speeds but battery power would be consumed (there is no change to battery power consumption based on engine setting as it is good and balanced as it is now). 

 

Torpedo attack mechanics:

This one is simple.

1- The sub has to manually set a running depth for his torpedoes before firing them.

2- Each ship has a different keel depth. Torpedoes hitting the keel deal citadel damage. Those hitting on surface or anywhere but keel just do regular mitigated damage.  

3- Subs can only hit other subs by dumb-firing torpedoes if they set the depth to be the same as enemy sub occupies when torps hit it. Remember, passive sonar updates only once every 10 seconds ...so sub fights will be hair raising. Likewise, since subs only passive detect every 10 seconds it means sub torps coming at them will be seen only every 10 seconds.  

4- Since there are no more homing torps, the sub has to fire the torps using the same lead-aim indicator they have on the surface. Since other ship's position data is available only every 10 seconds it means you only get updated/accurate lead aim indicator every 10 seconds and its valid barely for a second or two. Subs have a hard life!

5- Torps have a specific rate at which they will climb or dive. This means a sub that is 30m underwater firing torps at a surface ship will need to take into account the time it will take the torps to reach that depth... which may be significant. Sub players can use this to their benefit to have torps swim under undesirable targets and hit the desired target instead. 

6- Torpedoes have similar stealth mechanics to submerged subs. I wont list the depth modifiers but the idea is that you could fire a torpedo from very deep and it would be undetectable until it reaches its running depth (lets just say the deepest keel of any ship in the game is the depth torps become detectable by surface ships).  If you know your torps fired from 50m will take 8km to reach the surface..and your target is at 9km... it may be worth taking the shot from that deep rather than surfacing or firing from periscope depth and risk the torp being spotted along the way. 

 

7- I know this will be controversial but I think this is balanced: Sub torp damage should be LOW. If Cachalot now does 8k damage then it should be reduced to 6k per  torp launcher fired (aka 3k dmg per tube, 2 tubes per launcher). 

HOWEVER...

Sub Torps should inflict guaranteed flood damage that is of long duration (40 seconds?). This both enables the victim to have a CHANCE at nullifying the bulk of the torp damage (flood) if their repair is up but will still be taking damage equivalent to a penetrating BB shell. Given subs have so much stealth advantage this is fair and equitable for both sides of the coin. Subs get the bulk of their xp and coin by spotting to begin with.

Since torp attacks will now be much harder due to no homing easymode torps and more dangerous given the need to shoot from much closer range to get hits... it makes the submarine have a unique niche in the team: The king of spotting and the queen of picking targets.. usually the most critical ones to help team out. Aka that radar ship hugging the island permaspotting your DDs and preventing the cap... or the BB hanging in the back slaying your cruisers. 

Damage wise, with the now faster reload speeds for torps, subs are still going to be able to be inflicting nearly a full BB citadel hit worth of damage on targets they hit per forward armament salvo striking. 

 

8- Finally, Subs should NOT count towards victory conditions. Aka subs should not be allowed to cap and subs should not count towards the 'surviving ships' victory condition. This means that if only 1 sub and 1 surface ship are left one team and 1 surface ship left on the enemy team...if the enemy ship takes out the surface ship the game ends with victory for the enemy team. This is to balance out the fact BBS and CVs have no means of detecting nor defeating a sub that remains operating deep. 

I do appreciate all your ideas for the subs. Some of them could, maybe should, be implemented.  The ideas are great, that being said a lot of what you are wanting the subs to be are more of a sub SIMULATOR, not an arcade game. Most of these ideas would be to time consuming/complicated, for the degree of gaming WoWs uses. Dont get me wrong, your ideas are great, just for the lvl of game play WoWs has, or is lacking(however you want to look at it) I just dont think they could be implemented in WoWs. No matter how the subs get implemented though, I'm so excited for them to get added to the full game and not just another mode. I'm ready for something new. I did play the subs in the PTR and think that overall they are pretty good. I do think they need some fine tuning a bit. Leaving them to only be countered by dds is a bit hard for dds as they already have SO much they are suppose to be handling. AKA spotting, torping, countering other dds, capping etc. etc. I think they should add depth charges to ALL light cruisers not just a select few and maybe not give them as many charges as dds that way dds are not the ONLY ones that can deal with subs. Doing this would take some of the load off and make teams feel less helpless against subs if they lose their dds etc. But also not take away that dds would be the primary way to deal with subs. I also understand that while giving DC's to light cruisers is not completely realistic...lets be honest, as previously stated this is more of an arcade game and not geared towards realism. I think this could be one way of making subs more counter-able and allowing teams to more effectively deal with subs. In my opinion of course.

Edited by Lowmein
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
877 posts
6,656 battles
13 hours ago, Gaelic_knight said:

yes subs were better than expected  . yes a special game mode like the PTS  would be a suitable start introduction and yes would be nice  if we could use the deck guns like they did in the real world  and maybe  1 AA gun . I also have to agree with JAKeller  they will probably  be like the CV's in the techtree  3 or 4 subs . but they would have to do that with all the nations that had subs and not just the USN, German and Russian's . 

I'm pretty sure they'll eventually hit all the nation's trees (I mean - it IS WG after all), but they'll likely start with just those 3.  Personally, I would've started with the nations which used subs extensively in their naval operations: US, Germany, and Japan in the first phase, Britain and Italy being phase 2, and finally, France and the Soviets last as those nations didn't use subs as extensively as the others.  (France due to the 1940 surrender.  Soviets due the small size of their fleet; they extended some authority into the Arctic, the Gulf of Finland, and the Black Sea, but those were heavily contested; that's just the reality of the land war thrust upon them)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
12,599 posts
14,320 battles
On 4/28/2020 at 5:02 PM, JAKeller said:

I think WG'll set up subs in a similar manner to CVs - even tiers only.  My guesses:

Tier 4:

  • US - R or S class
  • Russian - Bars class
  • German - UB III class

Tier 8

  • US - Gato class
  • Soviet - K class
  • German - Type IX

Tier 10

  • US - Tench class
  • Soviet - Foxtrot class
  • German - Type XXI

If they do we would likely see the Type VII for tier VI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,167
[DRFTR]
Beta Testers
3,983 posts
54 minutes ago, Aristotle83 said:

Will we be able to acquire subs or are they going to just be available as rentals?

dunno yet... but i don't expect we will see premiums quite yet...  would be good to see them in the tree for 9.4 though

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×